[FEAR] Truth Behind the Hyuga ~ Princess Kaguya

[Seventh Sama]

Why so salty bro? Do you think what you just said is the slight bit persuasive? Its obvious that I disagree with you so do you think simply stating your opinion is going to change anything? No I get it... You just dont care. Ignorance is bliss am I right?




^__^ Nice to be debating with you again Derp.

To start off I acknowledge the skeptism of Kakashi's words in my thread. But I would argue what you are misunderstanding to be an example of hearsay is merely a relaxed for of dialougue. The most you can deduct from it is that what he is saying has not been proven but is rumored to be the case. And I state that very thing in my thread. I then go on the say that I believe that there is some truth to what he said and continue from there, whether you agree or not is not the case as it has no real relevance to the main point of my thread which revolves around Kaguya's surname.

Look at it this way... What are the Origins of the Uchiha? The Sage, The Sage is a member of the Otsutsuki Clan who's name was changed to the Hyuga. Therefore the Uchiha's Origins (The Sage) Lie within (Come from) the Hyuga Clan (The Otsutsuki Clan). It is not saying that the Uchiha is merely an offshoot of the Hyuga, rather it is saying that the Uchiha's lineage can be traced back to the Hyuga.

I also address the Rinnegans mutation in my thread as well. In it I state the difference between a statment rooted in fact and one rooted in mystery. Now we all know the Rinnegan is mysterious, only 4 People have used it and 3 of those people shared the same Rinnegan. And none of them ever spoke about it, so anyone claiming to know anything about it would more than likely find themselves wrong about it. But the Uchiha/Hyuga are not the same, they are fairly open Clans who's records can be looked over and members can be questioned. They are no where near as secretive as the Rinnegan that no one knows anything about. So for someone to say that because Kakashi didnt know anything about something he shouldnt have known anything about (The Rinnegan) he therefore must not know anything about something he should know something about, is just bad logic.

you believed that Hiruzen can use onmyondou :|

 

[FearxDeath]

you believed that Hiruzen can use onmyondou :|

I said it was a possibility, which it is. And what your doing by bringing it up is a weak tactic called an Ad Hominem. Instead of attacking my argument you attack me by insinuating that if I am so stupid as to believe that it is possible for Hiuzen to use Onmyoudon then everything else I put out must therefore be discredited.

And thats fine and OK if thats what you believe. I just wanted to let you know that it is illogical. And with that I lose respect for you and interest in carry this conversation any further. If your main problem with this thread is that I made a thread months ago that you disagreed with, then there really is nothing I can do for you.

 

[ShadowBandit]

Nice Theory, probably not going to come to fruition. With the end of the manga near, I doubt we hear much from the Hyugas anymore, they basically had there whole clan moment when Neji died. But nice work anyways.

 

[Xāvî1]

Very Legitmate

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Why so salty bro? Do you think what you just said is the slight bit persuasive? Its obvious that I disagree with you so do you think simply stating your opinion is going to change anything? No I get it... You just dont care. Ignorance is bliss am I right?




^__^ Nice to be debating with you again Derp.

To start off I acknowledge the skeptism of Kakashi's words in my thread. But I would argue that what you are misunderstanding to be an example of hearsay is merely a relaxed for of dialougue. The most you can deduct from it is that what he is saying has not been proven but is rumored to be the case. And I state that very thing in my thread. I then go on the say that I believe that there is some truth to what he said and continue from there, whether you agree or not is not the case as it has no real relevance to the main point of my thread which revolves around Kaguya's surname.

Look at it this way... What are the Origins of the Uchiha? The Sage, The Sage is a member of the Otsutsuki Clan who's name was changed to the Hyuga. Therefore the Uchiha's Origins (The Sage) Lie within (Come from) the Hyuga Clan (The Otsutsuki Clan). It is not saying that the Uchiha is merely an offshoot of the Hyuga, rather it is saying that the Uchiha's lineage can be traced back to the Hyuga.

I also address the Rinnegans mutation in my thread as well. In it I state the difference between a statment rooted in fact and one rooted in mystery. Now we all know the Rinnegan is mysterious, only 4 People have used it and 3 of those people shared the same Rinnegan. And none of them ever spoke about it, so anyone claiming to know anything about it would more than likely find themselves wrong about it. But the Uchiha/Hyuga are not the same, they are fairly open Clans who's records can be looked over and members can be questioned. They are no where near as secretive as the Rinnegan that no one knows anything about. So for someone to say that because Kakashi didnt know anything about something he shouldnt have known anything about (The Rinnegan) therefore he must not know anything about something he should know something about (Uchihas Origins), is just bad logic.

