[Discussion] experience can be true knowlege..

minamoto

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i------------------>.

i noticed in some meat vs vegetables debates that meat eaters love to criticize one veganz..but what i noticed more is that this vegan train hard and when he swicthed to being vegan he noticed teh change in good way..so this change experienced by experience >>>>>every lazy meatotarian's proofs ...

sience facts start always with hypothesis and hypothesis go through testing in order to become facts no????..
 

YowYan

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Facts, while Trollmoto is still not a vegan for some reason, even though he's taking about it.


Already been debunked over the past few weeks. The average amount of fiber intake of the "vegans" in this study was around 20gm, which is not even half of what the average vegans daily intake is. Just another biased study, probably financed by the livestock industry as one of many.

It is difficult to consider a study on bone strength/fractures when vitamin D and resistance training, both of which are crucial for bone strength, werenot accounted for

On the other hand; Way to ignore all the studies that prove that dairy and meat raise the chance of several cancer types, diabetes, heart- and cardiovascular diseases, etc. The list goes on.

It's a silly thing to pick on, true or not, when meat eaters are at higher risk of every disease and disorder know to humans.
 
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Shanks

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I eat meat and respect people and have friends who eat vegan , i do hectic workout and meat food is key requirement for you body building . Yes , they are vegan body builders as well but as far as i see not many have succeeded after turning vegan .

I may quit someday maybe when i age around 40 ish but let me enjoy my youth with good steak for now ;)
 

YowYan

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I eat meat and respect people and have friends who eat vegan , i do hectic workout and meat food is key requirement for you body building . Yes , they are vegan body builders as well but as far as i see not many have succeeded after turning vegan .

I may quit someday maybe when i age around 40 ish but let me enjoy my youth with good steak for now ;)
Apparently its not a key requirement for bodybuilding. If people do not succeed at bodybuilding as vegans, the problem lies with their approach, not the vegan diet.

I was also just testing the validity of these claims by hitting the gym last spring and summer. I noticed that muscle building took a little longer on a vegan diet, but strength and recovery was better. I lifted more than I did as a meat-eater.
 
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Shanks

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Apparently its not a key requirement for bodybuilding. If people do not succeed at bodybuilding as vegans, the problem lies with their approach, not the vegan diet.

I was also just testing the validity of these claims by hitting the gym last spring and summer. I noticed that muscle building took a little longer on a vegan diet, but strength and recovery was better. I lifted more than I did as a meat-eater.
I see that is interesting i will check with vegan approach at some point in time .
 
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salamander uchiha

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Already been debunked over the past few weeks. The average amount of fiber intake of the "vegans" in this study was around 20gm, which is not even half of what the average vegans daily intake is. Just another biased study, probably financed by the livestock industry as one of many.

It is difficult to consider a study on bone strength/fractures when vitamin D and resistance training, both of which are crucial for bone strength, werenot accounted for

On the other hand; Way to ignore all the studies that prove that dairy and meat raise the chance of several cancer types, diabetes, heart- and cardiovascular diseases, etc. The list goes on.

It's a silly thing to pick on, true or not, when meat eaters are at higher risk of every disease and disorder know to humans.
Whatever you say, fibre plays no part in muscle power generation, so that's a mute point. Claims of causing cancer hold no weight, since people don't purely consume those. However, vegans stay strictly vegan, which is why they were used relative to omnivores, so..

Do you want to give me a list of Olympic lifters who are vegan and up there at the top🤔

What about Olympic wrestlers🤔

and Olympic sprinters🤔

I'm genuinely quite curious.

u r anoying...i'll just ignore u from now on..
You try and talk a good game, so why aren't you a vegan yet🤔
 

YowYan

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Whatever you say, fibre plays no part in muscle power generation, so that's a mute point. Claims of causing cancer hold no weight, since people don't purely consume those. However, vegans stay strictly vegan, which is why they were used relative to omnivores, so..

Do you want to give me a list of Olympic lifters who are vegan and up there at the top🤔

What about Olympic wrestlers🤔

and Olympic sprinters🤔

I'm genuinely quite curious.



