For those of you who bash the war and want deaths.

[chaos control]

No, I'm not meaning fighting the tough ones. Konoha 11 fought many Edos and Zetsu, yet they beat them all. This s a little overboard. I can't really tell who could have killed any of them, yet I find it odd that only random fodders get killed by Zetsu and Edos. The Konoha 11 aren't elites, they're merely Chuunin, like most of the Shinobi Alliance who gets beaten by random Zetsu. It's not about getting targeted, since no one of those fodders was actually targeted, but it's unrealistic that all of the Konoha11 were able to defeat all their enemies. Being that elite as to defeat all Zetsu and most Edo. Just look at Kiba, he's merely a Chuunin level ninja, and that half thanks to Akamaru, yet didn't die like most of the Chuunin / Jonin from Kumogakure or Kirigakure or any other village, who, supposedly fought with Chuunin or Jonin too, not just Genin and Academy students.

In a war, the target is to eliminate the enemy. The target isn't a simple person, it's the whole enemy. There shouldn't have been a bigger reason to kill Naruto's comrades than the reason to kill all those fodders.

1. The Zetsus are not that strong.

2. It is perfectly realistic for all of Konoha 11 to survive. It is true that it is not realistic in a war for nobody to die. However, you are just speaking as if the Konoha 11 were all the soldiers. Basically, your fraction's denominator is way too low. You basically have the perspective that 1/11 people died (Neji). In actuality, Neji was only 1/80,000 (80,000 was the original population of the allied forces) In an army of 80,000 people, 11 survivors is quite feasible. In fact, it would actually indicate that there were a huge amount of casualties. Think about world war 2. There were millions of soldiers. Many people died, yet there were well over 11 survivors! Having said that, Konoha 11's survival is perfectly realistic. If K 11 was the whole army, then all of them surviving would not be realistic. They are nowhere near the whole army however.

3. You are right that in a normal war, everyone is the target. However, the sole purpose of this particular war is to activate/prevent (depending on which side you're on) the infinite tsukuyomi. The capture of certain people (Naruto and Bee, w/ the silver and gold brothers as a fail safe) is necessary to activate the jutsu. Capturing these people and activating the jutsu would automatically end the war even if every other person was alive. Therefore, this war does have main targets. Killing people like Tenten, Chouji and Hinata does absolutely nothing. Yes the alliance would lose some numbers, but that is also the case with the other random shinobi. This brings me back to my original point that the K 11 are no different from the "fodders" to the antagonists.

4. As for your argument that Konoha 11 shouldn't have been able to beat all of their opponents and that other villages had chuunin and jonin as well, that is a fair respectable point. However, we should also know by now that Konoha in general has shinobi who are stronger on average than shinobi from other villages. Why do I say this? Well, do you remember the sand and sound invasion from part 1? All of those jonin sand and sound ninjas bombarded the churning exam arena after everyone was put under that genjutsu. However, they all got owned by 3 measly Konoha jonin (Kakashi, Guy and Asuma). Kakashi and Guy even made a competition to see who could kill the most. That's how far above those other jonin that these Konoha jonin were. There were also the ino shika cho dads. They easily owned platoons of sand and sound jonin. If I remember correctly, Hiashi, Shino's dad and Kiba's mom were beating some sand and sound ninjas too. This is all evidence that the Konoha jonin are generally stronger than at least the sand and Sound. As for other villages, Hiashi one shotted the Kumo head ninja. Kakashi beat Zabuza. Hiruzen was said to be the strongest of the 5 kage during his reign. Minato soloed armies during the 3rd war. The list goes on an on. Now it is true that you have your strong exceptions from other villages like Darui and Choujuro (and you notice that those two aren't dead), but with the evidence that I have given you can see that Konoha has generally stronger ninjas. Having said that, you should note that the Konoha 11 are the students and children of the strong Konoha jonin that I mentioned. Therefore, it makes sense for them to be pretty high tier themselves. Furthermore, most of the Konoha 11 are from well renowned clans. The ino shika cho was said to be respected and feared throughout the shinobi world. The anime revealed that the stone used to have a bug clan. Do you know who wiped them out? It was the Aburame clan from Konoha.

