I specifically remember your name, and Every Single Time you comment on your thread you saying something ridiculous...
Will Manifestation is the Uchiha's Chakra Power? Mokuton is not a Special Chakra it is a KKG? Do you mean Will Manifestation is the Uchiha KKG? I thought it was the Sharingan? Or is Will Manifestation one of his MS abilities? Why am i even trying to make sense of this. It annoys me how wrong what your saying is.
Who said anything about Shishui? Who said anything about a Clan move? Let me make this simple with 1 question.
What makes you think that Will Manefistation is Madara's Special Move or Whatever you call it. What makes you think that, where in the manga are you getting this information or are you just making it up yourself?
Not sure if its a bad translation or not, but as i read it, it's the actual body of hashirama, sticking out of the base of the Gedo, implantet the same way as Yamato:
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As for the whole discussion concerning Black Zetsu & Chakra Rods, i think too much remains unexplained by Kishi for any1 to have a credible theory on the matter, all we know for certain is that:
Madara, Obito & Nagato were able to control other idividuals using chakra rods.
Madara & Obito can produce chakra rods from their bodies.
Madara either had Black Zetsu residing inside his body or created him right before disconnecting himself from the Gedo.
Madara can telepathically communicate & issue commands to Black Zetsu.
Who said anything about Shishui? Who said anything about a Clan move? Let me make this simple with 1 question.
What makes you think that Will Manefistation is Madara's Special Move or Whatever you call it. What makes you think that, where in the manga are you getting this information or are you just making it up yourself?
Madara isnt the one creating the Zetsu's, the Gedo is. If that was the case why would he feel the need to make 3 different kinds of Zetsu's. I do think that Madara would have had Obito killed if Obito did not follow him, but I do not believe that Madara created the Zetsu's.
Not sure if its a bad translation or not, but as i read it, it's the actual body of hashirama, sticking out of the base of the Gedo, implantet the same way as Yamato:
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As for the whole discussion concerning Black Zetsu & Chakra Rods, i think too much remains unexplained by Kishi for any1 to have a credible theory on the matter, all we know for certain is that:
Madara, Obito & Nagato were able to control other idividuals using chakra rods.
Madara & Obito can produce chakra rods from their bodies.
Madara either had Black Zetsu residing inside his body or created him right before disconnecting himself from the Gedo.
Madara can telepathically communicate & issue commands to Black Zetsu.
1) I must have forgotten to delete that part, I will do it now. Ignore it.
2) What no? Madara placed his will, the Black Rods, into Obito way back when he saved him from the rock. This is what Madara meant when he said "One day you will repay me." Madara Channels his chakra into the Black Rods the same way Nagato channels his Chakra into the Black Rods to control the 6 paths of pain. And so when Madara channeled his Chakra into Obito to force him to use Rinne Tensie Hashirama said "He is controlling him with his Chakra."
He was not familiar with the technique, it was just pretty obvious. He found out the same way Konoha found out that Nagato was controlling the Paths of Pain from a distance.
So the Gedo is the Naruto version of the Hougyoku is that what your are saying -_-? No, its not that its automatically responding to Madara and Obito's will, its that Madara implanted his will into them.
The manga implies that Madara directly created the black rods with the Rinnegan. Its also safe to assume that anyone wielding the Rinnegan can create more of the black rods. Madara sabotaged Obito by implanting additional rods into his Zetsu casing that kept him alive. This meant his emotions would be influenced by the rods and likely helped spur his feats of rage.
The manga also implies that the different forms of Zetsu we saw are simply a result of chance. The Mazou was only ever connected to Madara, no one else, thus the different forms of Zetsu that arose were all random. You say that that 3rd, unknown, Zetsu was a result of Shisui being connected to it...... but the Zetsu was forming when Madara was still alive -_-. So there is no way its a result of Shisui's DNA when he would have only been connected to it after Madara's death.
Btw, I don't know if you meant to imply this or not, but the original image you posted of Spiral Zetsu directly implies that Obito's Zetsu casing was made from the original Spiral Zetsu. Since half his body was missing, it was likely used to rescue Obito.
So the Gedo is the Naruto version of the Hougyoku is that what your are saying -_-? No, its not that its automatically responding to Madara and Obito's will, its that Madara implanted his will into them.
