Ems = bm

Dantee · Feb 25, 2015

theres no such thing as ashura avatar for naruto

Transcendence · Feb 25, 2015

' ~ Dantee ~ ' said:
theres no such thing as ashura avatar for naruto

His fused avatar looks almost identical to Ashura's Avatar, hence why we call it that.

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

SSSA said:
What does this have to do with what I was talking about? Almost everyone here said that Naruto would use his 2 Avatar Shurikens and that would be it for Sasuke. Why the hell would Naruto do something so stupid though? Sasuke would Amenotejikara next to Naruto and finish him off, because Naruto would be completely drained like last time. I also don't see why Sasuke would try to match this attack, if Naruto were to use it. Amenotejikara is a direct counter to that attack, hence why Naruto wouldn't use it.

About the moon splitting, there's a difference in attack potency and range of an attack. The attack Naruto tanked had the sufficient range to cut the moon in half, but only needed enough power to penetrate the moon. It's not like Naruto tanked a moon buster. He probably tanked much more damaging attacks in the war.

Right? Naruto would never send a large scale attack like that at Sasuke (evil or friendly) without him first sending his own canonically potent attack to counter that. It would be extremely horrible for both sides considering that Sasuke could simply evade the technique and reach Naruto like you stated. However, would that attack really drain Naruto? Considering that Sasuke took the chakra from the Bijuu to create the IndraArrow, it was mostly their chakra in the making, but even with Naruto using Kurama for the majority of the war, his own chakra pool was drastically low too. I would assume he got a refill after meeting the Sage though.

I would have to read the chapters again to see if he tanked anything that large of a scale. - KCM feats: (The fastest thing I can remember is; 4th Raikage Punch, and the Yoton lava from the 4 tails Jinchuriki) which barely broke through his KCM mode. Still good points.

Dantee · Feb 25, 2015

Korasi said:
His fused avatar looks almost identical to Ashura's Avatar, hence why we call it that.

i have reason to believe bijuu sussanoo is far above narutos avatar. Naruto just happened to counter withthe right oppossing affinity. knocking Sasuke out his bijuu susanoo.

Transcendence · Feb 25, 2015

' ~ Dantee ~ ' said:
i have reason to believe bijuu sussanoo is far above narutos avatar. Naruto just happened to counter withthe right oppossing affinity. knocking Sasuke out his bijuu susanoo.

Well taking it from a portrayal perspective, you'd be wrong. PS = Avatar, Different PS = Ashura's Avatar.

Just like Ashura and Indra were portrayed, PS was equal to his avatar.

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

' ~ Dantee ~ ' said:
i have reason to believe bijuu sussanoo is far above narutos avatar. Naruto just happened to counter withthe right oppossing affinity. knocking Sasuke out his bijuu susanoo.

My personal belief: Bijuu Susano'o + Amen. = Deadly combo.

Sasuke could easily blitz his way through the Ashura avatar to strike it, but considering what Naruto is best at is --Tanking, it would be extremely futile. I would not be surprised if the Avatar walks free, but damaged after taking a few beat downs until Amen's cooldown starts.

In the fight during VOTE2: Naruto created Four BSM clones, one got striked down immediately, and the other three were trying to match its power. It should be without a doubt able to match its strength and power considering it could create such a powerful technique to match Sasuke's strongest technique: Indra Arrow.

Kurama has never shown any lack luster when compared to the other Tailed Beast in power before. So I have no reason to doubt it's strength:

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Howling Fox · Feb 25, 2015

bm >>> ems
bsm >>>>> ems

Styles · Feb 25, 2015

Naruto and Sasuke are equals how are people not seeing this.

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

xTsuna said:
Naruto and Sasuke are equals how are people not seeing this.

KidGamer made a very great argument to why they aren't in the end. I'll look for it

riley freeman · Feb 25, 2015

Howling Fox said:
bm >>> ems
bsm >>>>> ems

Ems>>bm not the other way around

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

riley freeman said:
Ems>>bm not the other way around

lol no.
BM was ultimately defeating EMS during the stages of BM tanking a Juubi laser (feat wise)

Right now, BSM > EMS (PS) really hard too.

Styles · Feb 25, 2015

Di Raizel said:
KidGamer made a very great argument to why they aren't in the end. I'll look for it

Someone can't really go against Kishimoto's manga though he portrays them as equals.