Furthermore, the Konoha 11 even have a little renown themselves and a few feats against shinobi from other villages to go with it. The reason why the rookie 9 was given that name was because they were good enough to take the chuunin exams after coming straight out of the academy. As for feats, Shino single handedly beat Kankuro. Shikamaru defeated Temari, Kin and Hidan. Naruto beat Gaara. Neji killed Kidomaru. Etc...

As you can see from these facts, the Konoha 11 are very capable of holding their own and it is not far fetched for them to be stronger than random shinobi #237. Also, I don't think the Konoha 11 fought that many edo ninjas. Mostly zetsus.

 

[miromiro]

1. The Zetsus are not that strong.

2. It is perfectly realistic for all of Konoha 11 to survive. It is true that it is not realistic in a war for nobody to die. However, you are just speaking as if the Konoha 11 were all the soldiers. Basically, your fraction's denominator is way too low. You basically have the perspective that 1/11 people died (Neji). In actuality, Neji was only 1/80,000 (80,000 was the original population of the allied forces) In an army of 80,000 people, 11 survivors is quite feasible. In fact, it would actually indicate that there were a huge amount of casualties. Think about world war 2. There were millions of soldiers. Many people died, yet there were well over 11 survivors! Having said that, Konoha 11's survival is perfectly realistic. If K 11 was the whole army, then all of them surviving would not be realistic. They are nowhere near the whole army however.

3. You are right that in a normal war, everyone is the target. However, the sole purpose of this particular war is to activate/prevent (depending on which side you're on) the infinite tsukuyomi. The capture of certain people (Naruto and Bee, w/ the silver and gold brothers as a fail safe) is necessary to activate the jutsu. Capturing these people and activating the jutsu would automatically end the war even if every other person was alive. Therefore, this war does have main targets. Killing people like Tenten, Chouji and Hinata does absolutely nothing. Yes the alliance would lose some numbers, but that is also the case with the other random shinobi. This brings me back to my original point that the K 11 are no different from the "fodders" to the antagonists.

4. As for your argument that Konoha 11 shouldn't have been able to beat all of their opponents and that other villages had chuunin and jonin as well, that is a fair respectable point. However, we should also know by now that Konoha in general has shinobi who are stronger on average than shinobi from other villages. Why do I say this? Well, do you remember the sand and sound invasion from part 1? All of those jonin sand and sound ninjas bombarded the churning exam arena after everyone was put under that genjutsu. However, they all got owned by 3 measly Konoha jonin (Kakashi, Guy and Asuma). Kakashi and Guy even made a competition to see who could kill the most. That's how far above those other jonin that these Konoha jonin were. There were also the ino shika cho dads. They easily owned platoons of sand and sound jonin. If I remember correctly, Hiashi, Shino's dad and Kiba's mom were beating some sand and sound ninjas too. This is all evidence that the Konoha jonin are generally stronger than at least the sand and Sound. As for other villages, Hiashi one shotted the Kumo head ninja. Kakashi beat Zabuza. Hiruzen was said to be the strongest of the 5 kage during his reign. Minato soloed armies during the 3rd war. The list goes on an on. Now it is true that you have your strong exceptions from other villages like Darui and Choujuro (and you notice that those two aren't dead), but with the evidence that I have given you can see that Konoha has generally stronger ninjas. Having said that, you should note that the Konoha 11 are the students and children of the strong Konoha jonin that I mentioned. Therefore, it makes sense for them to be pretty high tier themselves. Furthermore, most of the Konoha 11 are from well renowned clans. The ino shika cho was said to be respected and feared throughout the shinobi world. The anime revealed that the stone used to have a bug clan. Do you know who wiped them out? It was the Aburame clan from Konoha.

