Eight Gates vs Gentle Fist? Chakra Pathway System complexities and questions-Answered

[Jobrjo]

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This thread is in response to one I posted earlier, which can be found

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I posed 3 questions to NarutoBase, and got some some exceptional, some good, and some pitiful answers. I had just decided to comment on the thread myself, and ended up basically writing an essay. However, I managed to, on the spot just writing on the spur, basically create a theory about the relation between the

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,

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, and the

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. I thought I'd post it in a whole thread for itself to get NB opinion on it's validity. Now while it is a longish read, it is an entertaining one and will fly by, leaving the read more educated about the topics. Please take a read and give me your opinion! And feel free to look at the original thread to see other people's answers to the 3 questions, but please only comment here.

The questions:
1. Can someone who has been shut down via Gentle Fist still activate the Eight Gates?
2. If someone is already using the Eight Gates, what will happen if they are attacked with the Gentle Fist?
3. Can a skilled Gentle Fist user save the life of one who opens the 8th Gate by inserting chakra back into their network system and turning on their tenketsu?

My answers/theories:
1.

Spoiler

Yes. Just look at Naruto. He was blocked off all around, and yet, the sheer power of the 9-tales was capable of re-awakening the tenketsu. This tells us that the tenketsu aren't broken/damaged/etc, they are just turned off, and that, besides time/rest/healing, it would be possible to forcibly turn it on via a super charge of powerful chakra, e.g. 9-tails.
Gentle Fist seems almost like a short circuit that turns off the Chakra Pathway System temporarily. And the power can come back by waiting it out, or manually "fixing" it via a powerful 2nd party chakra source. And it mentioned that Naruto could only do it because it was an outside Chakra (Kurama not Naruto)- but frankly it makes no diference. "Kurama's" chakra was still flowing through Naruto's Chakra Pathway System. Gentle Fist targets the system itself (the tenketsu) not the chakra flowing through it. The fact that Naruto could still use chakra was due to the 9-tails "turning on" his Chakra Pathway System, by filling it with it's own powerful chakra.
And as the gates certainly dwarf a small portion of Kurama's chakra that Naruto used there, it would be more than enough, I believe, to re-open the Chakra Pathway System, allowing one to open the gates still.

2.

Spoiler

The 8 gates are located "within" the tenketsu, whatever that means. The answer to this question depends simply on whether or not the gates are tenketsu themselves, or if they are other parts of the Chakra Pathway System. I believe it to be the second, as I don't think it would be part of 8 specific tenketsu unless specifically stated to be so. That also makes sense as the gates are literally gatways- they don't hold the chakra themselves, they limit how much can flow through. By going to Gate modes, you "widen" the gates by allowing more chakra to flow through them- that chakra however still comes from you not from the gates. It's almost like a highway- the cars are the chakra, the road the gates. The more lanes available the more cars that can flow through. However, the road itself is not a car- rather it limits how many cars can go through. The gates aren't chakra themselves, they just limit how much chakra can be used at once.
So, under that assumption, by shutting down the tenketsu via Gentle Fist you aren't turning off the gates themselves, but you prevent chakra from reaching it. Back to the car example, you are causing "traffic jams" earlier on, maybe even before the highway, that prevents the cars from getting on the multi-lane road at all. In essence, Gentle Fist causes "chakra accidents" (instead of car accidents), which prevent the chakra from flowing free on the "highway" (the 8 widened/opened gates ). {However, to help support my point 1, if you see an "accident" and come by with a "tank", you could move the cars / blow them up / roll over them and get access to the highway once more. I believe the 9tails was like a tank and Nejis Gentle Fist a "chakra accident" in Naruto road system. The 8 Gates would also be a tank, just a different type (in this case a stronger), and still more then adequate to blow by the blockage. The other alternative woul be to wait for the body to heal the Chakra Pathway System, similar to the people/police working out a major car accident. However, you can't do that in the middle of busy hours / a fight without shutting down the road / Chakra Pathway.}
Now what does all of this mean? It would mean that while a victim of Gentle Fist, you can still open the gates- however, you will not get the benefits, or at least not nearly as much, simply because the chakra cannot get to the gates in enough quantity to "fill up all the lanes". So yes, Guy can go 7th gate, but it would only be ever so much above his normal state because there isn't enough chakra to go through the opened chakra gates.

3.

