FearxDeath
Active member
~Changes~
1) Added a New Update (Update #1)
2) Made changes to Kaguya's Origins section
3)Thread is currently finished with no foreseeable updates, Pending Proof-read and word trimming
You must be registered for see images
In this thread I will be explaining what Kaguya's background is and what I think her current plan is. Know I know its been a while since ive made a thread so just incase you forgot, grab some chips, a drink, maybe even a slice of pizza, and enjoy the read.
Introduction
Trying to understand Kaguya can be difficult because its like trying to solve a puzzle wrapped in a riddle covered by an enigma. We not only have multple stories of the events surrounding Kaguya but we also have seemingly contradicting stories.
First we have Madara (and his nonsense):
Then we have Hagaromo version:
So we have a story that is built up that sounds pretty coherrent, UNTIL:
Black Zetsu more or less spills the beans that everything we know so far has been a lie more or less concocted by him. But at the same time Black Zetsu wasnt created until right before Kaguya was sealed which means Hagaromo was alive before Black Zetsu, so it is hard to determine which person should be considered more credible in regards to conflicting statements.
For example Black Zetsu implies that Kaguya is really the Juubi and always has been, while Hagaromo implies she only became that way after eating the fruit. Personally I believe there is a bit of truth in each version with Black Zetsu being the least credible person as in each situation he stands to get the most out of embellishing the truth.
And so we begin;
First we have Madara (and his nonsense):
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Then we have Hagaromo version:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
So we have a story that is built up that sounds pretty coherrent, UNTIL:
You must be registered for see images
Black Zetsu more or less spills the beans that everything we know so far has been a lie more or less concocted by him. But at the same time Black Zetsu wasnt created until right before Kaguya was sealed which means Hagaromo was alive before Black Zetsu, so it is hard to determine which person should be considered more credible in regards to conflicting statements.
For example Black Zetsu implies that Kaguya is really the Juubi and always has been, while Hagaromo implies she only became that way after eating the fruit. Personally I believe there is a bit of truth in each version with Black Zetsu being the least credible person as in each situation he stands to get the most out of embellishing the truth.
And so we begin;
Kaguya's Origins
The most confusing thing about trying to understand Kaguya's backstory is the fact that Black Zetsu comes in and claims that she is the Juubi; Now personally I dont believe that Kaguya is Juubi, which is a term I use loosely you'll find out why later on in this section. I dont believe this simply for the fact that if it were the case we are left with a few questions:
1) Why create the world only to try and take back the Chakra from the very world you created?
2) Why wait so long before you decide to take back your chakra.
I believe that Upon eating the God Tree's Fruit she became the Jinchuriki of the God Tree but not the Jinchuriki of the Juubi. I believe the Juubi is a seperate being created by the God Tree/Kaguya much like she created Black Zetsu, in fact if Black Zetsu can be called the Physical manifestation of the Kaguya's will then the Juubi would be the manifestation of the God Tree's will.
And just as it is possible for one to be Jinchuriki of the 9 Tails and not Jinchuriki of the Juubi and vice versa although one is a part of the other and vice versa, it is also possible for one to be Jinchuriki of the Juubi and not Jinchuriki of the God Tree and vice versa.
But this tells us a very important detail, the Juubi is an incarnation of the Holy Tree. I believe they are the same being and yet they are not. There is a sort of progression where the Gedo Mazou can summon the Juubi, but it is not the Juubi, the Juubi can summon the God Tree but is not the God Tree, and the God Tree is the end of the road which has power over the Juubi and the Gedo Mazou. Kaguya who them ate its fruit becoming the Jinchuriki of the God Tree now has power over all of its lower levels, the Juubi and the Gedo Mazou. This power of possession has been passed down to her descendants.
To further explain the relationship between the God Tree, Juubi and Gedo Mazou I will qoute a section of a previous thread of mine:
Now this is something I came accross that weirded me out. Now follow me closely.
Obito Unleashes the Juubi/God Tree
Obito is defeated, Madara is revived, He starts kicking ass and taking names and all of a sudden.
Was that the Gedo ****ing Mazou? Thats kinda weird I thought that became the Juubi that is now the tree... whatever.
