Feats and hype, hiruzen beats hashi

[MickNerks]

Not really, considering TenTen has zero feats. When there are zero feats, which is the case here, then we go by hype, which means Sakumo>TenTen, so you're still wrong.

Tenten does have feats, she was able to use the bashosen (sage weapon). So she aquired the power of the sage. That feat is greater than any feat from sakumo.

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so your logic obviously is wrong.

 

[Rike Senju]

This kind of threads should just be banned..everytime its made a flame war starts.

 

[LegendaryAce]

Why? why wont fan-boys give it a rest? How can you even argue with the owner of the show?
Hiruzen > Hashirama, and don't worry im not gonna list out a bunch of stupid moves, and give you absurd reasons why my favorite would win, im just gonna end the argument.
an old hiruzen defeated hashi and his boy
hiruzen was praised as the god of shinobi
kishimoto said hiruzen is the strongest
so now why oh why do people still argue??????

clearly you're stupid if you think hiruzen defeated hashirama and tobirama? he didnt defeat the most he did was draw with them but he also lost the fight get your facts straight.

also please be serious hashirama has more feats

hype is debatable now please keep quiet.

 

[KamuiShiryu]

clearly you're stupid if you think hiruzen defeated hashirama and tobirama? he didnt defeat the most he did was draw with them but he also lost the fight get your facts straight.

also please be serious hashirama has more feats

hype is debatable now please keep quiet.

Hiruzen blew up their legs and arms that alone would have killed them if they weren't edo..... sorry to say but i agree 3rd vs edo tobirama and hashirama was a draw only because they were edo.

hiruzen being able to seal both hashi and tobi is more then enough feat to be better then the 1st...

hype is debatable unless it comes from kishi!!! and his books.... kishi opinion > anyone else.........

so please keep quiet..

 

[LegendaryAce]

Hiruzen blew up their legs and arms that alone would have killed them if they weren't edo..... sorry to say but i agree 3rd vs edo tobirama and hashirama was a draw only because they were edo.

hiruzen being able to seal both hashi and tobi is more then enough feat to be better then the 1st...

hype is debatable unless it comes from kishi!!! and his books.... kishi opinion > anyone else.........

so please keep quiet..

ofcourse kishi > anyones opinion.

but you make a mistake on a few parts

1. orochimaru was controlling them so he knew they would die so he would make them get rid of the tags would he thats wasting time...we've seen this happen a few times edos purposely taking hits as the person controlling them...or if they are controlling themselves they know they cant die... had he been alive he would surely have known that hiruzen put those there and that wouldnt kill hashirama or tobirama... they are ninjas if they die by that they are surely weak... moving on orochimaru laughs when the tags explode and watches them get their arm and legs back... showing he wasnt that bother by it

Sorry but that means jack all ...if any one even tenten learns how to use RDS and seals edo madara ... that wont mean much as its a move that KILLS you in the process its a last resort meaning you have no other choice but to use it or you are going to lose... thats exacly what would have happened to hiruzen in that fight and on top of that they were only toying with him and pushed him to his limit...

( why i say he would have noticed the tags ...he is a shonobi they are trained this things as basics... look at the minato vs A and killer bee fight killer bee should have know that minato put a seal on him to react that fast to FTG ... that basic things ... only time ive seen that work is when minato HITS obito with a resengan and at the same time he puts a seal thats what you call smart and something you cant spot easily ...but easily placing an exploding tag like that is something thats easy to counter...and please tell me you dont actually believe that those tags would have killed them?)

and ill tell you now

Hashirama , Tobirama and Orochimaru non edo and all with intention to kill vs Hiruzen prime or not + enma ...that fight ends with hiruzen dead.

 

[KamuiShiryu]

ofcourse kishi > anyones opinion.

but you make a mistake on a few parts

1. orochimaru was controlling them so he knew they would die so he would make them get rid of the tags would he thats wasting time...we've seen this happen a few times edos purposely taking hits as the person controlling them...or if they are controlling themselves they know they cant die... had he been alive he would surely have known that hiruzen put those there and that wouldnt kill hashirama or tobirama... they are ninjas if they die by that they are surely weak... moving on orochimaru laughs when the tags explode and watches them get their arm and legs back... showing he wasnt that bother by it

Sorry but that means jack all ...if any one even tenten learns how to use RDS and seals edo madara ... that wont mean much as its a move that KILLS you in the process its a last resort meaning you have no other choice but to use it or you are going to lose... thats exacly what would have happened to hiruzen in that fight and on top of that they were only toying with him and pushed him to his limit...