Spoiler

No, this wouldn't be possible. Chakra Pathway System damage was never hinted to or spoken of in relation to using the gates. The only damage was physical damage dealt to the user due to the power they have access to which their muscles/bones/organs/etc shouldn't be operating at. Going into 8th, or even 7th, 6th, 5th, and 4th gates only cause physical damage because the bodily faculties are being but into overcharge. So if Guy etc. were to go into the 8th gate, he would still die because his body would be destroyed from the gates use, even though his Chakra Pathway System would still be functional. Sadly, a simple inserting of chakra into the system won't change anything, because that's simply not the problem.
In fact, if that were the problem, then the 8th gate wouldn't cause death- rather it would cause destruction to the Chakra pathway System and cause one to live a normal life instead of as a ninja, similar to being a victim of Rasenshuriken.
However... while a Hyuga couldn't fix the problem, I do believe that a skilled medic [team], someone with a special ability (Hidan, Tsudae, Saukra, Kakazu, Hashirama, Orochimaru, etc) that doesn't let them die, or one who simply used gates 1-7 excessively (as shown when Guy did this and because of such could recover much easier and quicker) should be able to use that 8th gate without death. People have certainly survived ridiculous scenarios in Naruto due to any one of those 3 reasons (e.g. Tsuande healing Choji and Neji after the Sauske Retrieval Arc, Hidan getting his head chopped off, and Kakashi perfecting his Lightning Blade usage by using it often so that his body is now adapted to letting him use it many times more than when he first did, which was only 2 compared to now is, like, twenty it seems.) so I see no reason why the same can't apply here. It should be possible to survive the 8th gate.

So, whatcha think ^_^ btw on my thread useful comments get +rep.

 

[Fair Warning]

Eight gates is probably too much to supress. I doubt anyone could block the chakra points

 

[Made in Heaven]

You neg rep people for posting things you deem stupid? That's kinda douchey don't ya think?

 

[Uchiha Sutona]

This is really awesome man, great work. Great read, and you have an interesting view on this.
BTW I condemn you for your grammar, most fools on the base have horrible grammar and it's an eye sore...

 

[Jobrjo]

This is really awesome man, great work. Great read, and you have an interesting view on this.
BTW I condemn you for your grammar, most fools on the base have horrible grammar and it's an eye sore...

O_O I'm usually on point with grammar. Sure enough I just typed this up on the moment but still... care to kindly point some out so I could fix such?

 

[3MESSIAH]

1.IMO no because one needs chakra points to activate the surpassing limit of muscle strength and speed
2.i dont think the gentle fist will stop the eight gates because the one who used eight gates already activated the gates with his chakra so if gentle fist deactivates chakra the effect of eight gates(which is based purely on physical muscle strength and speed) will not be stopped
3.i think not because user`s muscles and body are way too exhausted.....manipulating his chakra through his body wont change anything...


i wrote this before reading your points.now i`ll read your opinion

EDIT: i disagree with your first point but you do have a good point in your second answer.if gentle fist can manipulate chakra through the gates like that then it is possible to lessen the effect of the eight gates.

 

[Uchiha Sutona]

O_O I'm usually on point with grammar. Sure enough I just typed this up on the moment but still... care to kindly point some out so I could fix such?

Oh shit sorry man wrong word, did not mean to use condemn... commend is what I meant to type.

 

[Jobrjo]

Oh shit sorry man wrong word, did not mean to use condemn... commend is what I meant to type.

lol bro no problem, we've all done it xD I'm a writer, so I was gonna be a bit worried if my Grammar was off haha. Thanks for reading and commending ^_^

1.IMO no because one needs chakra points to activate the surpassing limit of muscle strength and speed
2.i dont think the gentle fist will stop the eight gates because the one who used eight gates already activated the gates with his chakra so if gentle fist deactivates chakra the effect of eight gates(which is based purely on physical muscle strength and speed) will not be stopped
3.i think not because user`s muscles and body are way too exhausted.....manipulating his chakra through his body wont change anything...


i wrote this before reading your points.now i`ll read your opinion

EDIT: i disagree with your first point but you do have a good point in your second answer.if gentle fist can manipulate chakra through the gates like that then it is possible to lessen the effect of the eight gates.

Alright, thanks for your opinion bro ^_^

 

[KingHashirama]

The Gates are basically chakra limit removers right? So they are part of the chakra system in the same manner the points are. So if the person was to hit someone in gates with the gentle fist, then that part of their body will still be cut off. Now it depends if the gentle fist is strong enough.

 

[Jobrjo]

The Gates are basically chakra limit removers right? So they are part of the chakra system in the same manner the points are. So if the person was to hit someone in gates with the gentle fist, then that part of their body will still be cut off. Now it depends if the gentle fist is strong enough.

