Five Hokages vs 8 Gates Gai

[Lord Tywin]

First of all, the zoom of the scan is irrelevant and only proves my point, and it prevents your comparison between the forest and SS from making any type of sense. Explosion>>>>>>>>Mountain in size. Mountain=SS>Kyuubi in size. So please tell me how SS is over half as tall as that explosion? I'll wait.

I'm still waiting for you to show me another forest in that same exact area as both of these scans show.

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Until then you're the one not making any sense.

@bold, what? Where did you get SS being mountain sized when it's dwarfing mountains?

The bold is why you cannot be taken seriously. If you can't tell the distance between the grasslands and the statue, then do me a favor and explain what the hell your reasoning is based off of? Lmao. You literally make no sense. So please stop it. Why am I even bothering replying to you? You've done the same thing before that you are doing here. Denying Manga fact. Now, I'm going to repeat this again and maybe you'll stop spouting this nonsense.

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If you could see properly, you'd see that grassland is the only one in that area. I said we don't need to measure it accurately here because there is nothing here to measure it up against. We'd have to do with scaling and relativity of the body of water and the forest to each other.

-Mountains compared to Shinsuusenju.

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-Mountains compared to the explosion.

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smh where do you see SS being mountain sized again when it's dwarfing mountains?

Your comparison makes zero sense. Please tell me how Shinsuusenju rises to the point of the explosion that you show in this pic, when the Mountains are dwarfed by explosion? The same Mountains that are larger than PS Kyuubi and the same size as Shinsuusenju's main body? Your comparison boils down to the fact that the explosion and SS are both next to see, so they must be around the same size. :lol. Terrible terrible logic.

We go by zooming and scaling here, since we don't have anything else to compare them to right now.

What I'm trying to say here is that you are wrong. It was in the center of the explosion, thus it took the damage. What Hashirama endured is irrelevant.

That would have been true if both SS and PS Kyuubi had thrown their attacks at a single spot. They didn't. They were hitting each other. There is no center of explosion.

 

[Exaar]

Prime Hiruzen's hype gives him the Gates also (Learn't and able to use all Konoha jutsu's). He Opens 8th gate, wastes some or most of Gai's Gated time and the rest clean up afterwards
:bdpf:

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Is everyone seeing this guy and River? Lmao. Two people who cannot be taken seriously, at least not in this thread.

I'm still waiting for you to show me another forest in that same exact area as both of these scans show.

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Until then you're the one not making any sense.

I've explained why this comparison is utter garbage. If you are going to do what you do best and ignore it, then please save me the headache and just say so now so I know not to argue with you again.

@bold, what? Where did you get SS being mountain sized when it's dwarfing mountains?

It's main body is the same size as Mountains. Not to mention it's only around 2x the size of those Mountains, nothing that'd invalidate my point. Where in the hell do you see SS "dwarfing Mountains"?

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If you could see properly, you'd see that grassland is the only one in that area. I said we don't need to measure it accurately here because there is nothing here to measure it up against. We'd have to do with scaling and relativity of the body of water and the forest to each other.

You not having a way to measure it isn't proof that you don't have to measure it. It's proof that you have no way to prove the nonsense you are spewing. That simple. Stop saying scaling and relativity when I'm 100% sure that not even you yourself know what the hell you are doing with this scan.

You sound dumb saying "I don't need to accurately measure it" when an accurate measurement or comparison is the only way your argument flies, and you have neither.

We go by zooming and scaling here, since we don't have anything else to compare them to right now.

iKratos. Please stop posting for a bit and actually read the Manga (and maybe read up on perspective while you are at it) It will do you wonders when it comes to arguing your point.

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Please tell me how the distance between SS and the forest can be seen or determined in this scan or any scan when:

-SS is around the same size as those Mountains that are made to look like dots in comparison to the explosion.
-The whole scan's perspective is completely different, once again proven by the Mountains.

For your comparison to work, you'd have to prove (I know that this is a hard concept for most people here to grasp, but you'll have to bear with it) that the height of SS is really what you think it is, as shown here.

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But once again:

1. You have no proof of this.
2. You have no proof that the grassland you are circling is the same one.
3. What you are saying has already been proven to be completely impossible because SS is only at most 2x larger than SOME of those Mountains when it comes to size, and those Mountains that it rivals in height look like tiny ass dots on the panel, thus SS would look the same.

