Fallacious claims being made about the latest Chapter

[Apêx1]

Naruto's current avatar is the same as his BSM one, infact it's outputting even less damage than that one currently. You have nothing to support that it got stronger only the fact that Naruto received half of hagaromos chakra some time ago. And I don't care about whoever that is.

He could've but it's not stated anywhere he did, it's also not shown how is this TBB any diffeerent than previous ones, especially when the blast radius for both jutsu is smaller than previous ones.

If anything Madara was overestimating himself greatly, also what feats specifically make you so convinced Sasuke's Susanoo is better than Madara's? As far as I can tell their almost identical, with Madara's having better defensive capabilities.

The manga scans you provided where bullshit, the position of Sasuke's pinky finger doesn't change the fact that Chidori is a B-rank Lightning jutsu meant for assasination. You can fantasize all you want but the jutsu doesn't change, as much as you want to be Kishi you're not.

-Laughable. I don't recall his BSM avatar utilising Rikudo's Senjutsu which is leagues above regular Senjutsu by portrayal and feats. And no it's not, current Naruto's TBB was superior to every TBB it has ever created in BSM. Lol, @bold just made yourself look like an ignorant child who doesn't want his beloved Nardo to look bad.

-Once again, you can stay in denial. We have no reason to argue if you're gonna stick by "It wasn't said in a text bubble and I don't want to use logic with my sub-zero IQ, so NOO."

-My point exactly, thus you just proved to me that Sasuke's PS, which is matching the strongest Biju enhanced by Rikudo's Senjutsu, is above Madara's who 'overestimates himself'. Nope. This feat speaks for itself [

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]. These are the rocks that fell after Sasuke cut the CT into pieces. It's mountain ranged, whereas Madara's only crossed two nearby mountains and merely chipped off the tips. Sasuke cut these orbs from one side to the other without the shockwave having lost momentum mid-way. So by feats, Sasuke's>Madara's. Hope you don't want a statement where someone says "Sasuke's is stronger than Madara's" because you're gonna be stubborn again when proven wrong.

-So B-Rank lightning jutsu's stay like B-rank level forever no matter how the user improves. Wow, I'm sure most people crave that weak ass B-rank Raiton's variations which has probably one of the greatest accomplishments in this manga;
-Was Orochimaru's defeat
-Pierced the 4th Raikage and Gaara's 'Ultimate shield'
-Countered C4 completely
-Sliced Shinju Madara in half
-Necessary for Kirin's utilisation
-On par with every A-Rank Rasengan Naruto has used on Sasuke
-Stalemated a TBB
Dat B-Rank, Much wows.

 

[KisuneUchiha]

you conveniently failed to mention the part where Naruto is seen holding back on the size of the TBB and the fact that he hasn't been using any of the other bijuu's abilities yet. Him simply ggoing into a cloak mode to keep himself from being harmed doesn't mean jack because he did the same thing to keep himself and others from being harmed by Madara and Obito's joint fireball atks.

I love how you cleverly disguised not mentioning Sasuke having to resort to using his PS just to inflict actual dmg on a Naruto that wasn't even trying to hurt him Lol

Lol I love how you forget that a larger tbb would take more time, I which case Naruto would get rekt neg diff.

 

[WalksInShadows]

Or he wasn't able to Form big one at that becoz of prep time
@bold Sasuke basic fireball is equal to those giant fire techs.Yes why not

you're trolling now, because Sasuke hasn't performed a single Katon jutsu that was shown to cover the same size and range as either of theirs', let alone a basic fireball doing such Lol

 

[LuckyMan]

I never said BSM Naruto beats current Sasuke. I said ts pretty clear current Naruto can kill Sasuke any time he wishes and the feats shown exactly that, and they are not debatable, not even close. This is just a good fight for the series but outside the rivalry perspective Naruto murders him easily. He hasn't even attacked Sasuke, just defending from all of his attacks. He has no killing intent and Sasuke is still inferior.

 

[Apêx1]

I never said BSM Naruto beats current Sasuke. I said ts pretty clear current Naruto can kill Sasuke any time he wishes and the feats shown exactly that, and they are not debatable, not even close. This is just a good fight for the series but outside the rivalry perspective Naruto murders him easily. He hasn't even attacked Sasuke, just defending from all of his attacks. He has no killing intent and Sasuke is still inferior.

Not you bro, there's another Chief in town.

