Madara can win without even susano ,his reactions ,reflexes and speed are good enough to easily evade the raikage in CQC then cast a short range genjutsu on him and force him to kill himself with hell stab .as simple as that Lol.
well considering that sasukes chidori blade (which has its penetration enhanced by raiton) bounced off Ay who is far inferior to his father in durability,
then its completely absurd thing that a regular blade can pierce through him,
If your argument is common sense. Let me know now so I can stop wasting my time.
Not sure why you wasted a good 2 sentences proving that Baku enhances Danzo's Fuuton when I already know that, and it doesn't really change anything I've said when it comes to FRS's power.
I said HALF Kurama wouldn't be able to damage Complete Susanoo with it's physical power. Not FULL Kurama. I said FULL Kurama wouldn't be able to do heavy damage. BM Naruto already canonically failed to hurt Madara's V3 Susanoo with his tail slap. It took his plus 8 other Bijuu to destroy it. No reason to believe that Half Kurama alone can destroy it. Your listing of Naruto's strength feats are irrelevant, and they only show how poor your support really is in the end.
Half Kurama is irrelevant since Madara v4 Susanoo is much stronger than it offensively since we already seen and standing nearly overpower Shukaku. @Bold- He told them to aid him there was no evidence suggesting Madara v3 Susanoo wasn't damaged plus that Susanoo was SM inpowered. Not really when chakra hands have shown some impressive strength feats and BM Kurama or Full Kurama strength feats will on an tire new level.
You take a very low end feat from a weaker version of Naruto, and then you say since this Naruto is much stronger, he should be able to do what you are saying he can do, despite not having any evidence to prove that it's true. Then there's the fact that the Manga showing that BM Naruto physically can't harm a Complete Susanoo means that this logic is faulty anyway.
So? How does Son Goku being able to toss Bijuu change anything I've stated? Not even a counter. The only thing I can see working is the Susanoo blade while his armor is off. But I need more than "common sense" as an argument from my opposition.
That is evidence if a much weaker form of Kurama chakra physically did things impressive like hold back an angry Bijuu physical strength then full Kurama would clobber something on a much weaker scale such as the 3rd Raikage and his puny durability that was bypassed by a Rasenshuriken. You keep saying full Kurama can't harm a completely Susanoo but Madara v4 susanoo would completely wreck another v4 Susanoo from Sasuke or Itachi. It was for the Naruto case seeing as it was strong enough to toss Bijuu but it couldn't bypass the Chakra hands physical powers.
All I see in this post are hollow ass comparisons with barely anything backing them. Zero reason for me to believe Magatama will go from being tanked by the Golem and Sand Shield combo to being able to rip right through someone who can tank Rasen Shuriken despite it being super effective against his armor.
Though Madara can win since we are talking about him hitting the Raikage after he's put him in Genjutsu. Once he's in Genjutsu his armor drops and his durability drops significantly. But regardless, your points are wrong.
Stop that was Gaara and Oonoki strongest defense the Golem alone already tanked explosion[
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] They don'y have to rip through him to put him down.
No Susanoo can tank Rasen Shuriken with a negligible amount of damage bar Itachi's V4, Madara's V4, and all PS in the Manga. Raikage can. Do the math. Then there's the fact that he's implied to be strong enough to take a BD, and there's the fact that FRS was wind, so it didn't need to be as strong as any other type attack to get past the Raikage's defense because it is strong against the armor. An attack equal in power with FRS, but a completely different element, would do far less damage to the Raikage.
A standard v4 Susanoo can unless you can disprove this? Hell a v3 Susanoo alone allowed Itachi to survive a mountain buster. @Bold- Which is completely false seeing as if he was alive he would have been one shotted by a Rasenshuriken. Bases off what Futon>Ration?
So unless you can prove a swing from Madara's V4 Susanoo is >> FRS. Then he's not going to "obliterate" the Raikage. Your Magatama point has zero evidence backing it. It's pretty much just a statement. Your physical strength point is just plain silly.
