establishing why EMS Sasuke > EMS Madara with Kurama

[adeshina365]

By feats I've seen nothing that should lead me to believe it'll harm Perfect Susanoo when a Bijuu Dama from 100% Kurama didn't even leave a scuff mark.

Explosive damage =/= cutting damage.

Eg.

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[KidGamer65]

Explosive damage =/= cutting damage.

That excuse doesn't change the fact that Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama is much stronger than PS Sword Slash, regardless of the type of damage. At most PS sword slash on its own is going to be equal with Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama, and that is pushing it as feats clearly show that the sword slash is weaker. Add Enton to that, there is no way its going to from Full Kurama Bijuu Dama level to anywhere strong enough to damage PS when it tanked Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama with no damage.

Enton Blade wielded by PS or not doesn't matter here, it gets tanked. For it to be a major factor it'd have to be on a whole other level level of overall damage than Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama, and there is absolutely nothing to back that stance up.

 

[adeshina365]

That excuse doesn't change the fact that Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama is much stronger than PS Sword Slash, regardless of the type of damage. At most PS sword slash on its own is going to be equal with Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama, and that is pushing it as feats clearly show that the sword slash is weaker. Add Enton to that, there is no way its going to from Full Kurama Bijuu Dama level to anywhere strong enough to damage PS when it tanked Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama with no damage.

Enton Blade wielded by PS or not doesn't matter here, it gets tanked. For it to be a major factor it'd have to be on a whole other level level of overall damage than Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama, and there is absolutely nothing to back that stance up.

You're comparing the shockwave generated by Madara's Perfect Susanoo sword slash, to the chakra blast of a Bijuu. A more apt comparison would be something taking a direct hit by the Susanoo sword. The shockwave generated by the Perfect Susanoo isn't a pure cutting strike (opponent is getting hit by air pressure).

It isn't about the size of explosions, it's about how capable something is of slicing through things. I edited my above post to show how the Juubi's laser had the same effect as a simple shuriken from Obito (think about the difference in energy there). Cutting techniques apply a greater amount of force per square unit (8 tails example shows that difference is many orders of magnitude greater).

A direct hit by an Enton blade isn't going to blow anything up, but it will

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[KidGamer65]

You're comparing the shockwave generated by Madara's Perfect Susanoo sword slash, to the chakra blast of a Bijuu. A more apt comparison would be something taking a direct hit by the Susanoo sword. The shockwave generated by the Perfect Susanoo isn't a pure cutting strike.

The shockwave is all you have to work with considering Madara has never, ever sliced anything directly with his Perfect Susanoo besides Mokuton Hands.

It isn't about the size of explosions, it's about how capable something is of slicing through things. I edited my above post to show how the Juubi's laser had the same effect as a simple shuriken from Obito. Cutting techniques apply a greater amount of force per square unit.

Please tell me you aren't serious with this comparison.

-BM Naruto is far more durable than Killer B.

-BM Naruto had 6 of his tails obliterated, Killer B had his flimsy, not durable at all, tentacles cut by Giant Shuriken.

Those didn't have remotely the same effect. At all. Cutting techniques applying a greater amount of force per square unit doesn't mean you can rely on that fact alone to say PS sword slash is on a completely different level to Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama (Multi Mountain Vaporizer) when you have little to no feats to back up your stance, especially when you are trying to insinuate that an Enton Blade wielded by PS is going to be able to do a significant amount of damage to Perfect Susanoo when it tanked a multi Mountain Vaporizing Bijuu Dama with absolutely no damage at all, regardless of the different in attack type.

 

[adeshina365]

The shockwave is all you have to work with considering Madara has never, ever sliced anything directly with his Perfect Susanoo besides Mokuton Hands.

True, but logic would dictate that a direct slash would conserve more energy. The more energy transfers that are done, the more energy that is lost in between each step.

Please tell me you aren't serious with this comparison.

-BM Naruto is far more durable than Killer B.

