Double Rinnegan SM Madara vs Current Sasuke

[Blunt]

Hmm.. Fair enough, in a restricted match-up, Madara wins.

Agreed man, if PS was unrestricted for both then Madara would get Curbstomped by Sasuke. The gap in power really becomes apparent after Sasuke whips out PS.

I just have to point out that Double Rinnegan Madara is a true beast. People overlook this because his JJ form was getting "wrecked" which he wasn't, he was actually keeping up for the most part, he just couldn't pull it off with a single Limbo clone or without PS.

To be honest, an unrestricted JJ Double Rinnegan Shinju Madara would have defeated Naruto and Sasuke, but that's an entirely different fight, so I won't get into that.

 

[Apêx1]

Agreed man, if PS was unrestricted for both then Madara would get Curbstomped by Sasuke. The gap in power really becomes apparent after Sasuke whips out PS.

I just have to point out that Double Rinnegan Madara is a true beast. People overlook this because his JJ form was getting "wrecked" which he wasn't, he was actually keeping up for the most part, he just couldn't pull it off with a single Limbo clone or without PS.

To be honest, an unrestricted JJ Double Rinnegan Shinju Madara would have defeated Naruto and Sasuke, but that's an entirely different fight, so I won't get into that.

I agree, Lol.

Yea, I realise he's pretty underrated on the base, but his fanbase usually don't do him justice, most of them are inactive or claim he is above Kaguya and is on some Hagromo level. At least I know one active Madara fan that knows his shit now.

And yea, Double Rinnegan Madara would've started spanking the two of them around. Kaguya should've been doing that too with the least of difficulties.. but dat Kishi nerfs every villain.

 

[Blunt]

I agree, Lol.

Yea, I realise he's pretty underrated on the base, but his fanbase usually don't do him justice, most of them are inactive or claim he is above Kaguya and is on some Hagromo level. At least I know one active Madara fan that knows his shit now.

And yea, Double Rinnegan Madara would've started spanking the two of them around. Kaguya should've been doing that too with the least of difficulties.. but dat Kishi nerfs every villain.

Lol, I'm saying, people think Madara is on Hagoromo's level, but disregard his feats, Madara isn't at his level. Kaguya isn't even debatable, she'd stomp anyone with hardly any trouble unrestricted or restricted in a 1v1. Hell, Kaguya's excuse for not teleporting to the ice dimension was because Sasuke had Amaterasu, I'm pretty sure last time it took Sasuke a good few seconds to break the ice, like tf? Lol. Kaguya and Madara should have won those fights very comfortably, but like you said, them nerfs are everywhere.

 

[Unorthodox]

Agreed man, if PS was unrestricted for both then Madara would get Curbstomped by Sasuke. The gap in power really becomes apparent after Sasuke whips out PS.

I just have to point out that Double Rinnegan Madara is a true beast. People overlook this because his JJ form was getting "wrecked" which he wasn't, he was actually keeping up for the most part, he just couldn't pull it off with a single Limbo clone or without PS.

To be honest, an unrestricted JJ Double Rinnegan Shinju Madara would have defeated Naruto and Sasuke, but that's an entirely different fight, so I won't get into that.

Sasuke having ps restricted doesnt change anything he still stomps all over Madara. also talk about unrestrictions Sasuke & Nardo would still wreck that Madara

Madara should have won those fights very comfortably,

Not even close

@Madararules ill excuse your baseless assumptions of a post

 

[Benjamin King]

The wank is real. Your entire premise is based around Madara being equivalent to non-Jin Hagromo, which is wrong. Madara's SM is not Rikudo's Senjutsu, it is Hashirama's watered down version of Ashura's SM. Big difference. Madara doesn't have Rikudo's chakra in the first place. He has a heavily watered down version due to the genetic variation that occurs between each new generation. Genes change, chakra is passed down, but each time it is done, it is further and further away from how Hagromo's actually was, due to the randomness of genetic inheritance. Hence, Madara doesn't have Rikudo's senjutsu nor does he have Rikudo's chakra. He simply has the Rinnegan, a watered down SM and Rikudo's heavily watered down version, no more, no less. On the other hand, Sasuke and Naruto have a first hand version of Rikudo's chakra, meaning it wasn't watered down at all. Only because it is the Yin part doesn't mean it isn't above Madara because; 1. Rikudo's chakra is similar to senjutsu in one way or another, Sasuke simply doesn't gain the sensing and regeneration SM grants. 2. Sasuke gains a hybrid Rinnegan, which when combined with Sasuke's other 3T eye, adds up to 9T, thus Sasuke has the Third eye spread upon 2 eyes. 3. Sasuke's' speed is vastly superior to non-Shinju Madara's, if Jin Madara was casually being blitzed by Naruto and Shinju Madara was only slightly above Sasuke in speed.
Facts:
1. SM Rinnegan Madara is much much slower than Sasuke.
2. SM RInnegan Madara has slower reaction speeds to Jin Madara, who couldn't react to swap.
3. Sasuke's chakra is significantly more potent than watered down Madara's chakra.
4. More potent chakra means he can use a more powerful PS. We already saw Madara's PS, by feats it is on a much lower level (further emphasising on the fact his chakra is much less potent due to genetic variation).
5. Sasuke can coat PS with Enton to make limbo's shit themselves.

