[Theory] Elder Son's eyes question

[ANiMUS]

Why hasn't anyone noticed that the Elder Son's eyes bear SM markings???

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Think about it! If the Elder Son's eyes were actually a senjutsu doujutsu everything would fit perfectly.

Sasuke having Juugo's cells
The Senjutsu susanoo
Senjutsu adept chakra
Sasuke having a unique sharingan

Sasuke attaining senju chakra could be a vice that'd make his chakra closer to the Sage without attaining the body

Everything fits Perfectly!!!

What do you think???

 

[Kyaun97]

I think madara developing the rinnegan from senju cells was just to prove the sage is a combination of uchiha and senju. I really think kishi is done with dojutsu but idk kishi does surprise us.

 

[adeshina365]

I've been a bit of an advocate for this. Situationally it makes sense and it would provide Sasuke with a unique power-up.

I can only hope that this is what Kishimoto has in store.

 

[Transcendence]

I posted something similar in regards to what Naruto and Sasuke will acquire when they come back...
​

@adeshina365

I have a couple of new sentiments regarding Naruto and Sasuke in the immediate future. I reaffirm my stance on Naruto's powers. Rikudou-esque cloak via the Bijuu's which will be Pseudo 10 tails Jin-like with the Rinnegan (I'll explain). As you yourself exclaimed, Sasuke will quite clearly be the one to take the front seat in the battle against Madara, as Obito was Naruto's parallel, Madara is Sasuke's. In this case, the Juubi will most likely become the true final villain, and the dichotomy of the savior (Rikudou) and destroyer (Juubi) would be replayed, this time by Naruto as Rikudou, with similar power (Similar body with the Pseudo 10 tails Cloak and the Rinnegan) and the Rinnegan needed to split up the Juubi thereafter (access to Yin-Yang release which is a gateway to Banbutsu Sozo).

I thought over the concept of Sasuke being similar to Kabuto and what he did with Juugo's cells, but this time on a larger scale, and the jutsu/chakra Hashirama gave to Sasuke could play a part in this whole thing. Sasuke already has his own dormant cells from Juugo via the life transfer tecnique when they battle Kirabi. This is a similar situation, but more dire. Sasuke will most likely gain MORE of Juugo's flesh and affinity for Sennin transformaion, but to control it, he would need the necessary requisites for it; in comes Hashirama's chakra. Said chakra is correlated to Senjutsu, as Hashirama's intention was to use the technique to bind Madara. Said chakra most likely will let Sasuke balance nature chakra and utilize Juugo's abilities by himself, indefinitely given the context of Juugo's clans abilities in relation to Sennin transformation. Furthermore, as I said to Robot in a previous thread of his, it's quite possible that the Elder Son had some kind of Sennin transformation, as he clearly has markings on his eyes indicative of such. This could be the key to changing the Eien No Mangekyou into the Elder Son's Dojutsu. As the Rinnegan is a balance of Yin and Yang, the ESD may be dominant Yin, with Senjutsu, which alters the eyes, transforming them, similar to how Sasuke's area around his eyes in the battle of the VOTE in Part 1 changed when he went in to Curse Mark V2.​

Naruto -> Rikudou intervention -> Bijuu's chakra coalesces -> New Bijuu cloak reminiscent of Rikudou even more so -> Rinnegan awakens and only useable in that mode (meaning when he uses that mode he can use the Rinnegan, but outside of it he can't)

Sasuke -> Mikoto and Fugaku intervention -> Juugo gives more cells to Sasuke to attempt to repair the wound -> it reacts to Hashirama's "jutsu" -> Giving Sasuke the same markings under the Elder Son's eyes -> Sasuke's awakens the ESD as his eyes change with the Senjutsu influencing it -> He now has the pinnacle of Yin power and his Susano'o is also "larger" than Madara's due to a higher Yin chakra output​

 

[ANiMUS]

I posted something similar in regards to what Naruto and Sasuke will acquire when they come back...
​

Naruto -> Rikudou intervention -> Bijuu's chakra coalesces -> New Bijuu cloak reminiscent of Rikudou even more so -> Rinnegan awakens and only useable in that mode (meaning when he uses that mode he can use the Rinnegan, but outside of it he can't)

Sasuke -> Mikoto and Fugaku intervention -> Juugo gives more cells to Sasuke to attempt to repair the wound -> it reacts to Hashirama's "jutsu" -> Giving Sasuke the same markings under the Elder Son's eyes -> Sasuke's awakens the ESD as his eyes change with the Senjutsu influencing it -> He now has the pinnacle of Yin power and his Susano'o is also "larger" than Madara's due to a higher Yin chakra output​

I agree with everything except the eyes. If Obito has taught me one thing its that being the juubi jin doesn't give you rinnengan.
The Uchiha doujutsu is genetic just like the Senju body. They can't be inherited through chakra. Its in the GENES.

