Ending the already legendary Itachi vs Minato debate

[Da Best Ever]

Itachi solos Minato because of Genjutsu.

Itachi solos Nagato because of Genjutsu.

Itachi solos Hashirama because of Genjutsu.

The Genjutsu argument can be applied to just about any non-Uchiha and it's simply retarded to say that a Hokage-level Shinobi would get trapped by a Genjutsu that got Chuunin-level Naruto [Finger Genjutsu].

i doubt itachi can beat nagato with genjutsu or hashirama

 

[Avinash012]

wasnt aware of this code or password? If im wrong thats my bad.

Sorry it was actually my fault,they didn't said anything like possword or code they said that Itachi knew how to by pass the barrier because he was formar ANBU. I don't think it is a special ability of Itachi since every ANBU/konoha shinobi can do that.

 

[sharingansennin]

Title says it all. I believe Minato already showed enough for us to put this debate between Itachi and Minato in the past and i'll explain why as shortly as possible U_U

Like most people know already, the only argument Itachi fans are currently handing on in debate concerne the genjutsu part. I'll show why even that is irrelevant now. Anyway let's start U_U

1- Knowledge

Minato was the Hokage(strongest person in the village) in a era with full of Uchihas. His knowledge on them was so vast he knew none of them would have the capacity to control the nine tails, to the point he declared only the dead Madara could control the beast. Not only that, but he even created a contract seal that stops the Sharingan control on the nine tails. In battle, he even already showed his extensive knowledge of it when [

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] the moment to place the seal.

I defy any of you to show me a mangapage where Minato said he looks directly into Uchihas eyes when he fights. Some people however usually like to post pictures of Minato facing Obito to say he was looking at his Sharingan, but let me tell you that facing someone doesn't automatically mean you're looking at his eyes. Gai for example is the common example pro Uchihas use as the only one who masters the fighting style without eye contact against Uchihas, but even him has shown shown to face Uchihas face to face [

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] [

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]

During the fight against Itachi's copy, we've seen where Kakashi looks when he fights him(his body) [

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], yet we see them facing each other as if nothing happened [

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]

From an outside perspective then, a reader may think they are looking at each other when in Kakashi's perspective it's not the case

So again, being face to face with someone =/= looking directly at someone's eyes. I for example can be standing straight infront of you without even paying attention to you, let alone looking at your eyes

It's for those reasons i personally always believe the argument about Minato not knowing how to fight Uchihas is a desperate one

2- Reflexive speed

Another factors always overlooked in this battle. Sasuke, a Uchiha mentioned several times in this manga to possess better eyes than his brother Itachi couldn't follow Raikage's speed with his MS

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Same Raikage who was stated to have comparable reflexive speed to Minato by his own bodyguard [

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], himself even going a step further by completely admitting inferiority in the category [

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], something that was even backed-up by feats during their encounter

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The dude move so fast it makes him sweat

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Minato's shunshin is so great even KCM Naruto's Shunshin(that blitzed Itachi's partner) was said to pale in comparison to that of the fourth

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, comparable to a yellow flash

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He can cross large distances before Sasuke's Choku tomoe can register

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So, if you can't even follow your opponent with your eyes [

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], let alone make eye contact with him, how can you cast a genjutsu on him? What people often think is that because Sharingan genjutsu is a occular attack, it's automatic that when someone look at the eyes he falls under the genjutsu. No, it's not like that. Even when the eye contact is made, the genjutsu user still should be in the position where he made the chakra build up through his eyes and cast it for that to be successful. Genjutsu like any other techniques requires chakra to be used. In the meantime, anything could happen especially while facing a speedster. He would most likely be forced to play the defensive here more than anything else(Susanoo most likely)

3- Sensing ability

Spoiler

Even with the above mentioned, i could understand a concern of debate, but with the latest chapter definitely proving Minato is a sensor, i personally believe the argument about genjutsu went out of the window

Minato is a great sensor. To determine how great a sensor is, you can notice his sensor field. Ao's sensory unit for example needed large equipments just to sense Kumo's battlefield. Great sensors like Minato and Tobirama however are capable to sense even countries away(from Konoha to Kumo) and all that without equipments