You try and talk a good game, so why aren't you a vegan yet🤔
It was an example of the vagueness of this study. The fibre intake, that is.
Numerous studies have shown that across the globe, the . Moreover, research suggests that the most critical factor for maintaining healthy bones is engaging in physical activity and not diet itself.

Dr Nagra’s first qualm with the study concerned the vegan group’s calcium intake. In this study, the vegans consumed on average 591mg of calcium per day, which is well under the RDA of at least 700mg. Conversely, the meat-eating group was consuming over 1000mg per day.

However, when the researchers adjusted for calcium intake, alongside confounding variables such as age, smoking, BMI, the magnitude of risk was decreased. This means that while these factors played a role, it didn’t account for the increased risk.

While it is common knowledge that all vegans should at least supplement vitamins B12 and D, only about half of the vegans in the study were taking supplements.

Dr Nagra views this as a ‘huge red flag’. This means that the study did not assess or adjust for these vitamin intakes in the participants, and they probably had deficiencies. As vitamin D is incredibly important for good bone health, this is a huge oversight. He counters that when we account for these variables, those eating a vegan diet are not at a higher risk of broken bones. High fracture risk is not inherent to plant-based diets.

A properly supplemented wholefoods vegan diet has been touted as the , and this cannot be overturned by a study which can be debunked so easily.

I can send you a list of vegan athletes of various fields but it'd be easier if you just went on Netflix and watch Gamechangers. Plenty of vegan pro athletes to get acquainted with. Here is the list though
 

salamander uchiha

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It was an example of the vagueness of this study. The fibre intake, that is.
Numerous studies have shown that across the globe, the . Moreover, research suggests that the most critical factor for maintaining healthy bones is engaging in physical activity and not diet itself.

Dr Nagra’s first qualm with the study concerned the vegan group’s calcium intake. In this study, the vegans consumed on average 591mg of calcium per day, which is well under the RDA of at least 700mg. Conversely, the meat-eating group was consuming over 1000mg per day.

However, when the researchers adjusted for calcium intake, alongside confounding variables such as age, smoking, BMI, the magnitude of risk was decreased. This means that while these factors played a role, it didn’t account for the increased risk.

While it is common knowledge that all vegans should at least supplement vitamins B12 and D, only about half of the vegans in the study were taking supplements.

Dr Nagra views this as a ‘huge red flag’. This means that the study did not assess or adjust for these vitamin intakes in the participants, and they probably had deficiencies. As vitamin D is incredibly important for good bone health, this is a huge oversight. He counters that when we account for these variables, those eating a vegan diet are not at a higher risk of broken bones. High fracture risk is not inherent to plant-based diets.

A properly supplemented wholefoods vegan diet has been touted as the , and this cannot be overturned by a study which can be debunked so easily.
Dr Nagra's qualms mean nothing, one cannot get calcium from vegetables sources as easily from say milk. There's a reason they were deficient in calcium (it wasn't by choice), people don't like to sit at the table for an hour Gourdon on vegetables to ensure they get enough intake.

The fact you have to supplement with B12 and D actually shows that veganism isn't sustainable and requires supplementation to make it viable.

While an omnivore is the ideal state, one could lean more towards vegetables, but with meats/milk and eggs one should cover most shortcomings and there won't be any need to adjust for flopping.

I can send you a list of vegan athletes of various fields but it'd be easier if you just went on Netflix and watch Gamechangers. Plenty of vegan pro athletes to get acquainted with. Here is the list though
I'm not going to watch anything on Netflix, just a list of elite Olympians in the fields I requested will suffice. Also, their ranking if you have it to hand. The Olympics are heavily regulated when it comes to performance enhancers, so one can gauge better.
 

YowYan

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Dr Nagra's qualms mean nothing, one cannot get calcium from vegetables sources as easily from say milk. There's a reason they were deficient in calcium (it wasn't by choice), people don't like to sit at the table for an hour Gourdon on vegetables to ensure they get enough intake.

The fact you have to supplement with B12 and D actually shows that veganism isn't sustainable and requires supplementation to make it viable.

