Naw, just them two. I work all the time and don't have internet. So the little time I do have is spent either; Getting High, Chasing Skirt, or Playing Resident Evil/Legend Of Zelda.
Naw, just them two. I work all the time and don't have internet. So the little time I do have is spent either; Getting High, Chasing Skirt, or Playing Resident Evil/Legend Of Zelda.
But Lee will still be hitting the chakra expelled at however fast he is moving so he will be getting hit by the chakra at a velocity equal to his speed plus the rate at which the chakra is being expelled. The overall momentum might be in Lees favor so the impact force will be transfered to Neji, but the chakra will cause the impact force from the collision to be lessed significantly and even hurt Lee slightly because he wont see it coming.
Its not stopping time exactly, but displaying Nejis perception as he is avoiding attacks, which is much greater then most people due to his reflexes and reaction time being very high. He could see all projectiles being launched at him, and use his spatial and distance relation ability to judge how fast each of them are moving, theirtrajectory, and move accordingly so that he could avoid nearly every single thing thrown at him. It is the greatest feat in the manga that it involves dodging multiple high speed projectiles objects from everywhere at once at the same.
Lee on the other hand is constantly moving at high speed, and because of this will experience tunnel vision like everyone else without the sharingan. It may not be as severe as others since Lee is far more used to moving at high speeds compared to other people and as such has better reaction and reflexes, but his vision will still not be as clear as it would be if he were standing still, so he might perceive everything as being slower, but the edges of his vision will not be totally clear.
This arow that you are referring to was controlled by a specific individual so that it had a 120% accuracy chance, a drilled tip, and had enough power and force to completely blow through several trees after being launched out of nejis visual range of 50 meters, through Neji, and create a crater at the point it touched the ground. And Neji deflected it from missing its mark by 15 centimeters by using his chakra alone. The difference is that Neji will be able to see Lee at least when compared the arrow that was intentionally launched into his blindspot so Neji could make an effort to defend himself using his incredible reaction time and reflexes.
Again, im TOTALLY NEUTRAL in this. Im just pointing out why his arguement fails to conclude how Lee would beat Neji. Not saying Neji would win. Ill argue against Neji if the opposing arguements fails to represent how Neji would supposedly beat Lee.
site out. It demonstrates and puts into detail what happens when two things collide. Basically, when something with more momentum [Lee] collides with something with the same amount of mass but less momentum [Neji] the one with the most momentum either
You must be registered for see links
or [depending on circumstances] will be repelled back significantly slower then it came in; while the one with less momentum will be repelled [depending on circumstances] x2,x3, x4, etc. faster then it came in and taking the majority of the damage. Keep in mind, that the website that I shared puts both objects [cars] on equal terms by placing them on the road where traction comes into play. In mid-air, Neji has no type of traction or support by the ground, making him even more vulnerable to losing this collision battle.
Got it, thanks for explaining that to me.
I'm not quite sure how you equated Lee getting tunnel vision due to his high speed movements. Moving at that speed with such impaired vision would result in extreme inaccuracy, which clearly isn't the case when Lee or Gai are in gates mode. Furthermore, take a look at this scan
You must be registered for see links
. Lee's movements were being detected by the byukugan, sharingan, AND Gai's normal eyesight. While everyone else who doesn't have a dojutsu couldn't keep up with Lee's speed [
You must be registered for see links
-
You must be registered for see links
] Might Gai had no problem doing so because his eyes are trained, so his vision became accustomed with such speed; and the same thing applies to Lee.
No, no, no. The one that he deflected by 15 centimeters was the arrow prior to the spiral one, which had 100% accuracy. Anyways, you can bring up the amount of force the spiral arrow produced all you want; the fact of the matter is, it's trajectory is easily being changed via a thread..... [
You must be registered for see links
] So Neji changing an arrow's trajectory by mere centimeters, isn't a strong enough feat to say he would completely knock Lee's punches/kicks of course to the point he might miss. And Neji knew where the arrow was coming the whole time [
You must be registered for see links
] It was just coming so fast that the best he could do is slightly move it's trajectory and slightly attempt to dodge. So even if he knows which direction Lee is coming from, it doesn't guarantee he will be able to dodge/deflect his attacks away. Again, there is a reason why Gai said the answer to beating Neji is an untouchable high speed combo.