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

xTsuna said:
Someone can't really go against Kishimoto's manga though he portrays them as equals.

Well Kishimoto only portrayed them as equals when they stabilized an equal amount of power throughout the battle. Kishimoto admitted in Sasuke's inferiority when he needed to create a Bijuu Susano'o to defeat Sasuke, however, Naruto can create the Ashura avatar to match it's power and stalemate his strongest technique in that form.

With Rinnegan Mastery obviously Sasuke moves up in strength/skill/durability.
Same with Naruto though, they permanently equal at Full Kurama v. Rinnegan Mastery by feats. Then we have to realize that Naruto can gather x2 as much NE he did last time, which creates these arguments over who is stronger.

Styles · Feb 25, 2015

Di Raizel said:
Well Kishimoto only portrayed them as equals when they stabilized an equal amount of power throughout the battle. Kishimoto admitted in Sasuke's inferiority when he needed to create a Bijuu Susano'o to defeat Sasuke, however, Naruto can create the Ashura avatar to match it's power and stalemate his strongest technique in that form.

With Rinnegan Mastery obviously Sasuke moves up in strength/skill/durability.
Same with Naruto though, they permanently equal at Full Kurama v. Rinnegan Mastery by feats. Then we have to realize that Naruto can gather x2 as much NE he did last time, which creates these arguments over who is stronger.

He didn't need to absorb the Bijuu chakra he did it because he wanted to kill Naruto with all he had. If his susano'o can have chakra stored in it like that then he shouldn't have no problem doing the same with Naruto's. Point is they'll forever be equals until Kishimoto says otherwise. But everyone have opinions can't change that.

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

xTsuna said:
He didn't need to absorb the Bijuu chakra he did it because he wanted to kill Naruto with all he had. If his susano'o can have chakra stored in it like that then he shouldn't have no problem doing the same with Naruto's. Point is they'll forever be equals until Kishimoto says otherwise. But everyone have opinions can't change that.

That's exactly where he admitted his inferiority in battle prowess. RSM Naruto was already a tier above Rinnegan Sasuke at that point.

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Sasuke:

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The only real time Rinnegan Sasuke's PS hit Kaguya was when Naruto canonically blitzed her arm off, which in turn Sasuke comes in for the strike and she tries to tackle a PS with a single arm. Doesn't end well for her.

Naruto's RSM feats alone surpass what we have seen from Sasuke at this point in time, and that gap of power had to be equaled out with another source of power. Perfect Susano'o alone was handing Naruto's avatar, but for how long? What if Naruto used clones? Not going to go into hypotheticals because those always lead to melt down's and angry fans, but you see my point right?

KidGamer really broke out the post in detail so let me see if I can find it. What he said which truly spoke the truth was this: "The moment Kishimoto had to give Sasuke another power-up, it ended their equal status immediately"

Styles · Feb 25, 2015

Di Raizel said:
That's exactly where he admitted his inferiority in battle prowess. RSM Naruto was already a tier above Rinnegan Sasuke at that point.

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Sasuke:

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The only real time Rinnegan Sasuke's PS hit Kaguya was when Naruto canonically blitzed her arm off, which in turn Sasuke comes in for the strike and she tries to tackle a PS with a single arm. Doesn't end well for her.

Naruto's RSM feats alone surpass what we have seen from Sasuke at this point in time, and that gap of power had to be equaled out with another source of power. Perfect Susano'o alone was handing Naruto's avatar, but for how long? What if Naruto used clones? Not going to go into hypotheticals because those always lead to melt down's and angry fans, but you see my point right?

KidGamer really broke out the post in detail so let me see if I can find it. What he said which truly spoke the truth was this: "The moment Kishimoto had to give Sasuke another power-up, it ended their equal status immediately"

That was a TSB to block/counter kaguya unless you're going to say his chakra arms have a big ball on it.

They both got a power up though whether you like it or not Kishimoto showed it clearly.

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

xTsuna said:
That was a TSB to block/counter kaguya unless you're going to say his chakra arms have a big ball on it.

They both got a power up though whether you like it or not Kishimoto showed it clearly.

That TSB ball was as much as his power, as Sasuke's PP was to him. Nothing really changes this argument here, and that is not my only scan on Naruto's part. In fact, I have quite a lot. Shall I bring them to the table?

