(DrProof) - Kidōmaru >>> Tsunade

[Conspirator.]

This was a good read.

 

[Shitenshin no jutsu]

I think I missed the point of this thread... Even though I still believe Tsunade wins very easily the attempt to use a weak character is pretty commendable.

Now if only someone could do this with Ino...

 

[RedRobin]

Kidōmaru effortlessly destroys Tsunade without Katsuyu on her side; However, with Katsuyu's assistance the difficulty rises to high - extremely high difficulty

Nah Proof you went too far. Tsunade neg diffs with Katsuyu. I am little busy to destroy this thread but dont worry. I am coming.

 

[Beans2]

In all seriousness though Tsunade doesn't need Katsuyu.

 

[FemmeFatale]

They were afraid of armless Oro.
Tsunade hears him rustling in the bushes, and blitzes him

 

[KingHashirama]

Tsunade wrecks the kid low diff, Mid diff is she forgets all her ninja training and is still rusty like against Kabuto.

Debating with inferior characters isn't gonna put them on them top.. they are canon wise still inferior.

 

[Icelerate]

Spoiler

Kidōmaru actually has no way of defeating Katsuyu, I just want to put that out in the open right now. However, what Kidōmaru does possess is a way to completely counter her only method of offense; Acid. Katsuyu's acid is incredibly potent, being able to completely

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. However, rock, and gold are not the same properities, while rock has little, to no resistance against acid, gold itself has high resistance against the corrosive element; only naturally able to be dissolved by Aqua Regia (acid), while the most commonly used acid (Sulfuric Acid) does not dissolve gold. I will however, (since we don't know what properties Katsuyu's Acid carries) consider her acid to be of the Aqua Regia origins.

Watch this video on Acid (Aqua Regia) dissolving Gold:

It took nearly two minutes for the the gold coin to be completely dissolved, while in the beginning, the acid hardly affected the gold. This means two things:

I. Kidōmaru easily has an ample amount of time to counter the acid (estimating 30 secs to 1 min)
II. Katsuyu's acid will not be much of an issue as I previously thought

Another reason why Kidōmaru can easily counter the usually unorthodox corrosion is due to the fact that once he has the

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, application of the gold armor is basically a natural instinct, the armor is literally instant on activation, as seen against Neji, who had

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but in actuality Kidōmaru in that very same scan had already activated his gold armor. Here Neji

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as he himself is in shock that Kidōmaru had taken no damage from the sixty-four palms technique.

Kidōmaru then goes on to confirm this even further giving us the rundown on the technique; it being able to

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.

Kidōmaru is also able to

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, meaning that Katsuyu's acid once again is rendered useless, as once it comes in contact with Kidōmaru's skin, the sweat glands would emit the gold armor, removing the corrosive element completely. Overall, Kidōmaru only needs to activate his sticky gold armor, to keep Katsuyu's offensive tactics at bay.

I agree that Katsuyu acid is ineffective but Katsuyu has another method of offence, which is absorbing Kidomaru. Once Kidomaru is absorbed, he'll be immobilized allowing Tsunade to finish him off or he suffocates to death. Also despite Katsuyu acid being countered by the gold armour, it is still useful to melt incoming webs.

Tsunade is a f*ckin monster in CQC, I'll give her that, and once Kidōmaru is in her range for a clear shot he'd more than likely die. However, I'd like to give validity to his possible survival if Tsunade DID indeed catch him in CQC range (highly unlikely).​

Spoiler

Previously established, Kidōmaru's sticky gold armor is instant in activation, literally I'd estimate the rate of surfacing from the sweat glands is easily equal if not slightly less than milliseconds in deployment, as seen vs Neji. Now taking that into consideration, Kidōmaru can deploy a simple tactic to increase his resistance against Tsunade's natural monster strength:

I. Tsunade strikes
II. Kidōmaru's gold armor is deployed
III. Tsunade breaks layer of gold armor
IV. Kidōmaru quickly emits a new layer
V. Rinse & Repeat

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Yes this is possible, and yes it is an easy tactic to lessen Tsunade's overall striking strength against himself, as the gold armor rises above the skin (acting as a new layer of skin all together), meaning the original skin's sweat glands can still emit another layer of gold armor. Kidōmaru can apply this tactic countless of times because his reaction speed in regards to this applying this jutsu is abnormally quick.