My theory of the matter, as explained in the OP, is that the tenketsu create the chakra, while the gates are just that- gates to the chakra. Gentle Fist damages the tenketsu specifically shutting down the chakra. Now because of this, the gates can still be opened, but there'sn nothing to go through those gates. So one could still open the gates, just with little to no effect.

 

[Jobrjo]

Yeah I'm bumping this now, seems quite relevant with the recent chapters!

 

[Behemoth55]

1. Can someone who has been shut down via Gentle Fist still activate the Eight Gates?

No, I dont think so, because the Jūken is able to block the Keirakurai. In the case of the eight gates, the chakra isn't released all at once, but step by step.
I'm pretty sure Kurama could revise that effect on Naruto thanks to his healing abilities.

Anyway, good thread. :3

 

[To Whatever]

Gentle fist can stop 8 gates. They can not only block, they can control chakra flow and redirect it where they wish. IIRC

Didn't neji have a tech called 8 gated assault he used against kidomaru?

 

[Draegod]

1. Out side chakra source isn't your chakra, so of course it would be in effect since it wasn't touched or closed by Gental fist. Here is the most simple Example I can use that even a Kid would understand:
A pool has water being pump by a water Pump Machine (Water=chakra, Pool=Human),
The pool that has the water has been drain by a hurricane; thus making all the water leave the pool. While the water pump has been shut down by a tree falling on it (Pool/human= No chakra, Water pump/chakra= Cut off).

Now If i come along and add Water from Rain (Kyubi) to the pool to make it have Water(chakra) again, is that me making me have chakra or water again???? Common sense would say no since that was an out side source and NOT MY WATER/CHAKRA!

SO basically, no! You cannot reopen the points no matter what you do instantly unless chakra that was separate from you at the time floods you with new untouched chakra.

2. If a Gental fist user strikes a Gate user while any of the gates are open... Let me break it down simple again:

You have a Fire Truck Supplying multiple Water hose that connect like a tree, and at each point they connect is a brace that locks them together (Truck and water=Chakra, Water hose=Chakra path way system).
If a Car comes along and drives on top of a single hose that is pumping water what will happen? (car=Gental fist shutting down a point, water hose=Chakra pathway, Water in the hose=chakra)
The water would then be force to exit a different hose thus Doubling the water a particular hose could handle! That would equal an Implosion to occur! Similar to this:

Spoiler

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3. No! All 8 are opened thus Death is a sure thing. Anything related to the heart in that way would point to death!

 

[Jobrjo]

1. Can someone who has been shut down via Gentle Fist still activate the Eight Gates?

No, I dont think so, because the Jūken is able to block the Keirakurai. In the case of the eight gates, the chakra isn't released all at once, but step by step.
I'm pretty sure Kurama could revise that effect on Naruto thanks to his healing abilities.

Anyway, good thread. :3

Interesting, but I don't believe the gates hold chakra, but rather allow more to flow through. If that was the case, can't they still be opened, but to no affect?

Gentle fist can stop 8 gates. They can not only block, they can control chakra flow and redirect it where they wish. IIRC

Didn't neji have a tech called 8 gated assault he used against kidomaru?

Last Resort: Eight Gates Crumbling Attack only exists Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 2 lols.
btw please read my thread~

 

[Nebula]

I think that after gates are activated the chakra system can still be shut down if the gentle fist user uses enough power.
Although the gates user would clearly have advantages.
Being hit by the gentle fist would probably increase the self inflicted damage like someone up there said.
Cool thread.

 

[Jobrjo]

1. Out side chakra source isn't your chakra, so of course it would be in effect since it wasn't touched or closed by Gental fist. Here is the most simple Example I can use that even a Kid would understand:
A pool has water being pump by a water Pump Machine (Water=chakra, Pool=Human),
The pool that has the water has been drain by a hurricane; thus making all the water leave the pool. While the water pump has been shut down by a tree falling on it (Pool/human= No chakra, Water pump/chakra= Cut off).

Now If i come along and add Water from Rain (Kyubi) to the pool to make it have Water(chakra) again, is that me making me have chakra or water again???? Common sense would say no since that was an out side source and NOT MY WATER/CHAKRA!

SO basically, no! You cannot reopen the points no matter what you do instantly unless chakra that was separate from you at the time floods you with new untouched chakra.

