Why? Also what is wrong with early pressure votes to figure out somebody's alignment? It is common meta on MU to start with a vote in the first few minutes to analyse how people react to it.
Ok its common meta in MU but maybe I'm not being clear enough. I'm ok with someone voting any player very early in the first DP but what I dislike the most about some of this attempt is that the player think they're doing some pressuring jobs on their target but the reality is they didn't do anything. Lets we check back;
As in reads?
I don't have as strong a town read on Waido as you do apparently, tho I don't have a bad feel for him at this point either.
LanMisa feels townie at this point.
As I feel that you do.
So after reading their conversations, what kind of pressuring being applied here? I dont see any pressure attempt from All_Red towards Eliphas here. If we want to talk about pressuring/pressing a player in this phase so far, look no further than how I pressured you on the subject of Cult. You answered it by saying;
"It was just a joke", "Why I would reveal the information if I owned said role".
So here I pressured you on some subject and you addressed the pressure. And I can accept the explanation that you gave to me.
But it not happening between All_Red and Eliphas. What was the subject that All_Red used as a pressure tool towards Eliphas???
The subject is not there. I tried to look for it but found nothing. If there something that I can use.
And then they turned their focus on Waindo. If All_Red actually suspecting Waindo, why voted for Eliphas.
That's the difference between you and me. I still can pressure player without early vote.
So you can see that, early vote of her served no purpose at all. From numbers of active player at that time, she chose Eliphas.
What is your plan for figuring him out? And what exactly makes you lean in either direction?
This post from Waindo piqued my interest. It can be interpreted both ways.
Wolf
~Its either he is happy that role claiming is forbidden so Wolves had nothing to worry about because TOWN couldn't claiming. If town broke the rule Modkilled/Roleblocked would be the punishment. This result is welcomed with open hand by Wolves.
Then paired it with his 'behavior' in this game so far, its quite fitting.
The other interpretation,
Townie
~Where I think he tried to ridicule that rules because he cant make any claim.
______________
But his behavior in this game makes it hard to read him as a townie
Can you elaborate on that? Do you think that his team told him to act like that in wolf chat?
As for Eliphas, if he really a wolf, his actions came from himself and not influenced by his teammates. That's how I felt.
That surprises me... I read this statement as completely null. It's the same as me saying that people should be careful since wolves may pocket others. In my opinion it doesn't really help town to state the obvious, which the bolded sentence is in my opinion. Much more helpful is actually finding them.
We have different play style and mindset. Your mindset was shaped by MU while my mindset is of free thinker. Someone that coming from there like to used many Mafia's abbreviations a lot in their game. Eventhough I know what it means and how to use it, I never actually used it a lot.
So cut that introduction,
Maybe I can see/feel what you couldn't see/feel. I approached every game differently but when I write something it should be detailed.
"It's the same as me saying that people should be careful since wolves may pocket others."
What you wrote above is the actual thing I trying to addressed when I said this,
"Open up yourself to every possibilities".
That's how I remind Townie that they shouldn't be two dimensional in their approach but be three dimensional.
Open up to possibility that;
Wolf could bussed their own team mate to hide their true identity.
Someone who helped townie to defeat all Mafia perfectly doesn't mean he/she is not a Serial Killer.
One player that you have investigated gives you 'innocent' result. But it could be a 'camouflage intel'. So investigator needs to be open to any possibility. Besides having that Intel, they also need to use their ability to read player. You may see a clear contrast between the behavior of that player and your investigation result.
people should be careful since wolves may pocket others
And I'm also curious as to what made @Mr.Lonely correct his post, since I see no mention of mafia being referred to as werewolves officially in this game? Though I know they can be used interchangeably (still doesn't explain the correction...)
Wonder if this is worth looking into semantically?
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It's 3 am, I'm tired. I missed it in the OP: "For flavour only in this game mafia members are named werewolves. with specification that this is the mafia faction."
Downplaying = lowering people's expectations of you, either for them to townread you for play you can make as either alignment or to give you passes for mistakes. If it was an honest assessment of your own play, understandable, but it was not. Misa claimed that their day 1 sucks because they tend to read power roles as mafia, except that shouldn't be an issue this game because everyone is a power role. That was misleading information about their meta.