The manga implies that Madara directly created the black rods with the Rinnegan. Its also safe to assume that anyone wielding the Rinnegan can create more of the black rods. Madara sabotaged Obito by implanting additional rods into his Zetsu casing that kept him alive. This meant his emotions would be influenced by the rods and likely helped spur his feats of rage.
The manga also implies that the different forms of Zetsu we saw are simply a result of chance. The Mazou was only ever connected to Madara, no one else, thus the different forms of Zetsu that arose were all random. You say that that 3rd, unknown, Zetsu was a result of Shisui being connected to it...... but the Zetsu was forming when Madara was still alive -_-. So there is no way its a result of Shisui's DNA when he would have only been connected to it after Madara's death.
Btw, I don't know if you meant to imply this or not, but the original image you posted of Spiral Zetsu directly implies that Obito's Zetsu casing was made from the original Spiral Zetsu. Since half his body was missing, it was likely used to rescue Obito.
Its always nice to have a debate with you Floydical, I digress.
1) Your entire 2nd paragraph is premised by the idea that the manga imply Madara created the Black Rods himself. Can you provide the scan in the manga that implies this?
2) Madara said that someone with Senju & Uchiha DNA can control the Gedo, so why would he need to go the extra mile in putting his will into it? [
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3) The Gedo was connected to the Mindless Hashirama from which Madara channels its powers through, Madara, and Obito directly or through proxy. I deleted the parts about Shishui, or atleast I thought I did, I will go back through the thread and delete it if I didnt. That was meant to be delete prior to the thread was even posted.
4) I have no clue what your trying to say in your last paragraph.
Its always nice to have a debate with you Floydical, I digress.
1) Your entire 2nd paragraph is premised by the idea that the manga imply Madara created the Black Rods himself. Can you provide the scan in the manga that implies this?
2) Madara said that someone with Senju & Uchiha DNA can control the Gedo, so why would he need to go the extra mile in putting his will into it? [
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3) The Gedo was connected to the Mindless Hashirama from which Madara channels its powers through, Madara, and Obito directly or through proxy. I deleted the parts about Shishui, or atleast I thought I did, I will go back through the thread and delete it if I didnt. That was meant to be delete prior to the thread was even posted.
4) I have no clue what your trying to say in your last paragraph.
1) Like I said, its implied, not proven. To help prove my point:
- Madara manually protrudes the black rod from the Mazou IMPLYING he has direct control of it.
- Madara says the rod is an extension of his will, meaning it is directly related to his chakra.
- Madara touches a normal WHITE zetsu and turns him into a black manifestation of himself, IMPLYING he created this new Black Zetsu in a very similar way he creates the Black rods.
2) What? I its not that he was putting his will into it to control it, Madara simply used the Mazou as a STORAGE CONTAINER for his black rods. Again, the manga implies that the black rods are a power of the Rinnegan and are completely independent of the Mazou. Again, this is not proven but what I feel is implied. Madara used the black rods as a way for him or others to be connected to and control the Mazou. They were also a method of controlling dead bodies as Pain did and Madara likely developed. All this could have been written on the Uchiha Tablet. Again, its not that Madara put the rods in the Mazou to control it, it was a storage device. Madara also manually put rods in Obito's surrogate body to influence his chakra and emotions, again what I think is implied.
3) Won't go back into the proxy theory.
4)
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In this image we see a half body of Spiral. All I was saying is that this image implies that Obito's surrate body was made from this particular spiral Zetsu clone.
1) Like I said, its implied, not proven. To help prove my point:
- Madara manually protrudes the black rod from the Mazou IMPLYING he has direct control of it.
- Madara says the rod is an extension of his will, meaning it is directly related to his chakra.
- Madara touches a normal WHITE zetsu and turns him into a black manifestation of himself, IMPLYING he created this new Black Zetsu in a very similar way he creates the Black rods.
2) What? I its not that he was putting his will into it to control it, Madara simply used the Mazou as a STORAGE CONTAINER for his black rods. Again, the manga implies that the black rods are a power of the Rinnegan and are completely independent of the Mazou. Again, this is not proven but what I feel is implied. Madara used the black rods as a way for him or others to be connected to and control the Mazou. They were also a method of controlling dead bodies as Pain did and Madara likely developed. All this could have been written on the Uchiha Tablet. Again, its not that Madara put the rods in the Mazou to control it, it was a storage device. Madara also manually put rods in Obito's surrogate body to influence his chakra and emotions, again what I think is implied.