Wait a minute... Madara just summoned the Juubi and then absorbed it? Making him the a Jinchuriki... So then... Wait.. So what happened to the Tree? I guess it was summoned to Madara along with the Juubi since their one in the same?
NOPE!!! So then what the HELL is going on here? How can the Juubi and Holy Tree be in 2 places at once, and dont even get me started on wtf the Gedo Mazou was doing over there when we clearly saw it become the Juubi. Im so confused... but... what if.
What if they are all one being *COUGH* father, son and the holy ghost *COUGH*, who said that?. Back to what I was saying, what if the Juubi, the Holy Tree and the Mazou are all pieces of the same entity. I mean if you consider them the same thing then the question is how are they in multiple places at the same time, but if you consider them separate parts of the whole. Then it becomes possible.
That would give meaning to both Madara and Kaguya's statements:
Madara had previously absorbed the Juubi, we see the Mazou disapear near him and we can assume he took possesion over it since he is the only one with Senju + Uchiha DNA around. And he just absorbed the Tree, and thus the 3 are now 1.
To add to this we have this scan:
The sage says "And sealed it inside of US" now how can 2 people be the Jinchuriki of the same Tailed Beast at the same time? Unless they sealed different parts of the same Juubi inside of each of them?
1) Why create the world only to try and take back the Chakra from the very world you created?
2) Why wait so long before you decide to take back your chakra.
I believe that Upon eating the God Tree's Fruit she became the Jinchuriki of the God Tree but not the Jinchuriki of the Juubi. I believe the Juubi is a seperate being created by the God Tree/Kaguya much like she created Black Zetsu, in fact if Black Zetsu can be called the Physical manifestation of the Kaguya's will then the Juubi would be the manifestation of the God Tree's will.
And just as it is possible for one to be Jinchuriki of the 9 Tails and not Jinchuriki of the Juubi and vice versa although one is a part of the other and vice versa, it is also possible for one to be Jinchuriki of the Juubi and not Jinchuriki of the God Tree and vice versa.
But this tells us a very important detail, the Juubi is an incarnation of the Holy Tree. I believe they are the same being and yet they are not. There is a sort of progression where the Gedo Mazou can summon the Juubi, but it is not the Juubi, the Juubi can summon the God Tree but is not the God Tree, and the God Tree is the end of the road which has power over the Juubi and the Gedo Mazou. Kaguya who them ate its fruit becoming the Jinchuriki of the God Tree now has power over all of its lower levels, the Juubi and the Gedo Mazou. This power of possession has been passed down to her descendants.
To further explain the relationship between the God Tree, Juubi and Gedo Mazou I will qoute a section of a previous thread of mine:
The Story of the Bi-Polar Entity
Now this is something I came accross that weirded me out. Now follow me closely.
Obito Unleashes the Juubi/God Tree
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Obito is defeated, Madara is revived, He starts kicking ass and taking names and all of a sudden.
You must be registered for see images
Was that the Gedo ****ing Mazou? Thats kinda weird I thought that became the Juubi that is now the tree... whatever.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Wait a minute... Madara just summoned the Juubi and then absorbed it? Making him the a Jinchuriki... So then... Wait.. So what happened to the Tree? I guess it was summoned to Madara along with the Juubi since their one in the same?
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
NOPE!!! So then what the HELL is going on here? How can the Juubi and Holy Tree be in 2 places at once, and dont even get me started on wtf the Gedo Mazou was doing over there when we clearly saw it become the Juubi. Im so confused... but... what if.
What if they are all one being *COUGH* father, son and the holy ghost *COUGH*, who said that?. Back to what I was saying, what if the Juubi, the Holy Tree and the Mazou are all pieces of the same entity. I mean if you consider them the same thing then the question is how are they in multiple places at the same time, but if you consider them separate parts of the whole. Then it becomes possible.
That would give meaning to both Madara and Kaguya's statements:
You must be registered for see images
Madara had previously absorbed the Juubi, we see the Mazou disapear near him and we can assume he took possesion over it since he is the only one with Senju + Uchiha DNA around. And he just absorbed the Tree, and thus the 3 are now 1.
To add to this we have this scan:
You must be registered for see images
The sage says "And sealed it inside of US" now how can 2 people be the Jinchuriki of the same Tailed Beast at the same time? Unless they sealed different parts of the same Juubi inside of each of them?