Shading = casting suspicion on another player without actually pursuing them as a lead, in order to save them for a later pursuit (perhaps when they've become an easier target), or discredit what they've said so far under the possibility they're mafia. That is what Misa did, though they did not necessarily need to create doubt about my alignment for them to discredit my commentary of them. The manner in which he commented on my changing read of them suggested he found my progression unreasonable but did not actually accuse me of being mafia. This would have allowed others to see Misa's reasoning and potentially be swayed and scumlean/read me, all without Misa getting his hands dirty and attacking me directly. If their discrediting of how I came about the read on them was successful, it'd also prevent others from seeing eye to eye with me on Misa or at least trying to understand how I came about that read.
Not to mention they seem very eager to shift attention away from them, to the point of directly asking me for opinions on other players when I've already given them on some of the players they've listed as well as others. It suggests they'd like for me to spend my energy on other players aside from themselves, but is not actually interested in what I had to say about them. Should they respond to my current reads on others reasonably, I may reevaluate.
Downplaying = lowering people's expectations of you, either for them to townread you for play you can make as either alignment or to give you passes for mistakes. If it was an honest assessment of your own play, understandable, but it was not. Misa claimed that their day 1 sucks because they tend to read power roles as mafia, except that shouldn't be an issue this game because everyone is a power role. That was misleading information about their meta.
Maybe it was just a lack of understanding. What if he actually thought that this game had roles that were not power roles, thus posted that. If he new that do you think he would make such noob mistake? If he was scum what would scum get from making such a noob mistake?
Shading = casting suspicion on another player without actually pursuing them as a lead, in order to save them for a later pursuit (perhaps when they've become an easier target), or discredit what they've said so far under the possibility they're mafia. That is what Misa did, though they did not necessarily need to create doubt about my alignment for them to discredit my commentary of them. The manner in which he commented on my changing read of them suggested he found my progression unreasonable but did not actually accuse me of being mafia. This would have allowed others to see Misa's reasoning and potentially be swayed and scumlean/read me, all without Misa getting his hands dirty and attacking me directly. If their discrediting of how I came about the read on them was successful, it'd also prevent others from seeing eye to eye with me on Misa or at least trying to understand how I came about that read.
Maybe because he actually thought you were town. Looking at his post it doesn't look like they were trying to prove your mafia but just discredit your statement like you said.
Not to mention they seem very eager to shift attention away from them, to the point of directly asking me for opinions on other players when I've already given them on some of the players they've listed as well as others. It suggests they'd like for me to spend my energy on other players aside from themselves, but is not actually interested in what I had to say about them. Should they respond to my current reads on others reasonably, I may reevaluate.
This can be seen as either mafia or town. It looks to me like they just wanted to get that conversation over with since they figured they coudn't change your mind. Better to make overall game progress then debate back and forth over a decided mind.
Jokes aside, if you think that me making a light hearted joke makes me suspect I gladly refer to the fact that I am one of the few people actively engaging others, trying to get a feel for them, figuring out their agendas and progressing the game. I'm not lost in flower talks, I am not trying to talk about angleshooting or criticise players for actually playing the game like, god forbid!, voting other players! (gasp!) I do consider myself having quite a large body of work already and I'd rather you don't reduce me to one word I used so far. It's a rather level approach.
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This is very you and very NAI. I'll not read you on your first ten posts or so. You can keep up for that long as either alignment. It's the later phases when the pressure rises that you drop as a wolf.
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Enough side tracking. RE, I hope that I am not the only person who you have an opinion on. What about your other reads?
I'm still confused on the whole "Cult" joke bit, why did you start it up in the first place? I will say I like your attitude so far
I sort of want to know why it's NAI for them. They mentioned Activity is AI for them, and I'd like to get a meta analysis from you and possibly Terror for you as well.
Are you referring to the cult joke? Did you think it was serious to start? If so why do you think someone who would actually be cult do such a thing? WIFOM? Why mention it in the first place if so?
Tbh @LanMisa This is not me trying to suspect you but just trying to dig 'something' out from our conversation. And also from your future actions and interactions.
There's other player that really pique my interest like Waindo who is trying to 'established' himself as a town. And like someone has said "it feels forced".
But first I want to see whether Cult exist or not in this game. Usually any conversion would be announced.