So how in the hell are you getting the height of SS to be over half the height of the explosion? But I fully expect you to ignore this, and repeat the same BS you've been repeating for 2 posts now, with zero proof for your claim.

That would have been true if both SS and PS Kyuubi had thrown their attacks at a single spot. They didn't. They were hitting each other. There is no center of explosion.

:lol. Do you realize how retarded this sounds? There was an explosion, but there is no center? If there is an explosion, then the middle of the explosion is the center. They were standing in front of each other. Then they ran at each other, then Madara fired his attack and Hashirama fired his attack, then there was a giant explosion where they were standing. That is the center.

 

[Rιver]

You know, this would've been good debate if 50% of the arguments weren't these:

piss poor logic

shitty ass logic

saying some crazy shit

Yes, only because you used shitty ass logic, logic that I detest.

What I want you to do is pull your head out of your ass

This is discouraging, I even had to cross these out and what was left was 5 lines worth of text out of a wallie.

Also, the entire debate revolved around you suddenly changing your mind after a year or two. Did you:

pull your head out of your ass

?

But nvm.

Call it your win.

Get the prize.

Get the medal.

Give a pat to yourself on the back.

Gg, celebrate it.

Is this what you wanted?

Smh.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Yeah, so...





Are we both stupid now? :/

Lmfao. And you even got a quote from 2 and a half years ago? Your posts reek of desperation. What's worse is that the bottom panel shows a completely unrelated BD. This is neg worthy, sig worthy, wall of fail worthy stuff here.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

You know, this would've been good debate if 50% of the arguments weren't these:











This is discouraging, I even had to cross these out and what was left was 5 lines worth of text out of a wallie.

Call it your win.

Get the prize.

Get the medal.

Give a pat to yourself on the back.

Gg, celebrate it.

Is this what you wanted?

Smh.

This would be a good debate if I were arguing with someone who didn't like to ignore Manga fact and clear cut evidence. Now, I'm going to cross out all of the insults (well deserved ones) and show you how much of my post is raw evidence.

Spoiler

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You can clearly see a giant gap in his torso here.

3. Don't use piss poor logic. If this was what you were gonna reply with you should've just not replied. Think I've had to deal with enough of that BS for one week. I hope I don't have to show you what dust and rubble looks like. FRS and that final explosion at VoTE are clearly not dust. Please go learn what dust looks like and tell me if what you see there is dust. :lol

1. There is no rubble in that explosion. Rubble would be solid pieces of the ground. I hope I don't have to show you what rock looks like just to prove that there is no rock in this

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Same thing goes for FRS.

2. The notion that 12 giant Bijuu Dama would explode into something that isn't a real explosion is probably a laughable assumption, seems you are making quite a bit of those lately.

FRS's total energy is what lets it explode like that. Every other time it's used all that energy is condensed in the wind sphere.

3. Your Deidara example is piss poor, because we already know how strong a Bijuu Dama's energy per area is, and it's far above something like CO and FRS. 1 single BD is Mountain sized, and it vaporizes Mountains without a trace. C0 and C3 and FRS don't even begin to do that, not to mention EE's crater is larger than anything they've ever done, so your example still makes zero sense.

What's absolutely hilarious is that you wanna talk about the feats that Evening Elephant and Shinsuusenju/Madara's final attack have when it comes to wrecking things to determine it's power, yet you ignore the obvious facts that when it comes to that, Gai's Evening Elephant has one feat, and that's destroying the Gudo Dama. PS is far more durable than the Gudo Dama. So if we play it that nonsense way, then you lose and it's not even close.





Yes, only because you used shitty ass logic, logic that I detest. Not to mention you are adding unnecessary amounts of greater signs, as if it proves your point.

EE direct hit>>EE>>BSM BD and Susanoo Arrow>>BSM BD>>BM Bijuu Dama.

Full Kurama's standard Bijuu Dama is already equal or stronger than Naruto and Sasuke's combo attack given the gap in size between each BD, which is massive. [

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]

Let alone Kurama's final BD Barrage, which was comprised of BD the size of SS's

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.

Chojo Kebutsu+12 Giant BD>Night Guy>>>>Evening Elephant.

A single BD from Full Kurama from the barrage>>>Naruto and Sasuke's combo attack.

Where the hell are you even getting this ridiculous ass gap in power between BM Bijuu Dama and Kurama's Bijuu Dama when there is literally no difference? What's worse is that Full Kurama's BD feats shit on Naruto's. Smh.





