[HA] Erzo and Reborn
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Alright since you don't want to do it the fun way.
In terms of our RP, I want you to explain to me how the basic Mind Transfer technique works. There are only six techniques but the primary jutsu by which everything is based off of, is probably the most difficult one. What I want you to explain to me is how exactly would one break out of the hold of a Yamanaka?
In terms of our RP, I want you to explain to me how the basic Mind Transfer technique works. There are only six techniques but the primary jutsu by which everything is based off of, is probably the most difficult one. What I want you to explain to me is how exactly would one break out of the hold of a Yamanaka?
Before making my bio, I actually read some of the jutsus, and it has notes on how to break out of it. It states you have to use double the chakra cost of the jutsu you want to get out of, but stay caught in the jutsu for half it's turn value. I took the first part to mean, if I use a C-rank Yamanaka technique (15 chakra points), you'd have to use an A-rank jutsu (30 chakra points) to break out of it.
But the technique you talk about has no turn value, so how long does someone have to stay caught before being allowed to attempt a release?
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You're right when it comes to the amount of necessary chakra, however the rest was a bit of a trick question. The ambiguity of those techniques were never really specified in their creation and since there was only one Yamanaka teacher before myself (Mig) that never really taught the jutsu it's a bit of a mystery. My perception of the technique's meaning is as follows (and I will later clarify).
1) Fullbody surge of 2-ranks (double the technique) greater than the Yamanaka technique. I possessed a Yamanaka for it's abilities being close to that of genjutsu. Unlike genjutsu, however, many of the techniques deal with physical control of the body through projection of the consciousness or mental techniques that do real damage to the body through the brain. The latter is not completely incapable through genjutsu but with the Yamanaka techniques that exist can relay actual physical damage to the mind. Something of a Genjutsu Kai which is a spike to the chakra like full body techniques would also work for force the release.
I also considered a freeform dump of the chakra so to speak. What I mean by this is spilling out the appropriate amount of chakra via your will to force yourself out of the technique. Similar to how Sakura brute forced herself out of Ino's technique without doing anything but utilizing her inner self (which is not actually a jutsu or manifestation of her chakra). As well, people with especially inhuman level powers like Obito and Madara could simply break free via the own will, which is all how we broke it canon wise. However, something like that one would need to air on the cautious side for if a Yamanaka successfully casts the jutsu if you were to just dump your chakra out and say "I force them out" it could be taken the wrong way.
Other forms of mental techniques the user has access to themselves; self induced genjutsu, subconscious active techniques, etc, would also be a rather safe method to use.
2) Turn value = limitless unless broken. In other words, think genjutsu. While the basic Yamanaka technique says it takes hold for a short period of time, in our RP that in itself is not quantifiable without a specific turn value. Since there is no turn value to this technique we can only assume that the technique lasts as long as the user is unchallenged inside their opponent's body. However when opposed the user would be sent back to their body in the time within that same turn in accordance to what the jutsu says (half the turn value or in other words at the end of the opponent's stage and the beginning of the user's next stage).
Nevertheless the Yamanaka techniques in themselves are to be revamped due to the amount of ambiguity of the techniques. It's been two or three years since the techniques were last modified. With that in mind, as the core of the techniques will be the same if I were to teach you techniques that would later be revamped to better fit the RP it wouldn't really be teaching you the necessary things.
Being one of the few intelligent RPers we have, you can read through the techniques and discern for yourself how to use the techniques as they're written. So before I take you through the monotony of these six techniques we're going to discuss how these techniques would look when re-done or rather revisit the question I ask and talk about how, in RP terms, one would break out of the four techniques that involve physical manipulation of your opponent.
1) Fullbody surge of 2-ranks (double the technique) greater than the Yamanaka technique. I possessed a Yamanaka for it's abilities being close to that of genjutsu. Unlike genjutsu, however, many of the techniques deal with physical control of the body through projection of the consciousness or mental techniques that do real damage to the body through the brain. The latter is not completely incapable through genjutsu but with the Yamanaka techniques that exist can relay actual physical damage to the mind. Something of a Genjutsu Kai which is a spike to the chakra like full body techniques would also work for force the release.