-BM Naruto had 6 of his tails obliterated, Killer B had his flimsy, not durable at all, tentacles cut by Giant Shuriken.

Look carefully at that scan.... the 8 tails also had a tentacle blown off....and it's main torso wasn't damaged either....

to say PS sword slash is on a completely different level to Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama (Multi Mountain Vaporizer) when you have little to no feats to back up your stance, especially when you are trying to insinuate that an Enton Blade wielded by PS is going to be able to do a significant amount of damage to Perfect Susanoo when it tanked a multi Mountain Vaporizing Bijuu Dama with absolutely no damage at all, regardless of the different in attack type.

Sigh....I'm in no way stating that, please don't put words into my mouth. Full Kurama's Bijuudama outputs significantly more energy, no where do I deny that.

What I'm saying is how that energy is applied to the opponent. The 8 tails had a tail blown off from both the shuriken and the Juubi's laser. In the latter case, the 8 tail's torso wasn't damaged, so the Juubi's attack didn't simply go through the tails like butter. This showcases that cutting attacks apply a greater force that is many order of magnitudes greater at any specific point than explosive attacks.

Will an Enton blade cut through a Perfect Susanoo for sure? We won't know until (if) Sasuke fights Madara. That's not the point of my post(s). I'm stating that there are feats to suggest that it's a possibility considering the amount of force applied to a specific point by a cutting attack, versus an explosive one.

 

[adeshina365]

Another example:

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The Juubi tanked its Bijuudama without suffering any major damage, yet the Shinobi alliance flying in a bird formation were able to cut through it like butter....

In addition, while not really a full equivalent. Sasuke's Enton blade cut through the "Juubi Jr." which are made of the same material.

 

[KidGamer65]

True, but logic would dictate that a direct slash would conserve more energy. The more energy transfers that are done, the more energy that is lost in between each step.

Look carefully at that scan.... the 8 tails also had a tentacle blown off....and it's main torso wasn't damaged either....

B left that tentacle behind, he never took on the Juubi laser, ever. The only one who did was Naruto. That leg is there because either B left it there or Kakashi cut it off as

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Defense
Greater blue-ringed octopus (Hapalochlaena lunulata)

An octopus's main (primary) defense is to hide, either not to be seen at all, or through camouflage and mimicry not to be detected as an octopus.[18] Octopuses have several secondary defenses (defenses they use once they have been seen by a predator). The most common secondary defense is fast escape. Other defenses include distraction with the use of ink sacs and autotomising limbs.

Most octopuses can eject a thick, blackish ink in a large cloud to aid in escaping from predators. The main coloring agent of the ink is melanin, which is the same chemical that gives humans their hair and skin color. This ink cloud is thought to reduce the efficiency of olfactory organs, which would aid an octopus's evasion from predators that employ smell for hunting, such as sharks. Ink clouds of some species might serve as pseudo-morphs, or decoys that the predator attacks instead.[19]
'Autotomy ' (from the Greek auto = "self-" and tomy = "severing") or self amputation is the behavior whereby an animal severs one or more of its own appendages,[1] usually as a self-defense mechanism to elude a predator's grasp or to distract the predator and thereby allow escape. The lost body part may be regenerated later.

Sigh....I'm in no way stating that, please don't put words into my mouth. Full Kurama's Bijuudama outputs significantly more energy, no where do I deny that.

For Enton Blade to be able to damage Perfect Susanoo, it'd have to do much much more damage than Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama as the latter was tanked with absolutely no damage hence it being on another level of power. So yes, you did state that whether you realize it or not. If they are in the same power range or weaker than obviously it won't do any damage.

When I say this I'm talking about the damage done, nothing else.

What I'm saying is how that energy is applied to the opponent. The 8 tails had a tail blown off from both the shuriken and the Juubi's laser. In the latter case, the 8 tail's torso wasn't damaged, so the Juubi's attack didn't simply go through the tails like butter. This showcases that cutting attacks apply a greater force that is many order of magnitudes greater at any specific point than explosive attacks.