Good. You've proved that Night Guy is far stronger than 1 Bijuu Dama. Give yourself a pat on the back and try to remember that we are not talking about only 1 Bijuu Dama here.



You've covered nothing.




What in the hell?

1. Mokuton doesn't burn just like that because it's not regular Wood, that doesn't change the fact that it's composition would make it easier for Fire to burn it, assuming the fire was strong enough.

2. YRS is formed by Lava in the center, and Wind as the blade. When the lava explodes, it merges with the wind and cuts the opponent. The "shockwave" didn't cut jack. The expansion of the blade is what cut the Shinju.

That is Post 1. Now for Post 2.

Spoiler

What I want you to do is pull your head out of your ass and actually read my posts (including previous ones) and the Manga before you reply, because I addressed all this. :lol


The links are in the post you failed to reply to. Address it and then get back at me. That addresses this: BM BD>>>>>Regular Kurama BD nonsense, and everything that has to do with Full Kurama's BD vs. Naruto's attacks. Full Kurama fires 12 BD the size of SS's hands out a time. Naruto fires 5 that are the size of his body. (Not Kurama's body, his human body) What's worse is that you are making nonsense claims yet you can't even prove them when asked. Which is another reason why it's getting hard to take you seriously as of late.

1. Please show me where BM Naruto's regular Bijuu Dama has shown to be stronger than Kurama's regular Bijuu Dama? Because Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama has shown to be much larger. Links have been posted, please go read them.

2. Night Guy's best feat is making a giant hole in the Shinju and vaporizing Madara's body, where he was hit. The combined explosion at Madara and Hashirama's attacks is far larger than that of the Shinju's width.

I don't know how Gai's techniques became so wanked on NB, but people claiming that his attacks are stronger and will do worse than what 12 giant BDs and something equal to that would do need to fall back, read the Manga correctly this time, and then post again.

3. Are you actually claiming that the Gudo Dama are as durable as Madara's Susanoo? Lol. The same Gudo Dama that were damaged by:

-Rasengan.
-PS blade from Sasuke.
-9 Rasengan from Naruto's friends.
-Small BSM BD and Senjutsu Susanoo Arrow

LMFAO. River, please don't do this here.

Final post.

Spoiler

When will you morons stop attempting to use my quotes as evidence? My stance from a year ago doesn't reflect my stance now, nor does it help because my stance from a year ago clearly contradicts what the Manga said. :lol. It's sad that you people spend so much time trying to find what I said instead of trying to find evidence for your claims.


Hmmm, wonder why I don't say it anymore?

Oh wait, because it's wrong. River. Please use some common sense, if you have any that is because the nonsense I've seen over the past few days makes me wonder whether or not you should join the retarded debaters to avoid list. RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama is the same size as Kurama's in ball form, but the explosion IS FAR LARGER. And that is because his chakra is FAR STRONGER. Size of the ball=/=Strength when talking about entities with two different chakra strengths. Not size of the explosion. So once again, your example is terrible and your logic is trash. When it comes to the same type of explosive, size=power. That's why we can look at C1, C2 and C3 and tell which one is stronger based on size alone, because it is the same type of energy.


Hachibi's statement was for the Juubi and it's Jinchuuriki. Unless Naruto hosts the Juubi, stop mentioning irrelevant points. The explosion sizes from Naruto's attacks and Full Kurama's attacks end any and all assertions that "BM Naruto>>>>>>Full Kurama's BD". I suggest we do less of asking for proof, and more of actually producing our own.





River. Stop being daft. A kick not being an explosion doesn't change the fact that one is stronger, and there is a way to determine which is stronger. The fact that all you can say is "Night Guy>>>>SS and PS's attack" with no evidence but "Dude lol, kick=/=Explosion" proves you have no argument.

Which is irrelevant. Like I've told all the clowns you've used this logic. Different type of attack doesn't change the fact that one can be



Are you dumb or something? I've already proved that. Naruto's combo attack blew a giant hole in the Gudo Dama. Madara's PS tanked something on par with that with no damage. Giant Rasengan damaged one Gudo Dama. It's inferior to what PS tanked with zero damage. It took 12 Giant BD and SS's explosion to wreck PS. Gudo Dama was blown open by a far inferior attack.

Also, I'm still waiting for proof for:



Proven.


Proven. Especially since you don't have a real rebuttal to this, just the usual BS I'd expect from you.


Proven.