Well kind sir, my personal position on the matter is that the Ōtsutsuki change their surname to Uzumaki rather than Hyūga, given the mythology behind Nunoboko (Amanonuboko in Japanese Myth) which created Onogoro Island and Japan, which is literally the Island in the Naruto Whirlpools where the creator spouse Izanami and Izanagi relocated to in Earth coming from their heavenly abode, so in lieu of this myth, when Hagoromo created/recreated the world with Nunoboko, he and the Ōtsutsukis relocated to the newly created Island in the Whirlpools: Uzu no Kuni, and only then did they assume the Uzumaki surname inspired from the Whirlpools of their new home.

As for the Hyūgas, I don't really know how they fit in all of this, it is up to the author to decide, so we must respectfully agree to disagree then regarding this matter.

 

[FearxDeath]

Well kind sir, my personal position on the matter is that the Ōtsutsuki change their surname to Uzumaki rather than Hyūga, given the mythology behind Nunoboko (Amanonuboko in Japanese Myth) which created Onogoro Island and Japan, which is literally the Island in the Naruto Whirlpools where the creator spouse Izanami and Izanagi relocated to in Earth coming from their heavenly abode, so in lieu of this myth, when Hagoromo created/recreated the world with Nunoboko, he and the Ōtsutsukis relocated to the newly created Island in the Whirlpools: Uzu no Kuni, and only then did they assume the Uzumaki surname inspired from the Whirlpools of their new home.

As for the Hyūgas, I don't really know how they fit in all of this, it is up to the author to decide, so we must respectfully agree to disagree then regarding this matter.

I am quite familiar with your take on the ancestry of it and account for it. I believe:

After the Juubi was released and then sealed there were 2 Factions left of the Otsutsuki. The majority of them stayed where they were changing there names to the Hyuga. And a small faction that journeyed with the Sage teaching ninjutsu and peace to the world. When the Sage did settle down in the Land of Whirlpools he did so with the newly formed Clan made up of Him and the Small faction that journeyed with him, they named themselves the Uzumaki as their old name "Otsutsuki" paid homage to a great Evil. Later on when the Hyuga heard news that the descendants of the Sage were creating their own nation they migrated to Konoha and joined them.

Everything fits together perfectly and makes perfect sense.

 

[Turson]

Kakashi merely made a false assumption back in part one:

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the character in question (Kakashi) was not making a definitive statement but rather working on hearsay and speculations (Kakashi: "They Say...") therefore the validity of his statement is questionable.

Kakashi said that the origins of the Uchiha Clan lie (come from) with the Hyuuga Clan which implies that the Uchihas are descendants of the Hyuugas making the Uchiha (based on Kakashi's hearsay info) merely an off-shoot clan of the Hyūgas. Already Kakashi's statement is contradicting the Manga since the descendants of the Elder Son were said to be Uchihas:

Spoiler

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Here is Kakashi again saying erroneous things based on wrong assumptions:

Spoiler

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This, basically. I dont understand why people still try to connect this fodder clan to Sage or Uchihas.

 

[osba]

so it went from tree to moon "worshipping"? seems to make sense but there is too little information to create a truly watertight opinion.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Nice theory!

 

[SasukexNeji]

I enjoyed the read and am ready for the conclusion.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

I love your thread please make more, cause this past week none of any threads interest except Gai going 8th gate theory but other than that, I found every thread boring as they spamming Uchiha threads everywhere that I don't give a damn.

Can't say I'm surprised since the Hyuga are most plausible theory's aside to the Uzamaki, at this point anything could be possible in the whole Sage Back stories that could unwrap the truths. However I have no hope with possibly the Hyuga being the main key points of the factor cause at this point the Uchiha and Senju always dominating the series like it always has been.

Even with so many logical theories across the fanbase, Kishimoto is insulting our intelligence. U_U

 

[valandil988]

Then where the frag did the Byakugan come from? If Uzumaki and Hyuuga are the same shouldn't they both have Dojutsu? Nah to many holes.

Its the problem I have with accepting the Uzumaki's being the same as Senju. They have not been shown to be the same via powers or blood line abilities.

I like the idea of Hyuuga's turning away from the tree towards the sun hence the name change. Its a good assumption but the main problems with it is how it fits in with your idea of their being an Otsutsuki clan schism, if this is true why don't the Hyuuga retain the same vitality as the Uzumaki why did they develop a Dojutsu? Ergo why not choose a Hyuuga to hold the Kyuubi if they are basically Uzumaki.

No the two clans are too far away in the natures of their abilities for it to make sense for there to be a common family root.

 

[Tui]

Let's not forget that it's been mentioned a few times about how the Hyuuga seal their eyes to protect the "secrets of the bayakugan". It's easy to dismiss this as merely meaning to prevent them from being stolen, however it's just as easy to say there's something more to the bayakugan.

