*Facepalm* Main reason Hinata doesn't lose to Karin.

[bencoby]

Well it's simple to think about it .What purpose do you think the chakra chains are there for, straight up combat against a giant construct or support against it to hold it down. The only reason it was use for combat by Karin was due to her fangirling over Sasuke nearly dying when she didn't think about the situation and did not use them effectively (Support and Holding the Budha statue down) and we know how that turned out for her. The chakra Chains aren't made for head on combat they came from a sealing clan and sealing clans required chains to hold thing down. (Almost like Hashi and his Tailed beast catching conquest, he needed Mokuton to weaken them). Also Hinata isn't a snail she will see the chains coming for her and move out of the way leaving Karin open while she is retracting them for another attack.

Okay I see, but apart from that, there is no rule stating that she could only use it that way.
Moreover those chains would be coming at her from multiple directions. I know gentle fist movement is fast but then again I question if Hinata would be able to blow them all away.

 

[Swagdara Uchiha]

Okay I see, but apart from that, there is no rule stating that she could only use it that way.
Moreover those chains would be coming at her from multiple directions. I know gentle fist movement is fast but then again I question if Hinata would be able to blow them all away.

I'm no Hinata expert, but if she dodges them all she's cool, but if she can't it's game over. These fight are all about timing you have Karin: No combat experience but she has chains and sensory skills, meanwhile Hinata: Close combat experience also mid due to air palm. I want to give this to Karin but we have seen her chains only once and i'm not convinced enough whether she can control them at Kushi's level. Also trying to hit Hinata with chains is like trying to hit a mouse it would take time and by the time she does get close i doubt she would get her while she is in rotation.

 

[RikkuHina]

What if she was attacked with multiple chains? Could Hinata deflect them all? Could Karin keep it up long enough to find an opening?? Very interesting thread! :bye:

 

[bencoby]

I'm no Hinata expert, but if she dodges them all she's cool, but if she can't it's game over. These fight are all about timing you have Karin: No combat experience but she has chains and sensory skills, meanwhile Hinata: Close combat experience also mid due to air palm. I want to give this to Karin but we have seen her chains only once and i'm not convinced enough whether she can control them at Kushi's level. Also trying to hit Hinata with chains is like trying to hit a mouse it would take time and by the time she does get close i doubt she would get her while she is in rotation.

I on the other hand thinks this fight could go either way because of those damn chains. Its all on three factors either
(1) If Hinata is fast enough to stop all of them.
(2) If Hinata has enough power behind her techs to be able to push them away.
(3) If Hinata can close in quickly for a counter attack after the chains have attacked her.

 

[lanakui8]

Okay it's stated that she has the same power. But is it at the exact same condition that Kushina used it? It's almost like saying that the Uchiha have the same power in a Mangekyou; sure it's the same power, but it has different abilities and it's all up to how the wielder uses it. You can't just expect Karin's Chain control to be on the same level as Kushina out of nowhere especially since she was weakened from a Kurama extraction and Childbirth.

It's because 'same power' could refer to chakra chains in general that we can use things like the length of karin's chains and what she was capable of doing with them to determine how she would stand against kushina. and i think tearing up something thats larger than the average bijuu and can stalemate the gokage + cloaked alliance like shinsuusenjuu would be grounds for at least restraining a weakened 50% Kurama like kushina did in naruto's mind.

 

[Swagdara Uchiha]

I on the other hand thinks this fight could go either way because of those damn chains. Its all on three factors either
(1) If Hinata is fast enough to stop all of them.
(2) If Hinata has enough power behind her techs to be able to push them away.
(3) If Hinata can close in quickly for a counter attack after the chains have attacked her.

Well yes someone can put up factors on the fight to support their statement (No offence) i put up factors with Hinata being able to get to Karin. Also this might seem or not seem insignificant but Hinata was stopping Obito's wood stakes which should be falling at high velocity due to their shapes so Hinata should be able to move out of the way from the gibber and slower chains.

It's because 'same power' could refer to chakra chains in general that we can use things like the length of karin's chains and what she was capable of doing with them to determine how she would stand against kushina. and i think tearing up something thats larger than the average bijuu and can stalemate the gokage + cloaked alliance like shinsuusenjuu would be grounds for at least restraining a weakened 50% Kurama like kushina did in naruto's mind.

But there is also the Fact that GuruGuru was using a massively nerfed version of the Statue (No Sage Mode) which should stand smaller than the average Bijuu and should be majorly weaker compared to the Sage counterpart. Also remember that it was a Portion Of Kushina restraining 50% Kurama so that add more value to Kushina's Chakra Chain prowess.

 

[MightGuy23]

It's hard to say really because Hinata definetly beats Karin in close ranged combat but at the same time the chains that she now has are very powerful and are big in quantity as well. Karin also has her healing abilities and she is rather smart in this series. It's very 50/50 as it can go either way so I' not entirely sure.