Proven. What's funny is that all evidence presented for this claim was ignored, but considering that is what you do best, I really can't be surprised at this point.


I said it might break through, and I never said squat about the user. That's because despite it being inferior, it's focused and actually extremely powerful unlike a single step of Evening Elephant.

So please do me a favor and don't come at me with that "50% of your arguments are insults" BS. It's not gonna fly here pal.

Also, the entire debate revolved around you suddenly changing your mind after a year or two. Did you:

Do you even know what the word suddenly means? A change in opinion over 2 years isn't suddenly. What's worse is that I've been saying this same exact thing for a good 6 months to a year. This debate was supposed to be about the claims highlighted, but instead of proving me wrong, you tried to use incorrect posts from over 2 years ago as proof.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Holy shit, full paragraphs of insults XD

 

[Beans2]

Lol at something weaker than EE taking out a large portion of SS. Night Gai is barely strong enough to destroy PS

Why did my post get 5 dislikes when all I stated was the truth? KeyOfDestiny proved me right over and over again despite multiple noobs trying to prove him wrong.

@Topic- Kages win. Minato's avatar protects Hashi long enough for him to pull out SS, which barely takes any time at all btw. Then Hashi mayflys inside the statue with Minato's kunai and the rest of his team teleport to safety and outlast 8th Gate. Well, doesn't matter if Hashi is the only one who survives because it counts as a victory for his team.

 

[Haizaki]

Why did my post get 5 dislikes when all I stated was the truth? KeyOfDestiny proved me right over and over again despite multiple noobs trying to prove him wrong.

@Topic- Kages win. Minato's avatar protects Hashi long enough for him to pull out SS, which barely takes any time at all btw. Then Hashi mayflys inside the statue with Minato's kunai and the rest of his team teleport to safety and outlast 8th Gate. Well, doesn't matter if Hashi is the only one who survives because it counts as a victory for his team.

Multiple noobs? Better not be putting me in that category. Your post can get dislikes if people don't like it...Nothing personal. Not at least to the extent where you have to mention it out in the thread lol.

 

[Touken]

Gai's normal punch isn't what causes those craters, he is clearly using a jutsu there so the comparison you are drawing between his normal punch in 7G and this doesn't even make sense.

I'm pretty sure it's still a punch.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Is everyone seeing this guy and River? Lmao. Two people who cannot be taken seriously, at least not in this thread.




I've explained why this comparison is utter garbage. If you are going to do what you do best and ignore it, then please save me the headache and just say so now so I know not to argue with you again.

You didn't even bother to understand what I'm trying to compare here. You said this

Please tell me how the distance between SS and the forest can be seen or determined

Not even once I was trying to measure the distance between SS and the forest. I was talking about the distance between that forest with the sea.
Now for the fourth time, show me another forest in that same area, just like you previously said

You have zero proof that the vegetation in that panel from 621 is the same as the one you marked for the panel in 626 considering that vegetation can be seen in multiple places.

Show me.

It's main body is the same size as Mountains. Not to mention it's only around 2x the size of those Mountains, nothing that'd invalidate my point. Where in the hell do you see SS "dwarfing Mountains"?

Where are you getting this from? This isn't some 2-D game that doesn't show us the scale of things.Those mountains you pointed out aren't in front of SS, they're to its side. So the way they're drawn in those scans show that they're the same size as SS's main body. But if we bring the angle those scans are shown to us, and bring it down to the ground level, the mountains reach SS's knee.

There is also PS next to mountains

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And there is Mokujin, although a bit smaller than PS, sitting on top of SS's head.

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SS dwarfs the **** out of those mountains.

You not having a way to measure it isn't proof that you don't have to measure it. It's proof that you have no way to prove the nonsense you are spewing. That simple. Stop saying scaling and relativity when I'm 100% sure that not even you yourself know what the hell you are doing with this scan.

You sound dumb saying "I don't need to accurately measure it" when an accurate measurement or comparison is the only way your argument flies, and you have neither.

I've literally shown you everything on this matter.

SS's height scaling compared to the forest behind it

Spoiler

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A zoomed out scan

Spoiler

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Now let me break it down for you since you're that slow

You've yet to show me another forest behind SS, like you previously claimed

"You have zero proof that the vegetation in that panel from 621 is the same as the one you marked for the panel in 626 considering that vegetation can be seen in multiple places"

So we're going to compare the scaling with that forest.

In the first scan you see the forest being not that far from the sea. And then you see SS's height compared to the forest.

