[VS] Formal Debate between Icelerate and Spymoon (Temari VS Neji)
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Analysing the Speed and Power of Temari's Fuuton
The first time Temari showcased her trademark
In Shippuden, during Sasuke's attack on the kage summit, Temari used her weakest jutsu, the
1. Temari wouldn't have used a new technique against Susanoo if it was weaker.
2. Techniques introduced later in the manga will obviously be stronger than techniques introduced earlier on.
3. Okamaitachi>Dai Kamaitachi>Kamaitachi no jutsu because Dai Kamaitachi no jutsu translates to great sickle weasel technique while Kamaitachi no jutsu translates to sickle weasel technique. Obviously great sickle weasel technique will have greater power than regular sickle weasel technique. Okamaitachi no jutsu translates to scythe weasel and scythes are known to be
4. Even the experts that maintain the Naruto Wiki agree with me.
Now this okamaitachi no jutsu is definitely extremely fast considering it was casted at around the same time and reached its target at around the same time as Darui's laser circus, Gaara's sand drizzle and Kankuro's mechanically shot out projectiles. Darui's laser circus is noted to be
When Temari uses
Temari's Speed and Reaction Time
Neji is obviously a faster shinobi than Temari but the point of writing all of Temari's speed and reaction feats is to prove that she won't get blitzed and that she can deal with Neji's superior speed just fine.
First off, during the chunin exams, right after Temari came out of the fight with Tenten. She was acting callously towards Lee and
Temari was casually repelling sound waves as a genin before the sound waves reached her and Shikamaru's positions when those sound waves were right at her face (
In Shippuden, her eyes managed to keep up with the battle between KCM Naruto and the 3rd Raikage. When Naruto throws an FRS at the 3rd Raikage,
Temari's Shunshin
Contrary to popular opinion, Temari has a nice shunshin. In
In summary, after reading all these speed feats, it should become apparent that Neji is not fast enough to escape Temari's line of sight and she can swing her fan before Neji gets close. Do bare in mind that Temari's jutsu execution speed is faster than most elemental jutsu users since they require hand seals, Temari doesn't. Coupled with the fact that she is a long ranged fighter, Neji's chances of getting close are absolute zero.
Rotation's Weakness
Rotation is a powerful defence and I'm not going to argue whether or not Temari can breach it but it does have two key weaknesses. The first weakness is the fact that when the user is stationary, it takes time to start rotating.
Even
Basically Neji was
Completing a full rotation becomes even more difficult when the user is on the move since they first have to stop before initiating the process. For example, when Neji sacrificed himself to save Hinata, he didn't bother rotating or even using vacuum palm because it
Intelligence
The databook gives Temari the edge in intelligence but since it underrates Neji's intelligence, I'd like to prove Temari is far superior to Neji in that regard, by feats. Her fight against Shikamaru displays her superiority in analytical/deduction skills and she has the knowledge advantage in this fight. First off, right after seeing the shadow possession, she deducted that Shikamaru can't change the surface area his shadow covers and that he can use shadows created by other objects to extend his own shadows but that he can't manipulate those external shadows (
Knowledge
Now the thread specifies manga knowledge and Temari has the advantage with regards to having knowledge on Neji whereas Neji doesn't have much knowledge on Temari. From this, Temari knows everything about Neji with the exception of vacuum palm, but that only has a 5 metre range. She's seen Neji's fight with Naruto so she's analysed rotation, Neji's Byakugan insight and his taijutsu prowess, all of which were shown in his fight against Naruto. Even though she hasn't seen the vacuum palm used by Neji, she's seen it being used by
The first time Temari showcased her trademark
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, the weakest jutsu in her arsenal, Shikamaru managed to dodge it effortlessly despite the fact he was very close to Temari. The
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used during the chuunin exams is very weak as it could barely scratch a tree. Kamaitachi no jutsu's databook entry ranks this as a C ranked jutsu which is important to keep in mind for later on and its max range is only 10 meters. Later on during the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, Temari acquired the Dai kamaitachi no jutsu (
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)(
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). This jutsu is exponentially stronger than the previous kamaitachi no jutsu as it was strong enough to mow down around six whole trees completely whereas the weaker kamaitachi no jutsu barely scratched a single tree. The databook entry below shows that the dai kamaitachi no jutsu is a B ranked jutsu and can be used at all ranges unlike the previous kamaitachi no jutsu which can only be used at a maximum range of 10 metres. Also note how the distance between Tayuya and Temari was greater than the distance between
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(when he dodged it during the chunin exams). Just by looking at Tayuya's expression, you can see she barely avoided it despite the fact that her speed and defences were enhanced by the cursed seal. Not to mention there were trees in between them so the intensity and the speed of the attack was slowed down. All in all, it just goes to show that the stronger Temari's jutsus are, the faster they travel. In Shippuden, during Sasuke's attack on the kage summit, Temari used her weakest jutsu, the
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to slice apart
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from the samurai and she sliced it into pieces while managing not to scratch the the samurai himself. As mentioned previously. back in part one, this same jutsu could barely scratch a tree but now it was slicing through metal. Due to metal being much more durable than wood, it goes to show that all of Temari's part one jutsus have become much stronger. This also means much faster because attacks that are stronger are also faster. She then goes on to use a
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, called
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, which doesn't have a databook entry but it is logically even stronger than Temari's
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. The reason why I say that Okamaitachi no jutsu is on a whole other level compared to Dai Kamaitachi no jutsu, which was already on a whole other level compared to Temari's Kamaitachi no jutsu, is because of these following reasons. 1. Temari wouldn't have used a new technique against Susanoo if it was weaker.
