Ending the debate Hiruzen vs Orochimaru

[-immortal-]

The Question is who died :|

 

[startup97]

After Hiruzen sealed parts of his soul away and used up almost all his Chakra on Ninjutsu, he still stomped Orochimaru 1V1 in a close quarter combat duel easily. Judging from the scan, if Orochimaru didn't use Edos and just fought Hiruzen (with bloodlust) alone, he would have easily been dispatched. Hiruzen only used the Reaper because it was the only thing he had left after sealing the 2 Hokages.

Spoiler

Read it, a battle exhausted Old Hiruzen with parts of his soul missing scared the crap out of Orochimaru

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[omarsen]

The Question is who died :|

By your logic: Sharingan Sasuke > MS Itachi, becuase Itachi is the one who died?

 

[Untamed]

If Hiruzen was 10 years younger he would have had the strength to be able to pull out Orochimaru's soul is what Orochimaru was referring to.

Hiruzen was wearing his shinobi battle gear underneath his Hokage garments and he and Orochimaru hinted that Hiruzen wanted to fight Orochimaru in a 1 on 1 fight to the finish when the sound 4 put up that barrier.

Hiruzen wasn't 10 years younger in that fight so it doesn't matter. Hiruzen vs Orochimaru at the chunin exams is the actual fight. Orochimaru and Enma had to keep giving Hiruzen pep talks while he was down and he could've been killed during those moments if Orochimaru tried to kill him then, but he didn't want to kill him easily so he taunted and berated him with insults and humiliation. Then Hiruzen took advantage of it and eventually caught him with the RDS.

 

[Joker]

After Hiruzen sealed parts of his soul away and used up almost all his Chakra on Ninjutsu, he still stomped Orochimaru 1V1 in a close quarter combat duel easily. Judging from the scan, if Orochimaru didn't use Edos and just fought Hiruzen (with bloodlust) alone, he would have easily been dispatched. Hiruzen only used the Reaper because it was the only thing he had left after sealing the 2 Hokages.

Spoiler

Read it, a battle exhausted Old Hiruzen with parts of his soul missing scared the crap out of Orochimaru

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Hiruzen didn't scare Orochimaru, the death god did. You fans keep mentiom CQC like that automatically means Hiruzen is stronger, it's really pathetic.

 

[AGoodBoy]

lol what a bunch of desperate excuses.

Yea, buddy, hiruzen won a battle against 2 dead, heavily handicapped zombies. Orochimaru didn't even through one jutsu or serious move until RDS hit him. Hiruzen would have been slaughtered from that kunai moment if oro was bloodlusted.

lol@you thinking hiruzen could have gotten out of that hold. He'd be wrapped and bitten by 50 snakes the second he resisted(if oro was bloodlusted)

By your logic: Sharingan Sasuke > MS Itachi, becuase Itachi is the one who died?

Except hiruzen didn't plan that fight out and plan from the beginning to die. You even show us scans of him saying he'd defeat oro yet he died while only managing to seal off some jutsu - not even oro himself. lmfao.

 

[startup97]

Hiruzen didn't scare Orochimaru, the death god did. You fans keep mentiom CQC like that automatically means Hiruzen is stronger, it's really pathetic.

See the second panel on the bottom right, he was starting to get frightened.

 

[TobiramaWaterStyle]

Yet Orochimaru needed pawns to defeat an old man way past his prime to think himself strong.

Hiruzen in one on one solos no diff.

 

[startup97]

Yet Orochimaru needed pawns to defeat an old man way past his prime to think himself strong.

Hiruzen in one on one solos no diff.

Nice to have good people here!

 

[HiddenSound]

Yet Orochimaru needed pawns to defeat an old man way past his prime to think himself strong.

Hiruzen in one on one solos no diff.

Do you honestly believe that?
Orochimaru was torturing Hiruzen.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Tell me what Hiruzen could possibly do to harm Orochimaru besides that one suicide move.

 

[Joker]

Do you honestly believe that?
Orochimaru was torturing Hiruzen.

Spoiler

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Tell me what Hiruzen could possibly do to harm Orochimaru besides that one suicide move.

Preeeeeaaaaacch

 

[omarsen]

Do you honestly believe that?
Orochimaru was torturing Hiruzen.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Tell me what Hiruzen could possibly do to harm Orochimaru besides that one suicide move.

physical attack wont have any harm on Orochimaru.