ALSO, Kishi did say there will be Hyuuga development soon. Why does this have to simply be Neji dying? Maybe Neji dies so that Hinata is the only Hyuuga left in the Konoha group so she can take some kind of pivotal role on.

I get skepticism but simply dismissing any important role by the Hyuuga is silly willy illy nilly.

 

[FearxDeath]

UPDATE #1 HAS BEEN RELEASED, THE THREAD IS NOW OFFICIALLY COMPLETE. PLEASE READ UPDATE #1!!!

Then where the frag did the Byakugan come from? If Uzumaki and Hyuuga are the same shouldn't they both have Dojutsu? Nah to many holes.

Its the problem I have with accepting the Uzumaki's being the same as Senju. They have not been shown to be the same via powers or blood line abilities.

I like the idea of Hyuuga's turning away from the tree towards the sun hence the name change. Its a good assumption but the main problems with it is how it fits in with your idea of their being an Otsutsuki clan schism, if this is true why don't the Hyuuga retain the same vitality as the Uzumaki why did they develop a Dojutsu? Ergo why not choose a Hyuuga to hold the Kyuubi if they are basically Uzumaki.

No the two clans are too far away in the natures of their abilities for it to make sense for there to be a common family root.

Your as quick as ever lol, atleast your not making it easy for me

I explained most of this in my new Update ^__^, as far as the Uzumaki this is a error in timeline. I will post a new update addressing the Time Line ergo Update #2. Let me know if you have any other questions

Let's not forget that it's been mentioned a few times about how the Hyuuga seal their eyes to protect the "secrets of the bayakugan". It's easy to dismiss this as merely meaning to prevent them from being stolen, however it's just as easy to say there's something more to the bayakugan.

ALSO, Kishi did say there will be Hyuuga development soon. Why does this have to simply be Neji dying? Maybe Neji dies so that Hinata is the only Hyuuga left in the Konoha group so she can take some kind of pivotal role on.

I get skepticism but simply dismissing any important role by the Hyuuga is silly willy illy nilly.

<3 This is the best observation ive seen so far. The Hyuga go to great lenghts to keep their secrets, secret. Even more than the Uchiha who eyes are gotten as easily as taking candy from a baby. There is something here, I know it.

I am as upset as you are, Kishi did say that the Hyuga would get some development, which is why I predicted Another arc, but as time goes on it seems less and less likely, which is upsetting, since it is going to take atleast another arc to address all the secrets behind the Byakugan... or a well timed Hinata Flash back x__X

 

[valandil988]

Kl will have a look, (reserve this space )

Edit:

Ok read through it, mind = blown over vestigial eye inside my brain first of all. Yes it might just be retina that can react to light but still that's pretty unusual, something I didn't know. Ergo its a vestigial eye by default.

Revisited: Where did Chakra Come From

But about what you said about chakra, that people didn't "know" how to use it, I have to disagree Madara has just stated how it is the Sage planned to solve wars and create peace, through chakra. He shared his chakra with everyone allowing them to kneed their own mental and physical energies. This means that his chakra allowed them to mix their own energies to create their own chakra. Its almost like his chakra became a chakra network for them like they have a miniature mokuton bonzi tree inside them lol.

To me this statement by Madara is pretty explicit on what it means.

Regarding there being chakra BEFORE the sage I agree completely. The summons likely used Senjutsu exclusively. Ergo Kaguya was the first HUMAN to wield chakra.

The Third Eye

I agree, overall best explanation of where the Byakugan came from and how over the generations a Dojutsu can be trained and then inherited. I would rep you 10 times over for this analysis but I can't.

Edit:

Just reped every random-er in this thread still can't rep you T_T

 

[Meowazziel]

Nice, a theory about the Hyuuga.
I would like it if this explanation is given in the manga.
Good theory.

 

[adeshina365]

"Truth Behind the Hyuga ~ Princess Kaguya" aka FearxDeath continues his campaign to try and make the Hyuga relevant.

This, basically. I dont understand why people still try to connect this fodder clan to Sage or Uchihas.

Agreed.

 

[Meowazziel]

It would make sense for the Hyuuga to come from the Otsutsuki and the sage having started his own clan.
Who knows. He could have had children next to the 2 sons he created with Creation of all things (I am quite sure he used this).

 

[Tui]

I'd say a big link between Hyuuga and the Juubi tree is the mere fact they can see Chakra with their eyes. If the Juubi is the source of all Chakra wouldn't it make sense for them to worship it? (Assuming they could see the chakra in some way)

 

[iKaras]

hyuga aren't relevant to kishi anymore, end of story.

Its a shame but its practically this.