2. Techniques introduced later in the manga will obviously be stronger than techniques introduced earlier on.
3. Okamaitachi>Dai Kamaitachi>Kamaitachi no jutsu because Dai Kamaitachi no jutsu translates to great sickle weasel technique while Kamaitachi no jutsu translates to sickle weasel technique. Obviously great sickle weasel technique will have greater power than regular sickle weasel technique. Okamaitachi no jutsu translates to scythe weasel and scythes are known to be
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so it is in its own league.4. Even the experts that maintain the Naruto Wiki agree with me.
Now this okamaitachi no jutsu is definitely extremely fast considering it was casted at around the same time and reached its target at around the same time as Darui's laser circus, Gaara's sand drizzle and Kankuro's mechanically shot out projectiles. Darui's laser circus is noted to be
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by none other than the legendary Ginkaku. The
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and left
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in a deathlike state so they are definitely fast shinobi. As for Gaara's sand, his
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so Temari's fuuton being as fast as an attack from current Gaara's gourd sand is definitely a speed feat for Temari's okamaitachi no jutsu.When Temari uses
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, she propels Kamatari with a gust of wind from her own fan which Kamatari uses to travel around the battlefield. Temari rubs blood on her fan. Then she swings her fan and out comes
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, the weasel that decimates everything that comes close to it. This creature is clearly visible when Temari first summons it but once it starts moving,you can no longer see it in any other panels. This is because, as the
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says, once it starts moving, Kamatari can not be seen by the unaided eye. Considering Kamatari is the medium through which this attack travels, it means this attack is very fast which is proven by the fact that it managed to cover a distance spanning several hundreds of meters in a very small amount of time. Since the weasel rides the wind Temari produces with her own fan, as shown in the databook entry of Kiri Kiri Mae, it means that Temari's fuuton are very fast and cover great range.Temari's Speed and Reaction Time
Neji is obviously a faster shinobi than Temari but the point of writing all of Temari's speed and reaction feats is to prove that she won't get blitzed and that she can deal with Neji's superior speed just fine.
First off, during the chunin exams, right after Temari came out of the fight with Tenten. She was acting callously towards Lee and
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him to attack but she still managed to react and
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. Notice that Lee was only a few meters away from Temari and that Temari had just come out of the battle not expecting Lee to attack. This same Lee was fast enough to save Tenten in a split second (
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). That same weighted Lee earlier on was
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to keep up with . That same Sasuke blitzed Haku, whom Zabuza, a shinobi on part one Kakashi's level of speed
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, in and of itself. By power scaling, since current Temari is much faster than chuunin exams Temari, it can be concluded that Temari can react to Shippuden weighted Lee just fine. Shippuden weighted Lee managed to intercept Haku who was using his ice crystal mirror transportation technique alongside Gai, who is
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himself. Temari was casually repelling sound waves as a genin before the sound waves reached her and Shikamaru's positions when those sound waves were right at her face (
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). In Shippuden, her eyes managed to keep up with the battle between KCM Naruto and the 3rd Raikage. When Naruto throws an FRS at the 3rd Raikage,
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it and Temari notices what is happening just fine. She also
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that Naruto was aiming to catch that same FRS he had previously thrown and use that to hit the 3rd Raikage from behind (
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). She noticed what Naruto was aiming to do from the very start before Naruto even managed to complete his strategy. Also later on Temari hears out the situation from a random no named shinobi who tells her the situation, she then immediately gives him orders. Right afterwards, she sees Naruto and Dodai about to get blitzed by the Sandaime Raikage and warns them before they even realize what is happening (
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)(
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). Temari's Shunshin
Contrary to popular opinion, Temari has a nice shunshin. In
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, Temari just arrives alongside Shikamaru and Chouji. The way she is just crouched and not standing upright just shows that she just arrived a split second ago to that position. On the next page (
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) , the Juubi waves its tail and produces a massive shockwave. Then on
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, Temari happens to be standing at the very back on top of a
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, far from her previous position which is near the front . She does all of this while the Juubi first prepares the attack and she manages to reach the other wind style users while still having the time to help cast Fuuton Kazekiri. In summary, after reading all these speed feats, it should become apparent that Neji is not fast enough to escape Temari's line of sight and she can swing her fan before Neji gets close. Do bare in mind that Temari's jutsu execution speed is faster than most elemental jutsu users since they require hand seals, Temari doesn't. Coupled with the fact that she is a long ranged fighter, Neji's chances of getting close are absolute zero.
