[VS] Edo Rinnegan Madara vs BM Naruto

[Blunt]

Why can't TBB be absorbed via Preta?

That's debatable, but do you really believe something of TBB's size is going to be absorbed, or rather, absorbed before it explodes?

 

[Apêx1]

That's debatable, but do you really believe something of TBB's size is going to be absorbed, or rather, absorbed before it explodes?

TBB won't explode if nothing is forcing it to explode. And even if it did explode, it's still pure chakra that's going to be absorbed by Preta.

 

[Blunt]

TBB won't explode if nothing is forcing it to explode. And even if it did explode, it's still pure chakra that's going to be absorbed by Preta.

I guess, as it doesn't have the ability to burst by mere thought like LRS. If that's the case, then yeah, TBB can be absorbed. Like you, I and a few already explained earlier, Madara is just a terrible matchup for Naruto, he literally counters any and all of Naruto's abilities via Six Paths techniques, and his PS is too durable to be busted by even a barrage of TBB.


Madara wins if both don't use avatars with low difficulty, and he wins with varying difficulty if they do, mid to high depending on Senjutsu enhancements.

 

[Apêx1]

I guess, as it doesn't have the ability to burst by mere thought like LRS. If that's the case, then yeah, TBB can be absorbed. Like you, I and a few already explained earlier, Madara is just a terrible matchup for Naruto, he literally counters any and all of Naruto's abilities via Six Paths techniques, and his PS is too durable to be busted by even a barrage of TBB.


Madara wins if both don't use avatars with low difficulty, and he wins with varying difficulty if they do, mid to high depending on Senjutsu enhancements.

What if this was 100% Kurama?

 

[Lord Tywin]

What if this was 100% Kurama?

nardo wins

 

[Apêx1]

nardo wins

How would he win if that was the case?

 

[Lord Tywin]

How would he win if that was the case?

Full Kurama>=PS in size
Full Kurama>=PS in DC
Full Kurama<PS in durability, but superior fire power makes up for that
add in senjutsu boost, and the fact that jins are stronger than the bijuu themselves, and the match goes to Naruto.

 

[Apêx1]

Full Kurama>=PS in size

PS is equal or larger then it.

Full Kurama>=PS in DC

Only if the PS allows the TBB's to be fired freely, not to mention Naruto will almost always be caught within the explosions. Preta can also negate some TBB's.

Full Kurama<PS in durability, but superior fire power makes up for that

Not if Naruto's firepower is working against himself as well.

add in senjutsu boost, and the fact that jins are stronger than the bijuu themselves, and the match goes to Naruto.

Still can't see how it'd allow him to win.

 

[Haizaki]

Naruto is not going to land multiple TBB, Madara will be on the assault, therefore he's being cleaved by Mountain level slashes in the entirety of the fight. Not to mention BD can be interrupted by a shockwave, or outright exploded on contact. It took the combined force of Chojo and 12 Bijudama to destroy his PS anyway, so a barrage is only doing moderate damage here at the very worst.

I'm not good with scalings but didn't Naruto's avatar block some PS slashes with its tails from what I recall? If he can block Madara then that shouldn't be a problem.

Kurama could at least release some BD's before SS could attack it...At some point of the fight it should be able to release BD's on Madara to the extent where it would eventually bypass its defense. Especially considering no intel which means Madara won't carelessly attack him which gives Naruto time to use his attacks.

A directed, focused ST is most certainly capable of repelling a BD used by Madara, he's on another level compared to Nagato.

Yes but what I'm saying exactly is if Madara is already using PS, he won't be able to use these techniques since he's already utilizing his full power. Switching from PS to this to repel is unlikely and even if he were to use this without PS, Naruto just uses his clones to distract him creating an opening for his attack.

Good point on Mokuryu, but that takes time.

Thanks..S/O Keef. Though Durk, Herb and Reese my favorites when it comes to Drill.

 

[Blunt]

What if this was 100% Kurama?

Naruto should win imo, as his TBB are on the same level as Kurama's, and he'd only need to land a few direct hits. His avatar is presumably twice as durable (already tanked Juubi laser with BM tails at 50%) so Madara's attacks are probably going to be shrugged off for the most part, especially with a Senjutsu boost.


The only way Madara wins in this scenario is if he can

A)interrupt TBB charge time with shockwaves or a focused ST

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, powered by Madara (which means multiple times stronger) and or burst a singular TBB from a barrage, which can cause a chain reaction and blow Naruto to shit.

