Eight Gates vs Gentle Fist? Chakra Pathway System complexities and questions

Jobrjo

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,063
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
You must be registered for see images

Below are an explanation of the 3 terms in discussion. They would be good to read if you wish to discuss this topic.


Chakra Pathway System (経絡系, Keirakukei; English TV "Chakra Network"; Literally meaning "Meridian System") is the term for the channels within the body that transfer and channel chakra. Simply put they serve the same function for chakra as blood vessels do for blood. Along the chakra pathways, there 361 nodes called tenketsu that control the flow of chakra like circuit breakers, and within those tenketsu are Eight Gates which control body function and strain levels.


The Eight Gates are eight specific points on a person's Chakra Pathway System. They limit the overall flow of chakra within a person's body. The basis for the idea of the chakra gates comes from the body's limits on the functions within it. This makes the body much weaker, but it keeps the body from expiring too soon. By undergoing intense training, one can learn how to open these gates allowing the user to surpass their own physical limits at the cost of extreme damage to their own body.

The state of having all Eight Gates open is known as "Eight Gates Released Formation" (八門遁甲の陣, Hachimon Tonkō no Jin; English TV "Eight Inner Gates Formation"). Any shinobi who activates this state will temporarily gain powers greater than a Kage, but they will die because of the damage done to their body. Due to the immense amount of chakra flooding the body all at once, drastic changes can occur upon the user's body. The most common of these changes are the darkening of the skin, eruption of veins around the temples, the eyes turning completely white. The green aura surrounding the user could be easily mistaken as chakra as in Kisame's case when fighting Guy. Guy corrected this misconception explaining that the green substance surrounding him is his sweat evaporating at a rapid rate, due to the intense rise in body temperature of the user.[5]


The Gentle Fist (柔拳, Jūken) or Gentle Fist Art (柔拳法, Jūkenpō) is a form of hand-to-hand combat used by members of the Hyūga clan. It inflicts internal damage through attacking the body's Chakra Pathway System, subsequently injuring organs which are closely intertwined with the area of the network which has been struck. To do this, the user surgically injects a certain amount of their own chakra into the opponent's chakra pathway system, causing damage to surrounding organs due to their proximity to the chakra circulatory system. Even the slightest tap can cause severe internal damage, hence the name "gentle" fist.

Targeting the tenketsu can enhance the havoc and control a Gentle Fist practitioner can impose upon an opponent's chakra network. These special nodes, 361 in total, are key gatekeeping interceptions in the chakra circulatory network, thus forcibly opening or sealing them in whatever manner the Gentle Fist user sees fit is a powerful tactical option to have. The user's chakra can either increase chakra flow in the opponent's body, or disrupt it completely, preventing them from using techniques as seen in Neji's fight with Hinata during the Chūnin Exams.

Neji Hyūga remarked that any chakra-based substance can be destroyed by this technique. As seen in his fight with Kidōmaru, it is done by leaking chakra from the chakra openings in one's hands and moulding it into a needle-like shape to slice through the chakra. However it is unknown if this technique can be done by any Gentle Fist user or just those who can see the tenketsu.

Given the following statements, I have some questions for you Narutobase (I have my own opinions but are curios of yours).
1. Can someone who has been shut down via Gentle Fist still activate the Eight Gates?
2. If someone is already using the Eight Gates, what will happen if they are attacked with the Gentle Fist?
3. Can a skilled Gentle Fist user save the life of one who opens the 8th Gate by inserting chakra back into their network system and turning on their tenketsu?

PS: I'll be +/- reputation-ing people based on their responses ^_^
 
Last edited:

TheEvilOne

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
14,251
Kin
7💸
Kumi
2,500💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
There is no gentle fist user in this manga who can compete with someone who can open the eight inner gates.
But to answer your questions:

1. If the gentle fist user could block all the 361 points in the gate user's body than no.
2. Nothing, unless the gentle fist user can shut down all of the gate user's tenketsu points. ( or at least the main points )
3. I don't think so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jobrjo

paratise

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
16,197
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
1. Can someone who has been shut down via Gentle Fist still activate the Eight Gates?
Naruto used an "outer" source (kyuubi) to open all tenketsu, gates are among the pool of the user.
2. If someone is already using the Eight Gates, what will happen if they are attacked with the Gentle Fist?
It is unlikely if they ever got striked by a gentle fist user at that state of speed and power.
Even if they did have a single lucky hit, they can't complete all 64 palms thus can't block all tenketsu.
3. Can a skilled Gentle Fist user save the life of one who opens the 8th Gate by inserting chakra back into their network system and turning on their tenketsu?
8 gates have physical effects and restrains, thus wounds; really heavy woulds that make someone die short after.
It is not related to chakra exhaustion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jobrjo