Rotation's Weakness
Rotation is a powerful defence and I'm not going to argue whether or not Temari can breach it but it does have two key weaknesses. The first weakness is the fact that when the user is stationary, it takes time to start rotating.
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: Naruto managed to land a punch on Neji before he started spinning but the chakra emitting from Neji's skin managed to block Naruto's weak punch. Temari's fuuton attacks are incredibly fast and thus they'll manage to reach Neji before he can start spinning. Without the momentum from Neji's spin, Temari's wind will slice through the chakra surrounding Neji's body because majority of rotation's defence comes from the torque from the rotation which pushes out and repels attacks continuously as attacks try but inevitably fail to get through this powerful deflective force. This is because the speed at which the user rotates is immense and can change the trajectory of focussed precision based attacks. However since Temari's fuuton travel at a higher speed than base Naruto, they can attack Neji before he starts spinning. Basically
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that rotation is a two part process and my premise is that the first part of the rotation won't be a strong enough defence against Temari's fuuton. Another weakness of rotation is that the user is stationary and can't go on the offensive while using it. Thus the user has to end the rotation
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which gives Temari the opportunity to finish Neji off with her superior range before Neji can get in range. Even
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that rotation's weakness is high speed attacks. Unlike Lee, Temari isn't going to physically go up against the rotation, she won't take any backlash damage by charging through it. Instead she'll attack from a distance which allows her to accomplish the task of killing Neji before he can fully rotate. Her wind style not being faster than gated Lee doesn't mean it won't be fast enough to accomplish the job for the reasons that Lee actually has to physically go up against rotation which would slow Lee down due to contact friction.Basically Neji was
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against Naruto hence he wasn't able to dispel the force from Naruto's punch completely which is why he
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.Completing a full rotation becomes even more difficult when the user is on the move since they first have to stop before initiating the process. For example, when Neji sacrificed himself to save Hinata, he didn't bother rotating or even using vacuum palm because it
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. This means that if Neji tries to charge his way towards Temari, he is dead meat because not only is he travelling towards Temari, Temari's attack is travelling towards him as well so relative to Neji, Temari's attack will be travelling towards him at a higher speed while the distance between the attack and Neji will be decreasing rapidly.Intelligence
The databook gives Temari the edge in intelligence but since it underrates Neji's intelligence, I'd like to prove Temari is far superior to Neji in that regard, by feats. Her fight against Shikamaru displays her superiority in analytical/deduction skills and she has the knowledge advantage in this fight. First off, right after seeing the shadow possession, she deducted that Shikamaru can't change the surface area his shadow covers and that he can use shadows created by other objects to extend his own shadows but that he can't manipulate those external shadows (
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). One thing to note, while
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Shikamaru, she was able to notice that the
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. The fight at this point only lasted a few minutes so her being able to notice such slight differences is a superior analytical feat compared to even Neji, who has the advantage of 360 degree vision. Also Temari's mathematical skills surpass even those of prodigious astronomers, mathematicians, physicists and engineers. She managed to accurately measure the distance between her and Shikamaru, to the nearest centimetre, without actually measuring it (
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). Later on, she somehow managed to measure the angle the sun had travelled through the sky and managed to measure how long Shikamaru's shadow can extend using the knowledge of the limits of Shikamaru's shadows previously and the change in position of the Sun (
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). It is quite perplexing for her to be able to do all these calculations inside her head in the heat of battle without having to use a calculator or paper to do so. In other words, she is both a human ruler and calculator. As a matter of fact, I don't recall anyone in this manga, or in real life, having such great mathematical skills. Although, I might be wrong about this so show me an example that exceeds this.Knowledge
Now the thread specifies manga knowledge and Temari has the advantage with regards to having knowledge on Neji whereas Neji doesn't have much knowledge on Temari. From this, Temari knows everything about Neji with the exception of vacuum palm, but that only has a 5 metre range. She's seen Neji's fight with Naruto so she's analysed rotation, Neji's Byakugan insight and his taijutsu prowess, all of which were shown in his fight against Naruto. Even though she hasn't seen the vacuum palm used by Neji, she's seen it being used by
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. On the other hand, Neji's knowledge on Temari is rather weak as all he knows about her are her relatively weak and slow fuuton she displayed in her fight with Shikamaru. Remembering how weak Temari was, he may underestimate her and get killed. However, Neji has changed and I doubt he is a fool who will charge in and get killed. On the other hand, Temari is a sneaky one. She ridiculed Lee, calling him pathetic. In reality, she thought
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. She could taunt Neji and make him angry. As the fight goes on, Neji will get desperate and charge his way to Temari but as I explained previously, that will be the end of Neji.