B) IF he can utilize Six Path techniques with a clone, have one travel underground and use the aforementioned strategy with ST, then afterward wrap his avatar in Mokuryu while the avatar is pushed down, which absorbs his chakra, lowers his defense and allows a finisher to be set in place.


I see Naruto winning though, due to sheer durability and firepower. Though if my strategy applies, Madara should win. As it uses Naruto's firepower against himself.

 

[Lord Tywin]

PS is equal or larger then it.

Not if you count the tails

Only if the PS allows the TBB's to be fired freely, not to mention Naruto will almost always be caught within the explosions. Preta can also negate some TBB's.

Naruto can fire TBBs faster than Madara can swing his sword. The only reason Madara kept up with Kurama's TBB output is that he wasn't swinging his sword. Madara can't use Preta path with Susanoo

Not if Naruto's firepower is working against himself as well.

That's true, but with constant movement, and Naruto's superior mobility, Madara will have little luck busting TBBs.

Still can't see how it'd allow him to win.

Too lazy to explain, but I see Naruto winning mid diff.

 

[Blunt]

I'm not good with scalings but didn't Naruto's avatar block some PS slashes with its tails from what I recall? If he can block Madara then that shouldn't be a problem.

Not from what I remember, he blocked a Juubi laser, not so impressive if we look at it from this match and it's contenders, PS slash deals cutting damage, and has enough raw power to bust the top of 6 or more mountains in a singular swipe, it's not something you can simply tank after a few strikes, as they also travel many miles in a mere few second time frame, they would push the avatar into the dirt all while slicing through it.

Kurama could at least release some BD's

Yeah he could, but what i'm trying to say is, Madara already recognizes the power of a Biju, not to mention he won't sit idly as Naruto charges a threatening attack such as TBB, especially considering he can see chakra. He can literally bust the TBB before they even hit as i've already mentioned, or tank them, as at the end of all this, Naruto still needs to land more than 12, to actually deal extensive and unreturnable damage to PS.

at some point of the fight it should be able to release BD's on Madara to the extent where it would eventually bypass its defense. Especially considering no intel which means Madara won't carelessly attack him which gives Naruto time to use his attacks.

He's not carelessly attacking, he's simply dishing out necessary damage, it's careless not to attack, because if he doesn't, he dies one way or another to the TBB. I don't see how it's careless at all.

Yes but what I'm saying exactly is if Madara is already using PS, he won't be able to use these techniques since he's already utilizing his full power. Switching from PS to this to repel is unlikely and even if he were to use this without PS, Naruto just uses his clones to distract him creating an opening for his attack.

Well yeah, I get what you're saying. Switching out of PS, which utilizes his maximum chakra release would inevitably make things bad.

Thanks..S/O Keef. Though Durk, Herb and Reese my favorites when it comes to Drill.

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of Lil Herb, but I **** with Durk. Haven't listened to much of Reese's shit, any recommendations?

 

[TheSages456]

Naruto gets destroyed since none of his bijudama can damage PS.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Explain
Because There's no way bm Naruto wins

You want me to get straight to BM vs PS or do you want the whole song and dance.

Im going off of %50 Kurama btw. 100 would be too much depending on how you scale.

---

That size argument though. Pretty sure the top half and head of PS alone was larger than Kurama when he was armoring it onto him.

 

[ARGUS]

You want me to get straight to BM vs PS or do you want the whole song and dance.

Im going off of %50 Kurama btw. 100 would be too much depending on how you scale.

---

That size argument though. Pretty sure the top half and head of PS alone was larger than Kurama when he was armoring it onto him.

It's bound to get PS vs BM where Naruto gets manhandled
And Lol I know, lol PS towers over any kurama

What if this was 100% Kurama?

Assuming that the genjutsu hax is restricted, then 100% kyuubi wins

I'm not good with scalings but didn't Naruto's avatar block some PS slashes with its tails from what I recall? If he can block Madara then that shouldn't be a problem.

He tanked Sasukes PS slashes which is pathetic in comparison to madaras

Kurama could at least release some BD's before SS could attack it...At some point of the fight it should be able to release BD's on Madara to the extent where it would eventually bypass its defense.