The "feels forced" was Duk3star, and it was about the post Waindo made in regards to Lan and I talking about a past game on MU. To me it felt light hearted, and I'd like to know why you yourself feel like it was forced as Duk3star didn't explain it themself. Just feels like you are sheeping his mindset and that feels odd.
1.) Do you not like people who pressure vote? It's a valuable asset to scum hunting... why is that?
2.) Then you say you like their posts... Ok?
3.) the 50/50 situation of... what? Is that another way of saying "Null"?
4.) another feels. While I also gut read as much as the next person, you tend to do it a lot. Not hating on it, just making an observation
5.) How do you expect a completely new person to Forum Mafia (and maybe just mafia in general) to play? Do you expect them to 100% understand what's going on and do what usually takes most players a few games to get a feel for? I'm not defending them, I'm just wondering why you would doubt them based on their newness, just feels like you're hating on the LHF, which is what scum like to do.
6.) What are your feelings on Mr.Lonely talking about not liking to contribute when others don't contribute?
7.) Bold one? What?
8.) What intention do you think SleepingTerror has then?
Ok in my opinion this game could be a cult game. You probably have one Drac with two werewolves, with Draculaura being able to convert maybe one or two players.
My reads on players so far
So far the players that have posted all seem to be town I'm not picking up anything Wolfy with them.
Lan has made a joke about a cult and now someone is saying they think it's a cult game. I will say your mechanical talk on the setup is rather interesting and I never thought about it that way. hmmm.
Actually in a no claim - mind game like this it should be in your interest if you're town to go the extra mile and try to decypher what I was trying to say. And you are not doing that. You are digressing, how did you put it 'engaging players'. From what I see here you're fishing out townies and presenting yourself as scum on a silver platter to us.
So are you trying to role claim without role claiming? Is this a normal Role madness behavour? I actually should say that this is my first role madness game, lol. So I'm not used to the specifics on how it should be played.
Is your vote on Lan because they're questioning your lack of engaging players? Do you find that scummy behavour (because that's strange). Or is it the player themselves?
Wait so why are you voting Lan, I read your paragrah and got that you said she was down playing herslef too much, could you explain why thats a problem?
You also stated that she was shady on your post? Please clearify
Okay so heres my reads so far; everyone I dont post is town
Waindo: posts much, says little. What Im saying is that he has done many posts none that actually help the game thus far. All either about himself or about flowers.
Sleeping: Her stance on Lan seems a little awkward, maybe if she clarified I wouldn't have this problem
Poi Son and Ansa: they both seem to be in something together, the feels I get from them isn't good.
I am sort of on the fence about the Waindo zen-riddle myself. They could actually be a strong town role that is trying to convey it OR scum trying to use it as an excuse not to actively participate. It's 50/50 as of now and depending on how they take the rest of the day, I'd be willing to agree on the latter part.
Agreed on your thoughts on Sleeping, I want them both to do a meta analysis as I can't really follow it without properly knowing it as they are using it to read each other it would seem.
Okay, buddy, if you don't feel like playing and finding scum I won't bother with you any longer. You can revel in your mastery of how to claim without rulebreaking. I'll use my time to actually catch the scum team. I'm just wasting my time on you.
If you are fine with relying on your role to win the game, then that's up to you. Just don't come crying afterwards that the game was too hard when scum wins and you didn't even try to figure out the other players.
While I agree it's a bit strange, it feels like you are giving up and marking them off as "town" because of it. I could be reading this incorrectly but It's sort of the feels I got from reading it.
Tbh @LanMisa This is not me trying to suspect you but just trying to dig 'something' out from our conversation. And also from your future actions and interactions.
There's other player that really pique my interest like Waindo who is trying to 'established' himself as a town. And like someone has said "it feels forced".
But first I want to see whether Cult exist or not in this game. Usually any conversion would be announced.
Ok in my opinion this game could be a cult game. You probably have one Drac with two werewolves, with Draculaura being able to convert maybe one or two players.
My reads on players so far
So far the players that have posted all seem to be town I'm not picking up anything Wolfy with them.
So after reading their conversations, what kind of pressuring being applied here? I dont see any pressure attempt from All_Red towards Eliphas here. If we want to talk about pressuring/pressing a player in this phase so far, look no further than how I pressured you on the subject of Cult. You answered it by saying;
"It was just a joke", "Why I would reveal the information if I owned said role".