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Indeed. temari's jutsu's have gotten stronger from the chuninn exam if compared to the sasuke retrieval arc. however,That speed is still nothing infront of neji. the distance between temari and tayuya in the scan you mention above is
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roughly 10 meters. Even though tayuya was
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she still managed to dodge the attack from such distance. Even though the radius of the attack is pretty big she still managed
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she showed the exclamation mark since she didn't expect an attack of this magnitude but still managed to evade it.In addition, tayuya already got hit hit with the shadow bending technique by shikamaru behind her back
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so we can also say that she also had to pay attention to her back aswell. Neji who is a taijutsu master should have no problem evading an attack like this especially since he doesn't use any weapons he won't remove his byakugan from the opponents sight and doesn't have any other distractions.This jutsu is indeed faster than the one casted on tayuya in SRA. However, against neji it is still of no benefit. firstly, Let us take a look at where temari and co. where standing when they launched the attack.
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approximately 15 meters from sasuke. yet sasuke who was almost out of chakra, fought against A and has one eye closed still managed to react to it. Neji who has a byakugan which allows him to immediately spot five tags each on a different direction and one of them being 800m from him almost immediately spotted them all. Neji shouldn't have a problem reacting to it in time. You re severly underestimating neji's rotation speed. look at the kunai's position in the bottom left panel
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neji as seen with an exclamation mark were surprised by them yet
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he was able to react to them all without a scratch. May i add this was neji with the 50m byakugan not the 800m one. Nonetheless, to make sure i have completely covered this point i will show you why it'll never hit someone like neji. Let us look at his condition first,
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,
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,
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,
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now with all these injuries in mind, and seeing the distance the arrow had to go to reach neji we can see that kidomaru was roughly 100 meters away from neji. Yet, after neji inserted chakra into kido's system, kido immediately fell to the ground. neji managed to cover all this distance with his heavy injuries and reached kido before he touched the ground
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,
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with this speed feet, neji won't get hit by any of temari's attacks.this attack indeed has a very huge magnitude of effect. However, it only managed to damage wood. Rotation can easily counter an attack like this and I'll explain why. kakashi said that kakuzu's elements have mastered their respective elements. all lightning,wind and fire
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and they have shown to have a very large magnitude
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that even the databook says that they represent ''natural disasters'' yet a simple raiton from kakashi was able to counterbalance kakuzu's lightning mask
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by this example, we get the conclusion that attacks with large AoE can be countered by attacks that are concentrated on a very smaller scale ex- neji's rotation. Neji(after his defeat by naruto) stopped underestimating his opponents. Once he see's temari using a summon he should quiclky use rotation to tank it. May i add that if we attack rasengan into account, pure chakra is stronger than chakra mixed with elemental affinities but harder to control. Seen as how a rasengan was demonstrated many times to be stronger than a chidori of the same magnitude. Neji while rotating expels pure chakra from his body while as temari uses chakra with wind affility. I see no reason why chakra poured from every chakra pore from his body won't manage to stop a wind attack. Especially as Sasuke's susanoo(which is chakra in a hardened form) managed to defend him against danzo's fuuton very easily.Nothing to counter here. However, I'd like to add that neji's 64 palm range is about 5-10 metres as seen
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Lee with weights is a fairly fast shinobi but him never defeating neji once should give us an example in this regard. Especially considering that neji is already used to his speed that in his fight against gaara he should absolutely no surprise (pre-weight removal) the second half of your post is about her noticing the fight. While indeed not a bad feet shouldn't be put into account here seen as lee has already proved that just because you can see an attack doesn't mean you can counter it against sasuke with a sharingan.Impressive shunshin feet however, Against neji's speed (example mentioned above) that won't help her. A near death neji was able to close a roughly 100m distance before kido touching the ground. keep in mind that he moved after kido started falling on the ground.