In the second scan, you see the same forest. The picture is zoomed out, so we're going to make SS a bit smaller, just like the distance between the sea and the forest in both scans shrank, because of the zooming out. Now where will most likely be in the explosion, and how high it is in it? It most likely comes goes something like this

Spoiler

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You can also see the clouds in both of these scans.

Summary
_The second scan isn't as zoomed out as much
_The forest in both scans is close to the sea
_SS is half that explosion

There is your answer

iKratos. Please stop posting for a bit and actually read the Manga (and maybe read up on perspective while you are at it) It will do you wonders when it comes to arguing your point.

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Please tell me how the distance between SS and the forest can be seen or determined in this scan or any scan when:

smh I never once tried to determine the distance between SS and the forest.

-SS is around the same size as those Mountains that are made to look like dots in comparison to the explosion.
-The whole scan's perspective is completely different, once again proven by the Mountains.

And I've showed it to you with scaling, which is better than the mountains being used here.

For your comparison to work, you'd have to prove (I know that this is a hard concept for most people here to grasp, but you'll have to bear with it) that the height of SS is really what you think it is, as shown here.

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But once again:

1. You have no proof of this.
2. You have no proof that the grassland you are circling is the same one.
3. What you are saying has already been proven to be completely impossible because SS is only at most 2x larger than SOME of those Mountains when it comes to size, and those Mountains that it rivals in height look like tiny ass dots on the panel, thus SS would look the same.

So how in the hell are you getting the height of SS to be over half the height of the explosion? But I fully expect you to ignore this, and repeat the same BS you've been repeating for 2 posts now, with zero proof for your claim.

lawl I just did for the past 2 pages.

:lol. Do you realize how retarded this sounds? There was an explosion, but there is no center? If there is an explosion, then the middle of the explosion is the center. They were standing in front of each other. Then they ran at each other, then Madara fired his attack and Hashirama fired his attack, then there was a giant explosion where they were standing. That is the center.

Yes, you're right there is a center, but it would be here

Spoiler

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What you're saying implies that they're throwing their attacks in that spot. Which would hit SS's main body, but here is no damage here that we can see

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What I'm trying to show to this guy is that size of SS, position of the forest North West of the sea, and the distance between the sea and the forest. And that forest is the only forest to the North West of the sea.

 

[Rιver]

One thing you guys have to understand that not always you are right. I will reply later KG.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

I'm pretty sure it's still a punch.

Which is irrelevant for reasons stated in the post you just quoted.

 

[Touken]

Which is irrelevant for reasons stated in the post you just quoted.

The fact that he's using a jutsu doesn't invalidate the fact that he can pull off a much stronger one in 8G.

 

[Apêx1]

Suiton is a component, yet it shares no properties with it at all, and it being comprised of it isn't proof that it does. So your support for Hirudora snapping the hands because it's pressure is weak. You are pretty much telling me that it prevails because it's a pressure based attack, and that's not evidence.

Ok I'll drop this point. Although pressure has shown to be more effective then high energy, but I can't quantify the difference to explain 12 TBB.

Like I told River. Stop using bad logic. It being able to penetrate doesn't mean that it can destroy any kind of Mokuton regardless of how durable it is.

It's not bad logic. Mokuton can be torn apart rather easily based on its structure. TBBRS has already ripped through tonnes of hands without losing any momentum. So FRS could do the same to those particular hands.

Lol. So now Rasen Shuriken is more penetrative than a PS Blade spinning with the speed and force of a Bijuu Dama? One of the fastest ones used in the Manga no less? I hope you're joking.

The RS is more penetrative. That's a fact whether you like it or not. PS is just an extremely tough substance, and TBB gives it huge momentum. But there's literally nothing supporting the PS blade itself being more penetrative then the FRS, because the FRS is comprised of Futon chakra to make it sharper, and is much thinner on its RS.

Pretty sure I've said this on this thread before, but something being super focused isn't automatic proof it'll get through, nor is it's depth proof it will get through, not when the gap in overall power between EE and what SS survived is absolutely ridiculous in size. A single one of those BD that Kurama fired would be stronger than EE, let alone 12 of them along with another equal attack.

I don't get your logic here. Sure it doesn't mean it will automatically get through. But based on that crater, and based on how high Gai was when he blasted him down, there's literally nothing disputing its energy per area being >>>. Especially when the ground didn't even splinter, it was actually compressed to an insane degree. It's a feat upon another feat.