 

[bencoby]

Well yes someone can put up factors on the fight to support their statement (No offence) i put up factors with Hinata being able to get to Karin. Also this might seem or not seem insignificant but Hinata was stopping Obito's wood stakes which should be falling at high velocity due to their shapes so Hinata should be able to move out of the way from the gibber and slowerss.

Okay but all that shows us is that she could react to 3 or 4 projectiles coming at her, but the chains are more than those woods.

It also doesn't show if she has enough power in her tech to push away a projectile as heavy or big as the chains.

Then again too it doesn't show if she is fast enough to close in for a counter attack before the next attack from her opponent.

 

[lanakui8]

But there is also the Fact that GuruGuru was using a massively nerfed version of the Statue (No Sage Mode) which should stand smaller than the average Bijuu and should be majorly weaker compared to the Sage counterpart. Also remember that it was a Portion Of Kushina restraining 50% Kurama so that add more value to Kushina's Chakra Chain prowess.

I didn't include Hashirama's shinsuusenjuu in any part of my analysis, so I don't see why it being far stronger and larger than spiral zetsu's one is relevant. Spiral zetsu's shinsuusenjuu is larger than a bijuu, as its head is about the same height as a bijuus while the buddah is sitting down. That's also not including how much space its backpack takes up.

Wait if you are saying that Kushina > Karin, then I'm fine with that. The point is that as strong as Kushina or not, Karin is very powerful especially for a female character.

 

[Swagdara Uchiha]

Okay but all that shows us is that she could react to 3 or 4 projectiles coming at her, but the chains are more than those woods.

It also doesn't show if she has enough power in her tech to push away a projectile as heavy or big as the chains.

Then again too it doesn't show if she is fast enough to close in for a counter attack before the next attack from her opponent.

The velocity of the Stakes is completely different than the chains it's simple physics (Mass, Velocity, and all that BS) the point is if Hinata can react and hit the steaks head on the she should be able to move out of the way from the chains.

I didn't include Hashirama's shinsuusenjuu in any part of my analysis, so I don't see why it being far stronger and larger than spiral zetsu's one is relevant. Spiral zetsu's shinsuusenjuu is larger than a bijuu, as its head is about the same height as a bijuus while the buddah is sitting down. That's also not including how much space its backpack takes up.

Wait if you are saying that Kushina > Karin, then I'm fine with that. The point is that as strong as Kushina or not, Karin is very powerful especially for a female character.

But it is a relevant fact you have to include the differences between the uses of the techniques also it wasn't necessarily taller than a bijuu 100% Kurama easily towers over it judging from the size, but it probably does tower the rest of the Bijuu if anything it towers over it would problaby be a boss summon. Allso you have to factor in the fact that the gokage had been expended from chakra after being left bead by Madara so it was Hiruzen VS Guruguru.
About the Karin being strong i have to Disagree with that it mainly something that i see from time to time; You can give the weakest character a powerful technique and that won't make them powerful it will just give them an arsenal to be reckoned with. A powerful charactes is someone who gained that power by sheer training Karin got the Chains out of nowhere for the sake of keeping her relevant to the story.

 

[lanakui8]

But it is a relevant fact you have to include the differences between the uses of the techniques

Why? None of my points have anything to do with the Hashirama's shinsuusenjuu.

also it wasn't necessarily taller than a bijuu 100% Kurama easily towers over it judging from the size, but it probably does tower the rest of the Bijuu if anything it towers over it would problaby be a boss summon. Allso you have to factor in the fact that the gokage had been expended from chakra after being left bead by Madara so it was Hiruzen VS Guruguru.

sure gokage at that point in time were running out of chakra. However, oonoki implied that they had been fighting the statue for a while, tired or not 3 kage level ninjas + an army of V1 cloaked is easily a force that a standard kage isn't going to be dealing with, and we know at least edo Hiruzen (who's most likely stronger than the individual members of the gokage) had full chakra yet could only stalemate the statue.

About the Karin being strong i have to Disagree with that it mainly something that i see from time to time; You can give the weakest character a powerful technique and that won't make them powerful it will just give them an arsenal to be reckoned with. A powerful charactes is someone who gained that power by sheer training Karin got the Chains out of nowhere for the sake of keeping her relevant to the story.

So.... if you gave konohomaru PS, he would still be weak? If you gave tenten bijuu mode she'd still be weak? The bolded is very funny as there are tons of powerful characters who did not get that way through training. Why Karin got that ability is irrelevant, she has it, and with it, she tore up a shinsuusenjuu that multiple kage, an army of cloaked alliance and edo hiruzen couldn't get passed. If you haven't noticed, Kishi does not have the time to put all these side characters into fights where they can show their stuff anymore. He has too many new versions of characters, too many new powerups and too much useless dialogue that he has to get through.

