Food For Thought (Mangekyō)

[The Necromancer]

Allow me to persuade you two into my line of thinking.

I may be wrong in thinking this, but you two may believe Sasuke has Tsukuyomi because of

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that Tsukuyomi was a prerequisite for awakening Susano'o and the databook for reiteration this claim. While you are welcomed to do so, it appears that the author has changed his way of thinking since then. If you reread from that chapter on-wards, you will noticed that since Sasuke's acquisition of his Mangekyō he has not once referred to either of his Mangekyō techniques as Tsukuyomi.

Some try to argue that Killer Bee was trapped in Tsukuyomi and that Danzo himself said that he possessed this technique. This is false, Killer Bee was trapped in a mere

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and Danzo stated that his prowess with genjutsu is not on par with Itachi's.

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— not Tsukyomi that lead to Danzo's defeat.

Furthermore; the fact that Obito has yet to show the ability to use Tsukuyomi should indicate that he may not possess the technique and Madara himself has yet to display using Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. The people who claim that Madara has those techniques are speculating as much as I am in regards to his Mangekyō abilities. So it is with this that I arrived to my current belief, which is the Mangekyō techniques differ in accordance to there user by yet unknown means.

My own personal conclusion to the Tsukuyomi matter is this.

Sasuke- Sasuke's affinity toward MS techniques is obviously Amaterasu. Because of his natural affinity for it, Sasuke is able to manipulate the flames of amaterasu, thus forming Enton, or Blaze Release.

Itachi- Itachi's affinity is genjutsu and so his prioritized MS technique is genjutsu as well. Because of his affinity for it, his normal MS genjutsu (as i would like to call it) is upgraded to the point where he can manipulate time and space within it, thus forming Tsukuyomi.

In other words, i believe both itachi and sasuke have both Amaterasu and Genjutsu, while sasuke is proficient in amaterasu, creating enton, and itachi is proficient in genjutsu, creating tsukuyomi. Basically what i am saying is that the "Sharingan Genjutsu" we have seen sasuke use is nothing less than the "base" version of the genjutsu side of the MS while amaterasu is the "base" version of the ninjutsu side of the MS and just happens to be lucky enough to have its own name (probably because itachi was introduced first which gave us the second tier of genjutsu first, as if sasuke's was introduce first we may not have a name for amaterasu, but have one for the Sharingan Genjutsu). Sorry if this doesn't make sense, this is just my opinion.

 

[Varrah]

My own personal conclusion to the Tsukuyomi matter is this.

Sasuke- Sasuke's affinity toward MS techniques is obviously Amaterasu. Because of his natural affinity for it, Sasuke is able to manipulate the flames of amaterasu, thus forming Enton, or Blaze Release.

Itachi- Itachi's affinity is genjutsu and so his prioritized MS technique is genjutsu as well. Because of his affinity for it, his normal MS genjutsu (as i would like to call it) is upgraded to the point where he can manipulate time and space within it, thus forming Tsukuyomi.

In other words, i believe both itachi and sasuke have both Amaterasu and Genjutsu, while sasuke is proficient in amaterasu, creating enton, and itachi is proficient in genjutsu, creating tsukuyomi. Basically what i am saying is that the "Sharingan Genjutsu" we have seen sasuke use is nothing less than the "base" version of the genjutsu side of the MS while amaterasu is the "base" version of the ninjutsu side of the MS and just happens to be lucky enough to have its own name (probably because itachi was introduced first which gave us the second tier of genjutsu first, as if sasuke's was introduce first we may not have a name for amaterasu, but have one for the Sharingan Genjutsu). Sorry if this doesn't make sense, this is just my opinion.

Understandable, and it seems we can only agree to disagree at the moment. Let us hope that the author sometime in the near future shows us Madara's Mangekyō techniques.

 

[Roby]

I really like your threads
Great theory there and +rep for the effort !

 

[Y3llovv fla5h]

Nice theory...+rep!

 

[-Logic-]

Epic work as usual.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

Dude, good theory.





I agree b/c:

1) Sussano cannot be dependent on Sasuke/Itachi's MS abilities only. I highly doubt that Madara AND Izuna only had Amaterasu & Tsukuyomi. Madara obviously has Sussanoo so this would mean he has to have only those, but I'm sure he has some other badass techniques from awakening his MS. We will soon see...