Now on to the original topic of this section. Keeping Tsunade at bay, and ways away from entering Kidōmaru's CQC range.

The gold armour got destroyed by the

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. Don't say it was because of gentle fist because gentle fist was ineffective against it as it blocked the chakra (

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). Tsunade's punches were cracking ribcage susanoo which has tanked attacks far stronger than Kidomaru's gold armour so even if it softens the blow, Kidomaru will still get killed as he'll feel a great portion of the punch's power.

Spoiler

Tsunade is out of her sorts against Kidōmaru due to him being in his natural affinity; the forest. The forest is home to a plethora of insects, this gives Kidōmaru, as well his spiders the perfect camouflage against Tsunade's upfront skill-set. Note; at thirty meters Kidōmaru would easily have time to

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into

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. As seen from Neji's reaction to the instant disappearance of Kidōmaru, he was both silent, and quick; Kidōmaru would easily distance himself from Tsunade from the get-go.

Once Kidōmaru had distanced himself at a minimum of fifty meters, he'd summon Kyodaigumo:

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Take into mind that; Average sized spiders lay around 100 eggs. Large ones lay up to 2,000, but small ones only lay 1 or 2. Kyodaigumo literally means Giant Spider as the Databook clearly states.

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500-1,000 spiders

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, and up to 2,000 maximum per egg sac; Kyodaigumo easily

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, Kidōmaru even supported such a claim, as he himself stated: "

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" in regards to the spiders, symbolizing Kyodaigumo had laid another egg sac in obscurity. Then

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, they'd spread, as the Databook once again implies they do not attack randomly, but strategically.

The spiders, along with Kyodaigumo have descended, and spread out into the forest, who then on Kidōmaru's command will hurriedly rush over to Tsunade's location using the forest trees as camouflage. Kidōmaru can, and will easily keep watch of Tsunade's positioning in base as seen here, Kidōmaru had been striking Neji from

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. Not only that, Kidōmaru was

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, in probably the most intellectual, and strategic way we've seen in the manga; proving he has supernatural vision. Bar only being the Byakugan.​

​

Tsunade is attentive to the most finite details such as an

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and the ability to

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while rusty. While the

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, all Tsunade has to do is punch the ground to take all of them out. Tsunade easily outlasts Kidomaru if he keeps this up consistently.

Spoiler

Once Kidōmaru's spiders are set in stone,

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filled with chakra (refer back to DB scan above). Tsunade's only way of counter is literally causing huge fissures in the ground, and even then she's still doomed, as Kyodaigumo would continue to lay more egg sacs hundreds of meters away from the initial scene, then those spiders would rely Kidōmaru's previous command, and the cycle of swarming Tsunade begins once again.

50+ meters away Kidōmaru is able to not only see his target clearly, but

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, as he did against Neji; Neji was only able to counter (hardly) due to the Byakugan, something Tsunade does not have. This alone would kill Tsunade since

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. Tsunade by then should already be dead, after analyzing her self-regeneration/healing Kidōmaru would easily deduce a head-shot would be in order for a complete kill.​

​

I already dealt with the first paragraph. Tsunade can keep punching the ground longer than spiders swarming Tsunade. An arrow which couldn't kill Neji isn't killing Tsunade. How would a head-shot do anything when the arrow leaves a

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which is effortlessly healed by Byakogou? Not to mention Tsunade will hear the arrow coming so she can move her head a few inches or punch the ground, changing its trajectory.

Kidōmaru's visionary prowess exceeds all Doujutsu, except the Byakugan. Not only does Kidōmaru's base vision allow him to see up to 50 meters easily (he could more than likely push it by 10 - 20 more meters in base), with the implication of his third eye, his accuracy increases giving him another visionary increase of up to 100 meters!

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That's easily 150+ meters of visionary range! In the above Databook scan "even from distances he cannot be sensed", Kidōmaru is literally the best hunter-ninja the manga has ever introduced. On top of all this his Third Eye allows him to not only locate vital spots, but incredibly allow him such pinpoint accuracy to

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(his arrow only failed due to the miscalculation the force of impact regarding the tree would cause, which then changed the trajectory of his arrow; he quickly corrected the problem,

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). Even

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(which would be around 20-25 meters extra; upping his max range by 170+ meters!)

