Double standards.. "understanding"

[KingHashirama]

This whole double standard with the fans and that sometimes shown by the antagonists... I will never get it.

Here is what i got from all the threads that have focused on Naruto/Sasuke, Hashirama/Madara:

- Hashirama couldn't understand Madara... thats why their relationship failed.

- Naruto can't understand Sasuke.. thats why its not working.​

But what I don't get is... why do Madara and Sasuke get the exception treatment in regards to understanding one another?

In depth:

Ok Hashirama couldn't understand Madara.. but did Madara understand Hashirama? If he did he would've gone with what Hashirama said. So do people acknowledge that Naruto/hAshirama are the adults and Madara/sasuke are the kids? Or its just of bias, because Hashirama and Naruto don't b*tch and moan about their hardships?


I have noticed that the characters who usually b*tch and moan about their past get more sympathy , rather than the people who move on but could easily have had a worst past. Like "ohhh naruto smiles and goofs around all the time" SO WHAT?

There is a fact that you can see in alot of orphan kids.. there are many who will try to mask their feelings. Because they don't want to be hurt. And Naruto uzumaki is one of those. Sasuke is one of those kids who you can give anything in the world to, but will still be stuck on the fact he got his pencil taken away.

CONCLUSION:

So what do you guys think of these double standards?

Have you seen them around also? Have you seen them applied to other protagonist/antagonist duo?


I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED FOR NARUTO TO SAY IT RIGHT IN FRONT SASUKE'S FACE:

" DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE GONE THROUGH?!"

​

 

[Raekwon26]

There are no double standards.

No one asked Hashirama to understand Madara. He CHOSE to try. Same with Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[solo king]

Understanding and agreeing are two different things

 

[KingHashirama]

Understanding and agreeing are two different things

Never claimed they were the same.

There are no double standards.

No one asked Hashirama to understand Madara. He CHOSE to try. Same with Naruto and Sasuke.

Hashirama never CHOSE to try and Understand Madara.. he followed Madara's own advice, which was that for peace ninja should understand each other. And then Madara the hypocrite changed his words..

Naruto is trying.. nice But is Sasuke? You can only B*tch and Moan about someone else not being able to understand you, if you have tried to understand them. Otherwise, you are just a naive child who got their pencil taken away and can't grow up.

 

[NukaCola]

In the last chapter Sasuke said that they understand each other.

 

[KisuneUchiha]

Sasuke does understand Naruto, hence why he feels such a strong bond with him.
But, in the path Sasuke wants to go down, he needs to get rid of that bond to progress, whether he wants to sever it or not.
Sasuke does not agree with Naruto, Naruto's way is to idealistic, and supported massively on hopes and dreams

 

[KingHashirama]

In the last chapter Sasuke said that they understand each other.

^ Talking of the past. And the fan mentality that i have noticed regarding the topic.

Sasuke does understand Naruto, hence why he feels such a strong bond with him.
But, in the path Sasuke wants to go down, he needs to get rid of that bond to progress, whether he wants to sever it or not.
Sasuke does not agree with Naruto, Naruto's way is to idealistic, and supported massively on hopes and dreams

Its funny, that Naruto is the realist.... while Sasuke is the idealist..

 

[Tennis Robot]

I think it's all in your head tbh.

 

[Raekwon26]

Hashirama never CHOSE to try and Understand Madara.. he followed Madara's own advice, which was that for peace ninja should understand each other. And then Madara the hypocrite changed his words..

Naruto is trying.. nice But is Sasuke? You can only B*tch and Moan about someone else not being able to understand you, if you have tried to understand them. Otherwise, you are just a naive child who got their pencil taken away and can't grow up.

That is completely false and it also doesn't coincide with the thread at all.

Hashirama was not coerced to listen to what Madara said, it was his decision to listen and take it on board, same with Madara listening to Hashirama. If they never listened to each other, the village would have never been formed.
The change occurred when Madara read the Uchiha tablet and had a new ideal and way to achieve his version of peace.

No one told Hashirama that he had to understand Madara and his new ideals. It was Hashirama himself that tried on his OWN beliefs and ideals, something that him and Madara shared and Madara chose not to follow that way of thinking. It was Hashirama's decision.

Sasuke and Naruto? How many times has Sasuke said he doesn't want to understand Naruto so Naruto shouldn't try to understand him? Has anyone come up to Naruto and forced him to try and understand Sasuke? NO. Naruto is doing this by choice.

There is no double standard at all.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Understanding doesn't equal agreement. I understand why Walter White started cooking meth, doesn't mean I'm gonna go steal methlemine and buy an RV.

 

[Tennis Robot]

Understanding doesn't equal agreement. I understand why Walter White started cooking meth, doesn't mean I'm gonna go steal methlemine and buy an RV.

You're right. Understanding doesn't equal agreement. It equals forgiveness.

 

[Mithril]

I agree with alot of this.
I hate all that bs sasuke talks about his way.
There is no good in killing the innocent. And the "Ninja-society" the way we´ve seen it in the manga did not start with the generation of kage he now wants to kill.
And on top of that he says that he wants to kill Naruto, which would make him nothing more than a murderer once again.
Him trying to become the "center of all hate" is nowhere near noble and will clearly not lead to peace , but to him beeing a tyrant.
wtf i could rant about this all day.. this manga has become so ridiculous

 

[Punk Hazard]

Never claimed they were the same.



Hashirama never CHOSE to try and Understand Madara.. he followed Madara's own advice, which was that for peace ninja should understand each other. And then Madara the hypocrite changed his words..

Naruto is trying.. nice But is Sasuke? You can only B*tch and Moan about someone else not being able to understand you, if you have tried to understand them. Otherwise, you are just a naive child who got their pencil taken away and can't grow up.

