Edo Madara versus BM Naruto

[Bronze]

Wow at the retards supporting Naruto's victory! Madara wins low diff in each scenario.

He will first use Tengai Shensei to have Naruto waste his energy destroying it. Naruto will use Giant TBB, but it will take few seconds to build up such mass of Chakra, which leaves him open for any attack. During the event of charging TBB, Madara can either restrain him with Mokuton: Mokuryou as he canonically did in the manga (which Naruto only succeeded in defending him because Madara was trying to keep him alive), then Naruto is drained and restrained completely. To further make sure Naruto has no chances of escaping, he will throw off black rods and use Outer Path: Chakra Chains to suppress his Bijuu's power and block his movements. [

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] While that happens, Madara stops his meteor from coming down via his Deva Path ability. Now Naruto is suppressed completely, Madara can have fun killing him in many ways:

• Use Human Path to pull his soul out and killing him in process.
  
  
• Go to Perfect Susanoo mode, and a slash directly hitting the vital point of the avatar (head) cuts all of the avatar. As seen with Futon: Rasenshuriken, Kurama was significantly damaged; PS produces far more cutting power than FRS. Results are worse.

That's how each scenario will go down. Heck, even EMS Madara solos his punk ass.

 

[Demonic.]

^^^^ Change your name all you want Dimitri Rascalov/Madara rules. It's easy to spot you

 

[Draegod]

Not seeing how people are coming to the logical conclusion that BM Naruto loses to Edo Madara, but beats EMS Madara. EMS Madara's full power is Perfect Susanoo. To say that you believe BM Naruto wins against him, you need to believe that BM Naruto trumps Perfect Susanoo. Perfect Susanoo is also Edo Madara's full power. Those who think BM Naruto beats EMS Madara already believe that BM Naruto takes out PS.

So, why do people say that Edo Madara wins but EMS Madara loses? Because of Mokuton inferior to PS? Mokuton that the Kyuubi has already wrecked in canon? Rinnegan that is inferior to Perfect Susanoo?

Lol.

They upgraded the reg edo madara to fanfic Nagato+edo madara fused (he has all of nagatos feats but on another level ofc).

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

They upgraded the reg edo madara to fanfic Nagato+edo madara fused (he has all of nagatos feats but on another level ofc).

Madara doesn't stand a chance otherwise.

 

[Sound]

Naruto wins 1 & 2, Madara wins 3.

 

[KidGamer65]

They upgraded the reg edo madara to fanfic Nagato+edo madara fused (he has all of nagatos feats but on another level ofc).

I'm not even convinced that the regular Rinnegan techs will be enough, even if it's a tier above Nagato's usage.

Deva Path tho.

What about it can really help him here though?

 

[Beans2]

I'm not even convinced that the regular Rinnegan techs will be enough, even if it's a tier above Nagato's usage.

What about it can really help him here though?

Deflect bijuudamas back at Naruto with ST, or draw him in with BT and use PS slashes to cut through Kurama avatar.

 

[KidGamer65]

Deflect bijuudamas back at Naruto with ST, or draw him in with BT and use PS slashes to cut through Kurama avatar.

Naruto can rapid fire Bijuu Dama and Shinra Tensei has a cooldown. Madara would probably need CST to push anything above a Standard Bijuu Dama back at Naruto.

PS Slashes can't cut through the Avatar just like that, not when it tanked the Juubi Laser. If Madara draws him in, Naruto blocks with his tails and then hammers Susanoo w/ Bijuu Dama during the 5 second cooldown.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Edo Madara probably takes scenario 1 due to having wood style in addition to PS to keep Naruto in small-scale, and the rinnegan to dominate the small-scale. Naruto definately takes scenario 2. This is low-mid diff. Naruto has way too much power. I'd say that Naruto takes scenario 3. I think SM enhanced Kurama Avatar should have more power than even PS merged with Kurama. Either way, high-diff on that one.

BTW, is this a Naruto with full Kurama? If so, then Naruto clears all scenarios but number 1.

I second this, I also as you believe BSM Naruto would beat PS merged with Kurama.