@Underlined, clearly you don't know what adaptation and evolution of an organism is. Do you know what adaptation or evolution is? It's when an organism adapts depending on the nature they live in. Now, turn this biological fact into a Chakra term; this is what you get:

No matter how many times you try to deny, Indra's Chakra and Ashura's Chakra have kept on adapting and evolving inside Madara for years. When Madara took Hashirama's cells (Ashura's Chakra), he was already young. When he awoke the Rinnegan, he was extremely old. Now, between the time-span of the two events, the Chakra of the two brothers must have kept on adapting and evolving in nature, quality and quantity in order to reach Hagoromo's Chakra. Otherwise, it wouldn't have took Madara almost his entire life to awake the Doujutsu compared to Sasuke, who was given the original Chakra, whereas Madara needed to adapt to the original Chakra.

The fact of the matter is the Chakra of Rikudou's inside Madara was so much large, that it ended up giving him the same Rinnegan as Hagoromo compared to Sasuke. And as Hagoromo said, Madara has his Chakra and its power:

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That's not how SM works. Senjutsu = Physical energy + Spiritual energy. Madara's physical energy (Ashura) + Madara's spiritual energy (Indra's) + Senjutsu = Rikudou Senjutsu.

@Bold, argued before and disproved. Fan-fic theories don't coincide with the manga.
@Italic, countered above.

 

[Apêx1]

@Underlined, clearly you don't know what adaptation and evolution of an organism is. Do you know what adaptation or evolution is? It's when an organism adapts depending on the nature they live in. Now, turn this biological fact into a Chakra term; this is what you get:

No matter how many times you try to deny, Indra's Chakra and Ashura's Chakra have kept on adapting and evolving inside Madara for years. When Madara took Hashirama's cells (Ashura's Chakra), he was already young. When he awoke the Rinnegan, he was extremely old. Now, between the time-span of the two events, the Chakra of the two brothers must have kept on adapting and evolving in nature, quality and quantity in order to reach Hagoromo's Chakra. Otherwise, it wouldn't have took Madara almost his entire life to awake the Doujutsu compared to Sasuke, who was given the original Chakra, whereas Madara needed to adapt to the original Chakra.

The fact of the matter is the Chakra of Rikudou's inside Madara was so much large, that it ended up giving him the same Rinnegan as Hagoromo compared to Sasuke. And as Hagoromo said, Madara has his Chakra and its power:

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That's not how SM works. Senjutsu = Physical energy + Spiritual energy. Madara's physical energy (Ashura) + Madara's spiritual energy (Indra's) + Senjutsu = Rikudou Senjutsu.

@Bold, argued before and disproved. Fan-fic theories don't coincide with the manga.
@Italic, countered above.

This guy.. You clearly fail to understand Evolution involves Natural selection, which involves randomness of genes, which suggests Genetic variation. If Evolution was an ongoing thing on NV, then all of Hagromo's kids and their predecessors would have been stronger than him, but that is not the case. The fact remains that Hagromo is the absolute form of evolution, and every time he passes on his genes, genetic variation occurs which drives each generation further and further away from his own genes. The further you are from Hagromo's genes, the less connection you have to him.

And Lol at your lack of understanding of evolution in bold. Evolution doesn't occur in such a small time frame, Madara wouldn't even notice a 0.000000000000001% change, Evolution takes many thousands of years+. By your logic, once I'm 70 my health should have improved, but that's definitely not the case. The only thing that would've changed was the time it took for Ashura and Indra's DNA's to fuse or have a fruitful reaction. Nothing implies it would be instant, nor is their any reason for his own chakra quantity and quality to increase while attached to the Gedo.

And that's my point. Madara's watered down physical and spiritual energy=Watered down Rikudo's Senjutsu. So your attempt to counter my genetic variation with the theory of evolution, which directly links with genetic variation, is laughable as you are creating a paradox between my biologically proven points and your misconceptions of Evolution.