Karen's chakra chains, like a lot of the powers in the NV, were probably triggered by emotional distress of sasuke dieing which is why she couldn't pull them out until now.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Consider Karin got solo'd because she left her body wide open for attack, and didn't even manage to land a hit on GuGu, I don't see hoq she's gonna be able to hit a Hinata. I mean, come on, did you even see how GuGu approached Karin? It was SUCH a linear attack, yet she still got hit.

 

[lanakui8]

Consider Karin got solo'd because she left her body wide open for attack, and didn't even manage to land a hit on GuGu, I don't see hoq she's gonna be able to hit a Hinata. I mean, come on, did you even see how GuGu approached Karin? It was SUCH a linear attack, yet she still got hit.

well if Hinata has speed on par with GuGu, and Karin has to go through shinsuusenjuu first, then sure I can see karin losing to hinata.

 

[Made in Heaven]

well if Hinata has speed on par with GuGu, and Karin has to go through shinsuusenjuu first, then sure I can see karin losing to hinata.

Karin's chains aren't gonna hit Hinata, since they spread outward. All one needs to do is stay directly in front of Karin to keep themselves
safe. And no, Karin didn't have to ''Go through Shinsuusenju'' first to get to GuGu. She destroyed and then was attacked by Gugu. She literally makes no attempt to stop GuGu with her chains in order to defend herself.

 

[Swagdara Uchiha]

sure gokage at that point in time were running out of chakra. However, oonoki implied that they had been fighting the statue for a while, tired or not 3 kage level ninjas + an army of V1 cloaked is easily a force that a standard kage isn't going to be dealing with, and we know at least edo Hiruzen (who's most likely stronger than the individual members of the gokage) had full chakra yet could only stalemate the statue.
So.... if you gave konohomaru PS, he would still be weak? If you gave tenten bijuu mode she'd still be weak? The bolded is very funny as there are tons of powerful characters who did not get that way through training. Why Karin got that ability is irrelevant, she has it, and with it, she tore up a shinsuusenjuu that multiple kage, an army of cloaked alliance and edo hiruzen couldn't get passed. If you haven't noticed, Kishi does not have the time to put all these side characters into fights where they can show their stuff anymore. He has too many new versions of characters, too many new powerups and too much useless dialogue that he has to get through.

At the point the Five Kage were fodder when compared to GuruGuru they didn't even have that much chakra to begin with if they did the would have stood a chance. The V1 shinobi are irrelevant since Madara just mowed them down like nothing. In the end It was just Hiruzen so if a switch were too happen between Hokages he would have been taken out like nothing he was just a bad matchup.
Yes Exactly because they would not even be able to utilize the technique to it's full extent they would still be weak (Like when Ten-Ten got the treasured tools) albeit they have a strong deference which is keeping them alive but they wouldn't even know how to handle situations Hence Karin she jumped like a fool and nearly got killed. So you are okay with ***Pull Powerups?

 

[lanakui8]

Karin's chains aren't gonna hit Hinata, since they spread outward. All one needs to do is stay directly in front of Karin to keep themselves
safe. And no, Karin didn't have to ''Go through Shinsuusenju'' first to get to GuGu. She destroyed and then was attacked by Gugu. She literally makes no attempt to stop GuGu with her chains in order to defend herself.

Wait, so you are saying that Karin can't send her chakra chains in front of her or that she can't even control where they go? Seems legit.

Karin did have to go through shinsuusenjuu first, in fact her chains were still attacking the construct when she was stabbed by gugu. So no, Karin getting hit when she's simultaneously dealing with shinsuusenjuu and gugu in no way means that hinata can hit karin before getting killed by chakra chains.

At the point the Five Kage were fodder when compared to GuruGuru they didn't even have that much chakra to begin with if they did the would have stood a chance.

Considering they were battling the construct a while before then, and they had just started to run out of chakra, I kind of doubt that. But even so, karin doing that to a construct that can even compete with the gokage is a massive feat for her.

The V1 shinobi are irrelevant since Madara just mowed them down like nothing.

Why does Madara mowing them down like nothing make them irrelevant? Madara is someone who's way faster and probably physically stronger than SM Naruto BEFORE he stole Hashirama's sennin mode. SM Naruto was tossing boss summons into the clouds. And the V1 shinobi were capable of stopping the juubi's tails.

In the end It was just Hiruzen so if a switch were too happen between Hokages he would have been taken out like nothing he was just a bad matchup.
Yes Exactly because they would not even be able to utilize the technique to it's full extent they would still be weak (Like when Ten-Ten got the treasured tools) albeit they have a strong deference which is keeping them alive but they wouldn't even know how to handle situations Hence Karin she jumped like a fool and nearly got killed. So you are okay with ***Pull Powerups?

...how would anyone being able to use PS be weak? Even if you don't utilize it to its fullest extent, PS would solo 99% of the narutoverse. Same with naruto's bijuumode.

I don't like ***pull powerups, but i'm not going to sit there and pretend the powerups don't exist just because I don't like them.

 

[MightGuy23]

In all honesty I see the brute force I the chains as well as the number of chains that come out of Karin able to outnumber and overpower Hinata.