3) Won't go back into the proxy theory.
4)
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In this image we see a half body of Spiral. All I was saying is that this image implies that Obito's surrate body was made from this particular spiral Zetsu clone.
1) You said that the Rinnegan allows you to summon the Black Rods, you keep saying the Manga implies this, yet your only evidence shows that Madara can Create/Summon said Rods. Nothing shows that this is granted by the Rinnegan. And even at that the Question is raised as to why Nagato and Obito, both with Rinnegans, cant recreate this feat.
2) You stating the Manga Imples This or That to me is just a way of dancing around the fact that the Manga does not directly suggest or state what you are claiming. Now I think to a certain extent even you have to admit we are getting into conjecture here. Me and you are both looking at the same events and seeing different things, and since conjecture by definition cannot be proved, we should agree to disagree.
3) Mindless Hashirama was connected to the Gedo that is a Fact. As for Obito it can be assumed that he was. Or as you would say, it was implied.
4) Or it could imply, much like some of the Zetsu's we see in the background, that the Zetsu's havent finished forming yet. They dont just pop up, they grow until they are completed.
1) You said that the Rinnegan allows you to summon the Black Rods, you keep saying the Manga implies this, yet your only evidence shows that Madara can Create/Summon said Rods. Nothing shows that this is granted by the Rinnegan. And even at that the Question is raised as to why Nagato and Obito, both with Rinnegans, cant recreate this feat.
2) You stating the Manga Imples This or That to me is just a way of dancing around the fact that the Manga does not directly suggest or state what you are claiming. Now I think to a certain extent even you have to admit we are getting into conjecture here. Me and you are both looking at the same events and seeing different things, and since conjecture by definition cannot be proved, we should agree to disagree.
3) Mindless Hashirama was connected to the Gedo that is a Fact. As for Obito it can be assumed that he was. Or as you would say, it was implied.
4) Or it could imply, much like some of the Zetsu's we see in the background, that the Zetsu's havent finished forming yet. They dont just pop up, they grow until they are completed.
I'll try to keep my response short because I have come to realize that you are even more stubborn than I am when it comes to debating .
1) You say that Obito and Nagato cannot create the black rods like Madara did. Yet Nagato showed direct manipulation of the rods just like Madara. He extended them from the hands of his paths and used them as weapons. He had countless numbers of smaller rods implanted and pierced into his paths bodies. He had dozens of rods that connected him to his control chair (where the commanded the paths from) and even more dozens of rods that pierced his body when the Mazou takes him over. Is it really feasible to believe that each and every one of these rods was produced by Madara only? Is it really logical to assume that Nagato was able to salvage all those black rods from what Madara produced alone? No. Its much more likely that Nagato had the ability himself to produce the rods, hence a rinnegan trait.
2) I'm using 'implied' a lot because I feel I have to in order to argue with you. You seem to cling strongly to manga evidence, which I do as well, but sometimes you have to look at strong circumstantial evidence and make logical conclusions based on that alone. If strong circumstantial evidence was never enough to convince people of truth, than a lot of guilty people would get away with grievous crimes.
3) In my opinion, Obito being connected to the statue has no real relevance to the story. Zetsu's were being produced when Madara was hooked up to the Mazou, that is the most important thing.
4) But you have to admit that the partial Spiral Zetsu looks as if its other half was torn off. If its developing normally, it wouldn't have a huge chunk out of it like that, the Zetsu would grow from its head to its feat. Again, the section of the Zetsu that is missing implies it was torn off. Not to mention this panel is being shown when Madara is explaining he attached a Zetsu body to Obito in order to save him.
I'll try to keep my response short because I have come to realize that you are even more stubborn than I am when it comes to debating .
1) You say that Obito and Nagato cannot create the black rods like Madara did. Yet Nagato showed direct manipulation of the rods just like Madara. He extended them from the hands of his paths and used them as weapons. He had countless numbers of smaller rods implanted and pierced into his paths bodies. He had dozens of rods that connected him to his control chair (where the commanded the paths from) and even more dozens of rods that pierced his body when the Mazou takes him over. Is it really feasible to believe that each and every one of these rods was produced by Madara only? Is it really logical to assume that Nagato was able to salvage all those black rods from what Madara produced alone? No. Its much more likely that Nagato had the ability himself to produce the rods, hence a rinnegan trait.
