[Discussion] Fans Don't Understand "Difficulty" and "Levels"

[Vandenre1ch]

For a while now I've seeing a serious diversity in people's opinions. The opinions are so diverse that no one can seem to come to an agreement. Im sure all of you have seen the "this guy wins mid-dif, that guy wins neg dif etc.." but what is "difficulty?" Everyones opinion on difficulty is different of course, but I feel that not alot of people can connect "difficulty" and "levels/tiers." Understanding difficulty makes it much easier to establish tier levels.

Levels of Difficulty

Spoiler

No dif: A fight in which no effort is needed to achieve victory. As one sided a fight can get. Also known as "neg dif."
Examples
-Luffy vs. Bellamy at mock town
-Luffy and Zoro vs. Coby and Helmeppo pre-Enies Lobby
-Luffy vs. Coby at Marineford
-Zoro vs. Monet
-Garp vs. Kid Luffy, Ace and Sabo
-Mihawk vs. Daz Bones at Marineford
-Robin vs. Franky at Water 7 Lol

Low dif: A fight in which SOME effort is needed for victory. A person can't just casually toss his opponent aside but he/she will usually walk away with little to no injuries.
Examples
-Luffy vs Caesar
-Luffy vs. Hannaybel in Impel Down
-Luffy vs. Smoker at Marineford
-Akainu vs. Ivankov at Marineford
-Ivankov vs. Magellan at Impel Down
-Sanji vs. Doflamingo
-Jinbe vs. Moriah

Med dif: The common 'difficulty' in OP fights. A fight in which LOTS of effort is needed for victory and neither person should hold back or else they'll get hurt. You can't slip pass this opponent and you'll have no choice but to fight. Fighters typically remains at a stalemate with no one seemingly gaining the upper hand. A person usually walks away with little to moderate injuries.
Examples
-Luffy vs. Don Chinjao
-Zoro vs. Ryuuma
-Sanji vs. Vergo
-Law vs. Smoker
-Sabo vs. Fujitora
-Zoro vs. Pica
-Sabo vs. Jesus Burgess
-Luffy vs. Blueno
-Sanji vs. Absalom
-Luffy vs. Usopp
-Doflamingo vs. Law

High dif: A fight very similar to med-dif fights but the momenteum usually shifts and fighters are put at a disadvantage. "On the defensive" as you can say. Blood is usally shed and both or one of the fighters stuggles HEAVILY. A fighter usually walks away with moderate to serious injures.
Examples
Zoro vs. Kaku
Sanji vs. Jyabura
Whitebeard vs. Akainu
Blackbeard vs. Ace
Nami vs. Kalifa
Luffy vs. Crocodile
Luffy vs. Moriah
SH Crew vs. Pacifista

Extreme Dif: A fight so intense that changing one small aspect can change the outcome of the battle. A fighter usually walks away with serious to fatal injuries. Either fighter will BARELY emerge victorous.
Examples
Luffy vs. Lucci
Akainu vs. Aokiji

Now that "difficulty" has been established, lets look at tier levels..

Tier Levels(didn't make a tier list)

Spoiler

Yonkou Level(Shanks)
Fleet Admiral Level(those you can see beating admirals but not Yonkou)(Dragon)
High Tier Admiral Level(Aokiji)
Mid Tier Admiral Level(Fujitora for now)
Low Tier Admiral Level(Doflamingo)
High Tier Vice Admiral Level(Luffy)
Mid Tier Vice Admiral Level(Zoro)
Low Tier Vice Admiral Level(Bartolomeo)

-Sabo is clashing with a Mid-Tier Admiral level fighter med difficulty. Makes Sabo atleast Low-Tier Admiral level with Doflamingo.

-A handicaped Don Chinjao clashed med-difficulty with a High Tier VA level fighter. Makes him atleast High Tier VA level as well.

What do you think? Makes ranking people much easier no? What are your personal levels and difficulty settings?

Edit: I shouldn't even have to say this but some people are just too serious and sensitive. This is obviously MY opnion and like all opinions, its subjective. Can't you tell the difference between making a suggestion and asserting "facts?"

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Why is Sabo vs Fujitora med diff? No one has even won the fight yet and whoever does will win high diff.