Spoiler

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Hiruzen's main objective was to stop the edos, since he wanted to make sure that Orochimaru or anybody else wont use them again.

If Hiruzen went 1v1 against Orochimaru, he would have sealed him completly, but would that make Orochimaru "dead"? since his "Sanin chakra" lived among hundrends of his expermients.

Orochimaru is like voldemort, if you want to kill him, you need to make sure that there are no other people with his curse mark, and then seal him in a battle.

Hiruzen did win the battle. Not my fault that Orochimaru wanted to "toy" with hiruzen and underestimated him.

 

[startup97]

Do you honestly believe that?
Orochimaru was torturing Hiruzen.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Tell me what Hiruzen could possibly do to harm Orochimaru besides that one suicide move.

Only reason why Orochimaru was playing with him is because he had the Edos. Without them, he would have easily been stomped.

 

[HiddenSound]

Only reason why Orochimaru was playing with him is because he had the Edos. Without them, he would have easily been stomped.

Enlighten me.

Hiruzen did win the battle.

Um, no. First, his main objective was to kill Orochimaru, that was painfully clear.
And second, he wound up dead because he didn't have enough strength to completely seal away Orochimaru. Again, he lost the battle, not the war.

 

[omarsen]

Enlighten me.

Um, no. First, his main objective was to kill Orochimaru, that was painfully clear.
And second, he wound up dead because he didn't have enough strength to completely seal away Orochimaru. Again, he lost the battle, not the war.

So you would define victory to Hiruzen if he completely sealed Orochimaru? answer

again, as i said, wouldn't make any difference, orochimaru sanin chakra would still lived among his experments, unless you want Hiruzen to go and search the entire Narutoverse, inorder to clear those who got curse mark.

everybody thought that Itachi did seal the original Oro, but no, he was still living inside somebody ,somewehere else.

 

[HiddenSound]

So you would define victory to Hiruzen if he completely sealed Orochimaru? answer

again, as i said, wouldn't make any difference, orochimaru sanin chakra would still lived among his experments, unless you want Hiruzen to go and search the entire Narutoverse, inorder to clear those who got curse mark.

everybody thought that Itachi did seal the original Oro, but no, he was still living inside somebody ,somewehere else.

Not exactly. Hiruzen couldn't win against Orochimaru in that particular confrontation. His only chance to stop Orochimaru was Shiki Fuujin. If Hiruzen had successfully sealed away Orochimaru, that battle would have ended in a draw. But it didn't. Hiruzen sacrificed himself to take away Orochimaru's Jutsu. That's all he could do in that battle. Orochimaru was left standing and Hiruzen was dead. The winner was Orochimaru.

 

[startup97]

Enlighten me.

Spoiler

It becomes very clear from the scans that Orochimaru was no match from Hiruzen if it were a 1v1 straight up match. Hiruzen only used the Reaper because it was the only thing he had left since he was running out of Chakra.

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[omarsen]

Not exactly. Hiruzen couldn't win against Orochimaru in that particular confrontation. His only chance to stop Orochimaru was Shiki Fuujin. If Hiruzen had successfully sealed away Orochimaru, that battle would have ended in a draw. But it didn't. Hiruzen sacrificed himself to take away Orochimaru's Jutsu. That's all he could do in that battle. Orochimaru was left standing and Hiruzen was dead. The winner was Orochimaru.

Great points gonna give you that.

Hiruzen didn't have any other choice, beside Shiki Fuujin. Because he wanted to make sure that nobody else was going to summon them again against the village.

Spoiler

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Hiruzen was capable of using any jutsu that are not a KKG in konoha. He sure had other sealing techniques, but wanted to use Shiki Fuujin, becuase unbreaking Shiki Fuujin would result in self sacrifice.

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Who else had knowlgde of the Edo.

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you do realize that 20-50% edo Hashirama+Tobirama still stomp Konoha.

 

[TobiramaWaterStyle]

If the edo's weren't present Hiruzen would've had more chakra and stamina to seal Orochimaru, but due to him having to use clones he no longer had that stamina.

 

[startup97]

If the edo's weren't present Hiruzen would've had more chakra and stamina to seal Orochimaru, but due to him having to use clones he no longer had that stamina.

Therefore he was forced to use the Reaper on Orochimaru right? It's what we have been trying to tell people.