Good points. But i believe you are severly underrating neji's rotation speed. the neji you gave an example of is chunin exam neji and part 2 jounin is bound to improve over him. First example is
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the kunai's are just behind him yet he managed to rotate before any reaching him. Unlike this fight where he can give his full concentration to temari, in the example above neji didn't notice the kunai's until they were in the shown position. If he indeed cannot rotate in time for the attack then he can just emit chakra from a certain place as seen
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and
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. the second example is against naruto. let us look at the distance between him and two naruto clones
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roughly no distance at all yet he still managed to emit chakra in time to tank their punches completely.temari is indeed a very smart individual. However, neji is not to be underestimated. Neji found out that kido had found the secret of the byakugan
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after that he started moving his neck continuously in order to not allow kido to take a clear shot of his blind spot
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I am afraid you are mistaken. In his fight against kidomaru even though he was at the brink of death he continuously kept thinking of a way to defeat kidomaru. something very few in his place would have done. Even though he knew that he couldn't possibly dodge kido's next arrow he kept perfectly calm and waited for a chance to counterattack which resulted in his win.
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In my previous post, I talked about this technique to showcase that the Dai kamaitachi no jutsu, which is stronger than kamaitachi no jutsu, is also a faster technique. Of course, this technique can be easily dodged by Neji, I was just pointing out the large increase in speed compared to the technique Temari used against Shikamaru during the Chuunin exams. This was all to show the progression in both speed and power which all occurred in a short span of time.
Sasuke wasn't almost out of chakra at that point in time and his reactions were still pretty good considering after his battle with Gaara, Kankuro, Temari and Darui, he managed to escape to the actual Kage summit room where he easily
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despite there being many people in that same room. Mifune is actually very fast as he can stop a legendary shinobi such as Hanzo from weaving hand seals. The distance between Hanzo and Mifune was around
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which Mifune covered before Hanzo could performs hand seals and forced Hanzo to
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. As for Sasuke putting up a stronger version of Susanoo, you do realize that activating susanoo is very fast as the user doesn't even have to move to do so. This differs from rotation where Neji actually has to physically move his body to rotate. Furthermore, he was already using a weaker version of susanoo and thought he'd need a stronger version to defend against this barrage of attacks which goes to show that these attacks pack a lot of punch. Considering all Gaara did was throw some sand bullets and Kankuro threw some paper tag explosives, I suspect that Darui and Temari had the strongest attacks of the four and were the biggest threats to Sasuke's previous ribcage susanoo. The reason why I say this is because Gaara needs a large amount of sand to do meaningful damage and even with a large amount of sand, he couldn't do much to Kimimaro whose durability pales in comparison even to ribcage susanoo. As for Kankuro's explosive tags, explosive tags in general don't yield much damage unlike raiton and fuuton. In other words, Temari's okamaitachi no jutsu will kill Neji if Neji is not rotating and a small cloak of chakra before he begins rotating isn't going to be strong enough to protect himself.Okay so you're saying that Neji will start rotating before Temari's jutsu hits him. Well this is wrong since like you said, Kidomaru was 50 meters away from Neji and some of his web projectiles
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. Neji was able to put up a chakra cloak to stop the attack but since Temari's fuuton have far superior cutting and penetrative ability, a mere cloak of chakra without the spin from rotation isn't stopping her attack. Not to mention the distance between Temari and Neji is only 20 metres, so Temari's attacks are not only faster than Kidomaru's but she is closer to Neji as well which means there is less time for Neji to react. As for Neji's speed feat against Kidomaru, first off the distance between them was
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, not 100 meters. Secondly, Kidomaru was falling towards the ground and couldn't fight due to taking damage from gentle fist. He was
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and I'd say at the very least 10 metres above ground level. Since he started from rest and assuming that the acceleration caused by gravity is 9.8 m/s^2 just like it is in the real world, it would mean it took him distance = 0.5*acceleration*time^2which can be solved for time. 10 m = 0.5*9.8m/s^2*t^2
2.04 = t^2
t = 1.4 seconds
Neji's speed = distance covered by Neji/time interval it took him
Neji's speed = 50 m/1.4 seconds
Neji's speed =36 m/s
All in all considering this was part one Neji who was gravely wounded, this is a nice speed feat but I'll explain why he won't be able to dodge Temari's attacks. First off if he runs towards Temari, he is just making it easier for Temari to hit him since he will be running right into Temari's attack. Secondly, if he tries running sideways kind of
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to dodge amaterasu, he could momentarirly evade Temari's fuuton if she attack him directly but then she'd realize that she could simply aim right infront of Neji so when the wind currents reach Neji, he'd run right into them.Well I'll agree that if Neji manages to rotate in time, he can defend himself from Kiri Kiri Mae. My point of bringing that jutsu wasn't its power, but the speed at which Temari whips up the tempest which crosses hundreds of meters in around a second. The starting distance is only 20 metres which means an attack of this level of speed will definitely catch Neji off guard before he manages to rotate. Even still, Temari doesn't need to summon her weasel here because in the last part of that post you quoted, I said it is Temari's fuuton that propels the weasel to that level of speed so Temari's fuuton without Kamatari is what causes Kamatari to travel fast. In other words, Temari does not need a weasel for her fuuton to be fast enough to reach Neji before he rotates. Also I disagree with pure chakra being stronger than wind elemental chakra. When comparing Naruto's rasengan with Sasuke's chidori, your example is way off because the damage rasengan did was greater than chidori because rasengan is a blunt destructive type of attack whereas chidori is a piercing attack. It had nothing to do with pure chakra being stronger than elemental chakra which goes against the
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and databook. The
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says that adding a chakra nature to an attack increases its strength hence why Fuuton Rasenshuriken is much stronger than the non natured rasengan.
