[Theory] Events II

Waltz

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Events I: [ ]​


Discrepancy

Examining canonical history, it has been repetitively recorded that those who directly possessed and inherited Hagoromo's body and through it were granted unparalleled surges of stamina [which is the basis of Chakra] and physical energy have always triumphed against the second half of Hagoromo's dichotomy; that is, those who directly possessed and inherited Hagoromo's eyes and through it gained chakra powers and mental energy. It was further noted that dichotomoy was of the most perfect 'unity'; which then only highlights discrepancy.

The Senju ancestor, Ashura, is portrayed wearing a Shinobi headband symbolizing that he was not only in accordance with Hagoromo's teachings but that his ideals were overall more reflective of the Sennin than his elder sibling. Though both the Uchiha ancestor and Senju ancestor received equal portions of Hagoromo's composition; the Younger son actually received a greater portion as his characteristics, ideals and methods which would have been more reflective of the Rikudo. It would have been a part of Hagoromo he unconsciously inherited----the entire idea of love being necessary for piece and Hagoromo accepting this as the requirement for a successor further highlights this. It could either be the case that Hagoromo already knew who he would have chosen to be successor via luminous revelation or deciphering it though observation over time. The latter being the greater plausibility as, it . The entire idea is to highlight that Hagoromo's dichotomy was actually unbalanced; not only due to the Jubi of course but due to human qualities.

_____


Calamity

The prior mentioning's, though they are surrounding Hagoromo and his offspring does not necessarily point to him being responsible for such an unbalance. In actuality, though some may and could claim his choice of successor was actually biased, as one son had a greater inheritance of qualities as opposed to the other: It was an occurrence directly unrelated to Hagoromo himself, but rather his mother Kaguya: She came to the land crafted by the Shinju in order to gain omnipotence. A power she then used to establish an incompletely peace. In all points, it aligns with Indra's idea that Power was the key to peace. Manifestly, she was not a creation of the Progenitor as it was delicate with it's creations . The Shinju devolved into the Jubi---a more maneuverable form----in order to reclaim it's belongings. What is remarkable is that although the Jubi was released from Obito and mutated into the Shinju; the Jubi still remained sealed in Obito. Directly following, the Biju were individually usurped from Obito and thus rendered the Jubi, however the Shinju still remained intact. The interpretation here remains ambiguous:


-> The Jubi is the end result of animosity overcoming the Shinju, a state in which it losses any morals and only seeks to destroy and to regain it's power as a means to restore a balance and establish peace. The Shinju can exist without the Biju and Mazou as it is the source of all Chakra. The Shinju being progenitor of all that exists show's that it is very much capable of thought, reason and intention. It's zest for peace [highlighted by it being in possession of the Infinite Tsukuyomi] or what every qualities it would have maintained prior to becoming Jubi could have had shared some responsibility in the imperfection of Hagoromo's dichotomy.

-> The Physical manifestation of the Shinju, that is, the God tree itself was the portion of the Jubi which Hagoromo's brother sealed within himself, while Hagoromo sealed the Mazou and the Chakra used to form the Biju within himself, that is, the physical epitome of the Shinju. The Gedo Mazou as well as the Jubi's Inton and Yoton portions is what was exported from Hagoromo at his death bed and were the entities contained within him. The Shinju has no mentioning at this point and so happens to be a separate entity which can exist on it's own without containing the prior two elements. It then highlights the Juubi's true dichotomy being The Mazou [tagging along Inton and Yoton portions] and the Shinju [Tagging along ].

Unity

The implication then is: It is impossible for the Shinju to be accessible if the Jubi is incomplete, not of the Biju but rather of it's true composition: What Hagoromo sealed within himself and what his brother sealed within himself. Both halves would have to unite in order to give rise to the God tree itself. It means then that what Hagoromo left behind, that is, what Obito was in possession of was the entire Juubi and not just the portion Hagoromo sealed within himself. The theory here is that Hagoromo and his brother being descendants and the dichotomy of what was labelled a God [Kaguya] would have had to unite at some point [proposing this is a physical, literal unification] in oder to bring rise to the current happenings in the universe and the resuscitation of the Juubi. It would have then been a concept applicable to Hagoromo after the birth of Indra and Ashura.

