[FEAR] What is True Speed: Body Flicker Analyzed

FearxDeath

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Before we start I just want to point out that if your a Naruto Fan Boy please, I beg you, leave it at the door. If Naruto was as great a ninja as you think he is then why doesnt he just solo the juubito and everyone else in the Narutoverse all at once...
IMO he is Hokage level, but thats about it, I would rank him below Minato and Itachi and alot of other Ninja, above kakashi though. BTW he didnt solo the kages, he fought them with the help of the shinobi alliance.

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Alot of people seem to be under the impression that KCM Naruto is likely to be the fastest person in the Naruto-verse, which could be possible but in the following scan I would like to bring us down to a little place I like to call reality were we can look at some facts and decide for ourselves what speed truly is.


Introduction of True Speed​

Let us see what makes people think KCM Naruto is about as fast as it gets:

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Now as you can see during those scans there are several references to the Yellow Flash, Naruto's Dad, comparing him to Naruto as far as there speed goes. Raikage blatently says that there is only 1 person to even dodge his Super Speed Punch other than Naruto and that is Minato.

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Now as you can see Minato dodging the Fourths Super Speed punch doesnt have much to do with real speed as much as it has to do with the Hiraishin. But nonetheless the 3rd still referred to it as speed, but perhaps what he meant wasnt physical speed but more so the speed of Minato's reflex's. Much like when Rock Lee said:

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Simply the fact that Minato's was fast enough to see the attack and react was a feat enough!


What is Speed​

Now if Naruto dodging the Raikages attack wasnt pure speed then what could it have been, well its a technique we all know of:

The Body Flicker Technique referred to in this scan as "Teleportation"

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The Body Flicker Jutsu aka Shunshin No Jutsu, is when a ninja super charges there body with chakra allowing them to move at very high speeds for a short period of time. The faster the person, the more distance they can cover while using it. Even Shisui was so skilled at this that he was known as Shisui of the mirage, or shisui of the Body Flicker. [ ]

And it is because of the Kyubi's potent Chakra that when Naruto uses the Body Flicker technique, he as able to move alot faster than normal, with speeds compared to Minato.

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One last thing I want to comment on is the fact that the sign of someone being skilled with the body flicker technique is the distance they can cover during the same span of time as others. For Instance, compare Kabuto's Body Flicker and even Sasuke's to the distance Minato covered with his body flicker technique.

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It should be noted that Shunshin speed is also related to ones speed. Like I said before ones speed and skill with Shunshin allows you to move a further distance during the same short period of time as others, with this in mind if someone could move 100ft in 2 seconds and another person could move 200ft in 2 seconds, then it stands to reason that the 2nd person can move 100ft in 1second, thus moving faster than the first person. This is reflected in the Scan above where Minato has already arrived by the time the other Hokages arrive on the scene.

But keep in mind that at speeds this high, real speed matters less and less and what really starts to matter is True Speed.


What is True Speed​

But the Body Flicker itself is not what real speed is, the technique itself is something all ninja make good use of and generally speaking they all move at the same rate when doing it, more or less.

Now True speed is the reflex, the split second it takes for you to see the attack coming and then dodge it. That is what I believe is being refered to when ninja speak of speed and how fast a ninja is. Its not the fact that they dodged the attack, it is the fact that they only had less than a second to see the attack coming and then react accordingly.

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Think about it like this, if you were a boxer, and there was a 2 second delay between what you saw and when you can move, or better yet if it took 2 seconds for what you saw to reach your eyes, then frankly speaking, it doesnt matter how fast you are, you would still get hit by everything that comes your way.

Now what if everyone around you had that 2 second delay, and you were the only one without it? Now you may not be as fast as the others, but thanks to your quick reflexes you are border line untouchable... And that is what we have here.

Shunshin basically puts everyone, more or less, on an even playing ground. And it is your quick reflexes that sets you apart from the others.

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Not a scratch on him!


Conclusion​

I think the community as a whole should change the way they judge and gauge a ninja's "speed", dont get me wrong there are still some ninja's that are flat out faster than other ninja's. But when we move into the category of Body Flicker the thing isnt who is faster than who but rather how fast ones reflexes are.

Enjoy the Read!​
 
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earthsoul

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Good job with the analysis and yeah, I agree with your theory too,speed isn't just in body movement alone but thought and body movent in split seconds..
 

B00m

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Rock Lee said all I needed to hear:gai:

Nice thread, keeping it structured and scan heavy.
 

Bogard

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Nice thread. You say the exact same thing i'm explaining to others while debating. There is reflexive speed and shunshin(which is a ninjutsu). There are level of shunshin though that you seemingly didn't mention on OP
 

FearxDeath

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Glad you all liked my thread!!!