Kaguya's Plot
This is quite simple and is, blatantly speaking, the only thing I could possibly come up with, First off:
As we can see in the above Kaguya seems to be interested in collecting ALL chakra and that seems to be tied to her "Plan" in some way.
But there is a duality here because she seems to need/want Naruto and Sasukes Chakra, so it stands to reason that collecting their chakra will help her complete her plan. So then what could her plan be? Simple, to collect all chakra... ALL of it. But then...
Why does she need White Zetsu's? They seem to be crucial to her plan although judging by the ninja war they are really good soldiers, and yet Black Zetsu seems to believe they are the perfect soldiers. Or perhaps they are just perfect for a specific job...And what job would that be? Collecting Chakra ofcourse. They can absorb ones chakra so perfectly and at such a small level that they can perfectly clone them.
But what chakra would be left to collect after everyone on earth has been turned into White Zetsu's? To understand the answer you must understand a few things:
1) Chakra and Lifeforce are 2 sides of the same coin. When one run outs of one they run out of the other and thus to have one is to have another. In a same you can say that they are the same thing to the point that Life Force can be best described as ones resilience to running out of Chakra, to best explain this I will qoute a section from a different thread of mine where I cover the topic in more detail:
Let me try and make sense of this through the scan it was mentioned in.
The Elder Brother(Uchiha) was gifted with Powerful Chakra's and Spiritual Energies.
The Younger Brother(Senju) was gifted with a Life Force and Physical Energies.
Now the Elder and Younger Brothers are like polar opposites, one has Spiritual Energy the other Physical, one believes peace is found through war the other through love. And thus based on that logic we can expect Life Force to be the counter part of Powerful Chakra's. So based on this:
If Powerful Chakra's is big then we can expect Life Force to be small.
if Powerful Chakra's is strong then we can expect Life Force to be potent.
With that I believe Life Force to be is the amount of Chakra required for someone to stay alive. Weird I know but we have scene it time and time again that when people push themselves to the brink they often die. Good examples of this would be Kakashi.
But Uzumaki (known for having strong Life Forces) always seem to take a licking and keep on kicking. How many times have we seen Naruto fight when he supposebly shouldn't have Chakra Left? Or the fact that a weak and fragile Nagato managed to use both Shinra Tensie to destroy Konoha and then Rinne Tensie to revive everyone in Konoha. Or Tsunade who is part Senju who healed every single person in the Village pushing her Chakra reserves to its upmost limits and yet survive?
I believe there is something to this idea.
With that explained we are lead to a the conclusion, if Life Force is the same as Chakra, and Kaguya wants all the Chakra then where could she find an abundant amount of Chakra via Life force?
Thats right, the "Spirit World" is a place that would be FILLED with life force. Not just a single generation or two like the current world would have, but thousands of generations of humans since the beginning of humanity. If she were to send her army of White Zetsus, who are surperb at absorbing chakra, into the Spirit World then she would have a nearly limitless supply of Chakra to absorb.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
As we can see in the above Kaguya seems to be interested in collecting ALL chakra and that seems to be tied to her "Plan" in some way.
You must be registered for see images
But there is a duality here because she seems to need/want Naruto and Sasukes Chakra, so it stands to reason that collecting their chakra will help her complete her plan. So then what could her plan be? Simple, to collect all chakra... ALL of it. But then...
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Why does she need White Zetsu's? They seem to be crucial to her plan although judging by the ninja war they are really good soldiers, and yet Black Zetsu seems to believe they are the perfect soldiers. Or perhaps they are just perfect for a specific job...And what job would that be? Collecting Chakra ofcourse. They can absorb ones chakra so perfectly and at such a small level that they can perfectly clone them.
You must be registered for see images
But what chakra would be left to collect after everyone on earth has been turned into White Zetsu's? To understand the answer you must understand a few things:
1) Chakra and Lifeforce are 2 sides of the same coin. When one run outs of one they run out of the other and thus to have one is to have another. In a same you can say that they are the same thing to the point that Life Force can be best described as ones resilience to running out of Chakra, to best explain this I will qoute a section from a different thread of mine where I cover the topic in more detail:
Life Force under the Light
Let me try and make sense of this through the scan it was mentioned in.