But the most interesting, and incredible parts about Kidōmaru's vision as a whole, is that

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. As well even in Base, his

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. A true monster in the art of perception.[/SPOILER]​

Nothing to say here.

Literally, Kidōmaru is one of the smartest characters we've seen in the manga, matched with the likes of Shikamaru Nara, who he even fooled with not a double trap, but a triple trap. But that isn't what's impressive about Kidōmaru, the man has been the

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, off of pure theory! Of course the theory was flawlessly tested by yours truly, but even so I can think of no one else, but Shikamaru who could have come up with a similar resolution in regards to the Hyuuga clan's weakness.

Kidōmaru is a strategic genius, and I don't use the word genius lightly. The guy

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, then

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more,

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he had gathered in his battle against Neji it was all used to configure how Neji was countering all, but some attacks from every directions, and where his assumed (through theory, and speculation) blind spot was located.

His intelligence was underplayed, and I hope I've brought this genius some limelight.​

Nothing to say here.

Recognizing Tsunade hadn't died from normal means, Kidōmaru would quit playing games, as he did with Neji increasing his overall output by a lot. When Kidōmaru gets serious, not only does his accuracy increase, but the sheer power of his techniques upscale by 100% (along with his accuracy), as seen here:

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only using 100% accuracy with a non-drilled arrow which caused a crater. Then later

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, his damage was

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by a significant margin as seen here.

But wait, there's more! It not only increased his accuracy, and damage output, but also his SPEED! Byakugan which allows the user to see hundreds of meters away, was

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, and Kidōmaru himself knew so!

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Tsunade does not possess the capabilities to defeat Kidōmaru, as she would not be able to counter the sheer speed, and force of his arrows, well as wouldn't even be aware of his overall presence due to being 170+ meters away! Tsunade would get a perfectly routed arrow through her skull, and die. I'm sorry to admit this, but Kidōmaru completely outclasses Tsunade, a Mid/High Kage shinobi!​

A small hole in her head is easily regenerated. Tsunade herself claims that her jutsu

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, which includes the brain. Meanwhile, Tsunade will be leaping from tree to tree on the tree tops. Where the arrow came from will easily be seen if Tsunade is elevated above tree level so Kidomaru won't remain hidden. It is hard to pinpoint vitals of a person moving around both vertically and horizontally. Pinpointing a stationary Neji on ground isn't that great of a feat.

All in all, Tsunade takes this with low-mid difficulty.​

 

[RedRobin]

@Ice

• Kumo nenkin is
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  , its not gold, its golden color, yes. This guy doesnt secrete gold from his sweat. Lol
  
  

  Adjective "gold" means "of gold" - the real deal. "Golden" means "having the appearance of gold."

• No the brain doesnt regenerate like any other organ. The heart doesnt store information over time like the brain does, if the brain gets injured the flesh heals but information gets lost. This could mean you forget how to talk or move and so on.
  

 

[Rιver]

I agree that Katsuyu acid is ineffective but Katsuyu has another method of offence, which is absorbing Kidomaru. Once Kidomaru is absorbed, he'll be immobilized allowing Tsunade to finish him off or he suffocates to death. Also despite Katsuyu acid being countered by the gold armour, it is still useful to melt incoming webs.

The gold armour got destroyed by the

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. Don't say it was because of gentle fist because gentle fist was ineffective against it as it blocked the chakra (

You must be registered for see links

). Tsunade's punches were cracking ribcage susanoo which has tanked attacks far stronger than Kidomaru's gold armour so even if it softens the blow, Kidomaru will still get killed as he'll feel a great portion of the punch's power.


Tsunade is attentive to the most finite details such as an

You must be registered for see links

and the ability to

You must be registered for see links

while rusty. While the

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, all Tsunade has to do is punch the ground to take all of them out. Tsunade easily outlasts Kidomaru if he keeps this up consistently.


I already dealt with the first paragraph. Tsunade can keep punching the ground longer than spiders swarming Tsunade. An arrow which couldn't kill Neji isn't killing Tsunade. How would a head-shot do anything when the arrow leaves a

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which is effortlessly healed by Byakogou? Not to mention Tsunade will hear the arrow coming so she can move her head a few inches or punch the ground, changing its trajectory.

Nothing to say here.

Nothing to say here.