^ Talking of the past. And the fan mentality that i have noticed regarding the topic.


Its funny, that Naruto is the realist.... while Sasuke is the idealist..

Yes you did, when you said that ¨Ïf Madara understood Hashirama, he would have done what he wanted." That was either you blurring the line between understanding and agreeing, or letting your personal feelings towards Hashirama bias you, because the manga indicates his way of doing things are also wrong. Naruto and Sasuke will be the solution to the problem since it's fiction in some way or another, and Hashirama commented that ¨Naruto you're different from me" and as of yet, many have mentioned Naruto as the one who will signal change in the world, no one has yet to say ¨Hashirama had the right idea" to fixing the entire world.

Naruto is not a realist. Naruto allows his emotions and personal feelings to greatly affect his judgement. Naruto is essentially ¨My way is the right way!¨, if he's a leader and another leader of a different country is doing things the way he supports, he won't compromise, he's gonna try and make them see things his way exactly. Naruto believes the world will simply walk in hand with each other and be friends because he made friends, it's just not so.

Is Sasuke trying? Now you're selectively remembering what's in the manga.

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¨I know your thoughts and feelings.¨
Not I knew your thoughts and feelings, not I know what you're thoughts and feelings were, but I know your thoughts and feelings. Sasuke isn't trying to understand Naruto, he DOES understand Naruto.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You're right. Understanding doesn't equal agreement. It equals forgiveness.

I understand why Hitler did the Holocaust as well. Should we forgive him?

And what he is forgiving Naruto for? They're forgiving each other for having different ideals, they're forgiving each other for being alone in different ways?

I agree with alot of this.
I hate all that bs sasuke talks about his way.
There is no good in killing the innocent. And the "Ninja-society" the way we´ve seen it in the manga did not start with the generation of kage he now wants to kill.
And on top of that he says that he wants to kill Naruto, which would make him nothing more than a murderer once again.
Him trying to become the "center of all hate" is nowhere near noble and will clearly not lead to peace , but to him beeing a tyrant.
wtf i could rant about this all day.. this manga has become so ridiculous

Noble? So, for you, it's better to look noble with what you're doing, rather than doing what's efficient? If this plan works, is it bad because it looks less cool and isn't as nice as a plan that would fail?

 

[Tennis Robot]

I understand why Hitler did the Holocaust as well. Should we forgive him?

And what he is forgiving Naruto for? They're forgiving each other for having different ideals, they're forgiving each other for being alone in different ways?


Noble? So, for you, it's better to look noble with what you're doing, rather than doing what's efficient? If this plan works, is it bad because it looks less cool and isn't as nice as a plan that would fail?

If you can't forgive someone, then you don't fully understand them. In fact, I should have said that understanding leads to love. That's what it really is in the end. And Sasuke does love Naruto.

 

[TrollKing]

That's a very stupid question to ask sasky

Naruto: Do you understand what I think?!!!!

Sasuke: I don't give a crap what you think

Naruto: Do you know what I been through???!!!

Sasuke: I don't care what you been through

Sakura Chan: Do you know how much I love you?!!!!

Sasuke: I don't care about you to the slightest

 

[-Spoiler-]

Naruto is not a realist. Naruto allows his emotions and personal feelings to greatly affect his judgement. Naruto is essentially ¨My way is the right way!¨

Funny part of this you can just swap Naruto's name for Sasuke's and it fits his demeanor, but back to the point when did he try to force his way onto people? because that's actually wrong when he enter the war he said he would do it by himself yet he listen to Itachi advice and didn't bother trying to do everything alone, he accepted help.

 

[Punk Hazard]

If you can't forgive someone, then you don't fully understand them. In fact, I should have said that understanding leads to love. That's what it really is in the end. And Sasuke does love Naruto.

I don't know what hippy feel-good drivel this is, but its not true. The real world doesn't work that way, and neither does fiction.

Funny part of this you can just swap Naruto's name for Sasuke's and it fits his demeanor, but back to the point when did he try to force his way onto people? because that's actually wrong when he enter the war he said he would do it by himself yet he listen to Itachi advice and didn't bother trying to do everything alone, he accepted help.

And? I never said the same can't apply to Sasuke. It's a flaw in both characters. Naruto listens to ideals and principles that convenient his already existing on. Naruto is not an open-minded individual. Madara, Nagato, Obito, all made good points in their arguments towards the world, as wrong as their arguments may have been overall, and they were completely dismissed by Naruto just because he didn't like them. That's not realism.

 

[Tennis Robot]

I don't know what hippy feel-good drivel this is, but its not true. The real world doesn't work that way, and neither does fiction.


And? I never said the same can't apply to Sasuke. It's a flaw in both characters. Naruto listens to ideals and principles that convenient his already existing on. Naruto is not an open-minded individual. Madara, Nagato, Obito, all made good points in their arguments towards the world, as wrong as their arguments may have been overall, and they were completely dismissed by Naruto just because he didn't like them. That's not realism.

I have never seen it proven wrong. I'm not sure if you know exactly what it means to fully understand someone. You can tell me I'm full of shit if you want to (maybe I am). I am just relaying information that I believe to be true based on what I have learned.

 

[-Spoiler-]

And? I never said the same can't apply to Sasuke. It's a flaw in both characters. Naruto listens to ideals and principles that convenient his already existing on. Naruto is not an open-minded individual. Madara, Nagato, Obito, all made good points in their arguments towards the world, as wrong as their arguments may have been overall, and they were completely dismissed by Naruto just because he didn't like them. That's not realism.

He dismissed their methods, but he never denied that the world needs to be changed.
Peace through Fear and lack of free will isn't peace at all.