Touken

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,499
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
1. Don't think so.
2. They'll probably remain unaffected. Once you're in Gates, your chakra points overflow and so any damage done by the Gentle Fist would be rendered useless because there'd be other chakra points that'd still be working and they would make the damaged chakra points reflow with chakra. That's my take on it. A Gentle Fist user would have to hit all the chakra points all at once to completely stop the flow of chakra when a person is in Gates.
3. No, activating the 8th Gate would result in the body turning to pieces.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jobrjo

Draegod

Active member
Elite
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
7,432
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
There is no gentle fist user in this manga who can compete with someone who can open the eight inner gates.
But to answer your questions:

1. If the gentle fist user could block all the 361 points in the gate user's body than no.
2. Nothing, unless the gentle fist user can shut down all of the gate user's tenketsu points. ( or at least the main points )
3. I don't think so.

lmmfao hahahahahahahahah This clown thinks she knows about the Hyugas and Gate Users because she is owned by them in debates! I cant stop laughing!!!!! Why even comment on something you know nothing about???????????????

OT: One touch will cancel or kill a Gate User if a hyuga injects them. Why? Because their Chakra is out of "Wack" and unleashed when the gates are opened. So by Closing a Point in the chakra path way, the Gates would then have to find another outlet or path way to escape from, and as seen in a previous fight (Wont say which, only 2 users probably know what i mean) it will implode out of the users body. The Problem with that strategy, would be to hit a gate user. haha

And btw, If you need manga pages just ask, wiki is only a small summary with no manga to display what it means.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jobrjo

Umari Senju

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
12,560
Kin
234💸
Kumi
93💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
1.) No since their Tenketsuhave been shut down. There is no way for the Hachimon to be opened as you need to apply chakra to open the gates. Can't open something you can't even access due to Tenketsu blockage.

2.) Provided that the Juuken (Gentle Fist) is actually able to land a blow. Then Yes. Hachimon is the opening of said gates. You guys are underestimating the Juuken Style. Power isn't the only way to win. Especailly when we are talking about a fighting style that relies heavily on opening the Tenketsu for massive power verses a style that is based on shutting those very Tenketsu down. Basically if the Juuken user is able to knock the Hachimon user off balance and land say the 64 Trigams on the opponent, then those Tenketsu are shut and the overflow of chakra will need to find another outlet, most likely causing damage to another Tenketsu pathway.

3.) I am going to say no. Unless the Juuken user is a medical ninja then no. The damage is so great that the Tenketsu along with everything else is destroyed. Their is no repairing what is already destroyed without medical training. and even then medical training can only do so much. Perhaps the key to surviving this lies in the Byakugou. It's rapid cellular regeneration may at least keep the Hachimon user from dying, but that is a big if and there are only 2 people known to hav Byakugou so again, no.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jobrjo
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
302
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
1. No, as you would need to be able to mold your chakra flow in order to open gates.
2. I believe the Hyuuga clan would use stronger jutsu than gentle fist...also can one counter speed
3. Maybe, if the user is ready to give a whole network amount of chakra... i.e. Granny Chiyo of Sunagakure
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jobrjo

Jobrjo

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,063
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Thanks for the responses everyone! I wish I could response to all of you, but I don't have that sort of time xD My personal opinions:

EDIT: SORRY FOR THE LONG TEXT! I TYPED IT ALL ON THE SPUR OF THE MOMENT... IT IS AN ENTERTAINING AND INFORMING READ, GIVE IT A CHANCE! I MAY RE-CREATE THIS THREAD WITH IT IN THE OP...

1) Yes. Just look at Naruto. He was blocked off all around, and yet, the sheer power of the 9-tales was capable of re-awakening the tenketsu. This tells us that the tenketsu aren't broken/damaged/etc, they are just turned off, and that, besides time/rest/healing, it would be possible to forcibly turn it on via a super charge of powerful chakra, e.g. 9-tails.
Gentle Fist seems almost like a short circuit that turns off the Chakra Pathway System temporarily. And the power can come back by waiting it out, or manually "fixing" it via a powerful 2nd party chakra source. And it mentioned that Naruto could only do it because it was an outside Chakra (Kurama not Naruto)- but frankly it makes no diference. "Kurama's" chakra was still flowing through Naruto's Chakra Pathway System. Gentle Fist targets the system itself (the tenketsu) not the chakra flowing through it. The fact that Naruto could still use chakra was due to the 9-tails "turning on" his Chakra Pathway System, by filling it with it's own powerful chakra.
And as the gates certainly dwarf a small portion of Kurama's chakra that Naruto used there, it would be more than enough, I believe, to re-open the Chakra Pathway System, allowing one to open the gates still.