A small hole in her head is easily regenerated. Tsunade herself claims that her jutsu

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, which includes the brain. Meanwhile, Tsunade will be leaping from tree to tree on the tree tops. Where the arrow came from will easily be seen if Tsunade is elevated above tree level so Kidomaru won't remain hidden. It is hard to pinpoint vitals of a person moving around both vertically and horizontally. Pinpointing a stationary Neji on ground isn't that great of a feat.

All in all, Tsunade takes this with low-mid difficulty.

Since when has Byakugo regenerated when dead? You are aware that when she is shot in the head, she dies immediately? And when that happens it's way too late for recovery. Only reason she survived from other attacks is because they didn't grant her instantaneous death.

 

[Icelerate]

@Ice

• Kumo nenkin is
  You must be registered for see links
  , its not gold, its golden color, yes. This guy doesnt secrete gold from his sweat. Lol
  
  
  
• No the brain doesnt regenerate like any other organ. The heart doesnt store information over time like the brain does, if the brain gets injured the flesh heals but information gets lost. This could mean you forget how to talk or move and so on.
  

There are many instances in the manga where one ought to have lost information in the brain but didn't. Madara took so much head damage but he didn't lose any memory.

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Since when has Byakugo regenerated when dead? You are aware that when she is shot in the head, she dies immediately? And when that happens it's way too late for recovery. Only reason she survived from other attacks is because they didn't grant her instantaneous death.

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. That is contrary to what Byakugou does, let the user live through even fatal injuries. Madara received some

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but he never died.

Spoiler

Byakogou Sousou Saisei

For several years using the highest most precise chakra control, a fixed amount is stored in the Byakugou seal. The chakra is usually put to use to regenerate the body through the Ninjutsu technique "Sousou Saisei", the combination results in the ultimate regeneration Jutsu.

The seal was able to regenerate the body, despite Tsunade chakra quantity being less, than the enormous chakra quantity of Shodai Hokage (i'm pretty sure, but this the gist of the line, but this was especially tricky).

When Ninpo "Sousou Saisei" is used at the same time as "Byakugou no Jutsu", it becomes possible to use it (Sousou Saisei) over a long period of time. When ones life is effected by grave wounds pushed to the point where they'd normally die, ones body is instantly returned to an unwounded condition. Than it just talks about the rules of medical ninjutsu where broken with the completion of such a marvelous Ninjutsu as this.

Release the chakra stored in ones forehead. Wounds completely recover, while at the same time ones own power rises*, however cell division quickens, which shortens ones life span.

---------

*Note, the last line seems to indicate that the technique also increases ones power, besides regeneration, but i'm not a 100% on that line . Considering this is fairly key to how effective the Jutsu is, as if it increases power that explains a-lot about Tsunade and Sakura's performances/hype, it would be great if another translator went over it. It's the last line in the text bellow the picture of Tsunade recovering and Madara being punched (which would suggest i'm correct because the pics are highlighting regen and power, but I just don't want to call it and start a shit storm w/o being 100% sure).

 

[Rιver]

There are many instances in the manga where one ought to have lost information in the brain but didn't. Madara took so much head damage but he didn't lose any memory.

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. That is contrary to what Byakugou does, let the user live through even fatal injuries. Madara received some

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but he never died.

Spoiler

Byakogou Sousou Saisei

For several years using the highest most precise chakra control, a fixed amount is stored in the Byakugou seal. The chakra is usually put to use to regenerate the body through the Ninjutsu technique "Sousou Saisei", the combination results in the ultimate regeneration Jutsu.

The seal was able to regenerate the body, despite Tsunade chakra quantity being less, than the enormous chakra quantity of Shodai Hokage (i'm pretty sure, but this the gist of the line, but this was especially tricky).

When Ninpo "Sousou Saisei" is used at the same time as "Byakugou no Jutsu", it becomes possible to use it (Sousou Saisei) over a long period of time. When ones life is effected by grave wounds pushed to the point where they'd normally die, ones body is instantly returned to an unwounded condition. Than it just talks about the rules of medical ninjutsu where broken with the completion of such a marvelous Ninjutsu as this.

Release the chakra stored in ones forehead. Wounds completely recover, while at the same time ones own power rises*, however cell division quickens, which shortens ones life span.