I have concluded how Lee defeats Neji.... his counters to Ura Renge aren't very promising.
What i Mean by seeing things in "Stopped time" is that when he chooses he can instantly see everything as if things were going super slow motion or in its current spot in real time (as in Not moving so its like taking a Picture and looking at the picture that fast). Now with that being said he plans and can counter anything accordingly with in reason. No matter how Lee moves, Neji will always know where he is and what he will attempt!
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
As you can see the sharingan and Byakugan was able to keep track of everything that was going on, only difference between the sharingan and Byakugan is that... Topic for another day. The Byakugan was even able to track Naruto's high speed moves and even match his speed and power
You must be registered for see links
. Point is no matter how Fast Lee may be, Neji will Detect every movement no matter if he can stop them or not.
And You misinterpret What Neji and the hyuga's can achieve with there chakras. With the ability to unleash damn near any amount of chakra, they can alter or control anything with in reason. In the case of High speed Rock lee/Guy he can use Pure chakra Alone to Alter a certain punch that would hit his Shoulder that would then miss because his chakra altered his intended target (shoulder in this case). I wish Knew how to make examples Like Bogard does. SMH
And with Every missed/altered Punch Neji can counter Attack. And with One touch Lee can Arguably Die.. Why die you ask? Because With his chakra gates opened and out control one touch could make his Chakra Implode or Cause Major Damage too lee. Or Simply One touch to his arm/Leg can Cause his Muscles rip or snap or worse.
On top of Neji detecting Every would be move, He will also keep track of the Chakra gates and his muscles in his body to know when or where to attack.
If you still don't Get what his chakra can do, Picture A Arrow about to be shot to a Bull's Eye Board on a Tree out side. The tree is Neji, the Arrow is an attack from who ever (Lee, guy, Aye). The arrow is Shot... (Keep in mind It will/was suppose to be a perfect Shot in the middle).. But at the Last second a Large gust of wind Blows at the side of the arrow, thus changing the would be perfect shot off its intended target to miss the board completely. The wind is the Chakra, the tree is Neji, the Arrow is Lee. Basically he can do that Every single time any time he chooses! This combined with there Byakugan makes them one of the most deadliest Taijutsu users ever shown in the manga.
SO to break it down to the other users reading this:
1. Neji has already been shown to keep track of Gate lee's Speed (seen with Kakashi)
2. Neji can alter anything physical with Chakra alone and giving moment.
3. Neji will or can Use chakra to sway would be combo's from lee off its Intended target and Maybe Counter Attack.
The only Problem Is lee Knowing Most of Neji's secrets and will most likely Do a Differ Approach since he cannot Use the Surprise Factor Anymore (which wouldn't have Been 100% to begin with anyway).
P.s. in Part 2 Lee can Go Auto Gates with out Using Primary Lotus as a start up By the way. SO it would Be in his Best Interest to go Gates and Try to end it Quick.
In that very scan you posted where Kakashis sharingan and Neji's byakugan were keeping up with Lee's movements, GAI's was as well. His eyes are trained, so his vision became accustomed with such speed; and the same thing applies to Lee. So as I said in my previous post, while Neji can choose to see things in slow motion, Lee is already seeing everything in slow motion as well. Most likely not as clear as Neji can due to his dojutsu, but this isn't much of an advantage for Neji in any way when his opponents perception is so advanced for the standard eye, that it's become accustomed to seeing such fast speed movements that normal speed appears to be in slow motion. Also, just because Neji will know where Lee is and what he is attempting to do, it doesn't guarantee Neji will be able to successfully counter/avoid it.
You must be registered for see images
But the best Neji was able to change the trajectory of an arrow was by 15 centimeters. He's probably got more proficient at this particular skill since part one, but still, it was only 15 centimeters when the arrow trajectory is easily being changed via a thread..... [
You must be registered for see links
] So Neji changing an arrow's trajectory by mere centimeters, isn't a strong enough feat to say he would completely knock Lee's punches/kicks of course to the point he might miss. You mentioned that Neji would be able to alter a punch that was aimed at the shoulder so that it would miss..... Yeah, while I can see that happening, Lee simply wouldn't be aiming at his shoulder. Lee aimed at Gaaras torso the entire time while using the Ura Renge; he would aim at the same region of the body against Neji, especially since he knows Neji's capabilities and stellar reflexes. It would make absolutely no sense for Lee to aim at anything else, other then the part of body with the most ample room to land a solid hit, that being the torso.