Woah, what are you talking about? Hachibi never took on the Juubi laser, Naruto took it on alone. The Tentacle is the result of Killer B leaving it behind, same thing he did against Sasuke or it was Kakashi, I'm not really sure though, but I know the Juubi's laser didn't hit it. I hope you don't think that the Juubi laser cut that tentacle off when its not even a cutting attack in the first place and the tentacle wasn't even damaged in the slightest.

Will an Enton blade cut through a Perfect Susanoo for sure? We won't know until (if) Sasuke fights Madara. That's not the point of my post(s). I'm stating that there are feats to suggest that it's a possibility considering the amount of force applied to a specific point by a cutting attack, versus an explosive one.

The only feat you have is pretty much invalid.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lets not even forget that different types of attack react differently to different types of defense. B's tails were in tact after surviving Bijuu Dama but they got cut by Shuriken, does this mean that Shuriken do more damage over all than Bijuu Dama? No. B's tails are nothing but flesh and its easy to cut flesh.

The Juubi tanked its Bijuudama without suffering any major damage, yet the Shinobi alliance flying in a bird formation were able to cut through it like butter....

You are only proving that cutting attacks are more potent than explosive damage, not that Enton Blade is going to damage Perfect Susanoo.

In addition, while not really a full equivalent. Sasuke's Enton blade cut through the "Juubi Jr." which are made of the same material.

They are less durable since FRS, Sakura's punches and Choji's Human Bullet Yo Yo was messing them up. So this doesn't help.

 

[Smd]

not yet. he cannt defeat madara just yet

 

[adeshina365]

@KidGamer65

Looking back, I agree with most of your points and I'll admit that I was wrong. Especially the ones concerning the 8 tails and the damage that it took. Though, I'm curious as to how capable a Perfect Susanoo class Enton arrow would be. I think its capabilities will surprise many.

Though regarding Sakura's punches messing up the Juubi Jr, they were only shown to make them fly backwards. I don't recall any scan showing them tearing holes through them.

 

[KidGamer65]

@KidGamer65

Looking back, I agree with most of your points and I'll admit that I was wrong. Especially the ones concerning the 8 tails and the damage that it took. Though, I'm curious as to how capable a Perfect Susanoo class Enton arrow would be. I think its capabilities will surprise many.

Though regarding Sakura's punches messing up the Juubi Jr, they were only shown to make them fly backwards. I don't recall any scan showing them tearing holes through them.

They were rendered immobile, but then again we were referring to cutting so you have a point there. I mainly posted those to show that Juubi Jr's defenses aren't up to par with the Juubi.

 

[Unorthodox]

okay i disagree i was dumb to think otherwise oops

 

[Draphsin]

People are Quick to assume you need to overpower The fusin tech between Perfect susanoo & Kurama when that's not the case Perfect susanoo's alone would be a stalemate somewhat because they cannot break each other Madara knowing this would use his

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can easily be

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Sasuke's PS sword has nowhere near that amount of firepower, furthermore tbb spam will simply obliterate him & the spinning swords would knock sasuke's susanoo sword away before it manages to swing, lol.

Madara rains tbbs onto sasuke, no debate here.

also the fusion itself is nigh impossible to happen ween sasuke use Amaterasu to

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or cancel the genjutsu thats Kurama

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Madara summons PS as a wall & then turns around & puts kurama in a genjutsu, simple enough.[

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] Sasuke isnt using amaterasu on kurama's eyes with a giant susanoo standing in the way.

Basically the above is all I needed to counter, with such a small argument for kurama you're pretty much admitting that together sasuke stands no chance.

 

[Minator93]

Lel Madara would still own if Sasuke had Kurama and not the other way round U_U

Madara packs the PSS i.e. the Destruction Incarnate, His Susanoo is way greater than Sasuke's Tiny PS

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