Then there's the fact that Madara was shrugging off indirect hits. More reason for me not to believe that it one shots any Mokuton. But I'll agree that it will do damage.

Indirect hits. Don't see how they are relevant unless you are referring to a specific one.

"It was a punch regardless" doesn't validate your claim. If you want to make a good comparison I suggest you compare 8G Gai punching without using Evening Elephant.

Uh what? Unless you can give me a single reason as to why his normal full powered punch would not compare to his EE punch, there's nothing going for you here. It's a punch. EE is merely Gai using powerful punches to create 'air canons'. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gai's normal punch isn't what causes those craters, he is clearly using a jutsu there so the comparison you are drawing between his normal punch in 7G and this doesn't even make sense.

A "jutsu" which is a punch followed by many other punches. It does not change the fact that it is a full powered punch at all, and anything 7G Gai could do would be extremely inferior. Scale 8G punches with Hirudora having far more energy per area, and you have one OP shockwave.

 

[Beans2]

Multiple noobs? Better not be putting me in that category. Your post can get dislikes if people don't like it...Nothing personal. Not at least to the extent where you have to mention it out in the thread lol.

Okay that post was mainly explaining why I think the hokages win. I was just confused why so many people didn't like the post I first made, not taking it personally. Joking about the noob part.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

The fact that he's using a jutsu doesn't invalidate the fact that he can pull off a much stronger one in 8G.

Which is irrelevant. The comparison is that since Hirudora>>>>normal 7G punch. 8G Hirudora>>>>normal 8G punch, even though Evening Elephant is not a normal 8G punch. It's a jutsu.

It's not bad logic. Mokuton can be torn apart rather easily based on its structure. TBBRS has already ripped through tonnes of hands without losing any momentum. So FRS could do the same to those particular hands.

It being wood is not evidence that any Rasen Shuriken can tear apart Mokuton.

The RS is more penetrative. That's a fact whether you like it or not. PS is just an extremely tough substance, and TBB gives it huge momentum. But there's literally nothing supporting the PS blade itself being more penetrative then the FRS, because the FRS is comprised of Futon chakra to make it sharper, and is much thinner on its RS.

So basically you are basing your evidence on nothing? Cause that's all I read here.

-PS being tough is irrelevant because we not talking about PS, we are talking about it's blade.
-It being made of Fuuton Chakra and being smaller is evidence is more penetrative? :lol, no. That makes zero sense. I can go find any jutsu that fits that criteria, and by your logic, it'd be more penetrative than PS blade.

Something that can cleanly chop Mountains in half is far more penetrative than any Rasen Shuriken regardless of it being made of Fuuton.

I don't get your logic here. Sure it doesn't mean it will automatically get through. But based on that crater, and based on how high Gai was when he blasted him down, there's literally nothing disputing its energy per area being >>>. Especially when the ground didn't even splinter, it was actually compressed to an insane degree. It's a feat upon another feat.

I agree that Evening Elephant would eventually get through so let's just leave it at that.

Indirect hits. Don't see how they are relevant unless you are referring to a specific one.

The indirect hit is what caused that crater, and that is what we are debating about.

Uh what? Unless you can give me a single reason as to why his normal full powered punch would not compare to his EE punch, there's nothing going for you here. It's a punch. EE is merely Gai using powerful punches to create 'air canons'. Nothing more, nothing less.

Can we stop with the bad logic? Evening Elephant being a jutsu is proof enough that it's not his normal punch. Hirudora is a punch. If I used your logic, I'd would've been able to argue that his normal punch=Hirudora, and that's pure nonsense. Gai forms elephant feet made of air pressure and then fires it at the target. Not a normal punch.

 

[ToshiZO]

One Hokage runs away waits for Gai's suicide attack to be complete, and then claims victory for his dead comrades. Or if everyone chooses to fight its a stalemate at best for Gai, as he dies after he kills them.

 

[NarutoX28]

Evening Elephant beat the shit out of the guy who tanked a Rikudou Enhanced Yoton RasenShuriken from Rikudou Naruto. Do you think PS can tank a hit that obliterated the Shinju?

 

[Touken]

Which is irrelevant. The comparison is that since Hirudora>>>>normal 7G punch. 8G Hirudora>>>>normal 8G punch, even though Evening Elephant is not a normal 8G punch. It's a jutsu.

EE is still a normal punch. It's just his fastest punch.