This is another guy either making stuff up or not comprehensive of what he reads. Iruka says hiruzen was the strongest and hiruzen says don't use past tense n hiruzen is more reliable then anyone. Now the anbu say that the senju bros were(past tense) hailed as the best shinobi not strongest.
wow finally someone who knows how to read lets see if i remember Iruka said it The 3rd said it himself kabuto also said he wasn't the strongest kage "could mean antying" orochimaru also said if he was only 10 years younger things might have been different
so thats 3 kage lvl ninjas saying that, and Iruka i still say thats a pretty good list of people and like most people say prime hiruzen was the strongest we arn't claiming that old hiruzen is the strongest
That's pretty much sums it up. Kishimoto leaves his story to be interpreted by his fans. Which is why there is so much different view points. Only Kishimoto can tell what's truly going on in a story. We are just in for a ride.
That's pretty much sums it up. Kishimoto leaves his story to be interpreted by his fans. Which is why there is so much different view points. Only Kishimoto can tell what's truly going on in a story. We are just in for a ride.
and thats why he has the data books in which it says the 3rd is the strongest so untill he comes up with a new one or flat out states it in the manga we have to conclude that the 3rd is the strongest
Honestly, I think the manga release schedule has made it so that it's almost impossible for him to draft a chapter, cross-reference it with things he said practically 10 years ago, and finalize the chapter within the allotted time frame. Add into it that some errors are not just going to be "I need to change this word-bubble" - but the realization that half of the chapter he just drafted is in conflict with something someone stated in a single panel back in the 30th chapter of Part I.
Ultimately - he has a decision to make... publish with the conflict (if he realizes it) - or try to reconfigure the scene to be correct. In the end - he's more likely to just go with the conflict.
Some of the little contradictions may actually be part of his genius - people realize it and talk about it amongst each other. Keeps the fan base chattering and interested even when the plot is going through a lull in activity. Though some of them, lately, are starting to push the limits of what's reasonable in a professional production.
This is another guy either making stuff up or not comprehensive of what he reads. Iruka says hiruzen was the strongest and hiruzen says don't use past tense n hiruzen is more reliable then anyone. Now the anbu say that the senju bros were(past tense) hailed as the best shinobi not strongest.
"They are the hokage sama who are hailed as being the best shinobi..."
Iruka
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"The third was said to be..."
Sandaime even remarks on Iruka's use of past-tense.
You think Iruka of all people to be credible? The only difference between him and fodder is that we know his name. Also, put into perspective that Sarutobi was right there next to him when he said it, and Sarutobi comforted him when his parents died. That's obviously more biased than factual.
Madara even claimed that his battle with Hashirama leveled the battle field... Hiruzen has demonstrated naught that would cause for a map to be redrawn...
wow finally someone who knows how to read lets see if i remember Iruka said it The 3rd said it himself kabuto also said he wasn't the strongest kage "could mean antying" orochimaru also said if he was only 10 years younger things might have been different
so thats 3 kage lvl ninjas saying that, and Iruka i still say thats a pretty good list of people and like most people say prime hiruzen was the strongest we arn't claiming that old hiruzen is the strongest
What? No, neither of those people state Hiruzen to be the strongest save for Iruka. Orochimaru saying things would have been different if Hiruzen was younger is common sense, it doesn't apply that he was the strongest. Logic tells us, if things would have been so drastic, Orochimaru would have been saying another statement like "If you were younger, I wouldn't have even attacked Konoha".
Hiruzen is the strongest kage, and yet (when he was younger might I add) when Kyuubi attacked Konoha, all he could say was, "Oh let us stall until Yondaime comes"... right...
"They are the hokage sama who are hailed as being the best shinobi..."
Iruka
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"The third was said to be..."
Sandaime even remarks on Iruka's use of past-tense.
You think Iruka of all people to be credible? The only difference between him and fodder is that we know his name. Also, put into perspective that Sarutobi was right there next to him when he said it, and Sarutobi comforted him when his parents died. That's obviously more biased than factual.