While an omnivore is the ideal state, one could lean more towards vegetables, but with meats/milk and eggs one should cover most shortcomings and there won't be any need to adjust for flopping.



I'm not going to watch anything on Netflix, just a list of elite Olympians in the fields I requested will suffice. Also, their ranking if you have it to hand. The Olympics are heavily regulated when it comes to performance enhancers, so one can gauge better.
Yet again, you're just proving that non-vegans have zero understanding of nutrition.

Cows do not produce calcium themselves. They get it from plants and there are countless plants that provide the calcium, iron, and other minerals that your body needs..

The cow is a medium while the source are plants.

Livestock are often fed vitamin B12 supplements. Clueless meat eaters like to point out the fact that vegans have to supplement b12 yet forget the fact that the meat they eat has been supplemented too. Vitamin D is something everyone has a deficiency of during winter. I always see a bottle of vitamin D at people's homes and none of them are vegan.

When will you admit that you have a lot to learn regarding. There are countless vegans that go on 10 to 40 years on a vegan diet, show their positive blood results, yet people with a very limited understanding such as yourself dismiss logic time and again.

Here's one list of vegan olympic champions.

Plenty more if you do your research
 

salamander uchiha

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Yet again, you're just proving that non-vegans have zero understanding of nutrition.

Cows do not produce calcium themselves. They get it from plants and there are countless plants that provide the calcium, iron, and other minerals that your body needs..

The cow is a medium while the source are plants.
You are stuck up that ass of yours aren't you. A cows genetic make up, its 4 stomach, it's herbivorous genes play a part in it's calcium production. Humans don't start eating grass and start producing calcium. Go ahead start eating grass or hay and tell me how it goes.

Livestock are often fed vitamin B12 supplements. Clueless meat eaters like to point out the fact that vegans have to supplement b12 yet forget the fact that the meat they eat has been supplemented too. Vitamin D is something everyone has a deficiency of during winter. I always see a bottle of vitamin D at people's homes and none of them are vegan.
Nope, some farms that have high turnover do. That's a joke of a comeback if I've ever read one. Animals naturally (by consuming vitamin B12 rich foods) and have vitamin B12 in them and to a degree that if one consumes them they get ample amounts of it from them. No, not everybody has a deficiency of vitamin D, people living in the wrong climate due to their genes might.

You should cut back with the outlandish claims.

When will you admit that you have a lot to learn regarding. There are countless vegans that go on 10 to 40 years on a vegan diet, show their positive blood results, yet people with a very limited understanding such as yourself dismiss logic time and again.
That all you have to say, we were being specific to athletes, and now your going to general population. And like you're outlandish claims, I will claim they supplement.

Here's one list of vegan olympic champions.

Plenty more if you do your research
I requested it in specific fields, you gave me a generic list from the past. And even then 1 per field. I thought you would have something more up to date in say wrestling like Sadulaev, or sprinters like Bolt or powerlifters. In todays day and age, where conception is fiercer and old records are shattered. In an age where nutrition science has advanced significantly. The athletes of the past minus Karelin play in comparison to the one's today.

You can do better than that Yowie.
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Actually Yowie I'm out, I'm just too busy these days.
 
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YowYan

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You are stuck up that ass of yours aren't you. A cows genetic make up, its 4 stomach, it's herbivorous genes play a part in it's calcium production. Humans don't start eating grass and start producing calcium. Go ahead start eating grass or hay and tell me how it goes.



Nope, some farms that have high turnover do. That's a joke of a comeback if I've ever read one. Animals naturally have vitamin B12 in them and to a degree that one gets ample amounts of ir from them. No, not everybody has a deficiency of vitamin D, people living in the wrong climate due to their genes might.

You should cut back with the outlandish claims.



That all you have to say, we were being specific to athletes, and now your going to general population. And like you're outlandish claims, I will claim they supplement.



I requested it in specific fields, you gave me a generic list from the past. And even then 1 per field. I thought you would have something more up to date in say wrestling like Sadulaev, or sprinters like Bolt or powerlifters. In todays day and age, where conception is fiercer and old records are shattered. In an age where nutrition science has advanced significantly. The athletes of the past minus Karelin play in comparison to the one's today.