I also considered a freeform dump of the chakra so to speak. What I mean by this is spilling out the appropriate amount of chakra via your will to force yourself out of the technique. Similar to how Sakura brute forced herself out of Ino's technique without doing anything but utilizing her inner self (which is not actually a jutsu or manifestation of her chakra). As well, people with especially inhuman level powers like Obito and Madara could simply break free via the own will, which is all how we broke it canon wise. However, something like that one would need to air on the cautious side for if a Yamanaka successfully casts the jutsu if you were to just dump your chakra out and say "I force them out" it could be taken the wrong way.
Other forms of mental techniques the user has access to themselves; self induced genjutsu, subconscious active techniques, etc, would also be a rather safe method to use.
2) Turn value = limitless unless broken. In other words, think genjutsu. While the basic Yamanaka technique says it takes hold for a short period of time, in our RP that in itself is not quantifiable without a specific turn value. Since there is no turn value to this technique we can only assume that the technique lasts as long as the user is unchallenged inside their opponent's body. However when opposed the user would be sent back to their body in the time within that same turn in accordance to what the jutsu says (half the turn value or in other words at the end of the opponent's stage and the beginning of the user's next stage).
Nevertheless the Yamanaka techniques in themselves are to be revamped due to the amount of ambiguity of the techniques. It's been two or three years since the techniques were last modified. With that in mind, as the core of the techniques will be the same if I were to teach you techniques that would later be revamped to better fit the RP it wouldn't really be teaching you the necessary things.
Being one of the few intelligent RPers we have, you can read through the techniques and discern for yourself how to use the techniques as they're written. So before I take you through the monotony of these six techniques we're going to discuss how these techniques would look when re-done or rather revisit the question I ask and talk about how, in RP terms, one would break out of the four techniques that involve physical manipulation of your opponent.
1 - Basically what I had in mind, and completely agree.
The second part however is a bit weird (the freeform dump of chakra). I did consider it, seeing as how Sakura managed to do it again Ino in Chunin exams, but the role playing rules state you need to use a jutsu to defend against a jutsu (excluding tai/ken stuff, or genjutsu release, I guess), so it'd be quite hard to just 'force' me out without a jutsu.
And the second part about inhuman level powers like Obito and Madara I sort of don't understand because we have ranks. There could be a Sannin with a standard Obito/Madara bio, and I have a Kage-levelled Yamanaka bio, would he/she still just force me out with ease/ without use of jutsu purely because of their bio character?
As for the release, if I were to think of anything other than the self induced genjutsus and using Kai, it'd probably be the two other methods of Genjutsu release.
First: Pain. Because once you're in their body, any pain that affects your body affects theirs too. Granted it's a big risk because you're injuring yourself, but if you plan it smartly and decide to lets say blind yourself because you have access to sensory but your opponent doesn't, it could end up giving you an unplanned advantage.
Second: Chakra spikes from others. A sudden override could 'flush' out your consciousness from whoever's body you have caught.
A third thought that came to mind was the force/will power you mentioned earlier. But in jutsu form. Basically something like Killing Intent (no chakra requiring, no damage dealing jutsu) that's purely based on basic human killing intent. There was a custom jutsu someone always used called will power of the heart or something, or maybe it's a NB tai jutsu. Anyways, using something like that which is basically just the will of the person but written in jutsu form, so I guess something like that would be perfect to overpower someone who is basically in your mind.
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Well, as it stands now rank of the caster doesn't account for much. A Chuunin level Yamanaka can just as easily cast the basic Mind Transfer and on an official Sage Ranked ninja and as rules indicate now, the Sage would still need the same amount of force to break out of the mind technique was any other ninja below him. So there is a bit of a flaw with that. Though you can't even make a Yamanaka until S-jounin I think (whatever 1000 posts are) you catch my drift. It's one of the areas, however I do propose in the edits of the Yamanaka clan, to base the mental controlling techniques on the rank of the caster and their opponent so that, in the case of people above their own rank it would be relatively easy for the opponent to break out (implying that it would be a waste against higher level opponents) and requiring actual technical breaking if the opponent is the same level or below. This makes it fair virtually to all degrees with the exception of people like me who are the official sage title i.e the highest conceivable rank. Everybody is either below me or of my same rank in that regard so if I made my Yamanaka and these rules were implemented for the technique it would be advantageous for me to re-make my Fu Yamanaka bio. THIS would be my Plan C or D as I'm currently working on my Plan A but I digress.