 

[The Masked Sage]

this is one piece, use naruto terms please

 

[Jimmy page]

I like your logic, and I agree.

 

[TheHokage]

For a while now I've seeing a serious diversity in people's opinions. The opinions are so diverse that no one can seem to come to an agreement. Im sure all of you have seen the "this guy wins mid-dif, that guy wins neg dif etc.." but what is "difficulty?" Everyones opinion on difficulty is different of course, but I feel that not alot of people can connect "difficulty" and "levels/tiers." Understanding difficulty makes it much easier to establish tier levels.

Levels of Difficulty

Spoiler

No dif: A fight in which no effort is needed to achieve victory. As one sided a fight can get. Also known as "neg dif."
Examples
-Luffy vs. Bellamy at mock town
-Luffy and Zoro vs. Coby and Helmeppo pre-Enies Lobby
-Luffy vs. Coby at Marineford
-Zoro vs. Monet
-Garp vs. Kid Luffy, Ace and Sabo
-Mihawk vs. Daz Bones at Marineford
-Robin vs. Franky at Water 7 Lol

Low dif: A fight in which SOME effort is needed for victory. A person can't just casually toss his opponent aside but he/she will usually walk away with little to no injuries.
Examples
-Luffy vs Caesar
-Luffy vs. Hannaybel in Impel Down
-Luffy vs. Smoker at Marineford
-Akainu vs. Ivankov at Marineford
-Ivankov vs. Magellan at Impel Down
-Sanji vs. Doflamingo
-Jinbe vs. Moriah

Med dif: The common 'difficulty' in OP fights. A fight in which LOTS of effort is needed for victory and neither person should hold back or else they'll get hurt. You can't slip pass this opponent and you'll have no choice but to fight. Fighters typically remains at a stalemate with no one seemingly gaining the upper hand. A person usually walks away with little to moderate injuries.
Examples
-Luffy vs. Don Chinjao
-Zoro vs. Ryuuma
-Sanji vs. Vergo
-Law vs. Smoker
-Sabo vs. Fujitora
-Zoro vs. Pica
-Sabo vs. Jesus Burgess
-Luffy vs. Blueno
-Sanji vs. Absalom
-Luffy vs. Usopp
-Doflamingo vs. Law

High dif: A fight very similar to med-dif fights but the momenteum usually shifts and fighters are put at a disadvantage. "On the defensive" as you can say. Blood is usally shed and both or one of the fighters stuggles HEAVILY. A fighter usually walks away with moderate to serious injures.
Examples
Zoro vs. Kaku
Sanji vs. Jyabura
Whitebeard vs. Akainu
Blackbeard vs. Ace
Nami vs. Kalifa
Luffy vs. Crocodile
Luffy vs. Moriah
SH Crew vs. Pacifista

Extreme Dif: A fight so intense that changing one small aspect can change the outcome of the battle. A fighter usually walks away with serious to fatal injuries. Either fighter will BARELY emerge victorous.
Examples
Luffy vs. Lucci
Akainu vs. Aokiji

Now that "difficulty" has been established, lets look at tier levels..

Tier Levels(didn't make a tier list)

Spoiler

Yonkou Level(Shanks)
Fleet Admiral Level(those you can see beating admirals but not Yonkou)(Dragon)

Spoiler

High Tier Admiral Level(Aokiji)
Mid Tier Admiral Level(Fujitora for now)
Low Tier Admiral Level(Doflamingo)
High Tier Vice Admiral Level(Luffy)
Mid Tier Vice Admiral Level(Zoro)
Low Tier Vice Admiral Level(Bartolomeo)

-Sabo is clashing with a Mid-Tier Admiral level fighter med difficulty. Makes Sabo atleast Low-Tier Admiral level with Doflamingo.

-A handicaped Don Chinjao clashed med-difficulty with a High Tier VA level fighter. Makes him atleast High Tier VA level as well.

What do you think? Makes ranking people much easier no? What are your personal levels and difficulty settings?

I disagree with the bolded part Dragon ain't weaker than a 1 armed Shanks.

But I agree with this generally.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

I disagree with some of the fights you categorised.