Nope, full kuramas standard TBB was tanked with no damage by madaras PS.
Full kuramas average TBB are larger and thus stronger than madaras PS. Possibly twice the output of naruto a regular TBB

Naruto can throw 5 of them on a continuous Barrage and even if madaras Ps gets hits it's doing very little damage to his PS

His only chance is flash TBB but even then he needs to land at least 3 of them which isn't happening before madara smacks him down with a Ps slash that Naruto isn't tanking that easily. He is likely to lose one tail every time he attempts to block it

Especially considering no intel which means Madara won't carelessly attack him which gives Naruto time to use his attacks.

Naruto in canon was losing to edo Madara who didn't go all out
Even then, Narutos only hope is flash TBB and there is no way in hell Madara would just sit there and let that happen

 

[Blunt]

Ah, he was talking about downscaling Sasuke's PS from VoTE2. Though if Madara was given the same boost, it would laugh at Sasuke's, wasn't catching what he was saying at first. So the argument doesn't help Evani's case.

 

[Haizaki]

Agreed Madara wins.

 

[Apêx1]

Naruto should win imo, as his TBB are on the same level as Kurama's, and he'd only need to land a few direct hits. His avatar is presumably twice as durable (already tanked Juubi laser with BM tails at 50%) so Madara's attacks are probably going to be shrugged off for the most part, especially with a Senjutsu boost.

If you recall correctly, Madara's PS got destroyd by the combined explosion of his own TBB's and Hashirama's SS. It wasn't just the SS. And Naruto's durability=Sasuke's. Madara's>>>Both. 100% Kurama doesn't change that by much.

The only way Madara wins in this scenario is if he can

A)interrupt TBB charge time with shockwaves or a focused ST

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, powered by Madara (which means multiple times stronger) and or burst a singular TBB from a barrage, which can cause a chain reaction and blow Naruto to shit.

Yep. Mokuton deflecting it (without Mokujin) would also be a factor.

B) IF he can utilize Six Path techniques with a clone, have one travel underground and use the aforementioned strategy with ST, then afterward wrap his avatar in Mokuryu while the avatar is pushed down, which absorbs his chakra, lowers his defense and allows a finisher to be set in place.

It's almost certain that he can. There's absolutely no reason that would suggest he cannot do it, when he's already used EMS techniques with clones. He can simply have a clone near the diamond of his PS, and while he's throwing out shockwaves that clone is absorbing the chakra of the TBB's being used. Mokuryu is also a good strategy.

I see Naruto winning though, due to sheer durability and firepower. Though if my strategy applies, Madara should win. As it uses Naruto's firepower against himself.

Madara's durability is still greater though. His firepower is comparable if you think about it, Mokuton, PS shockwaves that are pretty much guaranteed hits (Naruto's TBB's are not due to the shockwave's intercepting and Preta) and Shinra Tensei's 20 times as strong as Nagato's in his prime.

 

[Zee U]

With 100% Kurama Naruto may actually win this in S2, but it's very high diff nonethless.

 

[Blunt]

If you recall correctly, Madara's PS got destroyd by the combined explosion of his own TBB's and Hashirama's SS. It wasn't just the SS. And Naruto's durability=Sasuke's. Madara's>>>Both. 100% Kurama doesn't change that by much.

I've already mentioned the bold like three times in this thread, I'm aware of that, and yeah, agreed on the rest.

Yep. Mokuton deflecting it (without Mokujin) would also be a factor.

Mokuton won't deflect it if he doesn't have Mokujin, as no other Mokuton techniques would grant said ability to do so, but my strategy does apply.

It's almost certain that he can. There's absolutely no reason that would suggest he cannot do it, when he's already used EMS techniques with clones. He can simply have a clone near the diamond of his PS,

Agreed, definitely viable here.

and while he's throwing out shockwaves that clone is absorbing the chakra of the TBB's being used. Mokuryu is also a good strategy.

Bold: It's good especially if the clone uses Mayfly to travel to Naruto, and as I stated use ST to slam the avatar ground level, than Mokuryu emerges and simply binds him. The clone camping on the diamond is also pretty smart, either way Madara is too versatile here.

Madara's durability is still greater though. His firepower is comparable if you think about it, Mokuton, PS shockwaves that are pretty much guaranteed hits (Naruto's TBB's are not due to the shockwave's intercepting and Preta Path).

Indeed, the shockwaves not only can interrupt charge time, but also cause a chain reaction if Bijuudama Barrage is set off, in this case, Naruto's avatar is going to suffer heavy damage.

and Shinra Tensei's 20 times as strong as Nagato's in his prime.

Agreed.