 

[BLAZE]

you're trolling now, because Sasuke hasn't performed a single Katon jutsu that was shown to cover the same size and range as either of theirs', let alone a basic fireball doing such Lol

Lel Don't Troll u r the one who compared them in first place
Naruto needed to go RSM to against basic fireball
but u said he used it to tank giant fireball. Is giant fireball =basic fireballs

 

[Exaar]

-So B-Rank lightning jutsu's stay like B-rank level forever no matter how the user improves.

Rank is based of difficulty to learn not the jutsu's strength.

Chidori will always stay the same rank.

-Was Orochimaru's defeat

I was sure Orochimaru was defeated by sasuke absorbing him and not because of his raiton.

-Pierced the 4th Raikage and Gaara's 'Ultimate shield'

It's what the jutsu is designed to do.

-Countered C4 completely

Thats because Raiton is a perfect counter to deidara's bombs, Any raiton jutsu would have the same results.

-Sliced Shinju Madara in half

Thats not chidori.

Thats simply infusing his sword with raiton chakra.

-Necessary for Kirin's utilisation

Completely irreverent, It being needed for Kirin is no strength feat.

-Stalemated a TBB

All we saw was the bijuu bomb explode, No proof of it stalemating it or not.[/QUOTE]

 

[UzumakiWade]

Honestly who cares if Sasuke hit Naruto?

it doesn't automatically decide the winner of the match, it was just one hit that Naruto obviously didn't even feel.

Even if the chidori pierced it wouldn't have made a difference because 1-tailed Naruto healed from a chidori pierce and now he has 9 bijuu's inside of him all that he has tamed and all with the ability to heal their jinchuriki.

 

[WalksInShadows]

Lel Don't Troll u r the one who compared them in first place
Naruto needed to go RSM to against basic fireball
but u said he used it to tank giant fireball. Is giant fireball =basic fireballs

it's cute that you want to call me a troll, yet you make outlandish claims about how Sasuke has even shown to use a single Katon that rivals Madara's or Obito's w/o actually being able to prove it. Go ahead, prove me wrong and i'll gladly consider myself corrected.

 

[Apêx1]

^Sasuke's Katon isn't as massive as Madara or Obito's, but in the case it heats, it is amplified by Rikudo's chakra, which should potentially make it hotter, but then again that doesn't matter since Naruto can block it/heal from it imo.

 

[KCMNaruto]

• "Sasuke's PS was overrated, Naruto's BSM 50 chapters ago could've stopped it."

-That is false, Naruto's BSM avatar was never this large. Based on what? Based on the fact that it was relatively the same size asSasuke's CM enhanced v3 [

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], which is much smaller than PS.
-Naruto now posses Rikudo's Senjutsu and chakra, this means Naruto's avatar is heavily enhanced by the two of these.

• "Sasuke can replicate that Chidori in base"

-An extremely unlikely scenario, there should be no reason for Sasuke to somehow whip out a Chidori 100's of times larger than himself and be unaffected.
-Bee was electrocuted briefly, despite his Raiton nature. This quantity of Raiton should definitely have some detrimental effects on Sasuke, although much larger scaled Chidori's in comparison to before should be possible.

• "Naruto's Super Bijuu Dama is much stronger than the one he just used"

-False. BM Naruto's Super Bijuu Dama should've constituted for half this explosion [

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]
-This explosion, which is constituted by half of Naruto's TBB, is vastly larger than the previous one. One can clearly see this when looking at the mountains of the two, this explosion dwarfed them to a far greater extent.

• "Madara's Destruction Incarnate is much more powerful than Sasuke's"

-People claim since Rikudo Enhanced Kyuubi blocked the PS swipes, Sasuke's PS is somehow weaker than Madara's.
-Madara himself said his is comparable to Bijuu, even if we assumed he was speaking of the Kyuubi, a 100% Kyuubi doesn't begin to compare to a Rikudo Enhanced 50% Kyuubi; whose strength, durability and speed would be on a league of their own.
-Sasuke's PS has a smaller amount of chakra exerted into it, but the chakra that is outputted is much more potent due to Rikudo's chakra. I saw this image, which somewhat conveys the difference [

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]. Sasuke's attack was blocked, thus never reached its momentum's peak, yet created this far of a shockwave, Madara's shockwave reached a smaller distance despite reaching its full momentum. ---Don't forget Sasuke's full momentum allowing him to slice mountain ranges several times[

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] in a mere instant.