---------

*Note, the last line seems to indicate that the technique also increases ones power, besides regeneration, but i'm not a 100% on that line . Considering this is fairly key to how effective the Jutsu is, as if it increases power that explains a-lot about Tsunade and Sakura's performances/hype, it would be great if another translator went over it. It's the last line in the text bellow the picture of Tsunade recovering and Madara being punched (which would suggest i'm correct because the pics are highlighting regen and power, but I just don't want to call it and start a shit storm w/o being 100% sure).

Are you serious right now? A normal human being dies immediately when shot in the brain, without a question. I'm pretty disappointed right now man.

Yeah, did you also know that Madara was a Juubi Jinchuriki? The guy literally got sliced in half and didn't care. And his brains weren't even affected. As you can see, his shell was just destroyed. Tsunade was on verge of death. That's the difference.

So apparently Tsunade is immortal in your opinion? Is this what we've come to? Jesus.

 

[RedRobin]

Are you serious right now? A normal human being dies immediately when shot in the brain, without a question. I'm pretty disappointed right now man.

Yeah, did you also know that Madara was a Juubi Jinchuriki? The guy literally got sliced in half and didn't care. And his brains weren't even affected. As you can see, his shell was just destroyed. Tsunade was on verge of death. That's the difference.

So apparently Tsunade is immortal in your opinion? Is this what we've come to? Jesus.

Brah even normal humans have survived things injuring their brains. People have survived head shots in real life. Of course they lost the ability to talk or move certain body parts but its happened.

Tsunade will not die as the injury will be healed but as I stated before information will be lost so she probably wont be able to battle again right at that moment. But she survives it.

 

[Rιver]

Brah even normal humans have survived things injuring their brains. People have survived head shots in real life. Of course they lost the ability to talk or move certain body parts but its happened.

Tsunade will not die as the injury will be healed but as I stated before information will be lost so she probably wont be able to battle again right at that moment. But she survives it.

We're not talking about Real Life Survival Stories. Some people have survived many things like plane crashes but does it mean you would survive that too? Think pessismist.

Oh my god... I can't believe I am debating this right now. Tsunade being immortal...

:|

Since when has manga ever indicated that she can heal herself while dead?

 

[Lord Tywin]

I don't know what's that hard to understand that if your brain is punched a hole through you're dead.

 

[RedRobin]

We're not talking about Real Life Survival Stories. Some people have survived many things like plane crashes but does it mean you would survive that too? Think pessismist.

Oh my god... I can't believe I am debating this right now. Tsunade being immortal...

:|

Since when has manga ever indicated that she can heal herself while dead?

Lol I mean do I have to list her feats again? Why are you surprised? This is Naruto, if anyone could survive a plane crash it would be a naruto character.

Byakugo pretty much makes her immortal, she stated herself as long as she has chakra her injuries get healed this would include brain injuries but as I stated just becuase the brain gets fixed doesnt mean it will work like it did before the injury.

 

[Unorthodox]

River owning shit

 

[RedRobin]

I don't know what's that hard to understand that if your brain is punched a hole through you're dead.

Same when you get cut in half but guess who survived that.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Same when you get cut in half but guess who survived that.

That's different. Handling being ripped in half has to do with pain tolerance, while getting your brain destroyed doesn't.

 

[Rιver]

Lol I mean do I have to list her feats again? Why are you surprised? This is Naruto, if anyone could survive a plane crash it would be a naruto character.

Byakugo pretty much makes her immortal, she stated herself as long as she has chakra her injuries get healed this would include brain injuries but as I stated just becuase the brain gets fixed doesnt mean it will work like it did before the injury.

What feats does she have while dead? I mean Tsunade hasn't died once isn't that the reason why she is still present?

Yeah except that no character has practically survived from a direct headshot in the entire manga besides Hidan. This is going south with you Tsunade fans.

 

[RedRobin]

That's different. Handling being ripped in half has to do with pain tolerance, while getting your brain destroyed doesn't.

No it doesnt. Your kidneys, stomach and all other organs fail as you bleed out. That has nothing to do with pain tolerance, you die when you get cut in half.

What feats does she have while dead? I mean Tsunade hasn't died once isn't that the reason why she is still present?

Yeah except that no character has practically survived from a direct headshot in the entire manga besides Hidan. This is going south with you Tsunade fans.

Byakugo doesnt work on Tsunade's brain activity. Its works on chakra, as long as there is chakra and injury happens the cells divide. Thats how it works.

This means a brain injury is not killing her.