( why i say he would have noticed the tags ...he is a shonobi they are trained this things as basics... look at the minato vs A and killer bee fight killer bee should have know that minato put a seal on him to react that fast to FTG ... that basic things ... only time ive seen that work is when minato HITS obito with a resengan and at the same time he puts a seal thats what you call smart and something you cant spot easily ...but easily placing an exploding tag like that is something thats easy to counter...and please tell me you dont actually believe that those tags would have killed them?)

and ill tell you now

Hashirama , Tobirama and Orochimaru non edo and all with intention to kill vs Hiruzen prime or not + enma ...that fight ends with hiruzen dead.

LMAO dude re read the manga orochimaru said himself he didn't notice the tags........ nice try though keep trying to make up more excuses......

and tomirama and hashirama both had the intention of killing once again orochimaru stated he made them into killing Machines.....

ooo and b4 u say well they weren't even fully powered up...... sorry to say once again........ they were kabuto stated himself in part 2 might i add that orochimaru perfected the edo techn.

 

[LegendaryAce]

LMAO dude re read the manga orochimaru said himself he didn't notice the tags........ nice try though keep trying to make up more excuses......

and tomirama and hashirama both had the intention of killing once again orochimaru stated he made them into killing Machines.....

ooo and b4 u say well they weren't even fully powered up...... sorry to say once again........ they were kabuto stated himself in part 2 might i add that orochimaru perfected the edo techn.

fair point about the tags... but a real person would be able to sense it better... moving on

Clearly you dont believe that word for word? An edo is a good as its user as it follows the commands given and the tags orochimaru gave them take over 100% everything they do...so orochimaru's big ego got in the way of them killing hiruzen...they werent trying to kill him they were toying with him... they might be killing machines but if not given the command to kill they wont do it...read the manga it say the line about the whole toying thing and THEN hiruzen resorts to his last move before he died RDS which means he knew there was nothing else he could do he had to kill himself along with the edos since they are so dangerous for anyone to fight?

ooo i never was going to mention that they did have full power... all ill say is they didnt reach their full capabilities and they couldnt fight like they would fight in a real live battle.. they were fighting to toy with hiruzen...because orochimaru wanted to mess around with hiruzen mentally and make him give up...and hiruzen gave up before enma snapped him out of it so it was working ..AND THE ONLY REASON HIRUZEN COULD USE RDS WAS BECAUSE OROCHIMARU LET HIM USE IT.. he wanted to see what jutsu it was and that was his downfall...he made the edos stop and he was getting turned on by what possible move hiruzen could use in that situation...

dont get me wrong i dont hate hiruzen... but dont overrate him ...that fight would have went different if orochimaru wanted to actually kill hiruzen without playing around ...

what i was trying to say if you didnt understand

yes the edos were at full power
no they didnt use their full capabilities
no they werent being used to kill hiruzen just toy around with him as they were his past teachers
orochimaru wanted to mess around with hiruzen mentally
hiruzen didnt fight the real hashirama or tobirama just versions controlled by orochimaru

thats basically giving someone a naruto gave and you play tenten vs pain and ten ten wins and that reason gives you tenten>pain

no its not them fighting since they had no control over what they were doing if they were being controlled like kabuto did

then yes they lost or drew rather that fight fairly
or how madara is like atm with full control over what they are doing ..then hiruzen 2 minutes will be dead ( but the reason that didnt happen is because hashirama and tobirama were pure ..they wouldnt fight for orochimaru if they had control they would fight against him and undo edo tensei) so hence why oro had to take full control to make sure that didnt happen thus that led to his demise ... because of the way he was being big headed and basically being stupid

 

[KamuiShiryu]

i don't understand how orochimaru turning them into killing mechines means they were toying with him....... last time i knew killing mechines means they want to kill not toy with them..... but u can believe what you want

THE FACT IS
kishi stated in 3 of his databooks that 3rd was said to be the strongest.....
in part 2 kishi stated that the third fought two fully powered edos......