Yeah, I know Lee can go auto gates in part two. That's precisely why I said in my rebuttal to the OP that there isn't much to talk about concerning base Lee and Neji, as Lee wouldn't spend much time if any at all to try and out combat Neji on those terms. That would just be retarded of him to do so, and contrary to the popular belief, Lee isn't an idiot.
Naw, just them two. I work all the time and don't have internet. So the little time I do have is spent either; Getting High, Chasing Skirt, or Playing Resident Evil/Legend Of Zelda.
site out. It demonstrates and puts into detail what happens when two things collide. Basically, when something with more momentum [Lee] collides with something with the same amount of mass but less momentum [Neji] the one with the most momentum either
You must be registered for see links
or [depending on circumstances] will be repelled back significantly slower then it came in; while the one with less momentum will be repelled [depending on circumstances] x2,x3, x4, etc. faster then it came in and taking the majority of the damage. Keep in mind, that the website that I shared puts both objects [cars] on equal terms by placing them on the road where traction comes into play. In mid-air, Neji has no type of traction or support by the ground, making him even more vulnerable to losing this collision battle.
Got it, thanks for explaining that to me.
I'm not quite sure how you equated Lee getting tunnel vision due to his high speed movements. Moving at that speed with such impaired vision would result in extreme inaccuracy, which clearly isn't the case when Lee or Gai are in gates mode. Furthermore, take a look at this scan
You must be registered for see links
. Lee's movements were being detected by the byukugan, sharingan, AND Gai's normal eyesight. While everyone else who doesn't have a dojutsu couldn't keep up with Lee's speed [
You must be registered for see links
-
You must be registered for see links
] Might Gai had no problem doing so because his eyes are trained, so his vision became accustomed with such speed; and the same thing applies to Lee.
No, no, no. The one that he deflected by 15 centimeters was the arrow prior to the spiral one, which had 100% accuracy. Anyways, you can bring up the amount of force the spiral arrow produced all you want; the fact of the matter is, it's trajectory is easily being changed via a thread..... [
You must be registered for see links
] So Neji changing an arrow's trajectory by mere centimeters, isn't a strong enough feat to say he would completely knock Lee's punches/kicks of course to the point he might miss. And Neji knew where the arrow was coming the whole time [
You must be registered for see links
] It was just coming so fast that the best he could do is slightly move it's trajectory and slightly attempt to dodge. So even if he knows which direction Lee is coming from, it doesn't guarantee he will be able to dodge/deflect his attacks away. Again, there is a reason why Gai said the answer to beating Neji is an untouchable high speed combo.
I have concluded how Lee defeats Neji.... his counters to Ura Renge aren't very promising.
his. I already said that neji will still take the brunt of the impact force so he will be affected more, i just focused more on what happens to Lee than what happens to Neji. The chakra will just act as a damage mitigater in that it will absorb a bit of each blow so it doesnt hurt him so mich as a full force blow. However, before that can happen, Lee first has to get Neji into the air in order to start mid air combos. On the ground neji can openly use rotation to prevent it.
I didnt day tht there would be any inaccuracy. I said that Lee will not see any counterattacks that Neji will make because of tunnel vision. The only people who wont get tunnel vision are sharingan users and that was specifically stated as fact by minato to kakashi when he first invented chidori which required high speed movement because, though not on the same scale as the gates. The only ecxeption is if he were to stand still and attack where physical movement of his body wont obscure his vision. Using guy as an example is terrible because guy was standing still at a set point, and because his eyes are trained to track extremely fast moving objects, he was able to keep up with Lees movements. If he were to go into gates and join Lee, he would experience the exact same tunnel effect, but not lack his ability to track objects. You are mistaking tracking high speed objects for being able to see their environment while moving at hig speeds, which is not the same thing.