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Summary:

-> One of Hagoromo's sons inherited more than the other
-> Hagoromo and his brother's portion of the Jubi were united at some point which is why it is currently possible to awaken the Shinju
-> Indra's values were as Kaguya's
-> The Yin->Yang concept is unbalanced


 
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valandil988

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Huh so your saying in order for the god tree to appear at all, both halfs sealed separately in Hagaromo and his brother would have to have come together.

So that means either Hagaromo took it by force or something else happened after his time. Nothing could possibly happen that would force Hagaromo's brother to give up his half its like rights of conquest, you get 50% I get 50%. Its like they divided up the spoils...It kinda makes me feel ill.

It still makes no sense, how can the biju + Gedo = Juubi that can form the god tree if half of it is missing???

So ergo logically that must mean the biju were created from the "complete" juubi not just a piece.

.....What did Hagaromo do, kill his own brother? It would fit the Kain and Abel mythos of western culture.
 
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Waltz

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Huh so your saying in order for the god tree to appear at all, both halfs sealed separately in Hagaromo and his brother would have to have come together.

So that means either Hagaromo took it by force or something else happened after his time. Nothing could possibly happen that would force Hagaromo's brother to give up his half its like rights of conquest, you get 50% I get 50%. Its like they divided up the spoils...It kinda makes me feel ill.

It still makes no sense, how can the biju + Gedo = Juubi that can form the god tree if half of it is missing???

So ergo logically that must mean the biju were created from the "complete" juubi not just a piece.

.....What did Hagaromo do, kill his own brother? It would fit the Kain and Abel mythos of western culture.
The absence of such an implication does not rule out possibility. Here's a similar case:

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Yahcob13

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So youre saying that Hagoromo's brother was more powerful than he was?
Hagoromo inherited his mother's ideals?
Im thinking that the uniting of Hagoromo's sons is only half of the equation. Because that will only account for half of Kaguya's guilt. The other half must somehow be accounted for (Hagoromo's brother). This is where I think the Uzumaki and Hyuga clans come into play because I think those clans are the offspring of Kaguya's other son. Through ninshuu Karin and Sasuke will unite so will Naruto and Hinata. This will cause Kaguya to make an appearance to present the Juubi an offering of repentance. Something like that...
 

Ultimateone

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i don't think so. see the thing about the senju is that it can go through a metamorphoses when it's chakra continues to grow. eventually after it has enough of it natural energy which is what it has as chakra it can become the shinju again. now the juubi can still be split up as the sage specifically said that he split up the juubi that was inside him. which mean that what we see is only part of the juubi. also if you look at the shinju from hogoromo's flash back and the shinju which obito ejected from his body it is different. at the top of the current shinju it is just that one bud that seems to posses an eye in it, but in the flashback it seems to be a thick tree with many leaves and such. this is most likely due to it being complete, and the one obito summoned only being a part. also it would mean that he in fact killed his brother and it would have made sense to mention that after saying how they both had the juubi, instead he chose not to mention him yet, bringing me to the conclusion that he did something different with his half.
 

valandil988

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The absence of such an implication does not rule out possibility. Here's a similar case:

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Think about it, Hagaromo and his brother have MASSIVE Cain and Abel parallels.

That means Hagaromo may have killed his own brother.

This is why I feel uncomfortable believing anything a possible kin slayer says.
 

