(DrProof) Tobirama's Resolve

[Unbiased King]

I feel honored to have my post ignored (#26) by the great Dr. Proof.

 

[DrProof]

How was he to know a war would come? Also, I've never put a dog in charge of a police force. So, they should have let the Uchiha rebel and kill many innocent Konoha villagers and throw the entire village into chaos, allowing other villages to come in and rape, murder, and plunder? Good logic there. Good chat.

Exactly.

You're right, but let's not forget that Tobirama represents the truth, and a lot of people don't like the truth, for some reason.

I can't stand people who dislike the truth...

That's why people must understand to accept the truth, and not go against its principles. Hating Tobirama for such matters is pointless.

It is Tobirama's fault that the Uchiha clan is gone, it is his fault that the 3rd Hokage Hiruzen died, his wretched technique. Every single Hidden Leaf problem has some ties to Tobirama, I do not favor him like I did anymore.

• Hiruzen ordered Itachi to kill the Uchiha Clan, how is that Tobirama's fault? Hiruzen didn't keep them at bay like Tobirama had done, and that was the Uchiha clan's downfall.
  
• The third hokage died due to the misuse in Edo Tensei, Orochimaru wouldn't have had performed the jutsu if he had killed Orochimaru when he had first discovered his true intentions.
  
• Name a few problems in which I haven't already dismissed with my above responses. Saying every problem in the leaf was Tobirama's fault is inaccurate.

 

[Thundercles]

I feel honored to have my post ignored (#26) by the great Dr. Proof.

Well there is the problem! His name is DrProof. He doesn't need the period OR the space.

 

[TheChosenWarrior]

Tobirama actions were selfish. His intentions were based upon protecting the senji linage. He isolation the uchiha due to the fear of an uprising and disturbance of peace, which was based off the "Will of Madara" manipulating others. He screwed up everything that Hashirama built

 

[Unbiased King]

well there is the problem! His name is drproof. He doesn't need the period or the space.

OF COURSE!
:sy:
How could I have been so careless? My sincerest apologies DrProof.

 

[DrProof]

How does bringing back the dead help against the "wild infatuation" amongst the Uchiha?

Sure they get to see the ones they love, but the MS has already sprouted and is irreversible; I didn't pick up the sense that Tobirama described this anguish as children going on a rampage.

I already stated that the "wild infatuation problem" turned into the Mangekyou Sharingan hence the problem being the despair which would unlock the deadly doujutsu. And I wasn't referring to Edo Tensei allowing them to see the clans loved ones, I was referring to it putting an end to the Uchiha Clan (killing them if they got to unstable).

And I wasn't ignoring you, I just hadn't seen the post.

Tobirama actions were selfish. His intentions were based upon protecting the senji linage. He isolation the uchiha due to the fear of an uprising and disturbance of peace, which was based off the "Will of Madara" manipulating others. He screwed up everything that Hashirama built

His actions were for the village, his intentions were based on protecting the village, his actions to isolate the Uchiha were to protect the village, and to give them something they were skilled at (killing/fighting), and to protect themselves from suicide. The Will of Madara was inherited easily most likely due to the same recurring events happening again, and again (losing their loved ones, unlocking Mangekyou Sharingan etc.). He didn't screw Hashirama's proclaimed village, he reinforced it.

 

[drknght]

I think your reading to much into what COULD have happened rather than what DID happen. Tobirama didn't kill any Uchiha's, as well he didn't treat them like dogs. He gave them freedom like any of the villagers except he gave them more responsibilities, which in turn turned into power (the police department).

So you're saying based on your logic, that you'd let a criminal kill your mother, father, and/or brother/sister WITH YOU KNOWING they were going to commit the said act, but you wouldn't act on it due to you not believing that is a logical reaction to the problem?

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Tobirama, Danzo, what's the difference? It doesn't matter who did it. I'm talking about the way of thinking. Uchihas wanted to start Coup d'état, which was directed at the government, and not random people. They didn't want to be enslaved.

If someone was to kill my relatives, I would obviously try to prevent it. It's because you are allowed to kill someone in self-defense or defense of life in general. But, you are mixing two unrelated things together. Because however, during our lives we tend to follow our own principles, for which people are ready to die. And that's praiseworthy. I'm guessing you would rather want to sit there tightly, and wait and obey your owner, rather than fight for freedom. Well, that's your choice. Only the people that put their self-actualization needs above the psychological ones, can be differentiated from animals.

 

[godzillard]

nicer try to be that tobirama

 

[DrProof]

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Tobirama, Danzo, what's the difference? It doesn't matter who did it. I'm talking about the way of thinking. Uchihas wanted to start Coup d'état, which was directed at the government, and not random people. They didn't want to be enslaved.

If someone was to kill my relatives, I would obviously try to prevent it. It's because you are allowed to kill someone in self-defense or defense of life in general. But, you are mixing two unrelated things together. Because however, during our lives we tend to follow our own principles, for which people are ready to die. And that's praiseworthy. I'm guessing you would rather want to sit there tightly, and wait and obey your owner, rather than fight for freedom. Well, that's your choice. Only the people that put their self-actualization needs above the psychological ones, can be differentiated from animals.

That whole second paragraph goes contradicts to what you said previously.

Well, now you have a big ass war about it. How is that for a great future? There wouldn't be any plans of rebellion, if Tobirama would have been more respectful, and didn't treat Uchihas like a dogs. What was the purpose of slaughtering the innocent people? They didn't do anything wrong. We don't know if they would comprise their own home. Words are just words, only actions matter. I oppose prevention. It's basically treating a person like a complete moron, to tell what will a person do beforehand. Let people do as they please, but when they commit the crime, THEN you punish them, not before.