This all boils down to your common sense at the end of the day, which I don't care for. If you can't prove your point with evidence then don't reply. I'll agree that Madara's Susanoo can eventually injure a Raikage w/o his cloak. With his cloak? Not happening.
without PS there is absolutely no way he could hurt the raikage,
his susanoo wont have the durability to tank something as powerful as nukite either, nor would it be fast enough to repeatedly evade it menaing that its bound to land and eventually bypass his construct,
if one hit isnt enough to take out his large V4, then 2-3 should be enough
sharingan genjutsu is not happening considering V1 Ay avoided genjutsu from 5 madaras and was only caught until he was distracted by tsunades injury, no reason to believe that third raikage is falling prey to it
Susanoo grabs then Genjutsu simple. EMS Madara is much faster then the 3rd Raikage. SM Naruto managed to dodge and counter attack him. SM Naruto was then nearly blitzed by a blind Madara. This Susanoo won't be able to tank Nukite?[
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] Juubito liquid TSB's were tanked by a Susanoo[
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] unless you think Nukite is more powerful than that as well L0000l. Yupp Madara is going to sit there why Raikage just keep jabbing his Susanoo once he gets in cqc he's grabbed or pounded to sleep. I need a scan suggesting Madara was trying to use genjutsu on Ei prior to using it on him?
Madara with low difficulty. Either Susanoo grabs him and Sharingan: Genjutsu manipulates him to kill himself through Hell Stab, or non-stabilized PS cuts him clean.
Half Kurama is irrelevant since Madara v4 Susanoo is much stronger than it offensively since we already seen and standing nearly overpower Shukaku. @Bold- He told them to aid him there was no evidence suggesting Madara v3 Susanoo wasn't damaged plus that Susanoo was SM inpowered. Not really when chakra hands have shown some impressive strength feats and BM Kurama or Full Kurama strength feats will on an tire new level.
His V3 Susanoo never matched Shukaku in physical strength. What Manga are you reading? It broke his sand pyramid and jumped back, then it got manhandled by BM Naruto.
@bold: We saw no injury nor was there any implication of injury. So there was no injury. That simple. It being Sage empowered isn't going to change anything when it still took all 9 Bijuu hitting it at once with their tails to break it. Kurama isn't breaking one alone. SM doesn't grant a 9x boost to anyone's techniques either.
Half Kurama not being able to put a dent on V3 Susanoo pretty much means that Full Kurama won't be strong enough to one shot it. Full Kurama and Madara's V4 are most likely on the same plane of physical strength. Thus V4 is not pounding someone more durable than a V3 Susanoo to death.
Which doesn't prove your argument for the same reasons I have already listed. It's best feats are crushing rocks. Lmao. BASE Gai crushes boulders with a single hit. Let's stop overrating please.
That is evidence if a much weaker form of Kurama chakra physically did things impressive like hold back an angry Bijuu physical strength then full Kurama would clobber something on a much weaker scale such as the 3rd Raikage and his puny durability that was bypassed by a Rasenshuriken. You keep saying full Kurama can't harm a completely Susanoo but Madara v4 susanoo would completely wreck another v4 Susanoo from Sasuke or Itachi. It was for the Naruto case seeing as it was strong enough to toss Bijuu but it couldn't bypass the Chakra hands physical powers.
You are literally repeating the same arguments that I have already countered.
I've proven that Full Kurama can't obliterate a V3 Susanoo. You are "saying" that Madara's V4 would one shot any others, but that's only with the blade. Zero proof on your side that Madara's V4 would wreck any other V4 with physical strength alone.
Stop that was Gaara and Oonoki strongest defense the Golem alone already tanked explosion[
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] They don'y have to rip through him to put him down.
Which is not relevant. You still have no conclusive proof. Just a shaky analogy.
A standard v4 Susanoo can unless you can disprove this? Hell a v3 Susanoo alone allowed Itachi to survive a mountain buster. @Bold- Which is completely false seeing as if he was alive he would have been one shotted by a Rasenshuriken. Bases off what Futon>Ration?
It's much stronger than Danzo's tech, which put a hole in V3. V4 can't tank something that'd obliterate most of V3. V3 let him survive Kirin, which is a very very low end Mountain Buster. The Hideout was on a small Mountain/Large Hill, and the energy was only enough to reduce it to rubble. Not vaporize it like Bijuu Dama.