Transcendence

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Another acquiesce thread, Waltz. I particularly like that you decided to highlight the lack of balance between the Yin and Yang. It is displayed quite well in the manga, and further examined here. The balance between Yin and Yang has been troubled from the beginning of time in the manga (Kaguya and Shinju) all the way to the current main event in Naruto and Sasuke. Hagoromo's brother is still quite an anomaly, but we can assume he has almost identical powers to him as well. Moreover, concerning the lack of balance, the Senju descendants have proven to be superior to the Uchiha since the test of the time. Ashura becoming equal and also his father choosing him as the successor to Ninshuu (essentially the new Rikudou). Hashirama being superior to Madara until Madara unified Hashirama and himself, but that isn't entirely Uchiha which gives it no merit. The current iteration further proves the point, Naruto will be partially superior. But what is quite odd is that since the parallel treads on power, Sasuke is almost certainly receiving Senju Cells in a time of near death, which all but confirms the Rin'negans awakening on top of Mokuton (tailored due to Hashirama's cells), a new stronger body with superior chakra, and potentially; Sage Mode. It breaks the parallel entirely.

Thoughts on the end portion of my post?
 

Waltz

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So youre saying that Hagoromo's brother was more powerful than he was?
Hagoromo inherited his mother's ideals?
Im thinking that the uniting of Hagoromo's sons is only half of the equation. Because that will only account for half of Kaguya's guilt. The other half must somehow be accounted for (Hagoromo's brother). This is where I think the Uzumaki and Hyuga clans come into play because I think those clans are the offspring of Kaguya's other son. Through ninshuu Karin and Sasuke will unite so will Naruto and Hinata. This will cause Kaguya to make an appearance to present the Juubi an offering of repentance. Something like that...
Yeah...I could see the correlation.
i don't think so. see the thing about the senju is that it can go through a metamorphoses when it's chakra continues to grow. eventually after it has enough of it natural energy which is what it has as chakra it can become the shinju again. now the juubi can still be split up as the sage specifically said that he split up the juubi that was inside him. which mean that what we see is only part of the juubi. also if you look at the shinju from hogoromo's flash back and the shinju which obito ejected from his body it is different. at the top of the current shinju it is just that one bud that seems to posses an eye in it, but in the flashback it seems to be a thick tree with many leaves and such. this is most likely due to it being complete, and the one obito summoned only being a part. also it would mean that he in fact killed his brother and it would have made sense to mention that after saying how they both had the juubi, instead he chose not to mention him yet, bringing me to the conclusion that he did something different with his half.

After Hagoromo split the Jubi's chakra, all that was left was the Mazou which he then sealed within the Moon. As regards the bold I am more inclined to believe that it currently lacks what mankind stole from it.
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Another acquiesce thread, Waltz. I particularly like that you decided to highlight the lack of balance between the Yin and Yang. It is displayed quite well in the manga, and further examined here. The balance between Yin and Yang has been troubled from the beginning of time in the manga (Kaguya and Shinju) all the way to the current main event in Naruto and Sasuke. Hagoromo's brother is still quite an anomaly, but we can assume he has almost identical powers to him as well. Moreover, concerning the lack of balance, the Senju descendants have proven to be superior to the Uchiha since the test of the time. Ashura becoming equal and also his father choosing him as the successor to Ninshuu (essentially the new Rikudou). Hashirama being superior to Madara until Madara unified Hashirama and himself, but that isn't entirely Uchiha which gives it no merit. The current iteration further proves the point, Naruto will be partially superior. But what is quite odd is that since the parallel treads on power, Sasuke is almost certainly receiving Senju Cells in a time of near death, which all but confirms the Rin'negans awakening on top of Mokuton (tailored due to Hashirama's cells), a new stronger body with superior chakra, and potentially; Sage Mode. It breaks the parallel entirely.

Thoughts on the end portion of my post?
I would believe Hagoromo to be the stronger of the two as Ashura eventually was to Indra and Naruto will eventually be to Sasuke. If Naruto becomes host of the Bijuu I think the balance will be restored despite what power-up's Sasuke may acquire. Two Rin'negan users, one being Hagoromo who was enormously more potent with unified Uchiha and Senju DNA than Madara couldn't triumph the Jubi. Their standoff will be spectacular, no doubt.
 
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