No see here is where you are mistaken. Sasuke had to take in the Bijuu chakra to increase his own strength to the point of creating a pseudo-Gendo Manzou Susano'o. Naruto was canonically standing his ground, until then Sasuke noted that Naruto ran out of Bijuu chakra, so he could not create any more BijuuDama. It was at that point where Naruto began to fuse the Ashura Avatar, and then Kurama begins to take in the natural energy to create the final attack while Sasuke is prepping IndraArrow.

None of which Naruto gained suddenly. Naruto has combined Natural energy/Sage Mode with his forms since the beginning of his Kyuubi Chakra Mastery.

lndra · Feb 25, 2015

xTsuna said:
That was a TSB to block/counter kaguya unless you're going to say his chakra arms have a big ball on it.

They both got a power up though whether you like it or not Kishimoto showed it clearly.

KidGamer65 said:
PS>Rinnegan.

Rinnegan Sasuke=Half Kurama Rikudo Senjutsu Naruto

Full Kurama Naruto=2x stronger than Half Kurama Naruto, thus he is 2x stronger than Sasuke. Stomp in Naruto's favor, not even taking into account the fact that Naruto can take in extra Nature Energy...and it seems that Sasuke doesn't have the Bijuu.

KidGamer65 said:
Full Kurama BSM Naruto=Half Kurama BSM Naruto x2. Minato has separate techs that Naruto doesn't have.

Full Kurama RSM Naruto=/=Full Kurama BSM Naruto. BSM Naruto only has Sage Mode and Kurama's power boosting him. RSM Naruto has Rikudo's Sage Mode boosting him, thus his Avatar is stronger. Much stronger than before.

Full Kurama RSM Naruto>>>>>>>>>>>Full Kurama BSM Naruto>>Half Kurama BSM Naruto.

Current Naruto has Rikudo's Sage Mode buffing him, so he isn't "VoTE 2 Naruto+BM Minato". Once he gets the other half of Kurama, instead of fighting with a 50% Kurama on steroids, he is fighting with a 100% Kurama on those same steroids. Thus a 2x boost in power.

Naruto stomps.

:|
/10char

Styles · Feb 25, 2015

Di Raizel said:
That TSB ball was as much as his power, as Sasuke's PP was to him. Nothing really changes this argument here, and that is not my only scan on Naruto's part. In fact, I have quite a lot. Shall I bring them to the table?

No see here is where you are mistaken. Sasuke had to take in the Bijuu chakra to increase his own strength to the point of creating a pseudo-Gendo Manzou Susano'o. Naruto was canonically standing his ground, until then Sasuke noted that Naruto ran out of Bijuu chakra, so he could not create any more BijuuDama. It was at that point where Naruto began to fuse the Ashura Avatar, and then Kurama begins to take in the natural energy to create the final attack while Sasuke is prepping IndraArrow.

None of which Naruto gained suddenly. Naruto has combined Natural energy/Sage Mode with his forms since the beginning of his Kyuubi Chakra Mastery.

I Never said it wasn't his power TSB have great defensive power made for stuff like that
Sasuke and Naruto had a stalemate the whole fight he took Bijuu chakra and got the edge still beating Naruto clones till he fused them and took in NE and the still had a stalemate. But like I said I can't change people's opinions on who is stronger but I'll go with how Kishimoto and the manga shows em.

lndra said:
:|
/10char

Manga and Kishimoto >> KG.

Narutohokage324 · Feb 25, 2015

xTsuna said:
I Never said it wasn't his power TSB have great defensive power made for stuff like that
Sasuke and Naruto had a stalemate the whole fight he took Bijuu chakra and got the edge still beating Naruto clones till he fused them and took in NE and the still had a stalemate. But like I said I can't change people's opinions on who is stronger but I'll go with how Kishimoto and the manga shows em.

Manga and Kishimoto >> KG.

The problem with what you are stating is that you seem to forget who actually got the power-up here. Sasuke obtained Bijuu Chakra, Naruto did not gain anything he didn't already have. He fused two Avatar's to increase it's strength, and Kurama gathered natural energy. Sasuke in no way, shape, or form is going to combat that level of power with his normal Perfect Susano'o alone. Hence why Kishimoto gave him the Bijuu chakra in the first place, because undoubtedly, Naruto was already stronger that point.

Sasuke in canon was being countered by Naruto who wasn't going on the offensive.[