Wrong. He tanked that FRS in canon. So how in the world would it have killed him? lmao. Don't go against canon.
And yes. Based off of Futon being strong against Raiton.
A weaker version of Susanoo was able to produce destructive capabilities greater than a rasenshuriken shown here[
His V3 Susanoo never matched Shukaku in physical strength. What Manga are you reading? It broke his sand pyramid and jumped back, then it got manhandled by BM Naruto.
@bold: We saw no injury nor was there any implication of injury. So there was no injury. That simple. It being Sage empowered isn't going to change anything when it still took all 9 Bijuu hitting it at once with their tails to break it. Kurama isn't breaking one alone. SM doesn't grant a 9x boost to anyone's techniques either.
Actually it did Shukaku made this Pyramid with it's body[
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]. You couldn't even see the Susanoo what do you mean we saw no damage? @BOLD- Just because something was used doesn't mean that it's absolutely needed to break something. Who ever said it does?
Half Kurama not being able to put a dent on V3 Susanoo pretty much means that Full Kurama won't be strong enough to one shot it. Full Kurama and Madara's V4 are most likely on the same plane of physical strength. Thus V4 is not pounding someone more durable than a V3 Susanoo to death.
Which doesn't prove your argument for the same reasons I have already listed. It's best feats are crushing rocks. Lmao. BASE Gai crushes boulders with a single hit. Let's stop overrating please.
You sound crazy. Madara's v4 Susanoo would obliterate a regular v4 Susanoo with punch due to it's size alone.
Details below...(Size = More power in terms of strength)
If you were to drop this huge chunk of Ice(Madara v4 Susanoo)[
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] on a Ice cube this size(Regular size v4 Susanoo)[
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] the smaller ice would be crushed regardless if their both made from the same material. This is what applies to Susanoo or even a bigger human for that matter. If he take huge Choji and he could punch a smaller version of himself he would completely eradicate the small Choji due to his pure size.
Actually no it's best feats are holding back a Bijuu full strength.
You are literally repeating the same arguments that I have already countered.
I've proven that Full Kurama can't obliterate a V3 Susanoo. You are "saying" that Madara's V4 would one shot any others, but that's only with the blade. Zero proof on your side that Madara's V4 would wreck any other V4 with physical strength alone.
Because you didn't counter them that's why. V4 Susanoo would be physically stronger than full Kurama so you saying means nothing. I've already gave you an accurate comparison on how devastating a Susanoo blade was from a smaller Susanoo. A Susanoo on that caliber would completely eradicate the 3rd and his Durability. @Bold- Confronted the argument above.
Which is not relevant. You still have no conclusive proof. Just a shaky analogy.
So you honestly believe a standard Rasenshuriken would be more devastating than huge Magatama's from Madara's v4 Susanoo? You honestly believe Madara Full Kurama sized Susanoo can't dish out the damage that a Rasenshuriken can? Stop please first a YFRS can't pierce Kurama and now this?
It's much stronger than Danzo's tech, which put a hole in V3. V4 can't tank something that'd obliterate most of V3. V3 let him survive Kirin, which is a very very low end Mountain Buster. The Hideout was on a small Mountain/Large Hill, and the energy was only enough to reduce it to rubble. Not vaporize it like Bijuu Dama.
Danzo wind tech cut one layer off the Susanoo's back and it wasn't even the entire back quit saying put a hole in it when that's completely flawed all around. V4 can't tank something that would obliterate most of v3? Based off what exactly absolutely nothing. Quit trying to downplay the hideout when infact it was huge[
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]. I never stated it was as damaging as a Bijuudama not sure why you even mentioned that unless your trying to say that's what will be needed to take out the 3rd Raikage?
Wrong. He tanked that FRS in canon. So how in the world would it have killed him? lmao. Don't go against canon.
L0l if he was alive FRS would have ruined his entire chakra net work and paralyzed him just like it did Kakuzu so no he wouldn't have gotten right back up thanks to his edo body he was able to successfully tank a Rasenshuriken if he was alive he would have stayed down.
And yes. Based off of Futon being strong against Raiton.