I agree with everything else though

 

[Transcendence]

I agree with everything except the eyes. If Obito has taught me one thing its that being the juubi jin doesn't give you rinnengan.
The Uchiha doujutsu is genetic just like the Senju body. They can't be inherited through chakra. Its in the GENES.

I agree with everything else though

Obito couldn't have awakened it.

He already had one Rinnegan, and the Sharingan is an evolved version (down the evolutionary line of Dojutsu starting from the Rinnegan) of the Sharingan. It wouldn't devolve back into the Rinnegan. T'is the probable case of Rikudou, who had to to get it from the Juubi without error. It had to come from it, and Rikudou did not have a Sharingan. The probability is high for Naruto.​

 

[ANiMUS]

Obito couldn't have awakened it.

He already had one Rinnegan, and the Sharingan is an evolved version (down the evolutionary line of Dojutsu starting from the Rinnegan) of the Sharingan. It wouldn't devolve back into the Rinnegan. T'is the probable case of Rikudou, who had to to get it from the Juubi without error. It had to come from it, and Rikudou did not have a Sharingan. The probability is high for Naruto.​

The fruit came from the Juubi
Kaguya ate the fruit giving her the Juubi's chakra.
She gave birth to a child with body and eyes completely adept to the ten tails energy. The height of both clans Hagoromo
From the birth of his children his blood line divided, and then thinned into what we have today. If there is a doujutsu to be gained from becoming the juubi jin it would Madara to awaken it. For his eyes are at the same lvl as the sage and fit for the next stage of progression

 

[Transcendence]

The fruit came from the Juubi
Kaguya ate the fruit giving her the Juubi's chakra.
She gave birth to a child with body and eyes completely adept to the ten tails energy. The height of both clans Hagoromo
From the birth of his children his blood line divided, and then thinned into what we have today. If there is a doujutsu to be gained from becoming the juubi jin it would Madara to awaken it. For his eyes are at the same lvl as the sage and fit for the next stage of progression

Not exactly...

Kaguya ate the fruit and thus, gained the Juubi's powers. Her son, Hagoromo inherited her abilities and was known as the "Sage of the Six Paths" which is a moniker to his life as a monk and the Rinnegan's Six Paths. His inheritance from his mother comes straight from the Juubi's chakra in its entirety. But this only has an effect on people who don't have existing Dojutsu down the line (Hagoromo not having a Sharingan, same with Naruto etc.). Madara gaining the Rinnegan is due to the dichotomy of the two sons. The split between Hagoromo's powers is way too exact, meaning, it is extremely likely he created his sons with Banbutsu Sozo, rather than a natural birth, and fully knowing his powers are from the Juubi entirely, they are basically half of the Juubi's powers each; The Yin (Sharingan) and Yang (Mokuton). Them coming together in one body mirrors the Juubi's Yin and Yang being regulated in one body like it did in Rikudou; the Rinnegan. In Naruto's case, he'd be mirroring what would happen if one were to gain the Juubi's essence and how Hagoromo inherited his mothers power. The coalescence of the Bijuu's chakra would be the same as the Juubi's effect on Kaguya/Hagoromo and would give Naruto relatively the same abilities; the Rinnegan and a similar appearance to both of them (elongated horned hair and looking like Rikudou's silhouette). ​

 

[ANiMUS]

Not exactly...