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Minato can sense chakra build up since he has shown the capacity to notify the change in chakra when a Bijuu is extracted. This is particularly interesting especially when you know that a Bijuu's power can't even be sensed inside a Jinchuriki unless his chakra comes out from one or another reason, so there is no possible ways to notice if one is even a Jinchuriki or a normal person, let alone know whether a Bijuu gets extracted or not, yet Minato did just that. On the picture above you can also notice that even before that, during his revival, he was capable not only to notify Naruto's chakra inside the nine tails countries away, but notice he completely controlled the Kyubi and they were fighting together

As a counter-example for example, Naruto who managed to sense Minato's chakra battlefields away as well [

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], only noticed Minato's control over the nine tails when he actually used it infront of him [

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]. That speaks volume concerning Minato's sensing abilities

Sensors are capable to sense chakra build inside the body(like you can see above with Minato as well)

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It helps to prevent even occular attacks, which means before Itachi even thinks about puting Minato in a genjutsu, he would know

Also, even in case you're caught inside a genjutsu(outside tsukuyomi of course) a sensor can identify it directly by noticing the disturbance in the flow. It works for every genjutsu since even Shisui's KA was detected by Ao

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4- Kage Bunshin

Minato can use clones as well

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We already know genjutsu are useless on clones since they are fake. Using a genjutsu on a clone would only be a waste of time, especially when you know the chakra can be manipulated at will to break the illusion [

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]

So really, Itachi has nothing on Minato on the genjutsu part as well.

Now that i've completely debunked the sole arguments made by Itachi fans, i'll end by saying this

How Minato ends the fight

This move is enough for Minato to end this fight

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He doesn't need more. The moment Itachi is surrounded by kunais, either he dies in a blitz or he dies from Susanoo overuse especially with his desease.

Hope you enjoyed reading U_U

Hokage: Strongest in the Village:

Kakashi>Tsunade
Mighty Guy>Tsunade
Danzo Shimura>Tsunade
Naruto>Tsunade
Sasuke>Tsunade

 

[End of Days]

I was just about to post this scan..

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[~Sky~]

Hokage: Strongest in the Village:

Kakashi>Tsunade
Mighty Guy>Tsunade
Danzo Shimura>Tsunade
Naruto>Tsunade
Sasuke>Tsunade

Everyone's stronger than Tsunade doe.

 

[Bronze]

Not really. What i'm trying to tell you is that sensor is basically like a mode. As long as a sensor build chakra, he can sense. Sensors can sense while battling. Tobirama used suiton suidanha while sensing Naruto, Minato used rasengan while sensing Naruto, he sensed Obito while maintaining the hokage barrier, like he sensed the place where he would redirect Kyubi's Bijudama was safe with sensing alone while redirecting said bijudama. He sensed Obito behind him despite being distracted by fighting Kyubi. Only case when they fail to sense in this case like i've said is when they are too distracted to sense something they normally should have

@Bold: [

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]. The Rasengan deactivated the moment Minato turned his sensing on. The line proves it.

@Underlined: [

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] Everyone on the battlefield sensed Obito because he was screaming from Madara's black rod. Its no Chakra sensory feat.

@Italic: That's not Chakra sensory feat lol. He sent it there because he knew he placed the kunai over there.

@Red: Not a Chakra sensory feat. Shinobi can feel danger around them through hearing, smelling etc [

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].

Yes and Minato is going to be distracted when fighting Itachi who can utilize crows with Bunshin. As Manga said and showed, he cant fight and sense accurately.

 

[Da Best Ever]

I thought Itachi knew the password.

no kakashi said that only someone that was came from konoha could have known the password, that was just kakashi making an assumption, AO words in the war about itachi being undectable is more likely true and explains why itachi got through the barrier because i doubt konoha would keep the same code for years that would be stupid

 

[Prince Charles]

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Oh I take that back then, thanks for the clarification. But I am still iffy on the whole pass/code but I will agree with you.