Nice thread. You say the exact same thing i'm explaining to others while debating. There is reflexive speed and shunshin(which is a ninjutsu). There are level of shunshin though that you seemingly didn't mention on OP

What levels of shunshin were you referring to as I am not sure. The closest thing I could think of in that regard is the distance traveled with Shunshin which seems to increase based on the users speed and skill with the jutsu.

Could you be referring to lighting release shunshin, water release etc... I didnt bring that into the thread as It didnt seem to add anything to the point I was trying to make. If that isnt what you were talking about I would love to know what you meant as I still dont know it all... yet.

Also I would prefer if you could provide a scan, if your right I want to add it to the thread and a scan would help validate things.
 

Bogard

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Glad you all liked my thread!!!





What levels of shunshin were you referring to as I am not sure. The closest thing I could think of in that regard is the distance traveled with Shunshin which seems to increase based on the users speed and skill with the jutsu.

Could you be referring to lighting release shunshin, water release etc... I didnt bring that into the thread as It didnt seem to add anything to the point I was trying to make. If that isnt what you were talking about I would love to know what you meant as I still dont know it all... yet.

Also I would prefer if you could provide a scan, if your right I want to add it to the thread and a scan would help validate things.
Tobirama says his level of shunshin pales in comparison to Minato's
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Yamato says that (that overwhelmed Kisame btw) was not on Minato's level
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Databook says Sasuke's shunshin is godlike

So it suggest there is a difference in level between Shunshins
 

FearxDeath

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Tobirama says his level of shunshin pales in comparison to Minato's
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Yamato says that (that overwhelmed Kisame btw) was not on Minato's level
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Databook says Sasuke's shunshin is godlike

So it suggest there is a difference in level between Shunshins

Well that is just difference in general, I think I did touch on the fact that not all shunshin were the same but as you implied I could have elaborated a bit more. I was just skeptical of saying some peoples shunshin could be faster than others because then we get RIGHT back into a speed debate and whose shunshin is faster and thats the exact things I am arguing against LOL

Actually I do speak on this a bit in my thread. I said that the better you are with shunshin the more distance you can cover in the same amount of time as others. Which corelates to shunshins having different speeds because if one person can go 100 feet in 2 seconds and another person can go 200ft in 2 seconds then it stands to reason that the 2nd person can go 100ft in 1 second, thus he is faster. But again I want to move away from this whole speed debate not steer right towards it x__x, plus at speeds that fast speed becomes less and less of a factor and reflexes become more and more of a factor. I think we can both agree on that much lol
 

Nous

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As always, excellent job! =D
 

FearxDeath

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This thread needs more views

Meh, Good threads often go unnoticed, while not so good threads get 1000+ views x__x, I stopped fighting it a long time ago... Such is the way of NB. *tear*
 
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valandil988

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Soooo can naruto even do the shunshin? :erm: Does he even know the jutsu? Or has he being relying on natural speed all this time? As in without super charging his body for specific fast movement. IE We have we seen what Naturo's shunshin is like? Or has he being using it all the time? I've never seen him do anything like that in his base self. :/ We've seen him move with Shunshin-like movement but is that just his regular movement speed reaching shunshin like lvls?

By your own argument shouldn't Naruto have greater reflexes that Minato? For Naruto to even function in BM or KCM without I donno smashing into walls and tripping over random rocks he has to have godly reflexes to actually make the speed he has useful and not a hindrance to his movements (IE when he smashed his leg into the wall).

Thats what makes me feel like Minato's KCM mode is such an ass-pull you'd have to practice your movements with it even just a little to make sure your used to it. Then again we haven't seen him use shunshin while using the KCM mode just Hiraishin which isnt high speed movement.
 

narutodrama

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Good point, it is apsolutely true that if you dont have fast reflexes that you no matter how fast you can move, you will still be hit.
Also i want to add, that in highly skilled martial arts figthers, boxers, special forces ect. Have specific training to improve their own reflexes, because besides phisical readines reflex is the most important thing. Everything happens in a split second.
But there is a exact limit to it, scientists sayd that it takes exactly 0.3 seconds for the best of the best to see, transmit that info to the brain, process it, and the brain sending orders to body parts.

Example, you are in a gun duel, it takes you exactly 0.3 seconds (thats the apsolute maximum of reflex speed you cant go faster), to see the other guy starting to take his gun, it takes exactly 0,3 sec from that moment until the moment you "begin" to move your body accordingly.

Btw for the average untrained person it takes about 0.6 to 0.8 seconds for see-reaction moment.
 

FearxDeath

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Soooo can naruto even do the shunshin? :erm: Does he even know the jutsu? Or has he being relying on natural speed all this time? As in without super charging his body for specific fast movement. IE We have we seen what Naturo's shunshin is like? Or has he being using it all the time? I've never seen him do anything like that in his base self. :/ We've seen him move with Shunshin-like movement but is that just his regular movement speed reaching shunshin like lvls?

