FearxDeath
Active member
I recently overhauled this thread remaking a few sections to strengthen the point I was making and adding 2 very informative Update's. I recommend everyone re-read it.
Most people would consider this to be a stupid question although it does have some merit. Let me explain it to you this way:
The main thing about these scans is that they explain that the difficulty in KKG's is using both styles at the same time... This same concept is compared to the difficulty that Naruto will have trying to learn Wind Rasengan since it too is difficult because one would have to do 2 different things at the same time, almost like looking left and right at the same time:
So what we see is that Mixed Nature types and Using the Wind Rasengan are similar in the fact that one would have to do 2 different things at the same time. But Naruto found the answer:
And here Naruto gets by this conundrum by having 1 Clone do one job while the other does the other job. Now just like the difficulty makes Wind Rasengan and Mixed Nature types similar, the solution to the problem would be similar as well. One could summon 1 Shadow Clone to control 1 Nature type and another to control the other Nature type.
But Kakashi states something very important in the last scan:
"That said it is because Naruto has Chakra and Shadow Clone that this method works... Apart from me The Fourth wouldnt be able to do it this way."
This makes sense because each Clone would require a large portion of Chakra in order to mold it and Shadow Clones split your Chakra levels in half, so using them for a technique would be wasteful, Half your chakra + the cost of using the technique just to use 1 Mixed Nature technique. Most people wont have enough Chakra to spare on such a risky maneuver.
So as you can see, this too debunks the idea of Mixed Nature types being limited only to people with KKG's.
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WARNING: Enter thread with an Open Mind.
Most people would consider this to be a stupid question although it does have some merit. Let me explain it to you this way:
Arguments from Deduction
*Skip this if you know what a Deductive Argument is*
This argument is Deductive, meaning that the way it works is that it is validated by the validation of the facts that proceed it. For instance:
1) Bob is Lactose intolerant
2) Bob drinks Milk
3) Bob will get sick
As you can see point 3) follows logically when point 1 and 2 are true. But you can argue against this by challenging point 1. Saying although Bob is Lactose intolerant he may have taken some Lactase supplements which would allow him to drink small amounts of milk without getting sick.
And so it stands that the way to disprove a deductive argument is to challenge its premises.
This argument is Deductive, meaning that the way it works is that it is validated by the validation of the facts that proceed it. For instance:
1) Bob is Lactose intolerant
2) Bob drinks Milk
3) Bob will get sick
As you can see point 3) follows logically when point 1 and 2 are true. But you can argue against this by challenging point 1. Saying although Bob is Lactose intolerant he may have taken some Lactase supplements which would allow him to drink small amounts of milk without getting sick.
And so it stands that the way to disprove a deductive argument is to challenge its premises.
Explanatory things Explained
1) We also know that Multiple people can work together to perform the same Single Jutsu (In Naruto's case he uses Clones):
2) Hiruzen can use all 5 Nature types via Clones
Therefore:
3) Hiruzen can summon 5 Clones and use them in order to mold Chakra together in order to perform a single Jutsu, Onmyoudon.
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2) Hiruzen can use all 5 Nature types via Clones
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Therefore:
3) Hiruzen can summon 5 Clones and use them in order to mold Chakra together in order to perform a single Jutsu, Onmyoudon.
Begging the Questions
So with that said we need to ask ourselves the question hiding in plain sight, which is:
Hiruzen did seem to have specific knowledge on Element types and how they would react when put together. Now I think that Hiruzen has used Onmyoudon before, but has not used the Technique Obito was currently using which was composed of 4 Elements (Fire, Water, Earth and Wind) While Onmyoudon on the other hand is composed of 5 Elements including Lightning.
Now lets take another look at something that I thought was strange:
Now some people will look at this and see "I Have the power of the Ancestor" and say, well its obviously a technique the Sage used that was Documented... and in that you would be right, but what I find interesting is this part:
The best way to elaborate on this would be in basketball terms, Youve got Micheal Jordan who is the Best Basketball player in the world and then youve got Kobe Bryant who is arguable the 2nd Best basketball player. Now everyone knows that Kobe steals alot of Micheals moves but its JUST THAT... We dont say he is using a jumpshot that is based on what Micheal did, we say he is USING Micheal Jordans Technique.