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that wind chakra nature is stronger when it comes to cutting than regular chakra. As for Sasuke using susanoo to block Danzo's fuuton. Well the chakra of susanoo is much more dense and durable than the chakra emitted from Neji's body. Sasuke managed to survive Ay's
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due to protection from
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whereas
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from a
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. Clearly ribcage susanoo>>>>>>Neji's Chakra. Also cutting based attacks are more lethal compared to blunt trauma which is clearly shown when
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and
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but Kakashi got up just fine and fought as if nothing happened. The scan you posted was a scan of Neji using rotation, not eight trigrams 64 palms which Neji has to get within arms length to use against Temari, but unfortunately for him, Temari won't let him get this close. Of course Lee couldn't beat Neji, not because of Neji's speed but of various other factors such as Byakugan insight, rotation and Neji's hand speed. It doesn't change the fact that Temari herself can keep up with Neji's speed just fine. As for Temari visually keeping up with V1 3rd Raikage and the KCM clone, I posted it to show you that even when a fight is fast paced, Temari can keep track of their movements and be able to realize what is going on, hence her mental reactions are also quite fast. Obviously, like pre Chuunin exams Sasuke, her body won't be able to keep up with this level of speed but Temari has a different fighting style compared to Sasuke. Sasuke has to get near his opponent to strike them but since he was pretty slow at that point, he'd get crushed by anyone with decent speed and good taijutsu. On the other hand, Temari isn't going to have physically outmaneuver her opponents, all she has to do is move her fan to attack whereas her opponent has to physically move all the way to Temari's position. Considering Neji can't escape Temari's line of sight and all Temari has to do is move her fan a small distance, she doesn't need to physically keep up with fast shinobi.
Yeah Temari can't outrun Neji if Neji decides to charge at her head on but if he does that then what I previously posted (which I'll post again below in italics) should show you that Neji doing this is suicide and gives Temari the victory.
Completing a full rotation becomes even more difficult when the user is on the move since they first have to stop before initiating the process. For example, when Neji sacrificed himself to save Hinata, he didn't bother rotating or even using vacuum palm because it
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. This means that if Neji tries to charge his way towards Temari, he is dead meat because not only is he travelling towards Temari, Temari's attack is travelling towards him as well so relative to Neji, Temari's attack will be travelling towards him at a higher speed while the distance between the attack and Neji will be decreasing rapidly.All the while, Temari could still create a larger distance between her and Neji if need be while Neji is struggling at defending against or avoiding Temari's attacks, if he even can.
As for your claim that Neji can start rotation before Temari's attack reach him, you are still confused between Neji emitting chakra to block an attack, that itself is not rotation. Rotation is when Neji starts spinning after he has released the chakra and has it surround his body. In both your examples, Neji first stops the attack before being able to spin (
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)(
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). If he can't spin before Temari's attack reaches him, Neji doesn't have the necessary torque from his spin to repel Temari's fuuton. Without that torque, all that remains is a thin layer of chakra which can be cut effortlessly unless up against a kunai or a sword not enhanced by any chakra enhancements. Of course Neji is pretty smart too, my point was that Temari would find her way of winning against Neji in a similar fashion to how Kidomaru did but her way of defeating Neji would be different since she has a different arsenal compared to Kidomaru. Unlike against Kidomaru where Neji
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through Kidomaru's web, Neji can't do anything like this against Temari for obvious reasons. He simply does not have the means to defeat Temari.
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Alright.
Sasuke was extremely tired. He used Amaterasu
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, enton thrice
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and used susanoo for a considerable period of time. His vision is ought to have been very bad. About danzo, hanzo needed to stop his hand seals and then pull his scythe which will take more time than simply picking your sword as what sasuke did. We can't really judge which attack was stronger than the other. Gaara's sand bullets were able to pierce through SM madara's skin and immobilize him. Sasuke wouldn't have been any different. Temari's wind doesn't explode. it was darui's and kankuro's attacks that exploded.You are mistaken here. The kunai's were traps set by kido directly above neji not 50m from him.
