[Debate] Exam Results Deciding your fate
- Thread starter Akаsh
- Start date
Kaneki Kun
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2012
- Messages
- 5,019
- Reaction score
- 474
Sadly that's the way this world works, oh well.
Yusuke Urameshi
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
- Joined
- May 27, 2012
- Messages
- 8,146
- Reaction score
- 710
His editing is amazing.
OT: I agree for the large part. Education nowadays is all about getting the grade and satisfying what the teachers want to see on that test. I hated that about school. My class' salutatorian was one of those girls that studied religiously, but she's an idiot. Education is awesome, but the educational system sucks. There's too much emphasis on getting good grades and doing well on tests.
But, alot of the stuff you learn doesn't become wasted. Alot of it can be used as trivia.
It's always cool to be the guy that knows something about random things and can talk about it when the conversation permits.
OT: I agree for the large part. Education nowadays is all about getting the grade and satisfying what the teachers want to see on that test. I hated that about school. My class' salutatorian was one of those girls that studied religiously, but she's an idiot. Education is awesome, but the educational system sucks. There's too much emphasis on getting good grades and doing well on tests.
But, alot of the stuff you learn doesn't become wasted. Alot of it can be used as trivia.
It's always cool to be the guy that knows something about random things and can talk about it when the conversation permits.
Conspirator.
Kage in the Making 👑
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2014
- Messages
- 19,435
- Reaction score
- 3,378
Unfortunately, this is true. In the final years of school, a lot of students used to stay back for at least 10 minutes whenever we got our tests or exams back, to "argue" for an extra mark or two. Sometimes there were major errors, but most of the time it was about something petty or trivial. But, it is what it is and can't really do much to change it.
GhostProject
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 1,793
- Reaction score
- 212
Education needs to be overhauled in some way. I'm not sure if it's better to start with the quality of it, or even making it accessible ($$ is the name of the game). I'd like to simply give my perspective of American College Education, and maybe I can add something to this discussion.
I go to a university, and it's all about money. Half the classes are not even worth it, because most of them are led by students working on their P.H.D's that don't understand people or students. Many times, language is a barrier even. I wouldn't have a problem with it if my program didn't require a 3.6 and I wasn't paying a ridiculous amount of money to be there.
Most of the time it's more useful to skip the class, go intense on 1 hour studying, and then see a different instructor during his office hours (or join a fraternity that somehow always manages to have past exams or upcoming exam answers). Paying for these terrible non-professors, getting screwed on rent and utilities, and paying for facilities such as Health services only to have to wait 3 weeks for an appointment with a Nurse or to see more kids working on their M.D's at urgent care. All under a severe lack of sleep. (It's just what happens between all the noise, assignments, and bad roommates you get).
The worst part: You're trapped once you take out that first loan. The only out is to complete it and get a $30k+ job, which secures their profit regardless of whether you enjoy it or whether their services were adequate. No quality check.
Tl;Dr To my 18 year old self: Do not get a student loan and join the educational money farm. Go get a bank loan, kickstarter, and start a business, it's the only choice you actually ever had. Take the red pill. /End rant
I go to a university, and it's all about money. Half the classes are not even worth it, because most of them are led by students working on their P.H.D's that don't understand people or students. Many times, language is a barrier even. I wouldn't have a problem with it if my program didn't require a 3.6 and I wasn't paying a ridiculous amount of money to be there.
Most of the time it's more useful to skip the class, go intense on 1 hour studying, and then see a different instructor during his office hours (or join a fraternity that somehow always manages to have past exams or upcoming exam answers). Paying for these terrible non-professors, getting screwed on rent and utilities, and paying for facilities such as Health services only to have to wait 3 weeks for an appointment with a Nurse or to see more kids working on their M.D's at urgent care. All under a severe lack of sleep. (It's just what happens between all the noise, assignments, and bad roommates you get).
The worst part: You're trapped once you take out that first loan. The only out is to complete it and get a $30k+ job, which secures their profit regardless of whether you enjoy it or whether their services were adequate. No quality check.
Tl;Dr To my 18 year old self: Do not get a student loan and join the educational money farm. Go get a bank loan, kickstarter, and start a business, it's the only choice you actually ever had. Take the red pill. /End rant
Yusuke Urameshi
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
- Joined
- May 27, 2012
- Messages
- 8,146
- Reaction score
- 710
What college do you go to?
GhostProject
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 1,793
- Reaction score
- 212
Mizzou. My experience there just hasn't been that good at all. I assume it can get much better and equally much worse at other colleges.
Tennis Robot
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2013
- Messages
- 8,733
- Reaction score
- 1,024
I think there are two different parties of people who tend to be in disagreement with tests being so important, and both ultimately have differing reasons for it (which creates a problem). I won't go into detail about it right now. I agree with it though, for the most part. It varies with subject material of course, but I believe that the ability to perform under pressure is critical.