So it would make more sense for Tobirama to say "That man is using the Sage's Onmyoudon Technique" as oppose to saying he is using a technique based off of Onmyoudon. Which would imply that Onmyoudon and the Sage's Technique are not one and the same. So then where did this Onmyoudon come from? Hiruzen!
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Hiruzen did seem to have specific knowledge on Element types and how they would react when put together. Now I think that Hiruzen has used Onmyoudon before, but has not used the Technique Obito was currently using which was composed of 4 Elements (Fire, Water, Earth and Wind) While Onmyoudon on the other hand is composed of 5 Elements including Lightning.
Now lets take another look at something that I thought was strange:
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Now some people will look at this and see "I Have the power of the Ancestor" and say, well its obviously a technique the Sage used that was Documented... and in that you would be right, but what I find interesting is this part:
That man is probably using a technique based on Onmyoudon...
The best way to elaborate on this would be in basketball terms, Youve got Micheal Jordan who is the Best Basketball player in the world and then youve got Kobe Bryant who is arguable the 2nd Best basketball player. Now everyone knows that Kobe steals alot of Micheals moves but its JUST THAT... We dont say he is using a jumpshot that is based on what Micheal did, we say he is USING Micheal Jordans Technique.
So it would make more sense for Tobirama to say "That man is using the Sage's Onmyoudon Technique" as oppose to saying he is using a technique based off of Onmyoudon. Which would imply that Onmyoudon and the Sage's Technique are not one and the same. So then where did this Onmyoudon come from? Hiruzen!
Challenge
Now the best challenge to this would be the notion that only those born into certain Ninja clans can use KKGs such a mixed nature types, but to that I say this:
1) If I had said that Hiruzen could use all 5 Nature types 2 weeks ago you guys would be reacting the exact same way telling me that a ninja cant learn more than 2-3 Nature types based on Kakashi's statements. So we should keep an open mind when approaching what I am saying.
2) People in alot of different villages have been able to use the same style: Kurotsuchi (Earth), Mei (Water) and Dodia (Lightning) have all been able to use Lava Style. But they are all from different nations. So are they all related? Do they all have really really distant relatives? But we also know that KKG's are diluted as bloodlines thin from breeding outside of the Clan. So if there extremely distant relatives are reponsible for their KKG then why wasnt it diluted?
It is clear to me that there is room for ambiguity in regards to KKG's, we dont yet have all the facts.
1) If I had said that Hiruzen could use all 5 Nature types 2 weeks ago you guys would be reacting the exact same way telling me that a ninja cant learn more than 2-3 Nature types based on Kakashi's statements. So we should keep an open mind when approaching what I am saying.
2) People in alot of different villages have been able to use the same style: Kurotsuchi (Earth), Mei (Water) and Dodia (Lightning) have all been able to use Lava Style. But they are all from different nations. So are they all related? Do they all have really really distant relatives? But we also know that KKG's are diluted as bloodlines thin from breeding outside of the Clan. So if there extremely distant relatives are reponsible for their KKG then why wasnt it diluted?
It is clear to me that there is room for ambiguity in regards to KKG's, we dont yet have all the facts.
Conclusion
Hiruzen invented Onmyoudon, which was supervised by Tobirama and his creative mind, once Hiruzen prompted him that Obito was likely using multiple Nature Types at once he realized that the "Power of his Ancestors" that Obito was referring to was identical to Onmyoudon.
A wise man once said "All new news is old news happening to new people."
A wise man once said "All new news is old news happening to new people."
UPDATE #1
Lets think about something here because I am going to blow your minds:
Now these scans show us one thing:
1) Everyone is born with a specific type of Nature type, which the paper picks up on and reflects.
But... KKG's require 2 Chakra types? And this is where we can draw 2 conclusions:
1) A person is born with a KKG and 1 Nature type and must learn another one of the required styles to make use of the KKG.
2) A person born with a KKG is born with 2 Nature Types and thus has an easier time using mixed Nature styles.