However should the rules be implemented, then your inquery does become a question. If a Sannin Obito vs. A typical Yamanaka (lets say Kage or Sage rank), how would it work? Well the cases of Obito and Madara I were talking about were God Hax Mode Obitos and Madara. Essentially, Madara with EMS and above and Jubi Jinchuuriki Obito (which doesn't exist yet) because how the hell are the highest Uchiha spiritual power and SO6P Wannabe going to be ****ed with right? In either of those cases you have degrees of power where one's mental and spiritual chakras are absolutely incapable of being messed with at all or, at the very most for more than a few seconds to just redirect some shit.
It's hard to attribute the same types of breaking methods to Yamanaka as are with Genjutsu as it would essentially be comparing the two together. However it's almost impossible not to for the keen similarities, primarily the transference of chakra to the opponent and taking control of the system. Yamanaka differ in that their effects are physical and can actually control the body where as most genjutsu cannot. In fact the distinction is Yamanaka force physical control while genjutsu (at highest level, MS+) force control of the will. Pain would be a hard thing to do unless you have somebody else doing the inflicting since you may not have control of your body enough to do so. Though I'd love to use self inducing genjutsu, I mean one of my cj submission became useless because of the genjutsu kai updates so now i use it to con people for customs to gather dust...Anywhore if I used this while my mind was captured the Yamanaka would feel the effects much more than I would which would be great.
However there is another key gray area about all of this which may put a damper on most. The use of chakra may/probably does fall under the control of the Yamanaka while in your body. It would suggest that your body, both externally and internally (which includes your chakra) is under the control of the Yamanaka and therefore your chakra may not be accessible to you unless in the extreme conditions where you use the appropriate amount of chakra/will to dump them out. Though I did like your idea with Killing Intent, in fact that is probably the greatest method for above ranked users to break free without the use of chakra (as that does not require any chakra now). I wouldn't have thought of that had I not used the jutsu recently against Vex in our fight. An S-jounin who uses this technique and then gets scared shitless with Killing Intent by the likes of you or I...he's probably shit in your pants before he went back to his own body (that may be a flaw...we'll work this out)
However should the rules be implemented, then your inquery does become a question. If a Sannin Obito vs. A typical Yamanaka (lets say Kage or Sage rank), how would it work? Well the cases of Obito and Madara I were talking about were God Hax Mode Obitos and Madara. Essentially, Madara with EMS and above and Jubi Jinchuuriki Obito (which doesn't exist yet) because how the hell are the highest Uchiha spiritual power and SO6P Wannabe going to be ****ed with right? In either of those cases you have degrees of power where one's mental and spiritual chakras are absolutely incapable of being messed with at all or, at the very most for more than a few seconds to just redirect some shit.
It's hard to attribute the same types of breaking methods to Yamanaka as are with Genjutsu as it would essentially be comparing the two together. However it's almost impossible not to for the keen similarities, primarily the transference of chakra to the opponent and taking control of the system. Yamanaka differ in that their effects are physical and can actually control the body where as most genjutsu cannot. In fact the distinction is Yamanaka force physical control while genjutsu (at highest level, MS+) force control of the will. Pain would be a hard thing to do unless you have somebody else doing the inflicting since you may not have control of your body enough to do so. Though I'd love to use self inducing genjutsu, I mean one of my cj submission became useless because of the genjutsu kai updates so now i use it to con people for customs to gather dust...Anywhore if I used this while my mind was captured the Yamanaka would feel the effects much more than I would which would be great.
However there is another key gray area about all of this which may put a damper on most. The use of chakra may/probably does fall under the control of the Yamanaka while in your body. It would suggest that your body, both externally and internally (which includes your chakra) is under the control of the Yamanaka and therefore your chakra may not be accessible to you unless in the extreme conditions where you use the appropriate amount of chakra/will to dump them out. Though I did like your idea with Killing Intent, in fact that is probably the greatest method for above ranked users to break free without the use of chakra (as that does not require any chakra now). I wouldn't have thought of that had I not used the jutsu recently against Vex in our fight. An S-jounin who uses this technique and then gets scared shitless with Killing Intent by the likes of you or I...he's probably shit in your pants before he went back to his own body (that may be a flaw...we'll work this out)
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I'll start you off with the most useless technique, the Yamanaka telepathy technique.