Furthermore, the Konoha 11 even have a little renown themselves and a few feats against shinobi from other villages to go with it. The reason why the rookie 9 was given that name was because they were good enough to take the chuunin exams after coming straight out of the academy. As for feats, Shino single handedly beat Kankuro. Shikamaru defeated Temari, Kin and Hidan. Naruto beat Gaara. Neji killed Kidomaru. Etc...

As you can see from these facts, the Konoha 11 are very capable of holding their own and it is not far fetched for them to be stronger than random shinobi #237. Also, I don't think the Konoha 11 fought that many edo ninjas. Mostly zetsus.

Fair enough. I still believe though that at least Tsunade and Oonoki should have been killed by now. Same goes for Kakashi. But, if we were to talk about deaths, this still is an issue. Think of the Pain Arc. How less dramatic would it have been if it weren't for Kakashi's temporary death, Tsunade's & Hinata's awful injuries and all that, instead of just some random fodders of Konoha? It's the same thing in this war. Nobody cares about 40,000 fodder ninja as much as Neji's death. That's why a death of a main character is more dramatic and important than the death of a few thousand fodder ones.

 

[chaos control]

Fair enough. I still believe though that at least Tsunade and Oonoki should have been killed by now. Same goes for Kakashi. But, if we were to talk about deaths, this still is an issue. Think of the Pain Arc. How less dramatic would it have been if it weren't for Kakashi's temporary death, Tsunade's & Hinata's awful injuries and all that, instead of just some random fodders of Konoha? It's the same thing in this war. Nobody cares about 40,000 fodder ninja as much as Neji's death. That's why a death of a main character is more dramatic and important than the death of a few thousand fodder ones.

I agree with you that Tsunade and Onoki should be dead. You are also right that the deaths of people like Kakashi make things more dramatic. I basically have no problem with your view point in terms of feeling and drama. My view point is mainly directed at people like that member the eagle who deny that this is a war. I am coming strictly from a battle standpoint, not a literary one. Whether this war bores you or not is your own choice. You are entitled to your own opinion. However, even if it bores you, I think people should still give it the credit it deserves. It is a war. Saying that it is not an interesting war from a literary standpoint is fine, but saying that it is not a war at all from even a battle perspective is going way too far. Kishi works hard for our enjoyment. The least we can do is give his work credit for what it is. Anyway, you are respectable. Thanks for being a civil debater, because some people can't debate without resorting to needless anger and childish name calling and insults.

 

[miromiro]

I agree with you that Tsunade and Onoki should be dead. You are also right that the deaths of people like Kakashi make things more dramatic. I basically have no problem with your view point in terms of feeling and drama. My view point is mainly directed at people like that member the eagle who deny that this is a war. I am coming strictly from a battle standpoint, not a literary one. Whether this war bores you or not is your own choice. You are entitled to your own opinion. However, even if it bores you, I think people should still give it the credit it deserves. It is a war. Saying that it is not an interesting war from a literary standpoint is fine, but saying that it is not a war at all from even a battle perspective is going way too far. Kishi works hard for our enjoyment. The least we can do is give his work credit for what it is. Anyway, you are respectable. Thanks for being a civil debater, because some people can't debate without resorting to needless anger and childish name calling and insults.

I'm an a**hole towards idiots and respectable towards respectable people. I don't see any reason to insult one unless you are insulted in first place. That's how I see things. But yeah, an opinion is an opinion. You have yours, I have mine, and everyone else has theirs. I do however believe that the arc would have been more of a war-feeling-one if there would have been more drama, more deaths of actually meaningful people. Glad to see you have no problem with my opinion. Just like you, I've also met people with problems, judging one's opinion being one of them. It's opinion, not fact. You shouldn't bother with such people, it'll only ruin your mood.

 

[Ngylle]

it should had been called *The Great Akatsuki/Tobi War*

Great shinobi world does not seem right.

 

[-Sky-]

Kill off a meaningful character for goodness sake . Nothing ups the anti like a comrade dying. U_U

More Neji's .