@Bogard, I still want your thoughts on my post #81

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

naruto knew itachi and nagato were trying to kill since kabuto restricted their thoughts so why wouldnt he be trying to move fast or outmanuever itachi who was trying to kill him...

also naruto losing chakra had nothig to do with his speed, u can make that claim only if he lost all his chakra and didnt have kcm but he did so...


we've seen itachi shukien skills several times we have only seen minato through ftg kunai all over the ground and directly at his opponenet, itachi was hitting targets blindfolded when he was akid and while his target was behind other objects...there is a big difference, and inorder for minato to get to itachi he needs to his kunai to reach itachi, if itachi hits the kunai and they fall short then minato doesnt reach itachi and it would just be a taijutsu battle...ms can read base minato's speed movements so...#Levels


also sasuke's ms visual prowess never surpassed itachi's...sasuke's amaterasu use and manipulation of it surpassed itachi's...u do knw itachi has ms before he killed his clan, and he has been gone from the village for some years now so i would imagine he has been using ms for some years before the affects were shown, sasuke had just got his ms was was already going blind after a few uses...even kakashi's and obito's use of ms is was way more efficiently used than sasuke with his ms

are you trying to say that Itachi can hit a bullet traveling at hypersonic speed with a kunai flying at subsonic speed. You must be crazy dude.

 

[Bogard]

In regards to your genjutsu point and minato's sensory abilities, it is true that he can tell whether or not if he is in a genjutsu but karin only checked due to the suspicious behavior or danoz being constantly revived which

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, karin was able to pull that off due to her not being directly in the battle so she had the time and means to pull that off, minato will be in a battle against itachi in which itachi will be pressuring minato, minato won't have the chance to concentrate as karin did to check if his in a genjutsu and also the fact that minato first has to realize he is in a genjutsu.

No, the reason Karin couldn't do it before than she could have is simply because she wasn't molding chakra for the sensing. Like i've already said, as long as the sensor is molding chakra, he can sense even while fighting

One of Mifune's subordinate for example asked Ao to check if Mifune was put inside a genjutsu, something Ao quickly replied to without struggling simply because his sensing ability was active

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So as long as Minato's sensing ability is active, Itachi has nothing on Minato with the genjutsu part

Itachi can replicate the real world perfectly so minato will first have to figure he is in a genjutsu, by the time he does it's over,

Well like i've showed above, if Minato's sensing ability is active(by molding chakra), this is useless since no matter how real Itachi's genjutsu is, it still disturbs ones chakra something a sensor like Minato would notice. Now even without it, i'd like to point out that Bee(who is not particularly known for his great intelligence) quickly noticed Itach's genjutsu despite not being a sensor

if it's tyusukuyomi he finished regardless of knowing if his in a genjutsu which goes back to the fact how Itachi mentioned in part 1 no one can break his tysukuyomi(excluding sasuke and jinchuriki) so I don't see minato breaking it when even kakashi couldn't and he wielded a sharigan.

Of course he can't break it, but here comes the part where the chakra build up sensed by sensors is important:

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Sensors are capable to notice the chakra build up in the eye

So even before Itachi think about using Tsukuyomi, Minato would know

Not mention we don't even have knowledge in Minato's skill in breaking genjutsu, even he can it doesnt guarantee that he will be able to break out of the genjutsu.

Minato has perfect chakra control from creating the highest shape manipulation(rasengan). Besides, he is capable to mold chakra to match any types of individual traits. This feat alone shows his chakra control is so great that breaking a genjutsu would be easy for him. Infact since he is capable to mold the type of his chakra to match any other, all he has to do when he is put inside a genjutsu is to change his controlled chakra into something else, and the genjutsu wouldn't work anymore

 

[Da Best Ever]

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pain said itachi would've known the code which means he didnt know exactly how itachi got through the barrier...it would be stupid for konoha to keep the same code for a bunch of years, despite several rogue nija like itachi, oro, kabuto, the guy who tried to trick naruto into stealing the forbidden jutsu's and etc.

 

[Invsblphntm]

Are we speaking of the guy who defeated Obito via PNJ? Izanagi neg diff Minato and that is Obito at the age of 14.

Thanks for the laughs but Orochimaru himself gets caught like a rookie.
People tend to think that genjutsu users are all the same which leads them to deny his yin mastery in disguise.

Did you just say Minato beat Obito via Plot-no-Jutsu? Haha, good one.

Izanagi requires hand seals and offering a Sharingan. [

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] He wouldn't have had a chance to do these hand seals. And to top it all of Obito only had one Sharingan, his Mangekyou, seeing as he obtained the other from the Uchiha massacre. If he loses that eye, he is complete fodder.

