Crutch Kaguya
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Kirei is one of my favorite characters. You can't hate Kirei and like Shirou. He is one of the staples of the franchise. You may dislike him, but he is one of the best characters throughout the series.
[Discussion] Fate series
- Thread starter iNotorious
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Even if you say that I can't hold any sympathy for him or what he did, especially towards a person as kind and pure hearted as Sakura, who had to go through way worse than what he had to deal with.
I'm looking forward to the movie, any release date yet?
Shinji's not a worse person than Sakura is. He acted just like any arrogant person would act when put in such a situation. There's a reason Shirou says he's never been like this prior to the Grail War and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia confirms this with SoL Shinji scenes where he acts like a cool guy to hang out with, not to mention that Rider describes Perseus as ''Shinji who succeeded'', showing that Shinji is another victim of Zouken's actions and that he can be heroic in certain situations as well.
How an ordinary person - that has no Magic training or anything else that puts him above the status of a normal person aside from knowledge on magic's existence - would react in such an extra-ordinary setting and how would his status as an ordinary person, being put in a comparison with extra-ordinary people, would shape his mentality and actions in order to correspond to the extra-ordinary setting is the point of Shinji's character.
Prologue and Fate do this by setting him as your average arrogant, popular kid at school who thinks he's better than everyone and is popular due to it - an ordinary person. UBW does that as well, and points out how he's the only one he thinks he's special despite being an ordinary person which is then a lead on in HF where his mentality is fully explained and it expands upon how his status as an ordinary person shaped itself in order to fit the ''extra-ordinary setting and expectations'' that his grandfather and the war ''expected'' from him.
He isn't meant to be sympathetic. While it was pointed out that he was a victim, it was never really pointed out how ''tragic'' he was like it was done with Lio's character - from Kara no Kyoukai, both are written by the same author and are a part of Nasuverse. He just had his role to give us a perspective of a normal person in the Grail War and that was done well.
Him raping Sakura is also the result of the mentality he developed not only thanks to Zouken and his father, but also thanks to Sakura herself. In UBW epilogue - after the Grail War, it is said that Shinji and Sakura get along well as a brother and a sister.
How an ordinary person - that has no Magic training or anything else that puts him above the status of a normal person aside from knowledge on magic's existence - would react in such an extra-ordinary setting and how would his status as an ordinary person, being put in a comparison with extra-ordinary people, would shape his mentality and actions in order to correspond to the extra-ordinary setting is the point of Shinji's character.
Prologue and Fate do this by setting him as your average arrogant, popular kid at school who thinks he's better than everyone and is popular due to it - an ordinary person. UBW does that as well, and points out how he's the only one he thinks he's special despite being an ordinary person which is then a lead on in HF where his mentality is fully explained and it expands upon how his status as an ordinary person shaped itself in order to fit the ''extra-ordinary setting and expectations'' that his grandfather and the war ''expected'' from him.
He isn't meant to be sympathetic. While it was pointed out that he was a victim, it was never really pointed out how ''tragic'' he was like it was done with Lio's character - from Kara no Kyoukai, both are written by the same author and are a part of Nasuverse. He just had his role to give us a perspective of a normal person in the Grail War and that was done well.
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