 

[SilverSlick]

However despite your use of grammer and paragraphing.

Tobirama Was still a fascist and a discriminator

Listen Matey I don't care how many thesauruses you regurgitated.

Siding with Tobirama isn't much different then siding with Hitler.

Hashirama settled the conflict between Uchiha and Senju clans. Uchihas gave up the position of the ruler, and that wasn't enough, they started to be treated as a felonies. Tobirama basically brought the whole conflict back. It was highly prejudice to put Uchihas to ghetto. They didn't do anything wrong. They were planning rebellion, but that doesn't justify Tobirama. You don't punish a crimminal before he commits a crime. Hashirama was/is a man, Tobirama is a piece of ****.

Haters gon hate. Wankers gon wank. Debators gon debate. Procrastinators gon procrastinate. Potatos gon potate.

Please, Tobirama is fabulous.

 

[DrProof]

Haters gon hate. Wankers gon wank. Debators gon debate. Procrastinators gon procrastinate. Potatos gon potate.

Please, Tobirama is fabulous.

Tobirama is flawless, but we must debate to not fit in with the fanboys/fangirls.

 

[enditallsin]

I say fck everyone one and their moms, tobirama just told sh#t how it was. if they hate him for that than their the douche's,its really nothing but the uchiha queers talking sh#t as usual,because someone just bashed their precious clan,

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

One could argue that Tobirama acted amorally but I have no doubts about the absence of malice in his course of actions.

 

[DrProof]

I say fck everyone one and their moms, tobirama just told sh#t how it was. if they hate him for that than their the douche's,its really nothing but the uchiha queers talking sh#t as usual,because someone just bashed their precious clan,

One could argue that Tobirama acted amorally but I have no doubts about the absence of malice in his course of actions.

Agreed.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The best word to describe Tobirama is that he is more than anything a Utilitarian, the genetic predisposition of the Uchihas are a given but he wanted to use that for the greater good, tempering their strong emotions for the benefit of Konoha rather than being a detriment to it.

 

[TrollingSage]

Well, now you have a big ass war about it. How is that for a great future? There wouldn't be any plans of rebellion, if Tobirama would have been more respectful, and didn't treat Uchihas like a dogs. What was the purpose of slaughtering the innocent people? They didn't do anything wrong. We don't know if they would comprise their own home. Words are just words, only actions matter. I oppose prevention. It's basically treating a person like a complete moron, to tell what will a person do beforehand. Let people do as they please, but when they commit the crime, THEN you punish them, not before.

Hahaha. What is wrong with you? You do know planning a murder is a crime punishable under law right? If the police discover enough evidence that you're planning a crime, you will be put away.

The best word to describe Tobirama is that he is more than anything a Utilitarian, the genetic predisposition of the Uchihas are a given but he wanted to use that for the greater good, tempering their strong emotions for the benefit of Konoha rather than being a detriment to it.

Well you know what they say;"the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

 

[DrProof]

The best word to describe Tobirama is that he is more than anything a Utilitarian, the genetic predisposition of the Uchihas are a given but he wanted to use that for the greater good, tempering their strong emotions for the benefit of Konoha rather than being a detriment to it.

You kind of backed up my thread perfectly with this post mind if it goes in the OP?

Hahaha. What is wrong with you? You do know planning a murder is a crime punishable under law right? If the police discover enough evidence that you're planning a crime, you will be put away.


Well you know what they say;"the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Exactly my point, why would you allow someone to do something evil when you know they're going to do it before hand?

 

[drknght]

That whole second paragraph goes contradicts to what you said previously.

It's either you didn't understand what I said or I was not clear enough. So, let me try again. When someone will say to me, for example: "I'm gonna kill your mother" (or any other relative), the first thing you would do, in my situation, I assume, would be to kill him right there as he stands, because there is a chance that he might do it. Because he says he will do it - he actually would do it. You would call it "preventing a murder", I would call it "slaughter of an innocent person". I would kill the man only if he was really attempting to kill my relative. For example, pointing with the gun, or running with the knife near my friend or family member. There is nothing contradicting in what I say.

 

[DrProof]

It's either you didn't understand what I said or I was not clear enough. So, let me try again. When someone will say to me, for example: "I'm gonna kill your mother" (or any other relative), the first thing you would do, in my situation, I assume, would be to kill him right there as he stands, because there is a chance that he might do it. Because he says he will do it - he actually would do it. You would call it "preventing a murder", I would call it "slaughter of an innocent person". I would kill the man only if he was really attempting to kill my relative. For example, pointing with the gun, or running with the knife near my friend or family member. There is nothing contradicting in what I say.

The thing is, Tobirama didn't kill the Uchiha, he put them in a respected area where their abilities would be most benefited, however yes I'd probably kill/severely injure the person rather they were joking or not as that isn't something you say to someone.

 

[TrollingSage]

It's either you didn't understand what I said or I was not clear enough. So, let me try again. When someone will say to me, for example: "I'm gonna kill your mother" (or any other relative), the first thing you would do, in my situation, I assume, would be to kill him right there as he stands, because there is a chance that he might do it. Because he says he will do it - he actually would do it. You would call it "preventing a murder", I would call it "slaughter of an innocent person". I would kill the man only if he was really attempting to kill my relative. For example, pointing with the gun, or running with the knife near my friend or family member. There is nothing contradicting in what I say.

Yea you're right. I wouldnt kill someone who just says he will kill my mother. I will however watch my back around that person, just like Tobirama did.