Estimation- Pain Speed & Reflexes

Edogawa

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I feel there is either underestimation or ignorance of speed/reflexes in part of Pain/Nagato. For purposes of this thread, I'm using the Paths designed for frontline combat: Deva and Asura Paths. Certain Pain bodies have different reactions, because some are designed for specific combat role. Naraka Path is designed for healing and interrogation, Human Path is designed for interrogation although can be used as sacrifice, Animal Path is designed for combat using summons and Preta Path is designed for defence. Only Deva and Asura were actually used as frontline combat, because of their superior firepower.

In regards to speed, the most accurate estimation of how fast Pain/Nagato is, is using him dodging FRS at point-blank range. Here is the panel:

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If we look at the prior scan, the distance between Pain and FRS was only a couple of centimetre [ ]. Now the next question is: How fast is FRS? The most accurate and quite frankly describing FRS's speed is by comparing it to Susanoo Arrow. They were shown to have moved at the same speed from the same distance in War Arc. I'll display below:

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FRS = Susanoo Arrow are equal in speed. Susanoo Arrow was stated and shown fast enough to the point Kakashi couldn't dodge it, hence him resorting to Kamui. Databook puts Kakashi's speed score at 4.5 which is the equivalent to Hebi Sasuke, whom we all know is very fast. Kakashi and 6th Gate Gai are comparable in speed, because we've seen them at full speed when clashing with 6 transformed Jinchuriki. Susanoo Arrow was dodged by SM Kabuto.

An accurate estimation of Pain's speed in comparison to other characters, when assessing their reactions to fast attacks, I would rank Pain this way:

Pain = SM Kabuto > FRS & Susanoo Arrow > Kakashi = Itachi = 6 Gated Gai = Hebi Sasuke in speed.

It's common sense; Kakashi who is as fast as Itachi, 6 Gated Gai and Hebi Sasuke could not physically dodge Susanoo Arrow, instead resorted to Kamui. That means Susanoo Arrow can move at a faster speed than Kakashi/Gai/Hebi Sasuke. Sage Mode Kabuto was fast enough to dodge Susanoo Arrow, and SM Kabuto was blitzing Itachi. Susanoo Arrow moved at equal speed as FRS, which was physically dodged at point blank range by Pain.

Although Pain (Deva and Asura) is physically faster than Itachi, Kakashi and Hebi Sasuke; he's still slower than V2 Ay, Killer Bee and space-time users (Minato and Tobirama). Never the less, Pain is extremely fast compared to most top tier characters.
 
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Rikudou Tobi

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I remember Deva and Asura fighting Kakashi, you could've use the speed from that battle and compare it to hebi sasuke who is very fast. However I do not believe that Itachi is slower because he beat both Hebi Sasuke and Kakashi in speed.
 

Edogawa

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I remember Deva and Asura fighting Kakashi, you could've use the speed from that battle and compare it to hebi sasuke who is very fast. However I do not believe that Itachi is slower because he beat both Hebi Sasuke and Kakashi in speed.
Of course there are speed feats, like out speeding 6 Tailed Naruto and the one you mentioned, but the most proper way of estimating Pain's speed is using FRS. When was Itachi faster?
 

Rikudou Tobi

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Of course there are speed feats, like out speeding 6 Tailed Naruto and the one you mentioned, but the most proper way of estimating Pain's speed is using FRS. When was Itachi faster?
I forgot about the six tails part nice catch on that part, and he also blitz Sm Jiraiya who also had a 4.5 in the databook, so its safe to assume that Pain wold be a 5 for speed just like Itachi.

Itachi beat Kakashi in speed when it was that 30% substitute. Kakashi tried to use a underground maneuver with a cqc grapple but Itachi came out on top. Also in part 1 Itachi was like 3 steps ahead of kakashi during their first encounter.
You can argue that in part 2 that the kakashi Itachi beat in speed was a shadow clone which is basically 50% of kakashi, but the itachi the clone faced was a 30% substitute making it even weaker.