Yusuke Urameshi
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
- Joined
- May 27, 2012
- Messages
- 8,146
- Reaction score
- 710
I'm at IU and it's pretty good. My Chem. professor last semester was Indian, but his English could still be understood through his accent. And for some of the classes here, they have clicker questions worth points, so you can't skip without your grade taking a hit. And typically, going to class is worth it, especially in my Psych class, where the prof. will randomly give us extra credit for showing up. lol My Calc. professor is an imbecile, though. She sucks.
I think I took out like a $3000 loan for the whole academic year, and I think that's mostly paid off, if not completely. My dad losing his job years ago helped me get a scholarship where my tuition is free, and because of that, I got a different scholarship that pretty much pays for everything else (minus the $3000 we paid). It's great because my family makes way more money now than what the initial family income for the scholarship allowed for, and the scholarship can't be taken away unless I do poorly in school (lol good joke). So I'm pretty happy.
Aim64C
Anbu Operative 🎭
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2012
- Messages
- 3,681
- Reaction score
- 608
*cringe*
I hope he isn't planning on a career in music entertainment.
... Nevermind... considering the stuff that sells in the American market, today... he'll be a star in no time.
*sigh*
The problem is that he basically insists that he doesn't need to learn things and can simply be successful through the will to be successful.
If you -truly- have a will to be successful, you will understand that knowledge is a way to amplify/multiply your efforts. This does not necessarily mean a degree, nor does it mean that one must go to college.
However, if you think that you're going to be able to be successful by saying: "**** learning" and just trying to beat your head against a wall until you're rich... then you'll die beating your head against a wall. Or end up in one of the lucrative, but risky underground economies that come with a short life expectancy.
Degrees are not necessary for jobs, and in some cases a degree is even a reason why someone is -not- hired (increasingly so in a world where the degree comes with expectations of higher pay and the job is either unnecessary or the degree is not specifically in the field of employment). They do open doors for people who are steering down a relative career path, but they are not essential.
Nor are degrees a life sentence. Just because you get a degree in something does not mean you are forever confined to that narrow area - nor does it mean that you must return to get a different degree if you want to shift career paths.
Still, the more technical your field - the more an employer wants some degree of assurance that you know what the hell you are talking about. You do that through, at the very least, demonstrating skill competency. If you don't have a degree - a list of accomplishments related to the field can work. You may not be an electronics engineer with a degree - but if you have built your own circuits or something - it stands as weight that you do know what you are talking about (and can even be a heavier deciding factor in employment than the degree - someone with a degree may not necessarily be as sure-footed in actually making the rubber meet the road).
Employment isn't necessary for success, either. One can operate his/her own business as an independent tradesman (where unions won't kill you for intruding on their territory... you think I'm joking... peoples' houses go up in flames and pictures of their daughter walking alone show up in the mail over this stuff - yes, in America:
As I said - watch out for the unions:
" According to court papers and to coverage by the Buffalo News, the charges against them include stabbing a knife into the neck of a construction company president, throwing hot coffee at non-union workers, pouring sand into gas tanks and transmissions of 17 construction vehicles, and threatening sexual assault against the wife of a company representative. The racketeering case was first filed in 2008.
According to court papers, the executive who was stabbed in the neck asked a union organizer what benefit he would get if he hired members of the union. "You guys slash my tires, stab me in the neck, try to beat me up," he protested. "What are the positives?"
"The positives," reportedly replied the organizer, "are that the negatives you are complaining about would go away."
...
AFL-CIO lawyer Jonathan D. Newman, quoted by the Buffalo News, says his union is "not condoning the allegations or arguing that union officials are completely immune from prosecution." Rather, it is trying to make sure that federal law is not being interpreted in such a way as to have a chilling effect on "legitimate union activity."
The definition of legitimate activity is one of the questions at issue.
The Supreme Court determined in 1973 that union violence up to a point is permissible. Under certain circumstances, violent acts by union members cannot be prosecuted under federal law as extortion or racketeering. "
"• In 1905, Governor Frank Steunenberg (D-Idaho) was assassinated by members of the militant Western Federation of Miners, due to his refusal to cave to their demands.
• In 1990, the Teamsters Union in New York City struck against the New York Daily News, and pelted replacement drivers with bricks, rocks, and baseball bats, and one Teamster was charged with transporting Molotov cocktails.
• In 1991, Steelworkers Local 5668 in West Virginia was found responsible for committing over 700 act of violence against strikebreakers, including two house bombings, six house shootings, four arsons, and 43 death threats.
• In 1993, 16,000 members of the United Mine Workers went on strike in West Virginia. Non-union subcontractor Eddie York refused to walk out, and was shot in the head by union thugs. Callously endorsing the murder, Richard Trumka (now head of the AFL-CIO, and widely known as Obama’s puppet-master), said "if you strike a match and put your finger in, common sense tells you you're going to burn your finger."