2. If a Gental fist user strikes a Gate user while any of the gates are open... Let me break it down simple again:

You have a Fire Truck Supplying multiple Water hose that connect like a tree, and at each point they connect is a brace that locks them together (Truck and water=Chakra, Water hose=Chakra path way system).
If a Car comes along and drives on top of a single hose that is pumping water what will happen? (car=Gental fist shutting down a point, water hose=Chakra pathway, Water in the hose=chakra)
The water would then be force to exit a different hose thus Doubling the water a particular hose could handle! That would equal an Implosion to occur! Similar to this:

Spoiler

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3. No! All 8 are opened thus Death is a sure thing. Anything related to the heart in that way would point to death!

1. Interesting, but I have to disagree. Understand the difference between Tenketsu and the Eight Gates. Tenketsu actually release chakra themselves, while the 8Gates, according to my theory don't release any chakra themselves, they just allow more to go through the body than the body would itself- they are limit removers not chakra suppliers. However now that I think on it, that sorta defeats my own point, as I suppose if the tenketsu are shut down via Gentle Fist, then then opening the gates still won't proved enough chakra to break down the "traffic jam" caused by Gentle Fist.
However, you can't really classify the 9-tails chakra as "different chakra" in this sense. It doesn't really matter that it's different chakra, it's still flowing throuhg the same suppossedly shut down system. To use your example, it's the ninetails chakra wouldn't come from "rain", but still from the pump. Rather however, it would come much stronger and as a different type of wwater- but still through the same system.

2. Once again I'm not saying the gates produce chakra themselves, the tenketsu do that. The gates juts remove natural restraints to let move flow through. But if the tenketsu are damaged, then letting more flow through doesn't matter as there isn't more to flow through available. I thought I explained that in the OP...

3. Agreed, however do read what I said about other ways to survive it, which i do believe are possible indeed (with the 3rd one logically applying to Gai, though likely he's going to die anyway cause he's not a main character and therefore by Kishi's rules must be held back).

 

[Draegod]

1. Interesting, but I have to disagree. Understand the difference between Tenketsu and the Eight Gates. Tenketsu actually release chakra themselves, while the 8Gates, according to my theory don't release any chakra themselves, they just allow more to go through the body than the body would itself- they are limit removers not chakra suppliers. However now that I think on it, that sorta defeats my own point, as I suppose if the tenketsu are shut down via Gentle Fist, then then opening the gates still won't proved enough chakra to break down the "traffic jam" caused by Gentle Fist.
However, you can't really classify the 9-tails chakra as "different chakra" in this sense. It doesn't really matter that it's different chakra, it's still flowing throuhg the same suppossedly shut down system. To use your example, it's the ninetails chakra wouldn't come from "rain", but still from the pump. Rather however, it would come much stronger and as a different type of wwater- but still through the same system.

2. Once again I'm not saying the gates produce chakra themselves, the tenketsu do that. The gates juts remove natural restraints to let move flow through. But if the tenketsu are damaged, then letting more flow through doesn't matter as there isn't more to flow through available. I thought I explained that in the OP...

3. Agreed, however do read what I said about other ways to survive it, which i do believe are possible indeed (with the 3rd one logically applying to Gai, though likely he's going to die anyway cause he's not a main character and therefore by Kishi's rules must be held back).

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Gates are nothing but restriants, not extra chkra. And they are indeed conected to the inner coils which they still need to allow chakra to flow into.

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As seen and said here from Lee himself. These two images are fact and should show I am correct brother. You need chakra to open the gates. And remember the Gates are not separate chakra or added chakra, rather Dams that limit Water from rushing out at once. But if the water is limited all ready; removing the dam that limited the water would do nothing since the water has already been eliminated for the time being. But you seemed to agree with me while not agree with me in your response.

The

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and a stronger one at that. So it re-entering the body path way isn't far-fetched and makes sense.

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This will F' gates up in the sense; If i increase the amount that was suppose to go through I blow a limb off (since gates already push the limit). If I stop the pathway, it will have to find another out let. Or if it does somehow breaks through, all of the instant chakra would still cause major damage since it happened at once instantly! Thus Blowing a limb off still. Basically either way you get damaged severely.

 

[iSpyder]

Too Long; Didn't Read

Eight Gates too fast to be touched by Gentle Fist
/Thread

 

[Behemoth55]

Interesting, but I don't believe the gates hold chakra, but rather allow more to flow through. If that was the case, can't they still be opened, but to no affect?

The Hachimon are specific interchanges in the chakrasystem which adjust the flow of chakra in the body. If the Keirakurai are blocked, no chakra can flow through. The gates itself can't change that.