2) The 8 gates are located "within" the tenketsu, whatever that means. The answer to this question depends simply on whether or not the gates are tenketsu themselves, or if they are other parts of the Chakra Pathway System. I believe it to be the second, as I don't think it would be part of 8 specific tenketsu unless specifically stated to be so. That also makes sense as the gates are literally gatways- they don't hold the chakra themselves, they limit how much can flow through. By going to Gate modes, you "widen" the gates by allowing more chakra to flow through them- that chakra however still comes from you not from the gates. It's almost like a highway- the cars are the chakra, the road the gates. The more lanes available the more cars that can flow through. However, the road itself is not a car- rather it limits how many cars can go through. The gates aren't chakra themselves, they just limit how much chakra can be used at once.
So, under that assumption, by shutting down the tenketsu via Gentle Fist you aren't turning off the gates themselves, but you prevent chakra from reaching it. Back to the car example, you are causing "traffic jams" earlier on, maybe even before the highway, that prevents the cars from getting on the multi-lane road at all. In essence, Gentle Fist causes "chakra accidents" (instead of car accidents), which prevent the chakra from flowing free on the "highway" (the 8 widened/opened gates ). {However, to help support my point 1, if you see an "accident" and come by with a "tank", you could move the cars / blow them up / roll over them and get access to the highway once more. I believe the 9tails was like a tank and Nejis Gentle Fist a "chakra accident" in Naruto road system. The 8 Gates would also be a tank, just a different type (in this case a stronger), and still more then adequate to blow by the blockage. The other alternative woul be to wait for the body to heal the Chakra Pathway System, similar to the people/police working out a major car accident. However, you can't do that in the middle of busy hours / a fight without shutting down the road / Chakra Pathway.}
Now what does all of this mean? It would mean that while a victim of Gentle Fist, you can still open the gates- however, you will not get the benefits, or at least not nearly as much, simply because the chakra cannot get to the gates in enough quantity to "fill up all the lanes". So yes, Guy can go 7th gate, but it would only be ever so much above his normal state because there isn't enough chakra to go through the opened chakra gates.

3) No, this wouldn't be possible. Chakra Pathway System damage was never hinted to or spoken of in relation to using the gates. The only damage was physical damage dealt to the user due to the power they have access to which their muscles/bones/organs/etc shouldn't be operating at. Going into 8th, or even 7th, 6th, 5th, and 4th gates only cause physical damage because the bodily faculties are being but into overcharge. So if Guy etc. were to go into the 8th gate, he would still die because his body would be destroyed from the gates use, even though his Chakra Pathway System would still be functional. Sadly, a simple inserting of chakra into the system won't change anything, because that's simply not the problem.
In fact, if that were the problem, then the 8th gate wouldn't cause death- rather it would cause destruction to the Chakra pathway System and cause one to live a normal life instead of as a ninja, similar to being a victim of Rasenshuriken.
However... while a Hyuga couldn't fix the problem, I do believe that a skilled medic [team], someone with a special ability (Hidan, Tsudae, Saukra, Kakazu, Hashirama, Orochimaru, etc) that doesn't let them die, or one who simply used gates 1-7 excessively (as shown when Guy did this and because of such could recover much easier and quicker) should be able to use that 8th gate without death. People have certainly survived ridiculous scenarios in Naruto due to any one of those 3 reasons (e.g. Tsuande healing Choji and Neji after the Sauske Retrieval Arc, Hidan getting his head chopped off, and Kakashi perfecting his Lightning Blade usage by using it often so that his body is now adapted to letting him use it many times more than when he first did, which was only 2 compared to now is, like, limitless.
 

KingHashirama

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
27,280
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
As I said before, it depends on the user's skills. Taijutsu isn't something like ninjutsu over a techinque can simply over power the other in power..

gentle fist shuts it down , Gates can unlock it back, gentle fist can shut it down again.....

And this had everything to do with the thread.
 
Top