My mistake, it was not the drill one. However, my point still stands because Neji did NOT see it. He had to sense it with his chakra, which is not the same because itncame in a blind spot and Lee is far to big to be blocked by a blind spot. Also, i did not say that it will cause him to miss. I was showing that Nejis use of chakra through expulsion alone is still very strong and could protect him in a manner similar to gaaras sand armor. It wont negate the effects of the punches or cause him to miss, but it will reduce the damage that he would take significantly. Must i post Nejis feats of dodging multiple high speed kunai/spiders from ALL directions once again? Neji has the reaction and reflexes to keep up with an attack like ura renge for at least a few seconds. At that time, Guy did not know that Neji could use rotation, which was the answer to Lees high speed combo so, that point is moot.
I have once again clarified how Lee does not beat Neji, not that Neji will win in the first place. He has all the counters he neeeds for ura renge.
his. I already said that neji will still take the brunt of the impact force so he will be affected more, i just focused more on what happens to Lee than what happens to Neji. The chakra will just act as a damage mitigater in that it will absorb a bit of each blow so it doesnt hurt him so mich as a full force blow. However, before that can happen, Lee first has to get Neji into the air in order to start mid air combos. On the ground neji can openly use rotation to prevent it.
I didnt day tht there would be any inaccuracy. I said that Lee will not see any counterattacks that Neji will make because of tunnel vision. The only people who wont get tunnel vision are sharingan users and that was specifically stated as fact by minato to kakashi when he first invented chidori which required high speed movement because, though not on the same scale as the gates. The only ecxeption is if he were to stand still and attack where physical movement of his body wont obscure his vision. Using guy as an example is terrible because guy was standing still at a set point, and because his eyes are trained to track extremely fast moving objects, he was able to keep up with Lees movements. If he were to go into gates and join Lee, he would experience the exact same tunnel effect, but not lack his ability to track objects. You are mistaking tracking high speed objects for being able to see their environment while moving at hig speeds, which is not the same thing.
My mistake, it was not the drill one. However, my point still stands because Neji did NOT see it. He had to sense it with his chakra, which is not the same because itncame in a blind spot and Lee is far to big to be blocked by a blind spot. Also, i did not say that it will cause him to miss. I was showing that Nejis use of chakra through expulsion alone is still very strong and could protect him in a manner similar to gaaras sand armor. It wont negate the effects of the punches or cause him to miss, but it will reduce the damage that he would take significantly. Must i post Nejis feats of dodging multiple high speed kunai/spiders from ALL directions once again? Neji has the reaction and reflexes to keep up with an attack like ura renge for at least a few seconds. At that time, Guy did not know that Neji could use rotation, which was the answer to Lees high speed combo so, that point is moot.
I have once again clarified how Lee does not beat Neji, not that Neji will win in the first place. He has all the counters he neeeds for ura renge.
So are you implying that Neji can survive the Ura Renge?
I already countered the OP concerning kaiten;
Addressing your first method:
The Ura Renge was deemed to be an untouchable combo attack...
You must be registered for see images
...Such an attack that is supposed to be the answer in defeating Neji by none other then both combatants sensei; someone who I'd expect to know both their capabilities. Now, I'm going to explain why this technique is in fact untouchable even for Nejis standards.
First, allow me to explain to you now the Kaiten works.
You must be registered for see images
Demonstrated
You must be registered for see links
.
Then...
You must be registered for see images
Demonstrated
You must be registered for see links
.
Neji was able to contest with Narutos chakra shroud speed [
You must be registered for see links
] but he wasn't fast enough to complete the spin necessary to fully activate his kaiten [
You must be registered for see links
] resulting in [
You must be registered for see links
] where both Neji and Naruto felt the full force rather then it being deflected in Narutos face.
[Now, this is where Lee's deemed untouchable combo comes into play]
As I just explained, the Kaiten isn't capable of being used to it's full potential by simply just matching someones speed. Thus entailing that Neji needs to be faster then his opponent in order to successfully use it. So with that being said, how is Neji going to cope with someone who he can't even match in speed? That someone being a 5th gated Rock Lee, who has the capability to pull off untouchable combos. He simply can't. Thus making this an inadequate counter, as Neji can't even use it in time to defend himself; hence why Gai explains how the answer in defeating Neji is a high speed untouchable combo.