When it comes to tier I simply think if that person is on the same level as an Admiral, they are Admiral level. Same goes for Yonko, etc.

 

[shon93]

Loll this is a bullshit thread I like how u used this thread to down some characters........

 

[jiraiya lives]

I disagree with the bolded part Dragon ain't weaker than a 1 armed Shanks.

But I agree with this generally.

why? Did Oda announce it? stop making speculations for all we know Dragon could be around Akainu/Aokiji's level

OT: I somewhat agree with your difficulty levels but Sabo vs Fuji isn't mid diff as we've only seen a snippet of the fight...Also Luffy and Zoro should be the same tier

 

[Lili-Chwan]

You logic seems flawed. You try to give some sort of standard and objective view over the matter, but, in the end it's still your own opinion. And you even contradict yourself. Case in point, for some reason, you deemed Fujitora vs Sabo, a battle that isn't even finished, as Med-Difficulty, which you defined as a battle where both sides are equally threatening, and then classified Sabo 1 tier lower than Fujitora.
Your logic is fundamentally flawed either way. There's no quantifiable way to judge strength in characters, and there's too many variables to say, with certainty, that a character will defeat one or the other. Even the smallest most weakest character can kill the strongest most threatening foe if the circumstance is right. And that has been show in the manga many times, like, for example, Wax being actually useful against Poison. And not to mention that the strength of a character doesn't necessarily mean physical strength, it could mean endurance, intelligence, charm, etc. No one, in their right mind, would say Luffy vs Nami results in Nami's victory, but what if the fight is a navigational obstacle course?

There is no way to define the characters in tiers or the fights in difficulty, and there is no point. It's good to argue about what if's, as in, what could have happened if this character did this differently, or if this characters was here, or if the circumstances were different, but the fact remains that everything is subjective. Trying to appear impartial while assuming your own personal opinion is just not going to work.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Why is Sabo vs Fujitora med diff? No one has even won the fight yet and whoever does will win high diff.

Because Fujitora and Sabo are med-diffing each other AS OF NOW. As of now, they are just at a stalemate with neither man getting in control of the fight and no one is injured yet. If the fight continues, it will withut doubt, turn into a high-dif fight but we can't be sure. The fight might be interrupted.

Almost all high level fights starts off weith med-difficulty and the difficulty changes as the fight drags on. Marco and Kizaru for example started off med-diffing each other.

Loll this is a bullshit thread I like how u used this thread to down some characters........

Like who?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

There should be 4 VA tiers: top, high, med, and low.

Top VA level-Buster Call VAs, Luffy, Zoro, Ace, and Vergo

High VA level-Smoker, Sanji, and The DD pirate super executives.

Med VA level-Bastille and Bartolomeo.

Low VA level-Maynard, pre TS Smoker, and pre TS Luffy.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

There should be 4 VA tiers: top, high, med, and low.

Top VA level-Buster Call VAs, Luffy, Zoro, Ace, and Vergo

High VA level-Smoker, Sanji, and The DD pirate super executives.

Med VA level-Bastille and Bartolomeo.

Low VA level-Maynard, pre TS Smoker, and pre TS Luffy.

Perhaps. There are ALOT of VA level fighters after all.

The Buster Call VAs were(from right to left in Chapter 420: Buster Call) Momonga, Onigumo, Doberman, Yamaji and Strawberry. I don't see Yamaji as a top VA as he was never seen again and barely any panel time in Marineford. I'd replace him with Dalmation as Luffy couldn't do anything against him in Marineford. Then again, Luffy wasn't trying to him.

 

[Hexuze]

Sabo vs Burgess was a low-diff. fight.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Here's my extended list

PK level- Roger, Prime WB, Prime Garp, maybe Dragon.

Yonkou level- Old WB, Dragon probably, Shanks, Kaido, Mihawk, and BM.

FA level- Sengoku, Old Garp, and post TS Akainu.

High admiral level- pre TS Aokiji and pre TS Akainu.

Med admiral level- Fujitora, Green Bull, Kizaru, Sabo, Old Rayleigh, and the yonkou first mates.

Low admiral level- Doflamingo.

There should be 4 VA tiers: top, high, med, and low.