So here I pressured you on some subject and you addressed the pressure. And I can accept the explanation that you gave to me.
But it not happening between All_Red and Eliphas. What was the subject that All_Red used as a pressure tool towards Eliphas???
The subject is not there. I tried to look for it but found nothing. If there something that I can use.
And then they turned their focus on Waindo. If All_Red actually suspecting Waindo, why voted for Eliphas.
That's the difference between you and me. I still can pressure player without early vote.
So you can see that, early vote of her served no purpose at all. From numbers of active player at that time, she chose Eliphas.
Yea, your on the mark, I did sus Wain. Depite clearly stating that I saw him as town, I was curious about his standing, because his post really said otherwise. So I asked around to see what everyone else saw in Wain. The majority of statements where the same: he does not lean town. So I switched my vote from Eli. I voted Eli just to see his net posts. Nothing unexpected was posted.
Maybe it was just a lack of understanding. What if he actually thought that this game had roles that were not power roles, thus posted that. If he new that do you think he would make such noob mistake? If he was scum what would scum get from making such a noob mistake?
Then that's something he can address himself. Instead he's ignored that part of my reasoning. Why make guesses as to his thought process though? I think it'd be careless to assume his motive is pure without more information.
Maybe because he actually thought you were town. Looking at his post it doesn't look like they were trying to prove your mafia but just discredit your statement like you said.
He clearly did though, in his following post. He found it odd, and then labeled it as something people scumread me for. He backed off and found me townie, but not before finding me suspicious.
This can be seen as either mafia or town. It looks to me like they just wanted to get that conversation over with since they figured they coudn't change your mind. Better to make overall game progress then debate back and forth over a decided mind.
That's a fair point, but why did he not comment on the reads I already gave? It was in the same post where I commented on him. He said he "hoped" that I had other reads on other players, but I did already, implying he had not properly read my posts. What is the point of asking me for reads if he can't bother to address the ones I've already given on other players?
Okay, buddy, if you don't feel like playing and finding scum I won't bother with you any longer. You can revel in your mastery of how to claim without rulebreaking. I'll use my time to actually catch the scum team. I'm just wasting my time on you.
If you are fine with relying on your role to win the game, then that's up to you. Just don't come crying afterwards that the game was too hard when scum wins and you didn't even try to figure out the other players.
But the flavor is listed in the OP, for everyone to see? How is revealing information that's available to everyone lack of care of how they come off?Then that's something he can address himself. Instead he's ignored that part of my reasoning. Why make guesses as to his thought process though? I think it'd be careless to assume his motive is pure without more information.He clearly did though, in his following post. He found it odd, and then labeled it as something people scumread me for. He backed off and found me townie, but not before finding me suspicious.That's a fair point, but why did he not comment on the reads I already gave? It was in the same post where I commented on him. He said he "hoped" that I had other reads on other players, but I did already, implying he had not properly read my posts. What is the point of asking me for reads if he can't bother to address the ones I've already given on other players?
Wolves usually don't talk about themselves. Its not about the OP or flavor. Its wolves natural tendacy to distance themselves from what they are. If your a wolf your more self conscious of your actions and what may come off as scummy.
Hes not AtEing for the purpose of getting town read. His frustration feels like he really wants to solve the game snd this person is getting in the way of his ability to solve.
Wolves usually don't talk about themselves. Its not about the OP or flavor. Its wolves natural tendacy to distance themselves from what they are. If your a wolf your more self conscious of your actions and what may come off as scummy.
Hes not AtEing for the purpose of getting town read. His frustration feels like he really wants to solve the game snd this person is getting in the way of his ability to solve.
T = Town
TL = Town Lean
N = Null
ML = Mafia Lean
M = Mafia
1. Ansatsuken ML
2. Poison chan T
3. Odd N
4. Lady Coffee N
5. Mr.Lonely TL
6. Akumatsu N
7. Ryu Kishi TL
8. LanMisa T
9. All_Red TL
10. Junegirl_19 N
12. Eliphas TL
13. Rei N
14. AIVION TL
15. SleepingTerror ML
16. Waindo M
17. Konno N
18. TheLukundo TL
So it's the mere act of bringing it up. I don't entirely agree but I sorta see your point.I'll note this. It feels more condescending than anything though.