Madara wins all scenario's

And lmao at all this comments, EMS Madara>>>BSM Naruto

What a bullshit, BSM Naruto would beat EMS Madara low diff, maybe even stomp. even BM Naruto beats EMS Madara but mid-hard diff.

Madara takes the first scenario. However, without the Kyuubi Madara has no chance against BSM naruto. Naruto stomps Scenario 2, as no mokuton short of SS can defeat BSM naruto, and Madara does not have it. PS gets taken apart my multiple bijuudamas. The third scenario goes to Madara high diff.

I agree with second scenario. First, most likely too but it would come with mid-high diff at least.

Third Scenario is on equal ground so debetable I would say.

Wow at the retards supporting Naruto's victory! Madara wins low diff in each scenario.

He will first use Tengai Shensei to have Naruto waste his energy destroying it. Naruto will use Giant TBB, but it will take few seconds to build up such mass of Chakra, which leaves him open for any attack. During the event of charging TBB, Madara can either restrain him with Mokuton: Mokuryou as he canonically did in the manga (which Naruto only succeeded in defending him because Madara was trying to keep him alive), then Naruto is drained and restrained completely. To further make sure Naruto has no chances of escaping, he will throw off black rods and use Outer Path: Chakra Chains to suppress his Bijuu's power and block his movements. [

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] [

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] While that happens, Madara stops his meteor from coming down via his Deva Path ability. Now Naruto is suppressed completely, Madara can have fun killing him in many ways:

• Use Human Path to pull his soul out and killing him in process.
  
  
• Go to Perfect Susanoo mode, and a slash directly hitting the vital point of the avatar (head) cuts all of the avatar. As seen with Futon: Rasenshuriken, Kurama was significantly damaged; PS produces far more cutting power than FRS. Results are worse.

That's how each scenario will go down. Heck, even EMS Madara solos his punk ass.

That bunch of assumptions and if scneario to only make Madara winner in each scenario. I don;t deny that Madara can pul win in some of them but it isn't as easy as you described it.

1. Why would Naruto even bother destroying Tengai Shinsei instead of avoiding it ?, BSM Naruto is very fast , well actually even BM while using sunshin would blitz around Madara, before Madara became Jin. Well even although Rinne Tensei Madara comes close still not enough.

2. Even considering that Naruto actually decided to blow the meteorite, it wouldn;t take so much time as Naruto is acutally pretty fast in charging TBB as proved more then at one time. Mokuton will not surprise or neither catch him now when he has knowledge about it. Naruto either bust it with small TBB comming from chakra arms or avoid using sunshin.

3. No valid proof that Edo Madara can use outer path chains with Fake Rinnegan as proved by manga only when Madara got real Rinnegan he could summon Gedo Mazou.

Neither of your listed finishing moves of Madara would certainly work as I proved by manga feats that catching BM , not even mentioning BSM naruto would be not that easy.

Kurama mode avatar > Half Kurama in mind , sorry but you have to try harder.

1. BM Naruto or Edo Madara can takes this extreme high diff
2. BSM Naruto beats Edo Madara low-mid diff
3. BSM Naruto or Edo Madara with Complete Kurama takes this extreme high diff

 

[Bronze]

That bunch of assumptions and if scneario to only make Madara winner in each scenario. I don;t deny that Madara can pul win in some of them but it isn't as easy as you described it.

I'm making a premise conclusion. Whether you think it's as easy or not, you need to show why so.

1. Why would Naruto even bother destroying Tengai Shinsei instead of avoiding it ?, BSM Naruto is very fast , well actually even BM while using sunshin would blitz around Madara, before Madara became Jin. Well even although Rinne Tensei Madara comes close still not enough.

I've already given a calculation for Tengai Shensei's size a year ago. It crosses more than 1km, and Naruto is not outrunning that much distance in number of seconds. But even if he tried to outrun it, Madara won't let him. That is why if he tried to, Mokuton: Flower Tree World puts him in place. Naruto can't blitz Edo Madara, at all. [

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2. Even considering that Naruto actually decided to blow the meteorite, it wouldn;t take so much time as Naruto is acutally pretty fast in charging TBB as proved more then at one time. Mokuton will not surprise or neither catch him now when he has knowledge about it. Naruto either bust it with small TBB comming from chakra arms or avoid using sunshin.

Naruto destroying the meteor with small TBB? Give us another joke. It would take massive TBB to destroy the meteor, which he has to charge one for how long, and during that time-span Madara restrains him. He won't see it coming when preparing a big attack nor avoiding when he's still charging it.

3. No valid proof that Edo Madara can use outer path chains with Fake Rinnegan as proved by manga only when Madara got real Rinnegan he could summon Gedo Mazou.

...?...[

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] Black rods use the Outer Path technique, which Edo Madara used on Edo Hashirama. The black rods which can manifest Chakra Chains without Gedo Mazou. [

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Neither of your listed finishing moves of Madara would certainly work as I proved by manga feats that catching BM , not even mentioning BSM naruto would be not that easy.

You haven't proved jack, as I have refuted everyone point you brought up. The only difference between BSM and BM Naruto, is BSM Naruto can sense and predict attacks better; that's all.

Kurama mode avatar > Half Kurama in mind , sorry but you have to try harder.

Which you base on no manga evidence whatsoever.

 

[Apêx1]

Madara wins Scenario 1, loses scenario 2 and wins Scenario 3.

 

[KCMNaruto]

I'm making a premise conclusion. Whether you think it's as easy or not, you need to show why so.

Sure, i will prove it right away.

I've already given a calculation for Tengai Shensei's size a year ago. It crosses more than 1km, and Naruto is not outrunning that much distance in number of seconds. But even if he tried to outrun it, Madara won't let him. That is why if he tried to, Mokuton: Flower Tree World puts him in place. Naruto can't blitz Edo Madara, at all. [

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I was going to counterargument you, but well you brought Flower Tree world which spread sleeping pollen which is valid and quite hard to oppose argument. Still I believe Naruto would leave that area in time to got out of it. If not then Naruto can blow up Tree World with TBB which could cuase sleeping pollen to fade away/disperse etc.

That was BM clone and it was just jump, here you have BM Naruto sunshin speed:

Spoiler

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and another one:

Spoiler

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Naruto destroying the meteor with small TBB? Give us another joke. It would take massive TBB to destroy the meteor, which he has to charge one for how long, and during that time-span Madara restrains him. He won't see it coming when preparing a big attack nor avoiding when he's still charging it.

lol, I didn't even suggest it lol, I mean flash bijudama which Naruto used against other bijuu and it seemed like be charged in really short time. I would argue about second sentence as eariler Naruto was caught off guard only due to lack of knowledge, I doubt he would fall again.

...?...[

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] Black rods use the Outer Path technique, which Edo Madara used on Edo Hashirama. The black rods which can manifest Chakra Chains without Gedo Mazou. [

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Ok, then why didn't Madara use outerpath chains before he got real Rinnegan ?, why didn't he use it against Edo Hashirama ?
It was Obito's feats and still Gedo Mazou was already out.

You haven't proved jack, as I have refuted everyone point you brought up. The only difference between BSM and BM Naruto, is BSM Naruto can sense and predict attacks better; that's all.

IV Databook greatly disagree with you, manga in some parts as well but to lesser degree.

Which you base on no manga evidence whatsoever.

I based these on manga scans/feats, try to refute these claims

 

[Beans2]

Naruto can rapid fire Bijuu Dama and Shinra Tensei has a cooldown. Madara would probably need CST to push anything above a Standard Bijuu Dama back at Naruto.

PS Slashes can't cut through the Avatar just like that, not when it tanked the Juubi Laser. If Madara draws him in, Naruto blocks with his tails and then hammers Susanoo w/ Bijuu Dama during the 5 second cooldown.

If Naruto rapid fires bijuudama the first TBB that Madara repelled would collide with the others, though, and not land a direct hot on PS. Can't Madara absorb the chakra avatar, or make clones absorb it? I agree that Naruto wins but this is just for the sake of discussion.

 

[Bronze]

I was going to counterargument you, but well you brought Flower Tree world which spread sleeping pollen which is valid and quite hard to oppose argument. Still I believe Naruto would leave that area in time to got out of it. If not then Naruto can blow up Tree World with TBB which could cuase sleeping pollen to fade away/disperse etc.

That was BM clone and it was just jump, here you have BM Naruto sunshin speed:

Spoiler

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and another one:

Spoiler

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First off, the BM Naruto I was talking about is the one with the Kurama avatar manifested. He's never destroying the flower in his BM base form, due to the lack of fire-power. And if ends up transforming to use TBB during, he's opened to be hit by Madara. [

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] And stop with the Naruto avoiding in time, because he will never do that. The reach of Flower Tree World can be scaled from PS's view. Naruto will never outrun it, period.

lol, I didn't even suggest it lol, I mean flash bijudama which Naruto used against other bijuu and it seemed like be charged in really short time. I would argue about second sentence as eariler Naruto was caught off guard only due to lack of knowledge, I doubt he would fall again.

Consider the time-frame between Bee and Hachibi talking to each other, which is enough for Mokuton to restrain him. And even if my premise fails, Madara can shoot Asura Path rockets to disturb the Chakra ratio charging, which results to being exploded. Of course, Madara would have already set up PS to tank the damage, but Naruto would take heavy damage from the explosion.

Ok, then why didn't Madara use outerpath chains before he got real Rinnegan ?, why didn't he use it against Edo Hashirama ?
It was Obito's feats and still Gedo Mazou was already out.

Do you know what the Outer Path: Chakra Chain is for? To suppress Bijuu's power. Is Hashirama Bijuu or Jinchuuriki? No. Is Naruto a Jinchuuriki? Yes. Not really, bud, Obito's Rinnegan feats were passed down from Madara; and the Mazou was being transformed to the Juubi. The chains were never coming out directly from the statue but from the black rods.

IV Databook greatly disagree with you, manga in some parts as well but to lesser degree.

You might as well post Databook document; and this time, post an actual one instead of a one you make up like the spoilers.

I based these on manga scans/feats, try to refute these claims

Which once again, you haven't with me countering each point.

 

[KidGamer65]

If Naruto rapid fires bijuudama the first TBB that Madara repelled would collide with the others, though, and not land a direct hot on PS. Can't Madara absorb the chakra avatar, or make clones absorb it? I agree that Naruto wins but this is just for the sake of discussion.

Never said he'd fire multiple Bijuu Dama at once. He fires one, Madara repels it, then Naruto rapid fires during the cooldown.

Sure, he can absorb the Avatar, if he wants a clone to beat his arse since he won't be able to absorb non chakra based attacks, nor will be able to absorb a large enough Bijuu Dama.

 

[KCMNaruto]

First off, the BM Naruto I was talking about is the one with the Kurama avatar manifested. He's never destroying the flower in his BM base form, due to the lack of fire-power. And if ends up transforming to use TBB during, he's opened to be hit by Madara. [

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] And stop with the Naruto avoiding in time, because he will never do that. The reach of Flower Tree World can be scaled from PS's view. Naruto will never outrun it, period.

but Flash bijuudama is almost instant, even if I agree that only Kurama avatar could destroy it. Do not compare slow humans like Kages to BM Sunshin speed which is on completly another tier or even two tiers above.

As I said if he has no chance outrun it then flash bijuudama will blow it completly.

Consider the time-frame between Bee and Hachibi talking to each other, which is enough for Mokuton to restrain him. And even if my premise fails, Madara can shoot Asura Path rockets to disturb the Chakra ratio charging, which results to being exploded. Of course, Madara would have already set up PS to tank the damage, but Naruto would take heavy damage from the explosion.

nope, they just shared few words, and TBB was ready. just in the same page or I would say double page:

Spoiler

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I doubt Madara would have time to pull PS, but Anyway if Madara's PS can tank this then so can Kurama avatar which was shown rivaling Sasuke PS.

Do you know what the Outer Path: Chakra Chain is for? To suppress Bijuu's power. Is Hashirama Bijuu or Jinchuuriki? No. Is Naruto a Jinchuuriki? Yes. Not really, bud, Obito's Rinnegan feats were passed down from Madara; and the Mazou was being transformed to the Juubi. The chains were never coming out directly from the statue but from the black rods.

Yeah, I know but still Madara has never used them before he got alive so my point still stands. Just in case you want to add abilities based on logical deduction that he should have them due to fullfilling some conditions then same can be said about BSM Naruto using Frog Katas along with Kurama arms which would demolish Madara and damage PS.

You might as well post Databook document; and this time, post an actual one instead of a one you make up like the spoilers.

Sure, here it goes

Kurama Chakra Mode
Borrowing an enormous amount of chakra from Kurama, who has been sealed in his body, Naruto exhibits overwhelming power. By simultaneously activating Sage Mode, his sensory capabilities and the strength of his ninjutsu are significantly increased...!!

Caption: With the Four Symbols Seal lifted, his chakra flows out like flames.

Which once again, you haven't with me countering each point.

Yeas I did, but you smartly countered my points again

 

[Bronze]

but Flash bijuudama is almost instant, even if I agree that only Kurama avatar could destroy it. Do not compare slow humans like Kages to BM Sunshin speed which is on completly another tier or even two tiers above.

As I said if he has no chance outrun it then flash bijuudama will blow it completly.

And Mokuton appears instantaneous as well. [

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] Lel, no matter if it's BM Naruto Shunshin or not, he's not outrunning a Jutsu that crosses over 100m. And you haven't countered Madara catching him off-guard when charging TBB.

nope, they just shared few words, and TBB was ready. just in the same page or I would say double page:



I doubt Madara would have time to pull PS, but Anyway if Madara's PS can tank this then so can Kurama avatar which was shown rivaling Sasuke PS.

Like the scan posted above, Mokuton can appear as fast as TBB's formation, so it will grab him and everything goes back to my original premise.

PS can be activated instantly. [

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] And no, Sasuke's PS is nowhere near the scaling of Madara's PS, so don't bother mentioning him. He has no feats with EMS. And actually, Draegod posted a databook page, which says Sasuke achieved PS due to Naruto's/Kurama's Chakra. Either way, if Kurama has the durability comparable to PS, Madara wouldn't fear it being taken out by its own TBB, which he resorted to defending it via PS; it shows you which the superior in defensive capacity is.

Yeah, I know but still Madara has never used them before he got alive so my point still stands. Just in case you want to add abilities based on logical deduction that he should have them due to fullfilling some conditions then same can be said about BSM Naruto using Frog Katas along with Kurama arms which would demolish Madara and damage PS.

The OP said Edo Madara can use Six Paths techniques, which means he has access to them. It took the Shinsuusenju's mountain-sized arms to pound half of PS, and you think Frog Kata will 1/4th of that? Please. If it was so useful, we would see it against Sasuke's PS. PS tanks it low diff.

Sure, here it goes

As far as Ninjutsu goes? His Senjutsu TBB was equal to Sasuke's Senjutsu arrow, so I'm not too sure. Will it increase? Yeah, but not significantly; not with what feats showed in the manga.

 

[KCMNaruto]

And Mokuton appears instantaneous as well. [

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] Lel, no matter if it's BM Naruto Shunshin or not, he's not outrunning a Jutsu that crosses over 100m. And you haven't countered Madara catching him off-guard when charging TBB.

Truth, but no all Mokuton techniques absorb chakra even if they restrict bijuu power..., what stop Naruto from switching to SM and tearing it apart escaping it ?, not even sure how possible it would work on BSM Naruto who;s chakra is combination of Bijuu chakra(Kurama) and nature energy.

Idk about outrunning so I won't press this case. About countering possibility of Madara catching him off guard well, army of clones would do well, don't you think ? if not then tails of Kurama with rasengan and the end of it, or using FRS(I know I push it know, as it would require too much focus, but why not ?) to distract Madara then TBB at blank point.

Like the scan posted above, Mokuton can appear as fast as TBB's formation, so it will grab him and everything goes back to my original premise.

and what's stop naruto from tearing it aparts unless it is wood dragon, wood god gates, wood human/golem or SS ?

PS can be activated instantly. [

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] [

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] [

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] And no, Sasuke's PS is nowhere near the scaling of Madara's PS, so don't bother mentioning him. He has no feats with EMS. And actually, Draegod posted a databook page, which says Sasuke achieved PS due to Naruto's/Kurama's Chakra. Either way, if Kurama has the durability comparable to PS, Madara wouldn't fear it being taken out by its own TBB, which he resorted to defending it via PS; it shows you which the superior in defensive capacity is.

^^ and why shouldn't he take precautions just in case, I doubt Madara knows how durable Kurama was because how ?, magic ? Kishi told him ?

The OP said Edo Madara can use Six Paths techniques, which means he has access to them. It took the Shinsuusenju's mountain-sized arms to pound half of PS, and you think Frog Kata will 1/4th of that? Please. If it was so useful, we would see it against Sasuke's PS. PS tanks it low diff.

@ bold part, ok, then it chance it actually but still Edo Madara fighting style would make him stick to preta path, not all paths abilties.

I meant frog Katas used through Kurama avatar gaint arms which would be quite big so they could carry a lot of power as well.

I know that SM alone with frog Katas would do shit to PS.

As far as Ninjutsu goes? His Senjutsu TBB was equal to Sasuke's Senjutsu arrow, so I'm not too sure. Will it increase? Yeah, but not significantly; not with what feats showed in the manga.

Debatable as damage was not shown as equal also, it was uncharged one.

I saw it more like both used their strongest attack , but it doesn't mean they were packing same force... unless I am wrong.

 

[Omar19992010]

Madara wins Scenario 1 and 3. Naruto wins Scenario 2.

 

[Bronze]

Truth, but no all Mokuton techniques absorb chakra even if they restrict bijuu power..., what stop Naruto from switching to SM and tearing it apart escaping it ?, not even sure how possible it would work on BSM Naruto who;s chakra is combination of Bijuu chakra(Kurama) and nature energy.

Idk about outrunning so I won't press this case. About countering possibility of Madara catching him off guard well, army of clones would do well, don't you think ? if not then tails of Kurama with rasengan and the end of it, or using FRS(I know I push it know, as it would require too much focus, but why not ?) to distract Madara then TBB at blank point.

Mokuton: Mokuryoo absorbs any Chakra on contact. Sage Mode is fused with Kurama's Chakra, so it will be absorbed on contact.

Naruto isn't creating army of Kage Bunshin when being put to sleep by the pollen if he's on range. It's either that he jumps upon the creation of the forest and charges TBB to destroy the flower (as my premise showed so), or he won't make it in time. And Madara can also create Mokuton Bunshin to engage Naruto's clones, so there won't be any distractions.

and what's stop naruto from tearing it aparts unless it is wood dragon, wood god gates, wood human/golem or SS ?

He's not tearing Wood Dragon when his Chakra is being absorbed. If he could do so, he would have done it

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, but clearly he was overpowered, restrained and drained completely.

^^ and why shouldn't he take precautions just in case, I doubt Madara knows how durable Kurama was because how ?, magic ? Kishi told him ?

That's the thing, he took precautions because he doesn't trust the fact Kurama could tank its own TBB, but instead trusted in his PS's durability to do that for him. Beside that, add the fact Kurama got wrecked by Naruto's Senpou: Futon Rasenshuriken. [

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] Would PS get damage from SM Naruto's Rasenshuriken? No.

@ bold part, ok, then it chance it actually but still Edo Madara fighting style would make him stick to preta path, not all paths abilties.

Not really. If Naruto is ever charging TBB or he's engaging him in CQC, he could always use Asura Path to shoot rockets to disturb the ratio Chakra, or he could overpower him with Ashura Path's physical strength. If he's ever in close contact with Madara, he could always use Human Path to pull his soul out. He could pull Naruto directly out of Kurama's avatar if he needs to, use Shinra Tensei to repel any attack he throws, or use Chibaku Tensei to make a raindrop (which doesn't relevantly need to be as big as he made it with both of his Rinnegan). So yes, he has options of using the Six Paths when needing it.

I meant frog Katas used through Kurama avatar gaint arms which would be quite big so they could carry a lot of power as well.

As I have said, Shinsuusenju produces multiple times the strength of Kurama's avatar and SM, so the latter isn't enough.

Debatable as damage was not shown as equal also, it was uncharged one.

I saw it more like both used their strongest attack , but it doesn't mean they were packing same force... unless I am wrong.

It was portrayed to be; and you can see the damage from the left-under panel. [

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