Madara even claimed that his battle with Hashirama leveled the battle field... Hiruzen has demonstrated naught that would cause for a map to be redrawn...
What? No, neither of those people state Hiruzen to be the strongest save for Iruka. Orochimaru saying things would have been different if Hiruzen was younger is common sense, it doesn't apply that he was the strongest. Logic tells us, if things would have been so drastic, Orochimaru would have been saying another statement like "If you were younger, I wouldn't have even attacked Konoha".
Hiruzen is the strongest kage, and yet (when he was younger might I add) when Kyuubi attacked Konoha, all he could say was, "Oh let us stall until Yondaime comes"... right...
I have to give u some props I did get the tense of the word wrong so respect for point that out with MANGA PROOF cuz other just post their opinion with no fact to back it up.
Now I have to tell u that in ur last post u said they were the greatest and that's not the same as the best. Second I didn't say iruka was credible but he is he's a teacher for godsake. Now I did say hiruzen was the most credible cuz he was train by the 1st n 2nd. He trained the 5th and he trained the sensei of the 4th. Nobody has more knowledge of the hokage then that.
I have to give u some props I did get the tense of the word wrong so respect for point that out with MANGA PROOF cuz other just post their opinion with no fact to back it up.
Now I have to tell u that in ur last post u said they were the greatest and that's not the same as the best. Second I didn't say iruka was credible but he is he's a teacher for godsake. Now I did say hiruzen was the most credible cuz he was train by the 1st n 2nd. He trained the 5th and he trained the sensei of the 4th. Nobody has more knowledge of the hokage then that.
Ok, you're clarifying that best is not equivalent to strongest, I can respect that. Then I'd have to ask for your definition of strongest so that I can give me two-cents. If what you describe as strongest turns out to be Hiruzen, then so be it.
But to be fair, I just want to point out two parallels.
Kyuubi's invasion of Konoha: Sarutobi basically tells his group that all they can do is stall the Kyuubi until Minato appears
Pain's invasion of Konoha: Tsunade (and everyone else) basically says that all they can do is stall until Naruto appears
I believe that few would debate Tsunade being stronger than Naruto just based off that, so how is that any different than Hiruzen's case?
like i said Kabuto said strongest kage " could be talking about the 3rd generation kages or hokages "
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Third is saying dont use past tense "so maybe if they weren't edo he wouldn't have to use DDS " remember he was able to blow their limbs at the start of the fight.......
and thats what i've always said orochimaru himself has said if he was 10years young= meaning prime hiruzen was and is prob. the strongest hokage
during the 9tails attack he also said we'll deal with the 9tails while they wait for the 4th i dont see anything wrong with that after all he was retired..
This isn't Kabuto's own opinion, he is just reciting that of other's and he clearly isn't talking about Hokages because there hasn't even been 5 Hokages yet.
Third is saying dont use past tense "so maybe if they weren't edo he wouldn't have to use DDS " remember he was able to blow their limbs at the start of the fight.......
You missed my point. Iruka used past-tense, Sarutobi is saying don't use past-tense because that's a slap in his face. If they weren't edos, Hashirama would have just regenerated via uber-healing, and Tobirama wouldn't have gotten caught in the first place as he has space/time ninjutsu.
and thats what i've always said orochimaru himself has said if he was 10years young= meaning prime hiruzen was and is prob. the strongest hokage
No, that just means he would have proved more difficult to battle not that he was the strongest.
during the 9tails attack he also said we'll deal with the 9tails while they wait for the 4th i dont see anything wrong with that after all he was retired..
He retired from being Hokage not a shinobi. His job as a shinobi is to protect the Hokage and if he can't that's when the hokage steps in. When Pain attacked Konoha, did Kakashi chill and say "Naaa, let's wait for the hokage"? No! He did his job as a shinobi which Sarutobi was. Also, this contradicts your assumption that Orochimaru meant Hiruzen was the strongest ten years ago, because this Kyuubi attack is about ten years ago (I'm not too sure about the time frame, but I'm sure it is around there).