Kaguya ate the fruit and thus, gained the Juubi's powers. Her son, Hagoromo inherited her abilities and was known as the "Sage of the Six Paths" which is a moniker to his life as a monk and the Rinnegan's Six Paths. His inheritance from his mother comes straight from the Juubi's chakra in its entirety. But this only has an effect on people who don't have existing Dojutsu down the line (Hagoromo not having a Sharingan, same with Naruto etc.). Madara gaining the Rinnegan is due to the dichotomy of the two sons. The split between Hagoromo's powers is way too exact, meaning, it is extremely likely he created his sons with Banbutsu Sozo, rather than a natural birth, and fully knowing his powers are from the Juubi entirely, they are basically half of the Juubi's powers each; The Yin (Sharingan) and Yang (Mokuton). Them coming together in one body mirrors the Juubi's Yin and Yang being regulated in one body like it did in Rikudou; the Rinnegan. In Naruto's case, he'd be mirroring what would happen if one were to gain the Juubi's essence and how Hagoromo inherited his mothers power. The coalescence of the Bijuu's chakra would be the same as the Juubi's effect on Kaguya/Hagoromo and would give Naruto relatively the same abilities; the Rinnegan and a similar appearance to both of them (elongated horned hair and looking like Rikudou's silhouette). ​

Scan proving Kaguya had the Rinnengan???

 

[Transcendence]

Scan proving Kaguya had the Rinnengan???

Not what I was getting at.

In one way or another, Rikudou had to get the Rinnegan via the Juubi's chakra. Either from his mother, who had the Juubi's chakra, or from being the Jin, but he was known as the Sage of the Six Paths prior to the battle [

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][

You must be registered for see links

]. Also, notice in the scans I just posted, Kaguya had the horns that Rikudou also fashioned, which is a by-product of having the Juubi's chakra. It's not a forgone conclusion that she had the Rinnegan, but it is a high possibility given that Rikudou inherited his power from her, and gained his moniker as the Sage of the Six Paths, prior to the battle.
​

 

[Mr Hiru]

Why hasn't anyone noticed that the Elder Son's eyes bear SM markings???

You must be registered for see links

Think about it! If the Elder Son's eyes were actually a senjutsu doujutsu everything would fit perfectly.

Sasuke having Juugo's cells
The Senjutsu susanoo
Senjutsu adept chakra
Sasuke having a unique sharingan

Sasuke attaining senju chakra could be a vice that'd make his chakra closer to the Sage without attaining the body

Everything fits Perfectly!!!

What do you think???

That makes a lot of sense. This is more beliable than him attaining the Rinnegan.

 

[ANiMUS]

Not what I was getting at.

In one way or another, Rikudou had to get the Rinnegan via the Juubi's chakra. Either from his mother, who had the Juubi's chakra, or from being the Jin, but he was known as the Sage of the Six Paths prior to the battle [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Also, notice in the scans I just posted, Kaguya had the horns that Rikudou also fashioned, which is a by-product of having the Juubi's chakra. It's not a forgone conclusion that she had the Rinnegan, but it is a high possibility given that Rikudou inherited his power from her, and gained his moniker as the Sage of the Six Paths, prior to the battle.
​

My point was
1. You can have the chakra without the eyes (Naruto=bm)
2. Kaguya could give birth to a child with powers that she did not have via her powers from the juubi (Naruto/kushina)

I won't say your theory isn't possible, but I don't find it likely.

 

[ANiMUS]

That makes a lot of sense. This is more beliable than him attaining the Rinnegan.

Yeah, I know and if you think about it no doujutsu has the ability to see NE, even the Rinnengan. This could be something exclusive to the elder son's doujutsu. Plus, I doubt Orochimaru's curiosity would be peaked by something already proven

 

[Transcendence]

My point was
1. You can have the chakra without the eyes (Naruto=bm)
2. Kaguya could give birth to a child with powers that she did not have via her powers from the juubi (Naruto/kushina)

I won't say your theory isn't possible, but I don't find it likely.

1. Half Kurama doesn't equate to the Juubi's overall essence, so that's a moot point.
2. Different circumstances. The scan I posted confirmed that. Kaguya was the first to use chakra (and had the horns courtesy of the Juubi). Hagoromo was the first born with chakra, therefore passing on her abilities to Hagoromo (and as we see, he also had the horns from the Juubi).
​

 

[Mr Hiru]

Yeah, I know and if you think about it no doujutsu has the ability to see NE, even the Rinnengan. This could be something exclusive to the elder son's doujutsu. Plus, I doubt Orochimaru's curiosity would be peaked by something already proven

Also, it doesn't make sense so say that Sasuke will awake an eye that doesn't have Yin abilities. Sasuke have been all his life training Yin abilities, and clearly Rinnegan isn't used to perform genjutsu.