2) I'm using 'implied' a lot because I feel I have to in order to argue with you. You seem to cling strongly to manga evidence, which I do as well, but sometimes you have to look at strong circumstantial evidence and make logical conclusions based on that alone. If strong circumstantial evidence was never enough to convince people of truth, than a lot of guilty people would get away with grievous crimes.
3) In my opinion, Obito being connected to the statue has no real relevance to the story. Zetsu's were being produced when Madara was hooked up to the Mazou, that is the most important thing.
4) But you have to admit that the partial Spiral Zetsu looks as if its other half was torn off. If its developing normally, it wouldn't have a huge chunk out of it like that, the Zetsu would grow from its head to its feat. Again, the section of the Zetsu that is missing implies it was torn off. Not to mention this panel is being shown when Madara is explaining he attached a Zetsu body to Obito in order to save him.
Arguing with someone who isnt stubborn would be stroking your ego. A good debate should always contain a little bit of Stubborness and humility.
1) In regards to Nagato this is how he got those rods.
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Note the maniacal look on his face ones the Black Rods enter him, does it look familiar? it should:
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Secondly we see here Nagato shooting a Rod out of this machine, which would imply that he taken and stored many for future use, as oppose to creating them on the fly.
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I feel as though a good argument can be made that Nagato cannot create the Black Rods, rather he can store than and summon them for later use.
2) The word "Implied" is not a good replacement for evidence. Now I can appreciate proving things beyond a reasonable doubt, but thats not what we have here. Its merely you seeing something one way and claiming it to be that way when in actuality there are many other options that are just as likely. You use the word "implied" as a sleight of hand to make one look more likely than the other. Which isnt a bad thing, heck anyone who doesn't see through that ploy had no business expressing their opinion to start with.
3) Madara and the Mindless Hashirama Clone were both hooked up to the Gedo, hence why both the Black Rods/Black Zesu was created and why White Zetsu was created as well. The real important thing which you are overlooking is that the only "unique" Zetsu (Spiral Zetsu) was only created after Obito was connected to the Gedo. Even if you disagree with the conclusion of my thread even you must admit that there must be something to this?
4) You can look at it and see it that way, but if it went to Obito, which I am sure is what your implying, then why wasnt more taken? Half of Obito's entire body was destroyed, right down the middle. But the Zetsu is only missing part of its arm and what looks to be, generously speaking, parts of its head although that may just be the angle it was drawn at. All in all it seems more likely that it wasnt finished growing.
Ignoring all the inconclusive talk about Zetsu's forming behind the scenes and off camera, The only Zetsu's we have seen in the manga thus far are White Zetsu, Black Zetsu and Spiral Zetsu. To say that there are others begs the question of where are they.
Arguing with someone who isnt stubborn would be stroking your ego. A good debate should always contain a little bit of Stubborness and humility.
1) In regards to Nagato this is how he got those rods.
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Note the maniacal look on his face ones the Black Rods enter him, does it look familiar? it should:
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Secondly we see here Nagato shooting a Rod out of this machine, which would imply that he taken and stored many for future use, as oppose to creating them on the fly.
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I feel as though a good argument can be made that Nagato cannot create the Black Rods, rather he can store than and summon them for later use.
2) The word "Implied" is not a good replacement for evidence. Now I can appreciate proving things beyond a reasonable doubt, but thats not what we have here. Its merely you seeing something one way and claiming it to be that way when in actuality there are many other options that are just as likely. You use the word "implied" as a sleight of hand to make one look more likely than the other. Which isnt a bad thing, heck anyone who doesn't see through that ploy had no business expressing their opinion to start with.
3) Madara and the Mindless Hashirama Clone were both hooked up to the Gedo, hence why both the Black Rods/Black Zesu was created and why White Zetsu was created as well. The real important thing which you are overlooking is that the only "unique" Zetsu (Spiral Zetsu) was only created after Obito was connected to the Gedo. Even if you disagree with the conclusion of my thread even you must admit that there must be something to this?
4) You can look at it and see it that way, but if it went to Obito, which I am sure is what your implying, then why wasnt more taken? Half of Obito's entire body was destroyed, right down the middle. But the Zetsu is only missing part of its arm and what looks to be, generously speaking, parts of its head although that may just be the angle it was drawn at. All in all it seems more likely that it wasnt finished growing.
