Elemental advantage?

Gatsuuga

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So I made a thread recently about whether kirin had the raw power to break chibaku tensei. In it a few people stated that kirin would win since it has the elemental advantage. But that got me thinking does the advantage apply?

Now most people know that all chakra affinities have another that beats it and one that it beats.
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But in these cases the elemental advantage/ disadvantage refers to when a jutsu clashes. Now elemental jutsu's entail the moulding and defining of one's chakra into an innate type of chakra nature, altering its properties and characteristics. But does that apply to objects that have no elemental chakra moulded into them?

Here are some examples I have seen people use (Note I do not think that either have anything to do with an earth affinity or earth element chakra manipulation) -

1. The chibaku tensei example - The technique itself is not earth element. As a side affect of the gravitational forces the jutsu collects various pieces of rock and rubble. No elemental chakra is moulded into the rocks what so ever.
2. Gaara's Sand - Contrary to popular belief Gaara actually has wind affinity chakra. When he uses his sand it is generally thought that he only moulds normal chakra into it, without any nature manipulation. Obviously it could be argued that sand is small bits of earth, but the point is no earth element chakra (or supposedly and element) is applied when manipulating his sand.
These are two examples of jutsu that potentially have some earth component to them (or though it is arguable) , yet neither these 'earth' components arise from or consist of any earth element chakra manipulation. Therefore if an opponent happened to create a lightning jutsu made from lightening chakra manipulation does the elemental advantage principle still stand, when it is going against something that has no chakra element to it?
 
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Gatsuuga

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I don't think Chibaku Tensei is earth, it is raw force that use earth pieces, he can also use wood, houses..etc.
Thats what I mean, obviously there is earth elements since there is big chunks of earth being sucked into it, but absolutely no part of the jutsu has any association with earth element chakra manipulation. Therefore does a jutsu made from lightning element transformation still have an advantage?
 

Shika88

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I don't think Chibaku Tensei is Earth nature. Just as Susanoo has no elemental nature either.

But about Gaara's sand I'm not that sure. I think it is a Kekkei Genkai, even it wasn't mentioned that way. The combination of Wind and Earth.

Reasons:
-It obviously can't be copied.
-Chidori pierced it. (Wind-disadvantage; Earth-advantage) It's basicly like nothing.
 

Gatsuuga

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Hey guys, I fixed my OP up a bit. It wasn't clear at the time but I didn't mean that chibaku tensei or gaara's sand was earth natured at all. These example are just ones that I have seen people confused about. I picked them because they both have bits of earth (boulders for chibaku tensei and sand for Gaara) but in no way do these tecniques have any earth element chakra nature associated with it. The main point was to ask whether say a lightning style jutsu (created from lightning element chakra manipulation) could break say a rock (which has no elemental chakra nature association), because the lightning element jutsu still has a elemental advantage. Or alternatively does this rule only apply when 2 elemental jutsu's clash
 

skoraxascended

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Hey guys, I fixed my OP up a bit. It wasn't clear at the time but I didn't mean that chibaku tensei or gaara's sand was earth natured at all. These example are just ones that I have seen people confused about. I picked them because they both have bits of earth (boulders for chibaku tensei and sand for Gaara) but in no way do these tecniques have any earth element chakra nature associated with it. The main point was to ask whether say a lightning style jutsu (created from lightning element chakra manipulation) could break say a rock (which has no elemental chakra nature association), because the lightning element jutsu still has a elemental advantage. Or alternatively does this rule only apply when 2 elemental jutsu's clash
I reserve judgement on it breaking stone until I see it (not chakra based)
 

Gatsuuga

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I reserve judgement on it breaking stone until I see it (not chakra based)
I could understand it piercing stone, solely on lightnings piercing ability, but that has nothing to do with the elemental advantage, more the characteristic of lightning based jutsu (just thinking aloud haha).

There are other examples I guess but not as good. Say if there was a lightning bolt coming towards you could you use a wind jutsu to blow it away (this is just and example)? The lightning has no chakra based element to it so would the wind jutsu still win via elemental advantage?
 

NLee

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Chibaku Tensei and Gaara's Sand are not Earth Release techniques.

Earth Release techniques are techniques involving the molding of Earth-natured chakra. Neither Chibaku Tensei nor Gaara's Sand entail this.

It really is that simple. Even if these two things involve rocks and earth itself, it does not have Earth-natured chakra. If it doesn't have that, then chakra specific weaknesses don't apply to them like they do to other ninjutsu techniques.
 
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Q of the Sharingan

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Chakra affinities are naturally strong and weak against certain others, that's true. It is possible that it is just the way that the affinities are created when molding chakra that gives rise to this balance of power. Garaa's sand uses earth and wind affinity chakra. Sasuke's chidori pierced through it with no elemental advantage because it turns your hand into "the sharpest blade." If his sand was just manipulated with wind chakra, then chidori would fail against it. Chibaku Tensie and Kirin use natural elements, so the weaknesses and strengths of CHAKRA affinities don't apply. If Chibaku Tensie was hit early enough, with not much debris around it, the force of the lightning bolt that is Kirin would most likely destroy it.
 
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