I even use methods for this short little set. There are two jutsu that don't require you to transfer your consciousness/inject your will into your opponent so you'll learn those first. But I'm gonna wait another week before actually starting stuff with you. I mean, since you're not antsy
I even use methods for this short little set. There are two jutsu that don't require you to transfer your consciousness/inject your will into your opponent so you'll learn those first. But I'm gonna wait another week before actually starting stuff with you. I mean, since you're not antsy
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First technique, as I said is the telepathy technique. This is a technique where the Yamanaka connect to the mind and communicate with another. Typically this is used for communicating with one of your comrades on the field. What I would imagine happening is, through the Yamanaka's natural sensitivity to chakra, they would be able to sense the source the wish to communicate with or the destination. Using that knowledge, they sync their chakra to allow transmit their conscious thoughts to their comrade. While not all Yamanaka are sensors by default, it's almost implied that if you're a Yamanaka you have the capacity to sense chakra so, that is my theory and it's not a far fetched theory. Though, specific to this technique and divergent from the actual sensory technique, the user is focusing on one primary target to 1) sense and 2) sync with so you're not going to be able to auto sense where your target is and utilize the abilities that come with being a sensor type.
However you are able to use this ability on several members, though considerably harder on the mind of the user since they are syncing their chakra with several individuals.
thirdly, you can transfer this ability to other members through direct contact. This adds an extra step in the process where, 1) you sense the target location 2) with yourself as a source you create a direct medium to the secondary person you're transferring the ability 3) you then sync your chakra which acts as a channel for the secondary person. I could explain this in terms of Networking, Routing and Switching but there would be a lot of swearing.
There is also another capability with this technique that I like only because of the wording. It describes communicating with other people, meaning anybody within your range. You are not only subject to the comrades but this could also be used against opponents. While this isn't a mind reading technique or a direct quote sensory technique, could you imagine the paranoia and possible strategic usages that using this against an enemy would hold? I never really got to use this technique with my Yamanaka bio because I was a noob and couldn't fathom the manipulation of semantics quite yet.
If you understand all that I've said here, describe to me how you would cast this jutsu in the following ways:
1) to communicate to 1 comrade
2) to communicate to 3+ comrades
3) to facilitate the communication between one comrade and another
and then tell me the strategic usages of using this technique against an opponent.
However you are able to use this ability on several members, though considerably harder on the mind of the user since they are syncing their chakra with several individuals.
thirdly, you can transfer this ability to other members through direct contact. This adds an extra step in the process where, 1) you sense the target location 2) with yourself as a source you create a direct medium to the secondary person you're transferring the ability 3) you then sync your chakra which acts as a channel for the secondary person. I could explain this in terms of Networking, Routing and Switching but there would be a lot of swearing.
There is also another capability with this technique that I like only because of the wording. It describes communicating with other people, meaning anybody within your range. You are not only subject to the comrades but this could also be used against opponents. While this isn't a mind reading technique or a direct quote sensory technique, could you imagine the paranoia and possible strategic usages that using this against an enemy would hold? I never really got to use this technique with my Yamanaka bio because I was a noob and couldn't fathom the manipulation of semantics quite yet.
If you understand all that I've said here, describe to me how you would cast this jutsu in the following ways:
1) to communicate to 1 comrade
2) to communicate to 3+ comrades
3) to facilitate the communication between one comrade and another
and then tell me the strategic usages of using this technique against an opponent.
1 - As you said all Yamanakas have a form of sensing, which has nothing to do with the sensing tech itself. Because they're more sensitive to chakra than normal ninjas, a Yamanaka would be able to search for and locate a source which they want to communicate with. Having done that, they would then sync their chakra with that of the comrade/whoever it may be and use that link to submit their thoughts to the other person.
2 - This again is the same process, with the only difference being it may take longer as well as be a lot harder considering you have to locate multiple sources of chakra before syncing your own with their individual chakras. I assume the jutsu itself has a +x amount of chakra for each extra person, showing that it'd take more to try communicate with multiple people at once.
3 - This one seems more complicated than the first two, but you've explained it pretty well. You start as usual, sensing the chakra pool/source you want to connect with. You then go on to use yourself as a medium whilst creating a direct channel for the second person you're trying open the communication with.
The whole idea of just speaking to someone from within should technically terrify the living life out of your opponent. Could it be Genjutsu? Is it some other form of trick? It should all be really confusing, but I have a feeling when I use it in that way, my opponent will instantly 'analyse' that I have an ability which allows me to speak to them from within. Super analysing skills ftw(!) But the whole concept behind it is amazing.
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