• In 1997, Teamsters Local 769 in Miami ordered a strike against UPS, and UPS driver Rod Carter, refusing to strike, was stopped and stabbed with an ice pick while on his route. Another driver testified that union bosses sanctioned the stabbing.
• In 2005, Andrew Shomers of Laborers Union Local 91 in Buffalo, N.Y. pleaded guilty to vandalizing local housing authority offices and firebombing workers on an asbestos-removal project."
So... yeah...
If you can avoid getting killed by the unions - you can apply your trade, freely, without a degree or becoming a union storm trooper.
I hope he isn't planning on a career in music entertainment.
... Nevermind... considering the stuff that sells in the American market, today... he'll be a star in no time.
*sigh*
The problem is that he basically insists that he doesn't need to learn things and can simply be successful through the will to be successful.
If you -truly- have a will to be successful, you will understand that knowledge is a way to amplify/multiply your efforts. This does not necessarily mean a degree, nor does it mean that one must go to college.
However, if you think that you're going to be able to be successful by saying: "**** learning" and just trying to beat your head against a wall until you're rich... then you'll die beating your head against a wall. Or end up in one of the lucrative, but risky underground economies that come with a short life expectancy.
Degrees are not necessary for jobs, and in some cases a degree is even a reason why someone is -not- hired (increasingly so in a world where the degree comes with expectations of higher pay and the job is either unnecessary or the degree is not specifically in the field of employment). They do open doors for people who are steering down a relative career path, but they are not essential.
Nor are degrees a life sentence. Just because you get a degree in something does not mean you are forever confined to that narrow area - nor does it mean that you must return to get a different degree if you want to shift career paths.
Still, the more technical your field - the more an employer wants some degree of assurance that you know what the hell you are talking about. You do that through, at the very least, demonstrating skill competency. If you don't have a degree - a list of accomplishments related to the field can work. You may not be an electronics engineer with a degree - but if you have built your own circuits or something - it stands as weight that you do know what you are talking about (and can even be a heavier deciding factor in employment than the degree - someone with a degree may not necessarily be as sure-footed in actually making the rubber meet the road).
Employment isn't necessary for success, either. One can operate his/her own business as an independent tradesman (where unions won't kill you for intruding on their territory... you think I'm joking... peoples' houses go up in flames and pictures of their daughter walking alone show up in the mail over this stuff - yes, in America:
You must be registered for see links
).As I said - watch out for the unions:
You must be registered for see links
" According to court papers and to coverage by the Buffalo News, the charges against them include stabbing a knife into the neck of a construction company president, throwing hot coffee at non-union workers, pouring sand into gas tanks and transmissions of 17 construction vehicles, and threatening sexual assault against the wife of a company representative. The racketeering case was first filed in 2008.
According to court papers, the executive who was stabbed in the neck asked a union organizer what benefit he would get if he hired members of the union. "You guys slash my tires, stab me in the neck, try to beat me up," he protested. "What are the positives?"
"The positives," reportedly replied the organizer, "are that the negatives you are complaining about would go away."
...
AFL-CIO lawyer Jonathan D. Newman, quoted by the Buffalo News, says his union is "not condoning the allegations or arguing that union officials are completely immune from prosecution." Rather, it is trying to make sure that federal law is not being interpreted in such a way as to have a chilling effect on "legitimate union activity."
The definition of legitimate activity is one of the questions at issue.
The Supreme Court determined in 1973 that union violence up to a point is permissible. Under certain circumstances, violent acts by union members cannot be prosecuted under federal law as extortion or racketeering. "
You must be registered for see links
"• In 1905, Governor Frank Steunenberg (D-Idaho) was assassinated by members of the militant Western Federation of Miners, due to his refusal to cave to their demands.
• In 1990, the Teamsters Union in New York City struck against the New York Daily News, and pelted replacement drivers with bricks, rocks, and baseball bats, and one Teamster was charged with transporting Molotov cocktails.
• In 1991, Steelworkers Local 5668 in West Virginia was found responsible for committing over 700 act of violence against strikebreakers, including two house bombings, six house shootings, four arsons, and 43 death threats.
• In 1993, 16,000 members of the United Mine Workers went on strike in West Virginia. Non-union subcontractor Eddie York refused to walk out, and was shot in the head by union thugs. Callously endorsing the murder, Richard Trumka (now head of the AFL-CIO, and widely known as Obama’s puppet-master), said "if you strike a match and put your finger in, common sense tells you you're going to burn your finger."
• In 1997, Teamsters Local 769 in Miami ordered a strike against UPS, and UPS driver Rod Carter, refusing to strike, was stopped and stabbed with an ice pick while on his route. Another driver testified that union bosses sanctioned the stabbing.
• In 2005, Andrew Shomers of Laborers Union Local 91 in Buffalo, N.Y. pleaded guilty to vandalizing local housing authority offices and firebombing workers on an asbestos-removal project."
So... yeah...
If you can avoid getting killed by the unions - you can apply your trade, freely, without a degree or becoming a union storm trooper.