Ok, you're clarifying that best is not equivalent to strongest, I can respect that. Then I'd have to ask for your definition of strongest so that I can give me two-cents. If what you describe as strongest turns out to be Hiruzen, then so be it.
But to be fair, I just want to point out two parallels.
Kyuubi's invasion of Konoha: Sarutobi basically tells his group that all they can do is stall the Kyuubi until Minato appears
Pain's invasion of Konoha: Tsunade (and everyone else) basically says that all they can do is stall until Naruto appears
I believe that few would debate Tsunade being stronger than Naruto just based off that, so how is that any different than Hiruzen's case?
Ok I would first like to point out I'm not interested in another debate about who is the strongest but to explain let's using boxing as an example.
So their are 3 boxers Floyd mayweather Manny pacquioa and Marquez. Out of those 3 Marquez is no doubt the strongest. Now he is physically stronger so his hits do more damage and he can take more damage. But that doesnt mean he's the best or even mean he can win a single fight. As proof of this Marquez lost to both mayweather n pacquio. Marquez did beat pacquio cuz he got him with one good hit n that strength that makes him physically superior to everyone else won him the fight even tho he wasn't the best fighter. Mayweather is by far the weakest physically out of the 3 but he beat Marquez easily. Why cuz he's the best. Now everyone seems to believe that pacquio can beat mayweather cuz of his style. Now mayweather is no doubt the the better fighter but styles come into play so again the best fight could lose.
Same logic applies to naruto. Remember that hiruzen chakra was so strong that even in his old age the atmosphere got dense when hr used a jutsu. But that doesn't make him the best shinobi.
Ps idk if u watch boxing or not but it was the quickest example I could come up with.
Ok I would first like to point out I'm not interested in another debate about who is the strongest but to explain let's using boxing as an example.
So their are 3 boxers Floyd mayweather Manny pacquioa and Marquez. Out of those 3 Marquez is no doubt the strongest. Now he is physically stronger so his hits do more damage and he can take more damage. But that doesnt mean he's the best or even mean he can win a single fight. As proof of this Marquez lost to both mayweather n pacquio. Marquez did beat pacquio cuz he got him with one good hit n that strength that makes him physically superior to everyone else won him the fight even tho he wasn't the best fighter. Mayweather is by far the weakest physically out of the 3 but he beat Marquez easily. Why cuz he's the best. Now everyone seems to believe that pacquio can beat mayweather cuz of his style. Now mayweather is no doubt the the better fighter but styles come into play so again the best fight could lose.
Same logic applies to naruto. Remember that hiruzen chakra was so strong that even in his old age the atmosphere got dense when hr used a jutsu. But that doesn't make him the best shinobi.
Ps idk if u watch boxing or not but it was the quickest example I could come up with.
So through your boxing example, I am getting the implication that strongest refers to physical prowess (correct me if I am wrong). Which I would then have to say that belongs to Tsunade then.
Also, sorry for ruining your topic by getting off subject, let me just state that before things get out of hand, and I'll try to contain myself as much as possible if such is the case.
like i said Kabuto said strongest kage " could be talking about the 3rd generation kages or hokages "
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Third is saying dont use past tense "so maybe if they weren't edo he wouldn't have to use DDS " remember he was able to blow their limbs at the start of the fight.......
and thats what i've always said orochimaru himself has said if he was 10years young= meaning prime hiruzen was and is prob. the strongest hokage
during the 9tails attack he also said we'll deal with the 9tails while they wait for the 4th i dont see anything wrong with that after all he was retired..
I agree with u but I must point out that 10years younger hiruzen is still pretty much a senior citizen. A male starts to lose muscle mass n testosterone mid 40's
This isn't Kabuto's own opinion, he is just reciting that of other's and he clearly isn't talking about Hokages because there hasn't even been 5 Hokages yet.