You can do better than that Yowie.
"The Framingham Offspring study found that 39 percent of the general population may be in the low normal and deficient B12 blood level range, and it was not just vegetarians or older people. Most interestingly there was no difference between those ate meat, poultry, or fish and those who did not eat those foods. The people with the highest B12 blood levels were those who were taking B12 supplements and eating B12 fortified cereals. "

A large percentage of the population show signs of b12 deficiency at some point yet only 2% of the global population is vegan/vegetarian.

And do you actually know where b12 comes from? Its a bacteria won out of soil. Which is the reason grass-fed large grazers have a decent amount of this vitamin. The reason humans are often deprived of this mineral is due to the demineralization of soil in agriculture and the proper sanitizing of crops.

And its a fact that omnivores are adviced to supplement the same vitamins as vegans are. You read one or two articles in your life regarding, and think you are qualified to talk. Maybe you should sit down with my girlfriend's uncle who just ran a full marathon as a 8 year vegan without any deficiencies in his blood.

The documentary Gamechangers shows you precisely the fields you requested. Your choice if you want to watch it or not. Maybe you should, you'll learn a thing or two.
 

salamander uchiha

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And do you actually know where b12 comes from? Its a bacteria won out of soil. Which is the reason grass-fed large grazers have a decent amount of this vitamin. The reason humans are often deprived of this mineral is due to the demineralization of soil in agriculture and the proper sanitizing of crops.

And its a fact that omnivores are adviced to supplement the same vitamins as vegans are. You read one or two articles in your life regarding, and think you are qualified to talk. Maybe you should sit down with my girlfriend's uncle who just ran a full marathon as a 8 year vegan without any deficiencies in his blood.
For some reason you're ignoring g the actual discussion and side tracking. Power sports aren't a marathon, endurance sports + slow release cards go hand in hand. Running a marathon is good on him, but that has no bearing on the discussion. Even elderly people "run" marathons, does that matter? Vegans are still living and breathing, walking around, so are omnivores and carnivores, does that have any relevance. Do you see how that has no relevance, just like running a marathon (requires extreme mental discipline above all else).

You probably didn't read I was out, I am out, I'm just too busy. And I'm too courteous to troll you. Have a good day.
 

YowYan

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For some reason you're ignoring g the actual discussion and side tracking. Power sports aren't a marathon, endurance sports + slow release cards go hand in hand. Running a marathon is good on him, but that has no bearing on the discussion. Even elderly people "run" marathons, does that matter? Vegans are still living and breathing, walking around, so are omnivores and carnivores, does that have any relevance. Do you see how that has no relevance, just like running a marathon (requires extreme mental discipline above all else).

You probably didn't read I was out, I am out, I'm just too busy. And I'm too courteous to troll you. Have a good day.
Like I said, the sport fields you requested are presented in the documentary. Short sprinters, long distance sprinters, boxing, powerlifting, bodybuilding, MMA, etc.

You forget the underlying point. It is possible and proven that you can live healthy and dominate a sport as a vegan. You do not need animal protein to thrive, and above all, animals do not need to suffer.

May you find wisdom and compassion some day
 

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Well I was actually just joking but if you want to go there we can compare the amount of omnivorous bodybuilders and herbivorous bodybuilders and something tells me there are maybe just a few more omnivorous bodybuilders out there lol... I am in both the medical and physical fitness business and I just maybe know a thing or two about this so if you want we can definitely go there lmao.
 

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Well I was actually just joking but if you want to go there we can compare the amount of omnivorous bodybuilders and herbivorous bodybuilders and something tells me there are maybe just a few more omnivorous bodybuilders out there lol... I am in both the medical and physical fitness business and I just maybe know a thing or two about this so if you want we can definitely go there lmao.
Jokes aside, falsehoods need to be corrected. Anyways, vegans and vegetarians only made up about 2% of the global population. 2019 showed a major increase of vegans and vegetarians up to 14% of the global population. So, obviously the amount of omni bodybuilders outnumber the veggie ones. It's kind of a no-brainer, really.

If you have an interesting point/remark regarding the industry, I'm interested
 
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