• "Sasuke didn't hit Naruto this chapter"

-Sasuke did hit Naruto to some extent with his incomplete Chidori, as portrayed here by the electricity [

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]. Naruto was thrown this far after being hit by Sasuke's hand [

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]. Now before people start saying "how come he was thrown far instead of pierced".. Sasuke's Chidori comes in differing variations, one more destructive while one penetrative. This is emphasised by the way in which the fingers are positioned, similar to the Third Raikage's Nukite mechanics. Here, the fingers are somewhat bent [

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][

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][

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][

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][

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]. One can clearly see in the first two scans that this creates a destructive force in contrast to the straight finger Chidori which creates penetrative power only. [

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][

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][

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].
-These definitely portray that there is quite a difference between straight finger Chidori and bent fingered Chidori, somewhat comparable to Raikage's 4 Finger Nukite (had his fingers been more opened) and his lower amounts of fingers. So technically, Naruto was hit/blasted away much more than an attempted attempt to pierce through him like he pierced through Madara with his Chidori Eiso. And for the people who still think Naruto's durability was just so good, an attempt to pierce him ended up throwing him back.. Chidori Eiso is stated in the DB to be less penetrative than regular Chidori, thus Shinju Madara's durability being far above Naruto's suggests that if Sasuke attempted to cut him when he makes contact with him, he would.

I would disagree only with two listed points by you:

- Kurama's Flash bijuudama colliding with other tailed beasts TBB in the past reached COMPARABLE blast radius explosion sphere.
Just Current explosion of PS Chidori and regular TBB is shown in close up view so it looks like bigger, even if it is as it would be expected then it is not bigger by wide margin, which suggest Current Kurama avatar could pull even bigger TBB and make it more destructible with greater AOE.

- Yes, Sasuke's Chidori reached Naruto to some extent, however Main body of chidori including Sasuke layered by the closest sparks didn't reach him as Naruto was not pierced avoiding it. Still Naruto was electrocuted so indirectly Naruto was hit by Sparks of Chidori.

 

[Zee U]

On top of the size argument: BM is Naruto and Kurama's chakra merged together. If Naruto has Hagoromo's chakra and his own chakra is amped by Six Paths Senjutsu, the avatar would be stronger and larger. Let's not use panels to compare sizes since chakrazords are highly inconsistent, but comparisons with objects. The V3-BSM avatar one is the correct thing to do.

Also, regarding "Destruction Incarnate" vs Sasuke's PS:

Those CTS that Sasuke (and Naruto) destroyed were calced to be 380 kms in width and 480 kms in lenght, which is absurdly huge. A small piece of those covered a mountain range but that wasn't a small mountain range, instead a really big on. One of those

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was comparable to the height of a major root of the shinju, which is in turn atleast 60 km high (calc done by LazyWaka, go check him on NF). That's just plain absurd. Now let's compare them to the mountains that "Destruction Incarnate" cut:

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! His PS should be around 300 meters and those mountains are what... two times the Susanoo? 2.5? Let's be generous and give them a kilometer.

See the difference? While Sasuke cut pieces of meteors worth hundred of kilometers in lenght, not even swinging his sword but using the force of the wings of his Susanoo to move throught the meteors like they were hot butter. CT is also way more durable than normal rock, as showed in the Pain fight. There is a humongous difference between those two chakra constructs, and it's not even funny. There's not even a possible comparison because the gap is just too large.

 

[King Of Pop]

Last point is incorrect. Suckske never actually touched him. Furthermore, shows Naruto's speed, since even using the fireball as a cover to sneak behind Naruto, naruto dodged suckske.

he didnt doge shit, he got smacked away.

 

[Apêx1]

I would disagree only with two listed points by you:

- Kurama's Flash bijuudama colliding with other tailed beasts TBB in the past reached COMPARABLE blast radius explosion sphere.
Just Current explosion of PS Chidori and regular TBB is shown in close up view so it looks like bigger, even if it is as it would be expected then it is not bigger by wide margin, which suggest Current Kurama avatar could pull even bigger TBB and make it more destructible with greater AOE.

- Yes, Sasuke's Chidori reached Naruto to some extent, however Main body of chidori including Sasuke layered by the closest sparks didn't reach him as Naruto was not pierced avoiding it. Still Naruto was electrocuted so indirectly Naruto was hit by Sparks of Chidori.

True, Naruto should be able to make his TBB much larger, but I don't see it happening since Sasuke's speed in PS isn't something that should be undermined.

To me, Sasuke was the one who pushed Naruto that distance from atop of the VOTE statues.

On a side note, the size difference between BM and current avatar. I know there's drawing inconsistency, and Kishi doesn't draw to scale, but I saw someone say they were equal in size by scaling, so I'm leaving this here anyways.