that alone is enough proof for me to say the third was stronger then the 1st

 

[LegendaryAce]

i don't understand how orochimaru turning them into killing mechines means they were toying with him....... last time i knew killing mechines means they want to kill not toy with them..... but u can believe what you want

THE FACT IS
kishi stated in 3 of his databooks that 3rd was said to be the strongest.....
in part 2 kishi stated that the third fought two fully powered edos......

that alone is enough proof for me to say the third was stronger then the 1st

what you dont understand is How they are controlled affects how strong they are in a fight... if orochimaru ordered them to stand there and die .. does that mean they were weak? no its a mistake on orochimaru's behalf ... and thats what he did he made them stand there while hiruzen prepared RDS because he was curious what justu hiruzen was going to use... he ssays " go on show it to me " or something like that meaning he didnt want to kill him AND THE MANGA STATES... " are you going to let them kill you bit by bit while they toy with you" look at the manga where hiruzen starts caughing blood ... isnt that enough proof they werent going all out on him? .. i dont understand how you overlook that at all? and the fact they were being controlled 100% means even if they were the strongest be it rikudou sennin or who ever .. if i controlled them without knowing how they fought or what they think like ...its my fault they become weaker... because i dont really know what iam doing just going randomly that applies abit to orochimaru he didnt know all their moves and its safe to say he didnt know how they faught like ... and orochimaru focuses on mind rape... so he doesnt really go all out unless needed the only time orochimaru got serious what when hiruzen was taking his hands with RDS ...look at that fight carefully he stands there 70% of the time talking and laughing...and the edos attack 1 by 1 not full on ...sometimes they stood there doing nothing like :

when hiruzen lost hope and was on the floor crying ...they could have killed him there
when hiruzen was caught by BOD they could have killed him...with a kunai even but they chose taijutsu just to toy around

come on i know you love hiruzen and i know i might be siding with hashirama too much but just think about what can hiruzen do to hurt hashirama? if u answer this ill drop all this and admit hiruzen is the strongest noone has answered that before they evade that question... hashirama>minato>hiruzen ...not going to start with minato but yeah

 

[KamuiShiryu]

what you dont understand is How they are controlled affects how strong they are in a fight... if orochimaru ordered them to stand there and die .. does that mean they were weak? no its a mistake on orochimaru's behalf ... and thats what he did he made them stand there while hiruzen prepared RDS because he was curious what justu hiruzen was going to use... he ssays " go on show it to me " or something like that meaning he didnt want to kill him AND THE MANGA STATES... " are you going to let them kill you bit by bit while they toy with you" look at the manga where hiruzen starts caughing blood ... isnt that enough proof they werent going all out on him? .. i dont understand how you overlook that at all? and the fact they were being controlled 100% means even if they were the strongest be it rikudou sennin or who ever .. if i controlled them without knowing how they fought or what they think like ...its my fault they become weaker... because i dont really know what iam doing just going randomly that applies abit to orochimaru he didnt know all their moves and its safe to say he didnt know how they faught like ... and orochimaru focuses on mind rape... so he doesnt really go all out unless needed the only time orochimaru got serious what when hiruzen was taking his hands with RDS ...look at that fight carefully he stands there 70% of the time talking and laughing...and the edos attack 1 by 1 not full on ...sometimes they stood there doing nothing like :

when hiruzen lost hope and was on the floor crying ...they could have killed him there
when hiruzen was caught by BOD they could have killed him...with a kunai even but they chose taijutsu just to toy around

come on i know you love hiruzen and i know i might be siding with hashirama too much but just think about what can hiruzen do to hurt hashirama? if u answer this ill drop all this and admit hiruzen is the strongest noone has answered that before they evade that question... hashirama>minato>hiruzen ...not going to start with minato but yeah

well can't i say the same thing show me where kishi changed his mind and said the 1st was the strongest... cus i haven't seen anywhere and i've said it b4 i dont care to change ur mind cus i'm agreeing with kishi not you... i rather have 1 person kishi agree with me then 1000 hashi fanboys .....

i do agree they could have killed hiruzen when he was in BOD but hiruzen also would have ended it at the start of the fight with the tags......... we already saw emna can counter mokuton...... with ease we only saw a couple of jutsu's hiruzen used with limited chakra