"Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

Fountain

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

On the Vegas shooter.

You don’t think it’s weird that a shop doesn’t have to report multiple rifle purchases? Maybe that should change? Because why on earth would someone need so many rifles and ammo? That should have been a red flag.

It is weird. The whole incident makes no sense at all. There should have been multiple red flags.
 

Fountain

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

So what he used dylann roof as an example to solidify the claim? Is it not correct? How is it an issue? Does it annoy you that an openly vocal white supremist committed an act of terrorism in our country?

Yes, and he got what he deserved. But it also annoys me that he wasn't the only one, and this white guilt loser always has to make everything about race. If it were me i would've used more tragedies as an example, not just the one he used, or one that didn't target specifically blacks. Hell, i would've made a better point with the Vegas Massacre but i digres.

I don't care if you don't take me seriously anymore, in your thread I stated I didn't know you well enough to call you a racist but I'm certain you are now.

That's ok. You're an idiot. I'm not offended.
 

chopstickchakra

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

For what it's worth, and I haven't read the whole argument between you three, but if this is a discussion about school violience/shootings why not use school examples like columbine or sandy hook?
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

For what it's worth, and I haven't read the whole argument between you three, but if this is a discussion about school violience/shootings why not use school examples like columbine or sandy hook?
It also ties into gun violence in general though, so pretty much any example works.
 

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

For what it's worth, and I haven't read the whole argument between you three, but if this is a discussion about school violience/shootings why not use school examples like columbine or sandy hook?

Because the example I was making was about a shooting that could have been completely avoided if there was proper gun legislation. The Dylann Roof massacre was the first that came to mind and it was pretty recent.

I don't know/remember the minute details of Columbine or Sandy Hook to list them as examples for that.
 

Fountain

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

For what it's worth, and I haven't read the whole argument between you three, but if this is a discussion about school violience/shootings why not use school examples like columbine or sandy hook?

That's a good point too.
 

Chikombo

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

Give the students free guns, that way the good ones will be able to protect themselves.
 

Lightbringer

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

Give the students free guns, that way the good ones will be able to protect themselves.

You may be joking, but the sad thing is that there exists people who are totally down with this idea and would seek profit even if it means arming children.

Sacha Baron Cohen pretty much exposed this guy, who's president of a statewide gun activist group, for being in favor of this. He's obviously just one example.

[video=youtube;QkXeMoBPSDk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk&ab_channel=SHOWTIME[/video]
 

Yeah right

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

Give the students free guns, that way the good ones will be able to protect themselves.

I just don’t like the idea of giving students, TEENAGERS, you know, hormone crazed, impulsive, Never gonna die mentality, toughest social years ever, to ever posses guns in mass.
 

chopstickchakra

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

It also ties into gun violence in general though, so pretty much any example works.

I get that but if we can't focus on one aspect of gun violence long enough to fix it we're not gonna have much chance at fixing it as a whole.

Because the example I was making was about a shooting that could have been completely avoided if there was proper gun legislation. The Dylann Roof massacre was the first that came to mind and it was pretty recent.

I don't know/remember the minute details of Columbine or Sandy Hook to list them as examples for that.

Completely avoided might be a bit idealistic. Criminals still get guns. Yes it would be a lot harder for him to get one and easier for him to be found out after buying one so he may be stopped and many more may be dissuaded from bothering trying but even the best gun laws won't completely prevent them from getting into people's hands.
 

Azarath Metrion Zinthos

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

That's just a talking point without basis. There are studies which show that people who have access to a firearm are more likely to go through with a violent act than if they had access to an alternative weapon, such as a knife.
So what exactly are you suggesting specifically in the name of gun control? There already is gun control, and as far as I know, it's about as tight as it was 50 or so years ago, and the relentless shootings have only emerged in the last decades. Considering that gun control has only been more enforced over the years, alongside the fact more people have died in the past two decades than in the entire 20th century, I would assume that gun control hasn't been quite as successful as a preventative measure.

That's because currently, most gun laws differ from state to state. Some are stricter than others and when there's a state that has harder access to guns, the people then get their guns from neighboring states with looser gun laws. A federal mandate would resolve this issue.
How would it?

Not really. Yeah, the U.S. has the most diversity, but race, gender, nationality are problems that exist all over the world. There are literal massacres that are started because someone is a different sect of a religion or from a different tribe and solely on that basis. This is beside the point though. It has little to do with the gun problem we're seeing.
Good point, though you shouldn't have rested too much on that point I made with diversity, it was just to flesh out my point.



Yes it is because it hasn't happened to other countries that limited or flat-out banned their guns. Saying the U.S. is different case is once again another talking point. Similar situations existed. Having a bigger and more diverse population doesn't change the fact that stricter gun laws reduce gun deaths.
I wasn't basing diversity as the sole causation, just part of the whole underlying contributing factors. One such as the mass shootings being broadcasted widely and the killers being more popular than their victims, for starters.