 

[sharingansennin]

ok so no Kyubbi chakra because minato sealed half the kyubbi into his body right before death, unless its edo itachi vs edo minato which isn't the case.

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

Are we speaking of the guy who defeated Obito via PNJ? Izanagi neg diff Minato and that is Obito at the age of 14.

Thanks for the laughs but Orochimaru himself gets caught like a rookie.
People tend to think that genjutsu users are all the same which leads them to deny his yin mastery in disguise.

What PNJ ? It was a decent fight and both had their chance. Minato himself said that it was a battle of speed. If minato teleported at the wrong time then He would had been sucked in Kamui. It was a 50 -50 battle.
while Itachi pawning Kabuto was PNJ because Itachi pulled off izanami crap out of nowhere .

Orochimaru was reckless and careless during that battle. you will get a dog bite if you try to catch a dog by its tail =D
Minato was the leader of all uchihaa at that time. Sure he knows about Genjutsu and how to counter it or avoid it all together.

 

[Da Best Ever]

No, the reason Karin couldn't do it before than she could have is simply because she wasn't molding chakra for the sensing. Like i've already said, as long as the sensor is molding chakra, he can sense even while fighting

One of Mifune's subordinate for example asked Ao to check if Mifune was put inside a genjutsu, something Ao quickly replied to without struggling simply because his sensing ability was active

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So as long as Minato's sensing ability is active, Itachi has nothing on Minato with the genjutsu part

Well like i've showed above, if Minato's sensing ability is active(by molding chakra), this is useless since no matter how real Itachi's genjutsu is, it still disturbs ones chakra something a sensor like Minato would notice. Now even without it, i'd like to point out that Bee(who is not particularly known for his great intelligence) quickly noticed Itach's genjutsu despite not being a sensor

Of course he can't break it, but here comes the part where the chakra build up sensed by sensors is important:

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Sensors are capable to notice the chakra build up in the eye

So even before Itachi think about using Tsukuyomi, Minato would know

Minato has perfect chakra control from creating the highest shape manipulation(rasengan). Besides, he is capable to mold chakra to match any types of individual traits. This feat alone shows his chakra control is so great that breaking a genjutsu would be easy for him. Infact since he is capable to chakra the type of his chakra, all he has to do when he is put inside a genjutsu is to change his controlled chakra into something else, and the genjutsu wouldn't work anymore

u dnt seem to understand AO said itachi cant go undetectable to sensors, that smeans while they are sensing, u keep talkig as if he meant itachi can only do it while they arent kneading chakra, in that case anyone can go undetectable then...AO said itachi is undectable to sensor so what are u saying, AO said itachi is the only shinobi who can go undetectable to sensors...u got all offended when n=all itachi fans started taling shit and said they were taling shit because they cant refute what u say but when the evidence was just shown of itachi being undectable to sensor u blindly ignor it knowing u are wrong...


minato cant sense it before its coming because AO said itachi ws the only shinob that is undectable while using genjutsu..what dnt u understand...#Ridiculousness

 

[Bogard]

@Bold: [

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]. The Rasengan deactivated the moment Minato turned his sensing on. The line proves it.

@Underlined: [

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] Everyone on the battlefield sensed Obito because he was screaming from Madara's black rod. Its no Chakra sensory feat.

@Italic: That's not Chakra sensory feat lol. He sent it there because he knew he placed the kunai over there.

@Red: Not a Chakra sensory feat. Shinobi can feel danger around them through hearing, smelling etc [

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].

Yes and Minato is going to be distracted when fighting Itachi who can utilize crows with Bunshin. As Manga said and showed, he cant fight and sense accurately.