Itachi was able to parry with kcm naruto and Bee at the same tiime while in another fight he was able to beat Dsm Kabuto in speed too. I think Itachi and Pain are dead-lock even in speed but nagato himself is a little slower.
 

Edogawa

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I forgot about the six tails part nice catch on that part, and he also blitz Sm Jiraiya who also had a 4.5 in the databook, so its safe to assume that Pain wold be a 5 for speed just like Itachi.

Itachi beat Kakashi in speed when it was that 30% substitute. Kakashi tried to use a underground maneuver with a cqc grapple but Itachi came out on top. Also in part 1 Itachi was like 3 steps ahead of kakashi during their first encounter.
You can argue that in part 2 that the kakashi Itachi beat in speed was a shadow clone which is basically 50% of kakashi, but the itachi the clone faced was a 30% substitute making it even weaker.

Itachi was able to parry with kcm naruto and Bee at the same tiime while in another fight he was able to beat Dsm Kabuto in speed too. I think Itachi and Pain are dead-lock even in speed but nagato himself is a little slower.
30% in Chakra, not physical capacity. All that means the substitute is limited in how much Jutsu it can produce, due to limited percentage in Chakra level. It had no effect on his physique.

Itachi never beat Kabuto in speed. Quite the contrary, he got blitzed. But even if he was faster than Kakashi, it was only a small margin.
 

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30% in Chakra, not physical capacity. All that means the substitute is limited in how much Jutsu it can produce, due to limited percentage in Chakra level. It had no effect on his physique.

Itachi never beat Kabuto in speed. Quite the contrary, he got blitzed. But even if he was faster than Kakashi, it was only a small margin.
Nope, 30% in chakra and strength. Kakashi clones takes 50% of his chakra, but that doesnt mean his speed would be lowered. Itachi with just 30% chakra and strength outspeeded kakashi. Kakashi's sharingan could track 5th gate lee speed but couldnt track itachi who wasnt using full speed in part 1. Didn't DSM kabuto blitz him inside the izanami illusion? Zetsu said itachi could've dodged the shuriken, sasuke threw at him easily, but due to his sickness, he was moving strangely. The databook says the shuriken was lightning-speed.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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30% in Chakra, not physical capacity. All that means the substitute is limited in how much Jutsu it can produce, due to limited percentage in Chakra level. It had no effect on his physique.
Well if that’s the case then kakashi’s shadow clone is no different because all it does is cut your chakra in half but it still proves my point with Itachi surpassing kakashi’s speed. That and Itachi has a 5 in speed while Kakashi has a 4.5 in speed.
Itachi never beat Kabuto in speed. Quite the contrary, he got blitzed. But even if he was faster than Kakashi, it was only a small margin.
Kabuto never blitzed Itachi, in fact Itachi beat Kabuto in linear and reaction speed. If you think about it, Itachi would’ve never caught Kabuto in izanami since it requires bodily speed to initate the jutsu.
 
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Edogawa

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Well if that’s the case then kakashi’s shadow clone is no different because all it does is cut your chakra in half but it still proves my point with Itachi surpassing kakashi’s speed. That and Itachi has a 5 in speed while Kakashi has a 4.5 in speed.

Kabuto never blitzed Itachi, in fact Itachi beat Kabuto in linear and reaction speed. If you think about it, Itachi would’ve never caught Kabuto in izanami since it requires bodily speed to initate the jutsu.
Yes, but it's just a small margin. Difference is only 0.5

Itachi got blitzed . If you're talking about the horn that got cut off, Kabuto said it he forgot he had a horn and still evaded Itachi's attempt.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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Yes, but it's just a small margin. Difference is only 0.5

Itachi got blitzed . If you're talking about the horn that got cut off, Kabuto said it he forgot he had a horn and still evaded Itachi's attempt.
I was talking about the horn, he didn't know until the last second. As for that part you showed, he didn't get blitzed because that was part of .
 
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