Actually it did Shukaku made this Pyramid with it's body[
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]. You couldn't even see the Susanoo what do you mean we saw no damage? @BOLD- Just because something was used doesn't mean that it's absolutely needed to break something. Who ever said it does?
Irrelevant. Shukaku using the sand on his body to make the pyramid has jack shit to do with him physically overpowering Shukaku. That 9 Bijuu tail slap broke Susanoo and only took Madara's arm. So it is close to the bare minimum needed to break the Susanoo. If it were much much more than what is regularly needed, then Madara would've been obliterated.
You sound crazy. Madara's v4 Susanoo would obliterate a regular v4 Susanoo with punch due to it's size alone.
Details below...(Size = More power in terms of strength)
If you were to drop this huge chunk of Ice(Madara v4 Susanoo)[
You must be registered for see links
] on a Ice cube this size(Regular size v4 Susanoo)[
You must be registered for see links
] the smaller ice would be crushed regardless if their both made from the same material. This is what applies to Susanoo or even a bigger human for that matter. If he take huge Choji and he could punch a smaller version of himself he would completely eradicate the small Choji due to his pure size.
What a fail comparison. We aren't talking about Susanoo putting all it's weight on the other Susanoo. We are talking about Susanoo punching another Susanoo. Then there's the fact that it's because ice blocks are not even that durable, so the weight of something much larger is all that is needed to wreck it.
Uh, in KCM? Nope.
Because you didn't counter them that's why. V4 Susanoo would be physically stronger than full Kurama so you saying means nothing. I've already gave you an accurate comparison on how devastating a Susanoo blade was from a smaller Susanoo. A Susanoo on that caliber would completely eradicate the 3rd and his Durability. @Bold- Confronted the argument above.
There is nothing to counter. You are stating one thing, and saying it leads to another without actually getting evidence. When you have a real argument then I'll provide you with a real counter. The second sentence starts off with literally no evidence from your side, so there is nothing to address.
Prove it. Or stop posting.
So you honestly believe a standard Rasenshuriken would be more devastating than huge Magatama's from Madara's v4 Susanoo? You honestly believe Madara Full Kurama sized Susanoo can't dish out the damage that a Rasenshuriken can? Stop please first a YFRS can't pierce Kurama and now this?
Where are the feats? Where is the proof? Where is your evidence? Not to mention I said YRS wouldn't kill him. Never said it wouldn't pierce him. Don't twist my words to make yourself look less idiotic than you usually make yourself look.
Danzo wind tech cut one layer off the Susanoo's back and it wasn't even the entire back quit saying put a hole in it when that's completely flawed all around.
Oh wait, it is. It's just a big one. So please stop nitpicking over irrelevant details.
V4 can't tank something that would obliterate most of v3? Based off what exactly absolutely nothing. Quit trying to downplay the hideout when infact it was huge[
Based off of feats. There's little to no reason to believe that V4 is that strong. Just like there is little to no reason for me to keep taking you seriously when all you can do is moan when I don't agree with your opinions. Don't care for your opinions. I care for arguments backed with factual evidence.
The hideout being large literally doesn't change a thing I said. Is it as large as the Mountains that BD vaporizes? Nope. So you have no point here. Once again.
I never stated it was as damaging as a Bijuudama not sure why you even mentioned that unless your trying to say that's what will be needed to take out the 3rd Raikage?
L0l if he was alive FRS would have ruined his entire chakra net work and paralyzed him just like it did Kakuzu so no he wouldn't have gotten right back up thanks to his edo body he was able to successfully tank a Rasenshuriken if he was alive he would have stayed down.
With his cloak on? Yup. Without it? Nope. And you've given me more reason to believe that you can't formulate a real argument than you have to believe the assertions you've been making.
Cloaked out not his body is ruined. Then why are you still debating this if you know the 3rd Raikage wins?
3rd Raikage has a hard shell but once you break that shell he falls apart.
He has amazing resistance to getting damaged but once damaged he severely gets weakened.