It's way too contradictory.

 

[ANiMUS]

1. Half Kurama doesn't equate to the Juubi's overall essence, so that's a moot point.
2. Different circumstances. The scan I posted confirmed that. Kaguya was the first to use chakra (and had the horns courtesy of the Juubi). Hagoromo was the first born with chakra, therefore passing on her abilities to Hagoromo (and as we see, he also had the horns from the Juubi).
​

The point of the first was to show that the kyuubi, undoubtedly the closest bijuu to the juubi has a jinchuuriki with horns just like the sage and his mother.
Hagaromo was the first to know about justu Thats a strike against you because that knowledge comes from the rinnengan. He was also the first to teach about chakra. Something you would need special eyes to understand completely.
The fact that Kaguya had horns only proves that the juubi's chakra resided within her. Nothing points to her having rinnengan.

Also, it doesn't make sense so say that Sasuke will awake an eye that doesn't have Yin abilities. Sasuke have been all his life training Yin abilities, and clearly Rinnegan isn't used to perform genjutsu.

It's way too contradictory.

Actually, with Rinnengan comes knowledge of its techniques

 

[Transcendence]

The point of the first was to show that the kyuubi, undoubtedly the closest bijuu to the juubi has a jinchuuriki with horns just like the sage and his mother.
Hagaromo was the first to know about justu Thats a strike against you because that knowledge comes from the rinnengan. He was also the first to teach about chakra. Something you would need special eyes to understand completely.
The fact that Kaguya had horns only proves that the juubi's chakra resided within her. Nothing points to her having rinnengan.

Actually, with Rinnengan comes knowledge of its techniques

That has to do more with Kurama's composition in relation to the Juubi, rather than his effect on Naruto. The closer you are to the Juubi chakra wise, the more of an effect it has on a host. Yang Kurama gives Naruto horns and a silhouette similar to Rikudou. Full Kurama would be a tad closer to Rikudou. These are all similar effects to what the Juubi's chakra (or the coalesced 9 Bijuu's) would do to someone.

I digress on the Kaguya point. To use something, you must understand it. We don't know if she had the Rinnegan or not, but Rikudou did, and it came from the Juubi for sure, so it is more likely she did, rather than not.

Regardless, we'll see what happens in the coming chapters regarding this.​

 

[ANiMUS]

That has to do more with Kurama's composition in relation to the Juubi, rather than his effect on Naruto. The closer you are to the Juubi chakra wise, the more of an effect it has on a host. Yang Kurama gives Naruto horns and a silhouette similar to Rikudou. Full Kurama would be a tad closer to Rikudou. These are all similar effects to what the Juubi's chakra (or the coalesced 9 Bijuu's) would do to someone.

I digress on the Kaguya point. To use something, you must understand it. We don't know if she had the Rinnegan or not, but Rikudou did, and it came from the Juubi for sure, so it is more likely she did, rather than not.

Regardless, we'll see what happens in the coming chapters regarding this.​

Well, yeah we'll definitely see in coming chapters

 

[Mr Hiru]

Actually, with Rinnengan comes knowledge of its techniques

Exactly, not the other way around.

Really, it surprised me a lot when Pain fell into Jirayia's genjutsu.

The Yin Yang Release's Creation of All Thing is a jutsu that was subdivided in other categories, Genjutsu and Ninjutsu were born from that technique, practically.

The thing is, the Six Paths of Pain never used any genjutsu technique. As much they used summoning, and that's all.

 

[ANiMUS]

Exactly, not the other way around.

Really, it surprised me a lot when Pain fell into Jirayia's genjutsu.

The Yin Yang Release's Creation of All Thing is a jutsu that was subdivided in other categories, Genjutsu and Ninjutsu were born from that technique, practically.

The thing is, the Six Paths of Pain never used any genjutsu technique. As much they used summoning, and that's all.

I think Creation of all things is the one jutsu that is not gained from the rinnengan, since its the strongest its secrets are kept hidden on the Uchiha tablet. Thats how Maddy learned it any way

(Gets really frustrated at the possibility of a NON-Uchiha being the first to fully decipher the Uchiha tablet) THATS JUST WRONG!