Having no gun deaths at all is unrealistic. If gun laws prevent even one gun death, then that is reason enough. You're acting as if we institute gun laws that we can't do anything else. We can build upon what we know already works. For example, Australia had a gun violence problem which was changed when they reformed their gun laws in 1996. Since then, there hasn't been a mass shooting in over 20 years. That sounds like a solution to me.
But that's only what worked for Australia. America isn't Australia, as much as both share similarities in legislation and laws. And the mostly ignored part of this is since the Second Amendment, gun control in the US has only ever been tightened, and each time it was, violence escalated. So what exactly does that say about gun control as the primary and ultimate solution? There is already an enforced regulation in place for ensuring not just anyone can get a gun, especially law rebels. I.e background check.
We might as well have fingerprint access on guns so we can prevent household individuals from accessing such gun, then only the police having such guns and individual households only having access to rocks in their yards to protect themselves against a tyrannical government or country invasion. The future should start unfolding.


And how would you "decrease" their numbers? Would that include monitoring an entire population to see what they think and do in their daily lives to determine who's "dangerous?"
Have the government raise funds for building non mediocre health centres within all country districts and ensure that everyone gets proper treatment, especially adolescents that might be growing up under suspicious guidance, such as alcoholic parents, or even divorced single parents. Probing family histories and providing the needy families the required treatment through such a manner would produce good results in the long run. The child would have sufficient help to not contemplate killing, or resorting to drastic actions, should they feel themselves in an inevitable predicament. With less adolescents left to brood their problems alone, and come to bad conclusions, there will be less deaths, as they will receive help in the time they need it, before they grow out of the adolescent frustrations and melancholy. This is just one of many ways the problem could be addressed at its root.
 
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Lightbringer

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

So what exactly are you suggesting specifically in the name of gun control? There already is gun control, and as far as I know, it's about as tight as it was 50 or so years ago, and the relentless shootings have only emerged in the last decades. Considering that gun control has only been more enforced over the years, alongside the fact more people have died in the past two decades than in the entire 20th century, I would assume that gun control hasn't been quite as successful as a preventative measure.

Gun control has been pretty lax in the U.S. actually and it differs state by state.

Some things that could prevent gun violence are universal background checks, stricter standards, such as not selling guns to people who are on terrorist watch-lists, ammunition cap, mandatory training and mental evaluation on a yearly basis, and a recurring check-up to see if you still possess the gun you bought to make sure it wasn't sold illegally.


How would it?

Because then all states would have the same law which would close the loophole of going to another state with lax gun laws to obtain a firearm.



I wasn't basing diversity as the sole causation, just part of the whole underlying contributing factors. One such as the mass shootings being broadcasted widely and the killers being more popular than their victims, for starters.

That's a media problem, not a legislative problem. Even still, the media has toned down the amount of exposure they give to the shooters after that issue was raised about a year or two ago.




But that's only what worked for Australia. America isn't Australia, as much as both share similarities in legislation and laws. And the mostly ignored part of this is since the Second Amendment, gun control in the US has only ever been tightened, and each time it was, violence escalated. So what exactly does that say about gun control as the primary and ultimate solution? There is already an enforced regulation in place for ensuring not just anyone can get a gun, especially law rebels. I.e background check.

Firstly, I never said that gun control was "the ultimate solution." Saying that Australia isn't America isn't an argument. Countries adopt other countries policies which have a similar or same effect, and when it comes to limiting access to guns, every country that has done so has successfully reduced gun violence.

Gun control wasn't really ever "tightened." It's pretty easy to get a gun in the U.S. because the government is so pro-gun. An example of this would be after the Las Vegas shooting, a week later the GOP proposed a legislation that would make it easier to acquire a silencer for your gun.

Saying that violence escalates after a regulation being passed is also misleading since this is a natural reaction that is only temporary. Citing Australia again, this happened to them as well. In the immediate after-effects of the gun regulations, the crime rate spiked, but after a few years it dropped substantially and has remained within a steady trend downward.


Have the government raise funds for building non mediocre health centres within all country districts and ensure that everyone gets proper treatment, especially adolescents that might be growing up under suspicious guidance, such as alcoholic parents, or even divorced single parents. Probing family histories and providing the needy families the required treatment through such a manner would produce good results in the long run. The child would have sufficient help to not contemplate killing, or resorting to drastic actions, should they feel themselves in an inevitable predicament. With less adolescents left to brood their problems alone, and come to bad conclusions, there will be less deaths, as they will receive help in the time they need it, before they grow out of the adolescent frustrations and melancholy. This is just one of many ways the problem could be addressed at its root.


This will motivate the number

Ok, but you're not thinking of the macroscale. You can do what you proposed and have gun regulation on top of that. You're acting as if it has to be one or the other and can't be both. What you're proposing is also a separate issue that would require a healthcare system which people can afford.

We have over 300 million people living in the U.S. You can't keep track of all of the cases where people grow up in poor conditions that would make them violent.

One thing that's common with all shootings is the fact there was a gun involved. Having gun laws would be a universal effect, not just on an individual basis like what you're suggesting.

You also don't know what the "root" is. Not every shooter is mentally ill, poor, or have the same motivation. It differs in any case. The thing that they all have in common is that they were able to obtain firearms to kill people with.
 