I believe the Latter because Haku was roughly the same age as Sasuke if not younger. Yet Sasuke was not only born an Uchiha, giving him an advantage but also is fueled by the hatred of his brother killing his family thus driving him to improve quickly. So if point 1 is true then we must believe that Haku being younger than Sasuke was able to learn Water and Wind then Master Ice before Sasuke could even master Fire Style? Is that logical?
Or perhaps he was able to learn Water and Wind quickly because he was born with them as Natural Styles making it easier for him to progress to Ice. Now to me that makes sense, but it also validates my theory in a sense.
Because that means that using Mixed KKG isnt limited only to people born in specific families but it is open to anyone who can master them but is easier for people born into certain families as they start off with 2 Nature Types as oppose to just 1.
And with this I debunk the main challenge to my deductions train of logic.
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Now these scans show us one thing:
1) Everyone is born with a specific type of Nature type, which the paper picks up on and reflects.
But... KKG's require 2 Chakra types? And this is where we can draw 2 conclusions:
1) A person is born with a KKG and 1 Nature type and must learn another one of the required styles to make use of the KKG.
2) A person born with a KKG is born with 2 Nature Types and thus has an easier time using mixed Nature styles.
I believe the Latter because Haku was roughly the same age as Sasuke if not younger. Yet Sasuke was not only born an Uchiha, giving him an advantage but also is fueled by the hatred of his brother killing his family thus driving him to improve quickly. So if point 1 is true then we must believe that Haku being younger than Sasuke was able to learn Water and Wind then Master Ice before Sasuke could even master Fire Style? Is that logical?
Or perhaps he was able to learn Water and Wind quickly because he was born with them as Natural Styles making it easier for him to progress to Ice. Now to me that makes sense, but it also validates my theory in a sense.
Because that means that using Mixed KKG isnt limited only to people born in specific families but it is open to anyone who can master them but is easier for people born into certain families as they start off with 2 Nature Types as oppose to just 1.
And with this I debunk the main challenge to my deductions train of logic.
UPDATE #2
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The main thing about these scans is that they explain that the difficulty in KKG's is using both styles at the same time... This same concept is compared to the difficulty that Naruto will have trying to learn Wind Rasengan since it too is difficult because one would have to do 2 different things at the same time, almost like looking left and right at the same time:
You must be registered for see images
So what we see is that Mixed Nature types and Using the Wind Rasengan are similar in the fact that one would have to do 2 different things at the same time. But Naruto found the answer:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
And here Naruto gets by this conundrum by having 1 Clone do one job while the other does the other job. Now just like the difficulty makes Wind Rasengan and Mixed Nature types similar, the solution to the problem would be similar as well. One could summon 1 Shadow Clone to control 1 Nature type and another to control the other Nature type.
But Kakashi states something very important in the last scan:
"That said it is because Naruto has Chakra and Shadow Clone that this method works... Apart from me The Fourth wouldnt be able to do it this way."
This makes sense because each Clone would require a large portion of Chakra in order to mold it and Shadow Clones split your Chakra levels in half, so using them for a technique would be wasteful, Half your chakra + the cost of using the technique just to use 1 Mixed Nature technique. Most people wont have enough Chakra to spare on such a risky maneuver.
So as you can see, this too debunks the idea of Mixed Nature types being limited only to people with KKG's.
UPDATE #3
Note that the above update exemplifies that although it is possible to use Mixed Nature types with Shadow Clones it is incredibly impractical. One would be giving up half their chakra supplies summoning the Shadow Clone, then even more Chakra using the technique and alot of focus to mold the Chakra. And even then the technique could be dodged or avoided.
Now although most Mixed Nature types would be impractical in terms of usage, Hiruzen could use Onmyoudon as a means of ultimate defense. It would be impossible to use it offensively as 5 Clones moving in conjunction and manipulating it at the same time would be impossible. But sitting still and using it as a shield to deflect a powerful technique that would be unavoidable otherwise.... not so impossible,
Now although most Mixed Nature types would be impractical in terms of usage, Hiruzen could use Onmyoudon as a means of ultimate defense. It would be impossible to use it offensively as 5 Clones moving in conjunction and manipulating it at the same time would be impossible. But sitting still and using it as a shield to deflect a powerful technique that would be unavoidable otherwise.... not so impossible,
Enjoy the Read!
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