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[bowflex]

So... are we supposed to just take your Word for it? or are you about to drop some manga scans to prove your arguments..

in other words this is fanfic unless you prove it with actual kishimoto naruto shippuden manga scans.

 

[Apêx1]

Rank is based of difficulty to learn not the jutsu's strength.

Chidori will always stay the same rank.

Then again, if you read what he said, he is implying that B-rank makes it a weak ninjutsu, so your point is irrelevant.

Raikiri is a variation of chidori, it's S-Rank. Your point?

I was sure Orochimaru was defeated by sasuke absorbing him and not because of his raiton.

True dat.

It's what the jutsu is designed to do.

Doesn't change the fact that it's an accomplishment, which is all I ever stated.

Thats because Raiton is a perfect counter to deidara's bombs, Any raiton jutsu would have the same results.

Doesn't change the fact that it's an accomplishment, which is all I ever stated.

Thats not chidori.

"Chidori Eiso" re-read my post you yourself quoted. "B-rank raiton's variations" So my accomplishment stands.

Thats simply infusing his sword with raiton chakra.

Wasn't his sword to begin with, it was his own Chidori Eiso manifestation.

Completely irreverent, It being needed for Kirin is no strength feat.

Doesn't change the fact that it's an accomplishment, which is all I ever stated.

All we saw was the bijuu bomb explode, No proof of it stalemating it or not.

It wasn't overpowered, and them speaking to each other right now is a replication of what has happened in all their Chidori VS Rasengan stalemates. This is no different, seeing how Rasengan is a variation of TBB on a large scale and with more potent chakra, Sasuke using Rikudo's chakra and a Chidori on a larger scale will wield the same result.

So... are we supposed to just take your Word for it? or are you about to drop some manga scans to prove your arguments..

in other words this is fanfic unless you prove it with actual kishimoto naruto shippuden manga scans.

Provided more than enough scans to support my points.

 

[Exaar]

Raikiri is a variation of chidori, it's S-Rank. Your point?

I fail to see what relevance that has but ok.

Wasn't his sword to begin with, it was his own Chidori Eiso manifestation.

Ah i see, My mistake.

It wasn't overpowered, and them speaking to each other right now is a replication of what has happened in all their Chidori VS Rasengan stalemates. This is no different, seeing how Rasengan is a variation of TBB on a large scale and with more potent chakra, Sasuke using Rikudo's chakra and a Chidori on a larger scale will wield the same result..

The problem is, Chidori = Rasengan when they clash (assuming they are the roughly the same scale). Sasuke's rikudo Chidori should still be roughly equal to Naruto's Rikudo Rasengan, Which is far inferior to an Sage enhanced TBB. So a normal rikudo rasengan the on a large scale should've stalemated that chidori sasuke used.

Chidori is inferior to Rasengan Variants such as Big ball Rasengan and such, Which in turn are still weaker than an TBB. Sasuke's susanoo might of survived the explosion but i doubtthe chidori is equal to a TBB when past feats put it on par with a jutsu that is inferior to TBB's.

 

[Apêx1]

I fail to see what relevance that has but ok.





Ah i see, My mistake.






The problem is, Chidori = Rasengan when they clash (assuming they are the roughly the same scale). Sasuke's rikudo Chidori should still be roughly equal to Naruto's Rikudo Rasengan, Which is far inferior to an Sage enhanced TBB. So a normal rikudo rasengan the on a large scale should've stalemated that chidori sasuke used.

Chidori is inferior to Rasengan Variants such as Big ball Rasengan and such, Which in turn are still weaker than an TBB. Sasuke's susanoo might of survived the explosion but i doubtthe chidori is equal to a TBB when past feats put it on par with a jutsu that is inferior to TBB's.

Alright.

And I agree, if that were the case. However, the fact that Kishi has portrayed Rikudo's chakra to be the epitome of chakra potency, and the fact that TBB only differs to a normal rasengan due to its constituent chakra, which is highly potent and condensed, implies that Bijuu no longer serve to make Naruto's Rasengan more lethal (since it's as lethal when utilising Rikudo's chakra as it is using Bijuu chakra); they serve to grant him the much larger arsenal and the massively increased reserves/BM. Just my take on it though.

 

[Ultimateone]

• "Sasuke's PS was overrated, Naruto's BSM 50 chapters ago could've stopped it."

-That is false, Naruto's BSM avatar was never this large. Based on what? Based on the fact that it was relatively the same size asSasuke's CM enhanced v3 [

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], which is much smaller than PS.
-Naruto now posses Rikudo's Senjutsu and chakra, this means Naruto's avatar is heavily enhanced by the two of these.