The Elder Brother(Uchiha) was gifted with Powerful Chakra's and Spiritual Energies.
The Younger Brother(Senju) was gifted with a Life Force and Physical Energies.
Now the Elder and Younger Brothers are like polar opposites, one has Spiritual Energy the other Physical, one believes peace is found through war the other through love. And thus based on that logic we can expect Life Force to be the counter part of Powerful Chakra's. So based on this:
If Powerful Chakra's is big then we can expect Life Force to be small.
if Powerful Chakra's is strong then we can expect Life Force to be potent.
With that I believe Life Force to be is the amount of Chakra required for someone to stay alive. Weird I know but we have scene it time and time again that when people push themselves to the brink they often die. Good examples of this would be Kakashi.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
But Uzumaki (known for having strong Life Forces) always seem to take a licking and keep on kicking. How many times have we seen Naruto fight when he supposebly shouldn't have Chakra Left? Or the fact that a weak and fragile Nagato managed to use both Shinra Tensie to destroy Konoha and then Rinne Tensie to revive everyone in Konoha. Or Tsunade who is part Senju who healed every single person in the Village pushing her Chakra reserves to its upmost limits and yet survive?
I believe there is something to this idea.
With that explained we are lead to a the conclusion, if Life Force is the same as Chakra, and Kaguya wants all the Chakra then where could she find an abundant amount of Chakra via Life force?
You must be registered for see images
Thats right, the "Spirit World" is a place that would be FILLED with life force. Not just a single generation or two like the current world would have, but thousands of generations of humans since the beginning of humanity. If she were to send her army of White Zetsus, who are surperb at absorbing chakra, into the Spirit World then she would have a nearly limitless supply of Chakra to absorb.
Family Origins
We all know that the Uchiha and Senju are descendants of Kaguya via Hagaromo. And in my previous thread I draw a strong link between Kaguya and the Hyuga. But I believe that there is another Clan that share enough stricking similarities with Kaguya and her ilk that they should be considered possible descendants of Kaguya via Hamura.
I digress:
1) One can point out a few similarities between Kimmimaro and Kaguya. First off they both have the same Blood line ability, Shikotsumyaku.
2) They even more importantly they both have the same zig zag part in their hair.
3) Lack of or very thin eye brows.e BTW ("Kimi" (君) is an ancient Japanese title of nobility. "Maro" (麻呂) is Japanese slang for a person with thin or shaved eyebrows; this stems from a practice used by noblemen in ancient Japan where they shaved their eyebrows.)
From that point you can even compare Kimmimaro's look to that of Hamura:
1) They have the same hair ties in the same position on their head.
2) The same facial expression and look to the point of looking very similar.
I like god do not believe in coincedence, I believe that Kishimoto has made this striking similarities for a reason which, he wanted to bring the Kaguya Clan back into the picture for a reason. Infact the name of the clan itself is named after Kaguya and so it is possible that they were part of kishi plan to begin with, and perhaps understanding them is the key to figuring things out. Which is something I will try and do in one of my updates, until then I leave you with a Scan:
I digress:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
1) One can point out a few similarities between Kimmimaro and Kaguya. First off they both have the same Blood line ability, Shikotsumyaku.
2) They even more importantly they both have the same zig zag part in their hair.
3) Lack of or very thin eye brows.e BTW ("Kimi" (君) is an ancient Japanese title of nobility. "Maro" (麻呂) is Japanese slang for a person with thin or shaved eyebrows; this stems from a practice used by noblemen in ancient Japan where they shaved their eyebrows.)
From that point you can even compare Kimmimaro's look to that of Hamura:
You must be registered for see images
1) They have the same hair ties in the same position on their head.
2) The same facial expression and look to the point of looking very similar.
I like god do not believe in coincedence, I believe that Kishimoto has made this striking similarities for a reason which, he wanted to bring the Kaguya Clan back into the picture for a reason. Infact the name of the clan itself is named after Kaguya and so it is possible that they were part of kishi plan to begin with, and perhaps understanding them is the key to figuring things out. Which is something I will try and do in one of my updates, until then I leave you with a Scan:
You must be registered for see images
Conclusion
In conclusion I believe that Kaguya's plan is to use her White Zetsu army to travel into the spirit world and absorb chakra from all of them. Thus consolidating all Chakra into one Being and bringing order for eternity.