You missed my point. Iruka used past-tense, Sarutobi is saying don't use past-tense because that's a slap in his face. If they weren't edos, Hashirama would have just regenerated via uber-healing, and Tobirama wouldn't have gotten caught in the first place as he has space/time ninjutsu.).
once again kishi didn't plan out everythign 10years ago kishi didn't plan on hashiraa having regeneration and same with tobirama.... if kishi were to right the same fight now he would just give the 3rd hokage more jutsu's cus in the end it would end the same..... can u not agree with that?
once again u are assuming what makes ur assumpiton better then mine cus i've used the manga to back me up "alot of dif. exampels " while hish people use to panels...... the anbu one and the madara one.....
He retired from being Hokage not a shinobi. His job as a shinobi is to protect the Hokage and if he can't that's when the hokage steps in. When Pain attacked Konoha, did Kakashi chill and say "Naaa, let's wait for the hokage"? No! He did his job as a shinobi which Sarutobi was. Also, this contradicts your assumption that Orochimaru meant Hiruzen was the strongest ten years ago, because this Kyuubi attack is about ten years ago (I'm not too sure about the time frame, but I'm sure it is around there).
I agree with u but I must point out that 10years younger hiruzen is still pretty much a senior citizen. A male starts to lose muscle mass n testosterone mid 40's
So through your boxing example, I am getting the implication that strongest refers to physical prowess (correct me if I am wrong). Which I would then have to say that belongs to Tsunade then.
Also, sorry for ruining your topic by getting off subject, let me just state that before things get out of hand, and I'll try to contain myself as much as possible if such is the case.
In the case of naruto physical is only 1/3 of strength. U also have the strength of chakra. Remember sasuke chakra is extremely strong but it doesn't cause the atmosphere to get dense. Also their is mental strength. Sakura mentally is almost just as strong as she is physically thus why she have inner sakura. So when iruka says hiruzen was the strongest it means as far as all 3 combine.
Taijutsu which is physical even tho he could barely hold up Emma anymore
Ninjutsu which is chakra or spiritual
Genjutsu which is mental.
Sorry but I would still have to say no to that cuz the 4th died 12yrs b4 the start of the series meaning he was still in his mido late 50's his prime would probably be around the time he sannin were kids. So his prime would be after the 1st shinobi war until the 3rd shinobi war when minato became a hero for leading the village to victory.
Sorry but I would still have to say no to that cuz the 4th died 12yrs b4 the start of the series meaning he was still in his mido late 50's his prime would probably be around the time he sannin were kids. So his prime would be after the 1st shinobi war until the 3rd shinobi war when minato became a hero for leading the village to victory.
really i thought he was in his late 20's early 30s they said he was younger than Kakashi when he was made Hokage.
If we assume he was 27-28 when he was made Hokage, cause Kakashi is 29-30 currently, we can calculate his death to be two years after he was made Hokage.
Itachi was around 4 during the Third Great Shinobi War ended, and he and Sasuke are six years apart. There was a part in the manga that showed Itachi holding a three month old Sasuke moments before the Nine Tail attacked. So two years must have passed since the war up to Minato's death.
really i thought he was in his late 20's early 30s they said he was younger than Kakashi when he was made Hokage.
If we assume he was 27-28 when he was made Hokage, cause Kakashi is 29-30 currently, we can calculate his death to be two years after he was made Hokage.
Itachi was around 4 during the Third Great Shinobi War ended, and he and Sasuke are six years apart. There was a part in the manga that showed Itachi holding a three month old Sasuke moments before the Nine Tail attacked. So two years must have passed since the war up to Minato's death.
If we are both talking about hiruzen we can do the math to see when his prime was. Let's say he died at the age of 70. 12yrs b4 that was minato death and that would have made hiruzen 58. 2yrs b4 that when the 3rd war was going on he would be 56. Let's say the sannin were 15yrs older than minato. Then that would mean during the 2nd war hiruzen was still 40yrs old.
lets see if i remember Iruka said it The 3rd said it himself kabuto also said he wasn't the strongest kage "could mean antying" orochimaru also said if he was only 10 years younger things might have been different 