• "Sasuke can replicate that Chidori in base"

-An extremely unlikely scenario, there should be no reason for Sasuke to somehow whip out a Chidori 100's of times larger than himself and be unaffected.
-Bee was electrocuted briefly, despite his Raiton nature. This quantity of Raiton should definitely have some detrimental effects on Sasuke, although much larger scaled Chidori's in comparison to before should be possible.

• "Naruto's Super Bijuu Dama is much stronger than the one he just used"

-False. BM Naruto's Super Bijuu Dama should've constituted for half this explosion [

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]
-This explosion, which is constituted by half of Naruto's TBB, is vastly larger than the previous one. One can clearly see this when looking at the mountains of the two, this explosion dwarfed them to a far greater extent.

• "Madara's Destruction Incarnate is much more powerful than Sasuke's"

-People claim since Rikudo Enhanced Kyuubi blocked the PS swipes, Sasuke's PS is somehow weaker than Madara's.
-Madara himself said his is comparable to Bijuu, even if we assumed he was speaking of the Kyuubi, a 100% Kyuubi doesn't begin to compare to a Rikudo Enhanced 50% Kyuubi; whose strength, durability and speed would be on a league of their own.
-Sasuke's PS has a smaller amount of chakra exerted into it, but the chakra that is outputted is much more potent due to Rikudo's chakra. I saw this image, which somewhat conveys the difference [

You must be registered for see links

]. Sasuke's attack was blocked, thus never reached its momentum's peak, yet created this far of a shockwave, Madara's shockwave reached a smaller distance despite reaching its full momentum. ---Don't forget Sasuke's full momentum allowing him to slice mountain ranges several times[

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] in a mere instant.

• "Sasuke didn't hit Naruto this chapter"

-Sasuke did hit Naruto to some extent with his incomplete Chidori, as portrayed here by the electricity [

You must be registered for see links

]. Naruto was thrown this far after being hit by Sasuke's hand [

You must be registered for see links

]. Now before people start saying "how come he was thrown far instead of pierced".. Sasuke's Chidori comes in differing variations, one more destructive while one penetrative. This is emphasised by the way in which the fingers are positioned, similar to the Third Raikage's Nukite mechanics. Here, the fingers are somewhat bent [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. One can clearly see in the first two scans that this creates a destructive force in contrast to the straight finger Chidori which creates penetrative power only. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

].
-These definitely portray that there is quite a difference between straight finger Chidori and bent fingered Chidori, somewhat comparable to Raikage's 4 Finger Nukite (had his fingers been more opened) and his lower amounts of fingers. So technically, Naruto was hit/blasted away much more than an attempted attempt to pierce through him like he pierced through Madara with his Chidori Eiso. And for the people who still think Naruto's durability was just so good, an attempt to pierce him ended up throwing him back.. Chidori Eiso is stated in the DB to be less penetrative than regular Chidori, thus Shinju Madara's durability being far above Naruto's suggests that if Sasuke attempted to cut him when he makes contact with him, he would.

1, i think kishi has been playing around with the sizes of the susano and kurama. it seems to me anyways that sasuke's PS is about the same size as his legged susano.

2, sure

3,this is a little subjective. the one where kurama biju dama went against the othere 5 bijuu has the picture pulled further back from the explosion. the one with sasuke and naruto is much closer this making the explosion look bigger. i would actually say they are closer to being the same size, although i believe that the first is slightly bigger.

3, susano power is subjective. to me, susano are going to be relatively the same strength. to me the size is erelavent as i think kishi has played with the sizes a little to fit what he wants to do with a particular scenario. the argument is that sasuke cut through madara's chibaku tensie and madara only cut through mountains. there is no evidence however that madara couldn't do the same thing. when madara cut mountains, he did so at a distance. sometimes he even cut through mountains at a distance while cutting through hashi's mokuton. i believe that madara could have had a similar feat in cutting the chibaku tensie just like sasuke. to me they are the same with sasuke's being able to fly.

4, as far as the chidori goes. when sasuke hit naruto with the chidori, or missed him as it doesn't really matter either way as it did nothing, he did so with a straight palm. when a chidori is activated the fingers are always bent. look at when he made the chidori with his susano, or against gaara, or any other time. it is only straight fingered when they go in to attack. so if he did in fact hit naruto, that means sasuke chidori is useless against naruto.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

naruto going easi peasi. fuuton resengan gg tbb gg

bm nardo > all suske believe et!!!!