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he had less time to react. Another important factor you are forgetting is the element of surprise. As seen here by the exclamation mark
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he didn't see the kunai's until they were directly behind him. About 2-3 meters judging from the bottom left panel. Yet he managed to release chakra before the kunai's that were directly behind his back
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hit him. Part 2 neji with a radius of atleast 800m wont be surpised by the attack and will manage to act accordingly. . I am aware that rotation is different from releasing chakra. However, if we note the distance above, neji should be more than capable of rotating to an attack of a 20m distance from him. Part 2 neji with a radius of atleast 800m wont be surpised by the attack and will manage to act accordingly. As per your calculations, It requires a gravely wounded neji part 1 neji about 0.6 seconds to reach temari. Obviously a healthy part 2 neji would be faster. If we say it takes neji roughly 0.4 seconds to reach temari from the starting distance what proof do you have that she will be able to notice him and defend herself? You did post some interesting feats but none are fast to this extent. Mind you that neji needs to only be near her by 5 metres to perform gentle fist as seen
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that furthers reduces the time to about 0.3 seconds needed for neji to reach the required distance. Temari won't be able to react in time.We have no proof that she doesn't need to summon for her jutsu to be the fast. On the contrary,
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Temari hits tayuya head on with her jutsu yet temari is not even scratched
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when temari used her summon a large portion of the forest was cut down and tayuya was sliced in half. The power difference is HUGE we can conclude here that temari cannot cut this magnitude of the forest without her summon otherwise she wouldn't have had any need in summoning it. well you have a point regarding the rasengan and the chidori. But neji has another trump card. As seen
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hiashi was able to push a juubi hand a very considerable distance away using air palm. Neji being a jounin and a hyugga prodigy, being able to perform 64 palms when he was a chunnin and learing how to perform rotation only by observation should be atleast slightly weaker than hiashi. We can say the distance was roughly 15 meters between him and the juubi hand and he managed to push it roughly 20 meters. If for any reason, neji is unable to spin in time he can change the direction of the attack using air palm which as seen will be more than capable of deflecting the attack from him.I am afraid there is a misunderstanding.
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is the distance between them. Neji then says ''it is over you are within the field of my palms''
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the distance neji requires for 64 palms is roughly 5-10 meters. The last half of your post i countered using neji's speed feat.Alright. I have to agree that he may not be able to rotate in time if he was running towards temari, Sadly however, Temari has no counters for air palm. Neji being fully aware of the byakugan and his fighting style weak
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is ought to know that he can't use rotation while mobile and will result in using air palm instead. Sadly, temari has no counters for a direct air palm that as mentioned above has a range of about 20 metres. Neji (as calculated) needs only 0.3 seconds to place temari within his air palms range. IF by any chance temari manages to react in less than the time mentioned above then by using air palm he can simply neutralize temari's attack.[/quote]Of course Neji is pretty smart too, my point was that Temari would find her way of winning against Neji in a similar fashion to how Kidomaru did but her way of defeating Neji would be different since she has a different arsenal compared to Kidomaru. Unlike against Kidomaru where Neji
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through Kidomaru's web, Neji can't do anything like this against Temari for obvious reasons. He simply does not have the means to defeat Temari.[/QUOTE]
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May I ask, did you read this debate? If so do you want to judge? Once this debate is over, I'd like to know what disappointed you in this particular debate.
You mean the two of us? That was a long time ago and I've thought of some new arguments. Plus recently there was a Neji VS Temari thread where people said Neji mid diffs so I decided I'd challenge Spymoon to a debate since he told me that I was one of the oldtimers he wanted to challenge and he himself backed Neji in that thread.