Ignoring all the inconclusive talk about Zetsu's forming behind the scenes and off camera, The only Zetsu's we have seen in the manga thus far are White Zetsu, Black Zetsu and Spiral Zetsu. To say that there are others begs the question of where are they.
1) I think its safe to say that yes, the rods protruding from the Mazou that hooked into Nagato were Madara's. But was there truly enough black rods stored by Madara to account for years of battles and Path manipulation that Nagato has done? I mean the shear mass of black rods that Nagato has made use of over the years seems to imply that he has a method of replenishing his reply. Like I said, I agree that the rods from the Mazou are Madara's, but Nagato logically must have methods of re-stocking the supply himself.
2) I didn't say prove things beyond a reasonable doubt, I said using circumstantial evidence to make a conviction, or in this case, agree to an argument. Don't paint me in the wrong light lol, its not a ploy. Like I said, I used imply because I was focusing on circumstantial evidence rather than facts, and I felt I couldn't over state it enough.
3) SMH. Obito was never connected to the Mazou. Madara broke a piece of a Zetsu off it and connected it to Obito. In this case, you are the one that's implying something that is not necessarily true. Spiral was being developed before Obito ever came into the picture.
4) If you still don't see that the deformed Zetsu missing half his body was not used to create Obito's android half, then I can't help you. Again, I think your thoughts on this matter are more of a stretch than mine.
1) I think its safe to say that yes, the rods protruding from the Mazou that hooked into Nagato were Madara's. But was there truly enough black rods stored by Madara to account for years of battles and Path manipulation that Nagato has done? I mean the shear mass of black rods that Nagato has made use of over the years seems to imply that he has a method of replenishing his reply. Like I said, I agree that the rods from the Mazou are Madara's, but Nagato logically must have methods of re-stocking the supply himself.
2) I didn't say prove things beyond a reasonable doubt, I said using circumstantial evidence to make a conviction, or in this case, agree to an argument. Don't paint me in the wrong light lol, its not a ploy. Like I said, I used imply because I was focusing on circumstantial evidence rather than facts, and I felt I couldn't over state it enough.
3) SMH. Obito was never connected to the Mazou. Madara broke a piece of a Zetsu off it and connected it to Obito. In this case, you are the one that's implying something that is not necessarily true. Spiral was being developed before Obito ever came into the picture.
4) If you still don't see that the deformed Zetsu missing half his body was not used to create Obito's android half, then I can't help you. Again, I think your thoughts on this matter are more of a stretch than mine.
1) Your exaggerating things slightly. You say years of path manipulation like the Black Rods are batteries that need to be replaced weekly. They are quite durable and seeing as to how the paths that attacked Hanzo are the same paths that Naruto beat its safe to assume that they didnt have to be replaced consistently. I believe that Madara left Black Rods for Nagato to use, remember that Nagato was a part of his plans from the start. And lets not discount the possibility of Black Zetsu being able to create some as well.
2) But alas we are in the realm of conjecture. Evidence for person A is not evidence for person B. On top of which what your saying is implied is murky at best. If I tell you to buy me some pants, and you ask if they should fit you, its implied that it is, so in a sense it goes without saying because it is implied. But thats not what we have in your case, because if it were we would not be having this discussion.
3) First off your saying that Zetsu is some kind of end all beat all magical healer. There has to be more to it than simply sticking Zetsu onto his body. Secondly, how can you say that Spiral Zetsu was being developed before Obito came into the picture when we first see it after Obito had already had zetsu attached to him and had been bandaged, and even then he wasnt fully developed. You cant claim what you are claiming. I mean you can claim it as a possibility, but you cant claim it as fact in order to discredit my theory.
4) Its not missing half its body
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Look at this picture, do you see how you can clearly see the Zetsu's ENTIRE Chest and Part of its left arm? Now look at Obito.
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Do you see how clearly half of his body, divided right down the middle, is composed of Zetsu. If the other Zetsu made up this portion then more of it would be gone. Think about it this way, if you have an apple that was cut in half. And you took half of another apple to replace it, you would expect half of the other apple to be gone as well, instead of 1/4 of it...