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

Completely avoided might be a bit idealistic. Criminals still get guns. Yes it would be a lot harder for him to get one and easier for him to be found out after buying one so he may be stopped and many more may be dissuaded from bothering trying but even the best gun laws won't completely prevent them from getting into people's hands.

No, it's pretty certain that in his case he wouldn't have been able to obtain a gun with the proper gun laws. He shouldn't have passed his background check to legally purchase a weapon. Saying "criminals" can get guns is just an unsubstantiated talking point. It may be true for some, but not for others.

Most illegal weapons are bought from people who originally bought it legally. That's the black market and tighter gun legislation can prevent that in most cases. Exceptions exist to every rule and people will always slip through the cracks, but that will only be for a handful of people. One thing is almost certainly true is that tighter gun laws on a federal level would reduce gun violence rather than exacerbate it.
 

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

Make it harder on the cry babies that shoots the schools, it’s a good ideas.
 

chopstickchakra

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

No, it's pretty certain that in his case he wouldn't have been able to obtain a gun with the proper gun laws. He shouldn't have passed his background check to legally purchase a weapon. Saying "criminals" can get guns is just an unsubstantiated talking point. It may be true for some, but not for others.

Most illegal weapons are bought from people who originally bought it legally. That's the black market and tighter gun legislation can prevent that in most cases. Exceptions exist to every rule and people will always slip through the cracks, but that will only be for a handful of people. One thing is almost certainly true is that tighter gun laws on a federal level would reduce gun violence rather than exacerbate it.

How is it unsubstantiated? England has a complete ban on guns for citizens. Albeit rarely, there are still gun crimes there. And how exactly does any of that couter me or qualify your claim tougher laws would have made it completely avoidable? You think Roof couldn't steal a gun or his family didn't already have some?
 

Eos

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

That's just sad...Imagine going out and buying a bullet proof backpack for your child...just so they can get an education. Having this idea be a thing in the first place is just sad. How far we've fallen.
 

~WastelandSociety~

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

Cool. Extra protection isn’t such a bad idea. I had always thought about going to Europe wearing bulletproof vest,acid protection suit or armor that protects you from knife attacks. You never know these days when you need it especially in the U.S.


I wouldn’t trust today’s kids to carry a gun though. Perhaps a bit of training but that’s about it. Especially when there are kids in gangs carrying guns committing crimes already. Too emotionally driven by anger and are easy to manipulate into doing something they shouldn’t. Wish politicians will stop tip toeing around the issue and find the root cause of why Americans are becoming more and more violent these days.

I know in Greece people treat everyone like family,kids are well disciplined by two parents (though it doesn’t stop some kids becoming bullies), the popular music isn’t about guns and drugs (it’s mainly about *** though),etc. It seems violent crime is almost non-existent in Greece from the last time I visited a few years ago. Though the occasional mugging do occur. It wouldn’t hurt if America looks at why some countries are being considered safe to live.

I wouldn’t mind if guns are banned or have more stricter gun laws. Since you can go to a gun show and buy without any background check in some states. Though in America it wouldn’t fix the issue that has been steadily increasing over the years. Too many guns and with people making homemade weapons or buying them in the black market gun violence may remain 10-30 or more years until such changes start to becoming noticeable . We might even start seeing “ghost guns” if such laws pass in the U.S.



Seeing guns coming from the Philippines is less likely but citizens in the U.S and other countries close to home might start making them to supply gangs and other criminals. A sad world we live in, indeed.
 

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

How is it unsubstantiated? England has a complete ban on guns for citizens. Albeit rarely, there are still gun crimes there. And how exactly does any of that couter me or qualify your claim tougher laws would have made it completely avoidable? You think Roof couldn't steal a gun or his family didn't already have some?

I never said "completely avoidable," I even clarified myself by saying exceptions exist to every rule and people will always slip through the cracks. That's you putting words in my mouth.

What I said was that it is almost a certainty that tougher gun laws will reduce gun violence, and if I'm not mistaken, that is the case for England.

When it comes to Roof, you're making assumptions based on little information. What we do know is that if there was a proper background check on Roof, he wouldn't have been able to obtain a gun legally. That is a fact.

And if he could have just easily stolen a gun or used a gun that his family already owns, then he wouldn't have needed to go out and buy one, now would he?
 
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AllKnowingShinobi

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

this is america
 

Chikombo

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Re: "Fashionable" bulletproof attire for school students. Yup, it's a market now.

I just don’t like the idea of giving students, TEENAGERS, you know, hormone crazed, impulsive, Never gonna die mentality, toughest social years ever, to ever posses guns in mass.

Well you know, you gotta take responsibility and what other better lesson is there than having a gun you know. Life od Death all the way.


You may be joking, but the sad thing is that there exists people who are totally down with this idea and would seek profit even if it means arming children.

Sacha Baron Cohen pretty much exposed this guy, who's president of a statewide gun activist group, for being in favor of this. He's obviously just one example.

[video=youtube;QkXeMoBPSDk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk&ab_channel=SHOWTIME[/video]

I was joking don't worry. It is pretty sad. You shouldn't need bulletproof vests at a school.
 
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