By your own argument shouldn't Naruto have greater reflexes that Minato? For Naruto to even function in BM or KCM without I donno smashing into walls and tripping over random rocks he has to have godly reflexes to actually make the speed he has useful and not a hindrance to his movements (IE when he smashed his leg into the wall).

Thats what makes me feel like Minato's KCM mode is such an ass-pull you'd have to practice your movements with it even just a little to make sure your used to it. Then again we haven't seen him use shunshin while using the KCM mode just Hiraishin which isnt high speed movement.

1) Naruto's base speed is quite normal, if not below average in my opinion. With KCM it goes up a bit but it is still not as fast as I believe people give it credit for. I would say Sasuke's base speed and even Rock Lee's are higher than Naruto. Now his Shunshin is fast, based on the scan we can even see that it is near the speed of Minato's Shunshin, which we already know that be pretty fast.

2) The thing about moving while in shunshin is that not just your body is speed up, common sense would indicate that your sense are too or else everyone would be running into things. Think about it like this, using Shunshin is the equivalent of Rock Lee taking off his leg weights. You dont need training to adjust to no longer having leg weights, it may feel a bit weird at first, but the body adjusts pretty quickly.

3) All in all I would rate Naruto's reflexes themselves at being near Minato's level. if I had to rate the 4 ninjas I talk about in the thread I would say it goes from 3rd Raikage, 4th Raikage, Minato, Naruto. The 3rd being the fastest reflex and Naruto being the lowest of the 4.
 

thegame

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Sigh, this again. Why do you just assume Naruto is using the body flicker technique? Well here is something for you: He isn't.
The body flicker technique is very simple and well described by both databooks and manga. First of all it takes a hand seal to use it. Not once will you find Naruto doing this hand seal, before moving "super fast" in KCM or BM.
It looks very fast, because the user uses some kind of diversion to keep the viewers vision disturbed, so that he realizes the user is moving a lot later. So the body flicker technique, is not really about speed alone either...

Now, I am unaware if this affects your thread, since I did not read it that thoroughly, but according to the conclusion, Naruto is still the fastest, since he isn't using it...
I could find the evidence of people using it with hand seals, however, I am too tired for that. But go look for the moment, where Hanzou escapes from Nagato after Yahiko was killed. He says the name of the technique and uses the hand seal, which has been seen countless of times... Well, you probably have it somewhere in your many pictures from the manga.
 

FearxDeath

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Sigh, this again. Why do you just assume Naruto is using the body flicker technique? Well here is something for you: He isn't.
The body flicker technique is very simple and well described by both databooks and manga. First of all it takes a hand seal to use it. Not once will you find Naruto doing this hand seal, before moving "super fast" in KCM or BM.
It looks very fast, because the user uses some kind of diversion to keep the viewers vision disturbed, so that he realizes the user is moving a lot later. So the body flicker technique, is not really about speed alone either...

Now, I am unaware if this affects your thread, since I did not read it that thoroughly, but according to the conclusion, Naruto is still the fastest, since he isn't using it...
I could find the evidence of people using it with hand seals, however, I am too tired for that. But go look for the moment, where Hanzou escapes from Nagato after Yahiko was killed. He says the name of the technique and uses the hand seal, which has been seen countless of times... Well, you probably have it somewhere in your many pictures from the manga.

Well since your main and only premise here is that Shunshin requires a hand seal let me shut you down right there. It may require handseals, but to be completely honest no jutsu require hand seals, hand seals are just for chakra control, without them you may end up using alot more chakra for said jutsu than is needed. This is why ninja that are more skilled with controlling chakra and using a jutsu require less and less seals to be formed in order to use the jutsu. A good example of this would be:

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As you can see in the above the water dragon missile required 44 seals to be used, but below Tobirama used the same technque with only 1 seal.

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Now secondly you claim that the Handbook says that the jutsu requires a seal? I just checked and it doesnt mention that at all, here is a link so you can check for yourself. [ ]

Did I miss anything?
 
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OWanime

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nice thread xd I agree even when minato saved his baby he had to be quick xd
 

The ProphecY

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Such an agreeable thread... Can't really think of something to add or contradict any of your statements. Good job as always:)
 

AzR

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if to put it in a formula... reaction time = shunshin speed.. its proportional

the faster shunshin you use, the faster reaction time needed to respond to threats..

if he's gifted in reaction time, he can increase his shunshin until certain limits of his reaction.. but increase shunshin anymore than his limit aka reaction time,it definitely be a drawback for the user(because of what lee said)

you think?
 
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