1) Your exaggerating things slightly. You say years of path manipulation like the Black Rods are batteries that need to be replaced weekly. They are quite durable and seeing as to how the paths that attacked Hanzo are the same paths that Naruto beat its safe to assume that they didnt have to be replaced consistently. I believe that Madara left Black Rods for Nagato to use, remember that Nagato was a part of his plans from the start. And lets not discount the possibility of Black Zetsu being able to create some as well.
2) But alas we are in the realm of conjecture. Evidence for person A is not evidence for person B. On top of which what your saying is implied is murky at best. If I tell you to buy me some pants, and you ask if they should fit you, its implied that it is, so in a sense it goes without saying because it is implied. But thats not what we have in your case, because if it were we would not be having this discussion.
3) First off your saying that Zetsu is some kind of end all beat all magical healer. There has to be more to it than simply sticking Zetsu onto his body. Secondly, how can you say that Spiral Zetsu was being developed before Obito came into the picture when we first see it after Obito had already had zetsu attached to him and had been bandaged, and even then he wasnt fully developed. You cant claim what you are claiming. I mean you can claim it as a possibility, but you cant claim it as fact in order to discredit my theory.
4) Its not missing half its body
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Look at this picture, do you see how you can clearly see the Zetsu's ENTIRE Chest and Part of its left arm? Now look at Obito.
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Do you see how clearly half of his body, divided right down the middle, is composed of Zetsu. If the other Zetsu made up this portion then more of it would be gone. Think about it this way, if you have an apple that was cut in half. And you took half of another apple to replace it, you would expect half of the other apple to be gone as well, instead of 1/4 of it...
I plan for this to be my last post on the matter as this has become stale for me.
1) Exaggerating? Perhaps, but I feel I have now found conclusive evidence that the Black rods are a rinnegan trait:
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Now can you logically say that on top of everything Madara did, he also was able to summon all these creatures individually, create enormous black rods for each for each of them and implant them all with these rods? I find this extremely unlikely. I don't even think Nagato did this.
We have come to accept these summons as simply part of the Rinnegan. I think its very logical to assume that the rods in these summons were always there and that these summons are exclusive to the rinnegan, essentially creations made by the SO6P with the outer path. Can you really deny that these Summons are a trait of the Rinnegan and therefore, by definition, the rods implanted in them are direct traits of the Rinnegan?
3&4) I find it increasingly ironic that you keep using the anime image when we can't trust anime as far as we can spit on it. The manga page is far more conclusive:
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The manga shows much closer to half the body missing than the anime shows. Not to mention just before the image is shown, MADARA STATES THAT HE STUCK A HASHIRAMA BODY TO HIM. This directly implies the image following his explanation is the body he used in question to stick to Obito. I'm done arguing this point, you can deny it all you like, but 90% of the base would agree with me on this I'm sure.
Unfortunately for you, there is no way for you to prove that Spiral only formed after Obito got there. We never saw the tree before Obito was rescued, so there is no way to tell when Spiral formed. I, however, think its clear that all the Zetsu forming on the tree once Obito got there, had been forming before Obito ever came into the picture.
-i believe the spiral zetsu can not manipulate all 5 elements...its hashirama's budha summining that produced it...the spiral zetsu might be strong but he isn't that powerfull to controlll the buda summoning...not even some1 like minato is able to controll it....but uchiha madara could....there has to be some1 inside spiral zetsu..i believe its the empty shell of uchiha madara sealed within obito......in other words the 2nd madara controlled both spiral zetsu and obito who were in the same body of obito...
Yeah, the black rods are an expression of chakra its not just from the Mazo. We have seen Madara produce them from his body, they are his will made manifest it seems to be something only the Rinnegan can do. Madara gifted the rods to OBITO for when he used Rikudo jutsu, IE six paths technique which he used early in the war.
Nagato however could use his own manifested rods. Giving Nagato Madara's Rods wouldn't accomplish anything, even if Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan it was Nagato' chakra that needed to move the puppets of the six paths. Hence Madara made black rods would be useless to him.
Obito could use these black rods because they were made using the Mazo not with Madara's chakra. Yes they contained Madara's will but they likely as Fear said reflected Obito's chakra hence why Obito could use them.
Obito could only create black rods it seems after he became Juubi Jin for a time. We have never seen him produce black rods before that point.
The reason Nagato could create them is likely his life long experience with the Rinnegan and little else.
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