Update #1
Kaguya's Story - Family Ties
If one pays close attention you will see certain similarities between her descendants and herself. Perhaps this is a form of foreshadowing left by Kishimoto for those who have been smart enough to figure things out.
To start off we need to understand who the main descendants of the Kaguya are. First off we have the Uchiha and the Senju who are throw aways and branch out from Hagoromo. Secondly we have the Hyuga and most importantly we have the Kaguya Clan and the Uzumaki Clan. And by understanding the meaning behind each clan we can understand their significance to Kaguya's Story, and like any story, the best place to start would be the Beginning.
In the beggining I believe that there was some truth to Madara's statement:
You must be registered for see images
The notion that Kaguya ate the Fruit in order to stop the fighting that was going on at the time, this is something that is further backed up by Hagaromo who states that she ate the fruit to stop a revolt. This act alone shows the good natured side of Kaguya as eating of the Fruit was something that was forbidden at the time, I doubt anyone knew what it would do to who ate it and so it stands to reason that she was risking everything, perhaps even her own life for a last ditch effort to try and stop a war...
Does that remind you of anyone else who risk their own life for a chance at peice?
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
I believe that Kaguya in her early life resembled the Senju Clan and even Hagaromo states that the people initially loved her (Prior to fearing her.) I believe this speaks volumes towards the fact that she followed the Path of Ashura at that time, she was peaceful, loving, and understanding and would make any risk if it could bring true peace. But in the fight between the Senju and the Uchiha we see that the Uchiha are somehow around while the Senju have somehow mysteriously disapeared. I believe that this is a foreshadowing that Kishimoto may not clarify the reason for Kaguya's change in personality and may leave it for the readers to speculate on.
And so we have the Uchiha clan, a Clan who believes that peace can only be obtained through force and control, and I dont think it is a mystery as to why the 2 Uchiha Kaguya/Black Zetsu decided to manipulate are the 2 Uchiha who have found the Senju's path to be inadequate and have strove to embody the path of Indra, one where they try to gain peace through force and control:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
After some mysterious events we see that Kaguya has now resolved to controlling the world and gaining peace through force as oppose to using understanding and love to gain peace. But much like the the Uchiha Clan this time too has passed.
Now we are left with the Kaguya Clan and the Hyuga Clan. And these 2 Clans represent Chaos and Order.
Hyuga - The hyuga represent Order, not only are they divided into a Cast system in which seals are used to keep their eyes from falling into the wrong hands. But they are also emotionally controlled.
Kaguya - The Kaguya represent Chaos, in fact their demise was meant by the fact that they charged into battle against a stronger opponent, they are the complete opposite of the Hyuga. [
You must be registered for see links
]The main thing to know about these two clans is that they are not generally interested in finding peace, instead they are content with a sort of social order. In fact one can make the assertion that there social order is better than peace and this could possible speak towards the duality of the Two brothers, where Hagaromo looked for peace, Hamura may have searched for a kind of order to stabilize that peace. I digress, with these clans whether it be through understanding or force peace isnt really on the menu.
So we have the Juubi, and what is more chaotic and destructive than a Tailed Beast? Follow me here:
You must be registered for see images
Here we see that the Juubi was an Incarnation of the God Tree who was attempting to get its power back.
You must be registered for see images
We later see that it wasnt the God Tree trying to get its power back but Kaguya, and her means for doing so, was the Juubi. But alas the Reckless beast, all brawn and no brain, was defeated by a stronger opponent leaving behind only one vestige of it. (Gedo Mazou) (Kimmimaro)
And lastly we have the only clan that still remains to this day, the Hyuga, a Clan who believes that the needs of the whole out weigh the needs of the few. There practice of control and order directly reflect Kaguya's current drive to consolidate all power/chakra in existence.
The Uzumaki who specialize in seals relfect how she was sealed I suppose.
---------------------------------------------
And in that we see how each of her descendants Clans reflect a piece of Kaguya's back story and foreshadow her current purpose.
Last edited:
