[VS] (DrProof) vs (Kages) Team Mizukage vs Team Tsuchikage! (Debate)

[Kages]

You've improved since our last debate. That I like. Good Counter (reading it now), also don't bring your team down like that! They have good chances to win.

Haha thanks And maybe..

 

[tell it all]

Why are you guys being so nice? lol when I debate I go for the kill mortal kombat style Dr.Proof..FINISH HIM! xd btw frog song will not effect the Mizukage much cause he can liquify I see no point in banning it

 

[Kages]

Why are you guys being so nice? lol when I debate I go for the kill mortal kombat style Dr.Proof..FINISH HIM! xd

It's pointless flaming each other because the thread will get closed and it's rude... Lol xd

 

[tell it all]

It's pointless flaming each other because the thread will get closed and it's rude... Lol xd

You don't have to flame eachother I'm just saying you guys are so nice to eachother like it's a 1st grade game "everyone's a winner yay " lol

 

[Kages]

You don't have to flame eachother I'm just saying you guys are so nice to eachother like it's a 1st grade game "everyone's a winner yay " lol

Others respect what you say It's not first grade but we aren't mean to each other.

Fine.

DrProof was and always will be a troll :drive: Haha jk xd

 

[tell it all]

Others respect what you say It's not first grade but we aren't mean to each other.

Fine.

DrProof was and always will be a troll :drive: Haha jk xd

:rofl: i didn't mean it like that xd (he was trollin at one point tough lol) I was taking about the compliments and stuff. Get competitive and serious guys.

 

[Kages]

:rofl: i didn't mean it like that xd (he was trollin at one point tough lol) I was taking about the compliments and stuff. Get competitive and serious guys.

Will do lol

 

[Minato of Konoha]

Still waiting on Dr.Proof, imagine if he's working on a killer argument that's 3 pages long... If that's the case, you're screwed Kages

 

[Kages]

Still waiting on Dr.Proof, imagine if he's working on a killer argument that's 3 pages long... If that's the case, you're screwed Kages

Doubt it

 

[DrProof]

Almost done with my counter. Be ready Kages.

 

[Minato of Konoha]

Almost done with my counter. Be ready Kages.

I'm pumped to see what Dr.Proof came up with. As most people know I didn't like Kages but that was brilliant what he did there..

 

[DrProof]

Spoiler

How Jiraiya and Muu can beat Orochimaru and Second Mizukage​

Jiraiya dealing with Orochimaru's Snakes

Orochimaru has summoned snakes on several occasions, wether they are large, or small snakes. A way Jiraiya can counter all of Orochimaru's large snakes is with his Earth Release: Swamp of the Underworld. Jiraiya

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,but Jiraiya's chakra was drugged so Jiraiya was no where near full power. Another way for Jiraiya to capture and kill the large snakes ultimately

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Jiraiya against the thousands of tiny snakes will be quite a challenge, however Jiraiya's

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can kill most of them with ease

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If some of them get too close, Jiraiya's

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can take care of them, making all of them disperse.

Dealing with Manda

Manda will be harder to deal with than the regular large snake Summonings of Orochimaru. One way to deal with Manda is for Jiraiya to

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in the eye,

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Don't say Jiraiya can't jump high enough to kick Manda's eye, because

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Muu can also give him the ability to fly, if he can do that. Anyway after Jiraiya kicks it in they eye, blinding it, Muu will

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,which takes him not very long.

Countering Second Mizukage's Genjutsu and Clam

A way to counter the Genjutsu is for Jiraiya to use

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to sense anything that is around him, enabling him to tell where the Clam is and destroy it,

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Jiraiya's frogs may also break him out of the Genjutsu. A way for Jiraiya to destroy the Clam is by

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- the Clam or Second Mizukage have no counter. Muu can fly so he doesn't get hit by it, and don't forget that

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so that he will also know where the Clam is. The Clam will be destroyed by Sage Art: Goemen as the oil mixed with the fire and wind will cause it to explode.

Jiraiya's Summons against Eight Branches

Jiraiya's summons can defeat Eight Branches for many reasons, Gamabunta has a

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to cut off their heads, Gamaken has

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that can keep the heads together as Gamabunta slices them off, and Jiraiya can use

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to keep them together and crush them as well.

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will also be capable of hurting Eight Branches. I know Orochimaru will just come back together and shed his skin, but he can't do that forever and it won't be so easy for him.

Jiraiya Prep Time

You might ask how Jiraiya can go into Sage Mode that quick, well, just like last time, Jiraiya will summon one of his frogs to keep the enemy company as he proceeds to enter Sage Mode. That, and Muu can help him this time.

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can have one of his bodies protect Jiraiya as he goes into Sage Mode, which will only take not very long.

How to Defeat the Second Mizukage

Mu can tell if the Second Mizukage is a clone or not because of his sensing abilities, so they would know if the Mizukage is a clone or not to kill him before he uses Joki Boy. He can hydrify at almost anything, but not at Sage Art: Goemen. This technique would make him burn up and even worse if he was water. His Water Gun technique can be tanked by Jiraiya, because Jiraiya

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and could still fight. Another way to defeat him is by continuously spamming

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so that Second Mizukage reaches a boiling point if he turns into water and it's clear that he would die if he was stable.


Btw, just so you know, I'm saying my team would only by feats. Personally, I think that your team would win only if Frog Song was restricted. If Frog Song wasn't restricted, it would be a tie, but by feats, I think my team would have the upper hand.

Jiraiya/Muu Cannot Defeat Manda



The minor snake category you've added is not needed, as they don't play much importance in this match-up in my opinion itself. Jiraiya/Muu cannot defeat Manda, and this is fact. Your main counter to Manda is that Jiraiya can kick him in the eye, and make him blind. This may be a true accusation, however that does not place Manda in any sort of disability. Why is this? Let me educate you:

Even if a snake’s eyes are injured or become blinded later on in life somehow, a snake will not seem to be handicapped. They are still able to easily find their prey and catch them with the same precision with which they normally would, even when they have fully functional eyes. This is due to their forked tongue and keen sense of smell. Their tongue being forked enables the snake to use each of the forked parts to smell the prey individually. This is why snakes are often seen throwing their tongues out of their mouths, it is helping them to find the smell of their prey.

The above being stated, Jiraiya's way of countering him with the tactics you've set up for him are futile. However to fully deconstruct the approach you set for Jiraiya/Muu.

Manda's size doesn't hinder his most important attribute, Speed. Speed is what will allow him to escape Jiraiya's Geomon Jutsu, and Muu's Particle Style.

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Doubts might be given to which Manda cannot escape Muu's Particle Style, however I disagree. Manda is able to do a rather common activity snakes perform, and that is Burrowing. This will allow Manda to completely submerge himself into the ground, and surprisingly attack Jiraiya, and/or Muu (even if Muu is aerial summons tend to be huge, and Manda mouth span is immense).

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To add even more to the plate, Manda himself is sturdy enough to endure any attack Jiraiya/Muu have in their arsenal (except Particle Style) theoretically because it was seen that Manda himself was strong enough to take head on (due to Sasuke summoning him as protection) Deidara's C0 (ultimate attack) and still be fully intact, and actually alive for a few moments. Thus' Jiraiya, and Muu (except for Particle style) do not have such techniques to pierce him. However weapons such as swords etc. (seen when Tsunade used Gamabunta's sword to cut his mouth) seem to be his weakness around his facial area.

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Also due to the fact that Sasuke was shown to reverse summon Manda with Orochimaru's DNA inside of himself that can be classified as an S/T Technique itself. Thus here's what I'm getting at if Muu used a Particle Style big enough to destroy a mass area of which Deidara's C0 reached, and/or greater Orochimaru could simply reverse summon (what all summons do when they are unneeded or willed to do so) to escape the attack.

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Due to the fact haven't seen what Orochimaru's Eight Branches Technique capabilities I cannot debate with it, thus I say Dust Release>That technique. Where as Jiraiya himself cannot counter such. If Gamabunta+Katsuya cannot fend against Manda, I don't see how they can counter something as big/strong as Manda with multiple heads.

Jiraiya Nor Muu Can Counter Mizukage's Clam


Yes, I've said it. Even after the extensive proof you've given I can confidently say that both Muu, and Jiraiya cannot counter the Mizukage's Clan factually. True Jiraiya's barrier can sense his opponents that are caught in its expanding range, however there is a slight problem.. The user can only detect things that show signs of activity.

Spoiler

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activities plural of ac·tiv·i·ty (Noun)
Noun

• The condition in which things are happening or being done.
• Busy or vigorous action or movement.

Jiraiya's frogs can't actually break him out of the Genjutsu, as he isn't actually in a Genjutsu he's just seeing Mirages. Thus, Muu wouldn't be able to detect the clam as well seeing as he doesn't have any physical sensing such as Gaara's Sand Sensing which actually showed the clams location (sand gathered around it clinging to it giving Oonoki a visual) .. However yes it is true Muu could fly out of the Clam's technique's range, however that would be no help to Jiraiya virtually leaving him helpless in the end due to no countering for the said technique.

Falsity about Jiraiya's Prep Time



Jiraiay's prep time for Sage Mode is indeed long, and it will stay like this due to Jiraiya having no direct help in this situation. Yes, Muu will indeed be of assistance but not much as Manda has already been seen to deal with Gamabunta, and Katsuya so there would be no point in using the frogs to fight against Manda, along with Orochimaru's other snake summons due to the fact that Manda would completely demolish them all.

Your assumption to which Muu would be of assistance is wrong. Seeing as when Muu splits himself his power is halved along with the fact he isn't able to use his particle style (and due to the fact we haven't seen him use other affinities he is useless when splitting) thus' he cannot remerge with his other half as it wasn't seen. This makes Muu a liability if nothing else.

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Muu Nor Jiraiya Can Kill The 2nd Mizukage


Mizukage is at a disadvantage when entering his liquification form, however due to the fact that he is mixed with water as to oil as well has me to believe fire jutsu would only partially effect him.. This isn't a key factor, however so I'll be moving on to the big things now.

The 2nd Mizukage would deploy his technique Jouki Boy which would be the main issue. With the counters I've already listed above Muu would be helpless (no jinton), and Jiraiya would be dead or at least near death. That being stated they have no counter, you stated Muu would sense that it is a clone, however that is the obvious to which it wouldn't make a difference. Jiraiya's Geomon would actually speed up the process (giving the advantage to the 2nd Mizukage) due to the oil hot temperature+water causing an explosion making the explosion stronger, or at least quicker.

Also, don't forget about Jouki Boy's speed.. It's actually quite outstanding, it was able to elude Gaara's chakra infused sand to which we know acts on it's free will due to it protecting him.

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This would leave them rendered useless.. Or to Orochimaru's mercy.. (I haven't even started on Orochimaru yet)

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

But due to the fact this wouldn't be a direct counter to the said method and/or it would be pointless to state that is why it is invalid you must directly counter the method/technique with precise rather than off chance.

Not all battles are won with pre determined plans and straight forward methods.
This is where intelligence ans strategy come into play.
Summoning gambunta to use toad oil bullet in concentrations in a finite area is a tactic.
That could potentially work just as any other justu has a potential of hitting its target or completely missing.

I don't think your taking gamabunta seriously and fail to see its the very same thing that gaara did but with oil rather then sand.And to refute this is to refute the clinging sand.


A method is a series of steps, or collection of methods, taken to acquire knowledge
Knowing the mirage has a range and selectively choosing to blanket and area that would either spot the clam or rule out definite spots where the clam is not (Because its range is finite which means he would eventually have to hit the clan at some point)and deducing where to choose to douse next requires steps of thought.And your forgetting that wherever jiraiya doesn't cover Muu can focus an attack which brings the chances of finding the clam sooner even higher rather then later.

This would be the definition of a method.
A collaborative method at that

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

I get what you're saying. But this debate is more over countering via techniques in specifics. Not the whole I rationally shoot oil in so, and so direction oh look I've found the clam! etc..

This is just a simple countering debate. You made a good point, however I believe that method is ineffecient.

Anyhow, delete you post as we've almost filled the second page, along with us debating more than the real contestants Me, and Kages.

If you want to debate just send me a VM.

Will do but i would also like to point out while i delete my previous post that a summon would fall under the technique category and by eliminating the mirage would fall under countering "via techniques in specifics".Specificity being the clam summoning.

I hope you were reading all this kages (Not that i am suggesting you need help debating but it certainly can't help to have some insight from another perspective right ?)

 

[Jiraiya Namikaze]

Nice debate, in my opinion I think jiraiya and mu would win, and you should know that from my account info.

 

[Minato of Konoha]

Nice debate, in my opinion I think jiraiya and mu would win, and you should know that from my account info.

Fanboys aren't needed in this debate, non biased only (I don't mean to offend, sorry if I come off that way)

 

[Minato of Konoha]

Nice debate, in my opinion I think jiraiya and mu would win, and you should know that from my account info.

Fanboys aren't needed in this debate, non biased only (I don't mean to offend, sorry if I come off that way)

 

[Jiraiya Namikaze]

Fanboys aren't needed in this debate, non biased only (I don't mean to offend, sorry if I come off that way)

I like jiraiya for a reason you know, and it's not because his weak.

 

[CharlieBundels]

Muu vs Second Mizukage has always been one of my favourite debates, not to mention the two sannin jumping in as well. This should be good.

 

[DrProof]

Nice debate, in my opinion I think jiraiya and mu would win, and you should know that from my account info.

The bias is strong with this one.