Not necessarily. Kakashi
You must be registered for see links
his opponents counter attacks without the sharingan, true. However, the fact remains that Kakashi's eyes aren't advanced as Gai's are, proof being when Kakashi had to activate his sharingan to track Lee while Gai was tracking him just fine. So while the argument can be made that Lee/Gai would be experiencing tunnel vision as did Kakashi, it is only speculation as Kakashi's vision simply isn't used to moving at such high speed. Furthermore, Haku had absolutely no tunnel vision problem while transporting at hyper speed to counter Naruto [
You must be registered for see links
] Anyways, if they do/do not experience tunnel vision, it doesn't make much of a difference.
Even though he didn't actually see it, Neji specifically said that he KNEW where the attack was coming from, thus detecting it with his own chakra, which is practically the same thing as actually seeing it. Despite KNOWING and detecting where the attack was coming from, he couldn't avoid it. So just because he'll see where Lee is coming from, doesn't guarantee he'll be able to counter. Ura Renge is a series of hit and run untouchable combos, Neji simply can't keep on body blowing between each hit. So while he might be able to reduce the force from the first one, if he doesn't completely stop Lee from continuing the attack, he's done. Even though I countered, the kaiten, Gai didn't know Neji had rotation but TenTen did?
Still don't see a sufficient enough counter for Ura Renge.
So are you implying that Neji can survive the Ura Renge?
I already countered the OP concerning kaiten;
Addressing your first method:
The Ura Renge was deemed to be an untouchable combo attack...
You must be registered for see images
...Such an attack that is supposed to be the answer in defeating Neji by none other then both combatants sensei; someone who I'd expect to know both their capabilities. Now, I'm going to explain why this technique is in fact untouchable even for Nejis standards.
First, allow me to explain to you now the Kaiten works.
You must be registered for see images
Demonstrated
You must be registered for see links
.
Then...
You must be registered for see images
Demonstrated
You must be registered for see links
.
Neji was able to contest with Narutos chakra shroud speed [
You must be registered for see links
] but he wasn't fast enough to complete the spin necessary to fully activate his kaiten [
You must be registered for see links
] resulting in [
You must be registered for see links
] where both Neji and Naruto felt the full force rather then it being deflected in Narutos face.
[Now, this is where Lee's deemed untouchable combo comes into play]
As I just explained, the Kaiten isn't capable of being used to it's full potential by simply just matching someones speed. Thus entailing that Neji needs to be faster then his opponent in order to successfully use it. So with that being said, how is Neji going to cope with someone who he can't even match in speed? That someone being a 5th gated Rock Lee, who has the capability to pull off untouchable combos. He simply can't. Thus making this an inadequate counter, as Neji can't even use it in time to defend himself; hence why Gai explains how the answer in defeating Neji is a high speed untouchable combo.
Not necessarily. Kakashi
You must be registered for see links
his opponents counter attacks without the sharingan, true. However, the fact remains that Kakashi's eyes aren't advanced as Gai's are, proof being when Kakashi had to activate his sharingan to track Lee while Gai was tracking him just fine. So while the argument can be made that Lee/Gai would be experiencing tunnel vision as did Kakashi, it is only speculation as Kakashi's vision simply isn't used to moving at such high speed. Furthermore, Haku had absolutely no tunnel vision problem while transporting at hyper speed to counter Naruto [
You must be registered for see links
] Anyways, if they do/do not experience tunnel vision, it doesn't make much of a difference.
Even though he didn't actually see it, Neji specifically said that he KNEW where the attack was coming from, thus detecting it with his own chakra, which is practically the same thing as actually seeing it. Despite KNOWING and detecting where the attack was coming from, he couldn't avoid it. So just because he'll see where Lee is coming from, doesn't guarantee he'll be able to counter. Ura Renge is a series of hit and run untouchable combos, Neji simply can't keep on body blowing between each hit. So while he might be able to reduce the force from the first one, if he doesn't completely stop Lee from continuing the attack, he's done. Even though I countered, the kaiten, Gai didn't know Neji had rotation but TenTen did?
Still don't see a sufficient enough counter for Ura Renge.
Ugh the misconceptins about how kaiten works are rampant. I would gladly show you what actually happened, but I domt have much time cause i got work in a bit so ill have to finish this later
Ugh the misconceptins about how kaiten works are rampant. I would gladly show you what actually happened, but I domt have much time cause i got work in a bit so ill have to finish this later
Iight, whenever then. Got a busy schedule the next couple of days, so idk when I'll get to it; but please come @ me like you're trying to prove Neji>Rock Lee.... spare the small talk.