And honestly 3rd Raikage's defense get severely overrated, he was able to damage himself, its ridiculous to think PS cant put out similar damaged to the 3rd attack. We havent seen what his 1 finger nukite can do outside of damaging himself so we can only scale up his
3rd Raikage has a hard shell but once you break that shell he falls apart.
He has amazing resistance to getting damaged but once damaged he severely gets weakened.
And honestly 3rd Raikage's defense get severely overrated, he was able to damage himself, its ridiculous to think PS cant put out similar damaged to the 3rd attack. We havent seen what his 1 finger nukite can do outside of damaging himself so we can only scale up his
Juubi sized Katon will roast him. And why should piercing his eyes (while he's paralyzed by a Genjutsu) not be an option? So are we suggesting that Madara, in a non plot fight, will say, I have no way to harm his body but I won't pierce his eyes, that's not in-character. As dumb as an opportunity may sounds, it is an opportunity.
And as for Susanoo's power; Kimimaro's bones are as hard as steel and in addition were strengthened by Kabuto's Sage Mode; yet, Itachi's v2 Susanoo easily cut through a row of them. Of course, Raikage's body may be harder, but not that much to say that he won't receive wounds. Just to keep in mind how hard Kimimaro's bones are; the Samurais chakra enhanced blades barely cut half through one bone (though Mifune tied in a clash with Sasuke's Raiton enhanced sword), Susanoo cut through a row of those bones which were probably even enhanced with Sage Mode. And btw, Temari's Fuuton (which she combined with the Fuuton of some alliance fodders) made some deep cuts in the Raikage's body. The Rasenshuriken maybe didn't more damage because it, in the first place, is designed to make damage on a cellular level.
So cutting through a row of with Senchakra enhanced bones of Kimimaro = at least leaving some deep cuts on Raikage's body. Susanoo's hit must be a dozen times stronger than Chakra enhanced blades, as, as I said, a Chakra enhanced blade couldn't even cut through one bone.
Summary:
-Temari leaves deep cuts on the Raikage's body with her Fuuton, which was strengthened by some alliance fodders (maybe the Rasenshuriken didn't because it is in the first place designed to do damage on a cellular level).
-A Chakra enhanced blade can't cut through one bone of Kimimaro.
-Susanoo cut through a row of Kimimaro's bones which were enhanced with Senchakra. And Senchakra enhances the resistance multiple times.
Juubi sized Katon will roast him. And why should piercing his eyes (while he's paralyzed by a Genjutsu) not be an option? So are we suggesting that Madara, in a non plot fight, will say, I have no way to harm his body but I won't pierce his eyes, that's not in-character. As dumb as an opportunity may sounds, it is an opportunity.
And as for Susanoo's power; Kimimaro's bones are as hard as steel and in addition were strengthened by Kabuto's Sage Mode; yet, Itachi's v2 Susanoo easily cut through a row of them. Of course, Raikage's body may be harder, but not that much to say that he won't receive wounds. Just to keep in mind how hard Kimimaro's bones are; the Samurais chakra enhanced blades barely cut half through one bone (though Mifune tied in a clash with Sasuke's Raiton enhanced sword), Susanoo cut through a row of those bones which were probably even enhanced with Sage Mode. And btw, Temari's Fuuton (which she combined with the Fuuton of some alliance fodders) made some deep cuts in the Raikage's body. The Rasenshuriken maybe didn't more damage because it, in the first place, is designed to make damage on a cellular level.
So cutting through a row of with Senchakra enhanced bones of Kimimaro = at least leaving some deep cuts on Raikage's body. Susanoo's hit must be a dozen times stronger than Chakra enhanced blades, as, as I said, a Chakra enhanced blade couldn't even cut through one bone.
Im sure it was Totsuka that cut through Kimmi's bones. Itachi's personal Susanoo weapon is a dagger. I dont see it having the range to slash through a field of bones.
Im sure it was Totsuka that cut through Kimmi's bones. Itachi's personal Susanoo weapon is a dagger. I dont see it having the range to slash through a field of bones.
] proves that he can't use the spiritual weapons in V2 (skeletal form). Despite that, he cut Kimimaro's bones in V2, the skeletal form. So it's my scan against your mere claim. Guess who's right at this point? Scan is canon unless disproved.