No his rasengan was active during sensing. It disappears after sensing, and it only disappeard because of Minato's sorrow finding out his son is possibly dead

You didn't get it concerning the Obito part either. What i meant is that he knew the guy above the Jubi was the masked guy he once fought despite having never seen his face, so he did sense his chakra to realise it

Because you know you place a kunai somewhere means no one would walk over there? I'm pretty sure that even at the present moment, someone is walking around your home without you knowing

You didn't get anything. The distraction part concern something happening outside the sensor's perspective. In case of battle between Itachi and Minato however, his only concern would be to defeat Itachi(the opponent he is facing) just like his lone concern in latest chapter was to save Obito inside BZ and thus would be concentrating on his opponent(Itachi). Distraction isn't happening in this case

 

[End of Days]

no kakashi said that only someone that was came from konoha could have known the password, that was just kakashi making an assumption, AO words in the war about itachi being undectable is more likely true and explains why itachi got through the barrier because i doubt konoha would keep the same code for years that would be stupid

pain said itachi would've known the code which means he didnt know exactly how itachi got through the barrier...it would be stupid for konoha to keep the same code for a bunch of years, despite several rogue nija like itachi, oro, kabuto, the guy who tried to trick naruto into stealing the forbidden jutsu's and etc.

"kakashi made an assumption"

"pein doesnt know anything"

"konoha cant keep same code for years"

i have literally zero interest in fanfiction right now, itachi knew the code jutsu which allowed him to get through the barrier, thats it

 

[Prince Charles]

No, the reason Karin couldn't do it before than she could have is simply because she wasn't molding chakra for the sensing. Like i've already said, as long as the sensor is molding chakra, he can sense even while fighting

One of Mifune's subordinate for example asked Ao to check if Mifune was put inside a genjutsu, something Ao quickly replied to without struggling simply because his sensing ability was active

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So as long as Minato's sensing ability is active, Itachi has nothing on Minato with the genjutsu part

Well like i've showed above, if Minato's sensing ability is active(by molding chakra), this is useless since no matter how real Itachi's genjutsu is, it still disturbs ones chakra something a sensor like Minato would notice. Now even without it, i'd like to point out that Bee(who is not particularly known for his great intelligence) quickly noticed Itach's genjutsu despite not being a sensor

Of course he can't break it, but here comes the part where the chakra build up sensed by sensors is important:

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Sensors are capable to notice the chakra build up in the eye

So even before Itachi think about using Tsukuyomi, Minato would know

Minato has perfect chakra control from creating the highest shape manipulation(rasengan). Besides, he is capable to mold chakra to match any types of individual traits. This feat alone shows his chakra control is so great that breaking a genjutsu would be easy for him. Infact since he is capable to mold the type of his chakra to match any other, all he has to do when he is put inside a genjutsu is to change his controlled chakra into something else, and the genjutsu wouldn't work anymore

The basis if your argument basically rely on the fact that Minato's sensing abilities will steadily be on from the moment of battle? Well than I won't deny that Minato chances are higher but Ill wait for owarij to comment since my knowledge on sensing is poor compared to his.

u dnt seem to understand AO said itachi cant go undetectable to sensors, that smeans while they are sensing, u keep talkig as if he meant itachi can only do it while they arent kneading chakra, in that case anyone can go undetectable then...AO said itachi is undectable to sensor so what are u saying, AO said itachi is the only shinobi who can go undetectable to sensors...u got all offended when n=all itachi fans started taling shit and said they were taling shit because they cant refute what u say but when the evidence was just shown of itachi being undectable to sensor u blindly ignor it knowing u are wrong...


minato cant sense it before its coming because AO said itachi ws the only shinob that is undectable while using genjutsu..what dnt u understand...#Ridiculousness

I was thinking this as well...

 

[Da Best Ever]

What PNJ ? It was a decent fight and both had their chance. Minato himself said that it was a battle of speed. If minato teleported at the wrong time then He would had been sucked in Kamui. It was a 50 -50 battle.
while Itachi pawning Kabuto was PNJ because Itachi pulled off izanami crap out of nowhere .

Orochimaru was reckless and careless during that battle. you will get a dog bite if you try to catch a dog by its tail =D
Minato was the leader of all uchihaa at that time. Sure he knows about Genjutsu and how to counter it or avoid it all together.

because he was the hokage doesnt mean he knws how to counter all jutsu in the village, thats like saying tobirama can counter hashirama's buddha just because he knows he has it...#Ridiculousness

 

[Bogard]

The basis if your argument basically rely on the fact that Minato's sensing abilities will steadily be on from the moment of battle? Well than I won't deny that Minato chances are higher but Ill wait for owarij to comment since my knowledge on sensing is poor compared to his.

We debated about it here if you want:

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