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fastrthnwind
Active member
Sasuke didn't look extremely tired back then. Nonetheless, Itachi who was extremely tired and sick, more so than the Sasuke at the kage summit arc,
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to block Kirin at the last moment. All it takes is a mental thought unlike rotation where the user has to rotate. Sasuke's vision only started to deteriorate to a considerable degree by the end of the kage summit arc after his fight with Danzo. Gaara's sand bullets managed to pierce through SM Madara's skin due to help from
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from Shukaku so that just gives Temari more credit in terms of damage. Temari's wind doesn't explode but it is better at slicing and piercing compared to the attacks of any of the other attackers who attacked susanoo.Part two Neji having a higher ocular radius wouldn't matter if what you are saying about the trap being directly above Neji is true since no matter how large the radius of the Byakugan, it would still be able to see the attack coming when it is launched since the added range of the Byakugan won't help when the enemy/attack is nearby. Why exactly could Neji not see the kunais until they were directly behind him when part one Neji's Byakugan had a range of 50 m? Also that kunai trap that
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was just one kunai, but the
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that came immediately afterwards were shot at Neji from a distance by Kidomaru. Although I'll agree with you that Neji can rotate in time but I'm sure that eventually he won't be able to rotate fast enough at a certain time in the battle considering this battle isn't going to be short in any case.Okay say Neji needs 0.3 seconds to reach Temari. Well
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away from Temari when
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. Temari then managed to swing her fan and
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before the sound waves reached her position. Now take a good look at Temari's posture before and after she executes her jutsu (
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). The sound waves were right in her face and her fan was wide open but a split second later, she managed to swing the fan and turn her arms and fan sideways. So assuming the distance between Tayuya and Temari was 10 metres, we know that sound travels at
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so it would take only time=distance/velocity=10 m/340 m/s = 0.03 seconds for Temari to react to Neji's blitz. Pretty sure she can swing her fan fast enough to prevent Neji from getting close based on these feats from part one. Of course I've already did an indepth review of her part two speed and reaction feats which you may want to look over. Also bare in mind that fights between two shinobi of equal stature rarely end in a blitz so as long as Temari can prevent Neji from coming close, this fight will go to her.Obviously Temari needs her summon to cut down a large magnitude of forest but my point was that it is in fact Temari's own fuuton that propels Kamatari which initiates KKM, which is a
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, therefore we can conclude that the fuuton coming from Temari's fan is also very fast, maybe not super fast but still very fast. It's been shown that Neji has trouble against speedy ranged attacks, look at
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for reference. As for linking me to Hiashi's feat, since Hiashi is superior to Neji, his feat can't be given to Neji but we've seen how powerful Neji's vacuum palms are and I'm sure they are going to kill Temari if they hit her but Neji's range is closer to Hinata's then compared to Hiashi (
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). The other time we saw Neji use vacuum palm was
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who was only 5 m away from Neji and I doubt Neji improved enough for this technique's range when done by Neji to surpass 10 m. Even still, Temari can simply hop on top of trees such as the one she was standing on thus making it harder for Neji to reach Temari. He'll also have to hop on to that particular tree to get close to Temari but he can't rotate or dodge in midair so he gets killed if he attempts to do this. Furthermore, if Neji decides to hop on to a tree top much like Temari, Temari can then simply cut it down and blow it away putting Neji in a bad situation.When using vacuum palm, the user has to adjust their arms accordingly which means they can't rotate while attacking. Finally, vacuum palm may be a good defence against projectiles but Temari's fuuton have much greater area of effect than vacuum palm so vacuum palm isn't saving Neji from getting killed by Temari's fuuton. In other words, vacuum palm isn't a 360 degree defence but a pinpoint defence that can only protect a small part of Neji.
The reason it was over for Naruto was because he had already taken damage
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and was in a sitting position (
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). Also take a good look at the end of the latter scan. Neji has to initiate some weird body posture before attacking with 8 trigrams 64 palms. I've already pretty much countered everything you just posted up above...
If all else fails and Temari can't defeat Neji then she has one final trump card.
Anyway since you brought up speculations regarding Hiashi's vacuum palm and giving its feats to Neji, consider the following: Temari in part one managed to use KKM
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. In Shippuden,
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, Temari contemplated using
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against the 3rd Raikage before Naruto showed up. As a last resort if all else fails, Temari can simply use KKM over and over again, in a short interval of time, which will no doubt slice through kaiten because part one KKM's magnitude of power was a forest buster and currently, it should be much much greater through power scaling which increased the strength and speed of Temari's fuuton from part one by a considerable amount. Like I posted previously, if Neji
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enough against spikes coming from the Juubi, he won't be able to spin fast enough to defend against a continuous barrage of Kiri Kiri mae which is an even faster attack than those projectiles. You want proof KKM is a faster attack? Well consider this, once
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starts moving, the weasel Temari summons, it can no longer be seen by the unaided eye, whereas these Juubi sticks can.
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TheEvilOne
Active member
There are only a very few guys who can beat Ice in a debate and this new one isn't one of them. Temari wins the battle and Ice should win the debate.
Rufus ShinRa
Active member
Icelerate have better arguments and of course Temari wins this match..........
However my personal opinion is Temari easily.He wouldn't even get near.All Temari has to do is fanning.Neji would probably defend himself all the time.Maybe if she lets him take the first step...
Taijutsu users has got few chances to beat her......
However my personal opinion is Temari easily.He wouldn't even get near.All Temari has to do is fanning.Neji would probably defend himself all the time.Maybe if she lets him take the first step...
Taijutsu users has got few chances to beat her......
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