2) I doubt that others with MS but without Ama/Tsu never had the ability to get Sussano, like Shisui for example.

 

[Varrah]

Reviving, in case Madara does have an unknown Mangekyō Sharingan ability.​

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[paratise]

I wasn't even born when this thread was made.

Online thesarus was abused less back then.

But anyway it is plausable. Maybe Maddy shows it in the further chapters.

 

[Champ]

You gave up on Sasuke obtaining Sage mode Varrah?

 

[~Uzumaki~]

The fact that Itachi had Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, and Sasuke has Amaterasu and has displayed something eerily similar the Tsukuyomi against Bee, and both have Susanoo, suggest that Susanoo is produced specifically from the possession of both techniques.

 

[Varrah]

I wasn't even born when this thread was made.

Online thesarus was abused less back then.

But anyway it is plausable. Maybe Maddy shows it in the further chapters.

Tell me about it CP.​

You gave up on Sasuke obtaining Sage mode Varrah?

No, I made this theory sometime before I made a theory of Sasuke using Sage Mode or Senjutsu.​

The fact that Itachi had Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, and Sasuke has Amaterasu and has displayed something eerily similar the Tsukuyomi against Bee, and both have Susanoo, suggest that Susanoo is produced specifically from the possession of both techniques.

This is incorrect, Itachi has Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu; these powers allow for the use of Susanoo. Sasuke rectified the Databook's statement of Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu being the prerequisites for Susanoo in

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, claiming, that those who can use the double Mangekyō can use Susanoo. The two powers of Sasuke's Mangekyō Sharingan are Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi as of yet; there has been no confirmation that Sasuke wields Tsukuyomi. Furthermore, the Genjutsu Sasuke struck Killer B with is an amplified version of Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu, a Sharingan Genjutsu—many people often overlook the Mangekyō Sharingan ability to increase the insightfulness and hypnotic powers of the Sharingan, which are the staple of the Dōjutsu. Uzumaki16, to avoid similar responses such as this, I will simply say let us wait for the following chapters to confirm if this theory is correct. ​

 

[Varrah]

Also, it would not surprise me if one of Madara’s Mangekyō Sharingan abilities was the familiar power of rewinding and forwarding time. [

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] Or it may be a power fitting the theme of his Susanoo: destruction incarnated. Again, keep in mind; these thoughts are only considerable if you believe that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not the sole requirements for unlocking Susanoo. I am not saying Madara cannot Amaterasu and/or Tsukuyomi; I am saying that because Madara possesses an Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan, there is a possibility that either Madara’s own Mangekyō Sharingan abilities or Izuna’s Mangekyō Sharingan abilities may have been something unseen until certain conditions are or were met. I will concede this stance if several future chapters prove this idea wrong.​

 

[Disquiet]

I'm ambivalent on the matter of Amaterasu and Tsukyomi being the prerequisites for Susano'o. However, I believe Madara possess an unforeseen mangekyou ability. This is mostly because Kishi is seemingly elusive of Madara's mangekyou techniques. I'm particularly referencing the battle at VOTE and between the 5 kages. Of course, one could make arguments for why he didn't use it both those fights. It's really just a gut feeling. There's also that one panel where it zoomed in on his eye after Hashirama abandoned his Mokuton summons.

I really get the feeling Kishi is being secretive with Madara's ocular powers, thus giving me reason to suspect Madara has different techniques from what has been shown so far. As I already stated, just a gut feeling.

 

[Senju Bean]

Nice. This is very intriguing. I really do wonder what Madara could have had for his MS techs.

Maybe it could be, Kamiyonanayo, which stands for the 7 generation of deities after the formation of the universe.

I wonder what power it would have. Madara clearly has an affinity to ninjutsu. He only used genjutsu once during this war and definitely preferred to "dance".

Perhaps it can warp time inside a barrier his eyes focus on, Kinda like Kamui. Maybe that's how he survived against Hashirama since he could have reversed time on his damaged organs. But maybe just not enough to compeletly reverse the damage as self use of Kamiyonanayo could be limited for this tech.( otherwise he could just make himself live forever)

This is fitting as Kamiyonanayo is supposed to represent deities over a long span of time. i.e divine power at every generation =>power of time. Perhaps local time control is this techs power.

I'm not talking about actual time travel as that would be too OP. I'm talking about fastforwarding or rewinding an objects state to a state in the past or a state in the future.

Anyways, I think this would be pretty cool.