Top VA level-Buster Call VAs,(excluding Yamakaji) Dalmation, Luffy, Zoro, Ace, and Vergo

High VA level-Smoker, Sanji, and The DD pirate super executives.

Med VA level-Bastille and Bartolomeo.

Low VA level-Maynard, pre TS Smoker, and pre TS Luffy.

 

[TheHokage]

why? Did Oda announce it? stop making speculations for all we know Dragon could be around Akainu/Aokiji's level

OT: I somewhat agree with your difficulty levels but Sabo vs Fuji isn't mid diff as we've only seen a snippet of the fight...Also Luffy and Zoro should be the same tier

No because Dragon's hype and portrayal is far greater than Shanks.

 

[WolfHaley]

I disagree with the bolded part Dragon ain't weaker than a 1 armed Shanks.

But I agree with this generally.

It was commented that Shanks didn't lose that much of his strength with his arm I think.

OT: I agree with you. And I'm glad you didn't put Luffy vs Lucci as a high diff fight.

 

[U mAd]

well difficulty can't be decided on half assed fights like sanji vs vergo and unfinished battles like fuji vs sabo and you included garp vs luffy and ace(child hood),might as well as have metionied nami neg diffing luffy,zoro,sanji.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

No because Dragon's hype and portrayal is far greater than Shanks.

The only hype Dragon has is that he's the most wanted man in the world. That could only be because he is a 'D', his thrist for knowledge, him leading a revolution and him having the storm-storm fruit. Ican see Dragon beating Admirals but not Yonko like Shanks and Teach.

It was commented that Shanks didn't lose that much of his strength with his arm I think.

OT: I agree with you. And I'm glad you didn't put Luffy vs Lucci as a high diff fight.

There are people who thinks Luffy vs. Lucci was a high diff fight? If I changed one thing about that fight, the outcome would be different. Remove Usopp from the equation and Luffy would've lost.

well difficulty can't be decided on half assed fights like sanji vs vergo and unfinished battles like fuji vs sabo and you included garp vs luffy and ace(child hood),might as well as have metionied nami neg diffing luffy,zoro,sanji.

Why not. Garp vs. 3 kids was obviously a joke for the no diff section. Nami comically no diffs Luffy and Zoro all the time.

Analyizing scuffles like Sanji vs. Vergo can still give a general idea on a character's level. Like Sabo vs. Fujitora. As I said earlier, they are currently med-diffing each other and that evolve to high-diff if the fight continues. Since Sabo is having med-diff against Fujitora, its safe to assume that Sabo is atleast 1 level below him.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

-Sabo vs. Fujitora
-Zoro vs. Pica

I do not know how this fights can be mid diff, when they are not finished?

Overall good explanations...
I would change in tiers:
-I do think that Fleet Admiral would be comparable with Yonkos.
-I would say that Luffy is Admiral level.
-I, myself am not sure would I place Fujitora whole tier above Doflamingo.
-I would maybe add some tier between VC and Admiral, some characters seems stronge for one tier, but again weak for another.

 

[U mAd]

The only hype Dragon has is that he's the most wanted man in the world. That could only be because he is a 'D', his thrist for knowledge, him leading a revolution and him having the storm-storm fruit. Ican see Dragon beating Admirals but not Yonko like Shanks and Teach.



There are people who thinks Luffy vs. Lucci was a high diff fight? If I changed one thing about that fight, the outcome would be different. Remove Usopp from the equation and Luffy would've lost.



Why not. Garp vs. 3 kids was obviously a joke for the no diff section. Nami comically no diffs Luffy and Zoro all the time.

Analyizing scuffles like Sanji vs. Vergo can still give a general idea on a character's level. Like Sabo vs. Fujitora. As I said earlier, they are currently med-diffing each other and that evolve to high-diff if the fight continues. Since Sabo is having med-diff against Fujitora, its safe to assume that Sabo is atleast 1 level below him.

well i'm just saying before the end of a battle diff level cannot be decided.anyone who watched half of daz vs zoro or luffy vs lucci will say that zoro and luffy would get beaten mid diff but at the end both won .sabo is the right hand of dragon he probably on the same level as fuji and i think sabo will at least take it to high diff.