 

[lanakui8]

How? When five Limbo clones are protecting him that can cross 75m+ near instantly and have the physical power to knock 9 Bijuu on their ass simultaneously and casually (That was only one).

because sasuke blitzed juubi jin madara and narutoʻs shadow clones took on 2 eyeʻd juubi jin madaraʻs limbos for over a chapter using nothing but taijutsu. Non juubi jin madaraʻs limbos are complete fodder to sasuke.

 

[KidGamer65]

Limbo wank is too strong. Madara gets raped in both scenarios, even if you restrict Perfect Susanoo for Sasuke.

-Madara's clones=Madara when it comes to physical capabilities.

-Sasuke blitzed Madara with his Rinne Shift twice.

-Madara got chopped in half by Chidori Katana in his JJ Form

Thus Madara's Limbo clones get raped, or he teleports straight to Madara and finishes him in one stroke, as he won't be reacting any time soon.

His Armored Susanoo or Complete Susanoo won't be getting tossed around by Limbo clones.

1. Sasuke can see them.

2. In his EMS form he dealt out sword slashes that Juubito couldn't outright dodge. Slower SM Madara's clones aren't dodging them either.

So the Limbo charge at him, and he cuts them up.

 

[Blunt]

because sasuke blitzed juubi jin madara and narutoʻs shadow clones took on 2 eyeʻd juubi jin madaraʻs limbos for over a chapter using nothing but taijutsu. Non juubi jin madaraʻs limbos are complete fodder to sasuke.

There has been no difference in physical ability between Juubi Jin Madara and SM Rinnegan Madara's Limbo going by feats, and Naruto is the one who kept up with Limbo for the most part, Sasuke's attempt at it, he got knocked back effortlessly. Sasuke used a Chidori to help seal, and that is about it.

Logically the Limbo should be stronger, but they haven't shown anything to big enough to solidify this.

-Sasuke blitzed Madara with his Rinne Shift twice.

-Madara got chopped in half by Chidori Katana in his JJ Form

1. While Madara can't prevent this in most cases, with full intel he can pull it off.

2. Obito also stuck his hand inside Madaraʻs chest effortlessly.

Thus Madara's Limbo clones get raped, or he teleports straight to Madara and finishes him in one stroke, as he won't be reacting any time soon.

Madara has full intel, he simply goes on the defensive with one/two clones, sends the rest out to hold back Sasuke temporarily, casts Jukai Koutan to merge with his Mokuton and Flower Tree World in a different area, and or he uses CT afterward.

His Armored Susanoo or Complete Susanoo won't be getting tossed around by Limbo clones.

Why? Boosted by Rikudo's chakra or not, it's still not as heavy as a Biju, and you already know what one clone is capable of. PS is a different story

1. Sasuke can see them.

2. In his EMS form he dealt out sword slashes that Juubito couldn't outright dodge. Slower SM Madara's clones aren't dodging them either.

1. Can see them, but can't consistently dodge them without teleportation.

2. Based on what is Limbo slower than Juubito, Limbo has always been activated right near the user, it has never magically appeared elsewhere. If it can cross around 100m instantly and do all that, I don't see Juubito being much faster, if at all.

So the Limbo charge at him, and he cuts them up

Limbo serve as a distraction, Madara casts CT and it's game over from that point, not a single thing in Sasuke's arsenal is dealing with it, not when PS is restricted.

 

[Benjamin King]

This guy.. You clearly fail to understand Evolution involves Natural selection, which involves randomness of genes, which suggests Genetic variation. If Evolution was an ongoing thing on NV, then all of Hagromo's kids and their predecessors would have been stronger than him, but that is not the case. The fact remains that Hagromo is the absolute form of evolution, and every time he passes on his genes, genetic variation occurs which drives each generation further and further away from his own genes. The further you are from Hagromo's genes, the less connection you have to him.

And Lol at your lack of understanding of evolution in bold. Evolution doesn't occur in such a small time frame, Madara wouldn't even notice a 0.000000000000001% change, Evolution takes many thousands of years+. By your logic, once I'm 70 my health should have improved, but that's definitely not the case. The only thing that would've changed was the time it took for Ashura and Indra's DNA's to fuse or have a fruitful reaction. Nothing implies it would be instant, nor is their any reason for his own chakra quantity and quality to increase while attached to the Gedo.

And that's my point. Madara's watered down physical and spiritual energy=Watered down Rikudo's Senjutsu. So your attempt to counter my genetic variation with the theory of evolution, which directly links with genetic variation, is laughable as you are creating a paradox between my biologically proven points and your misconceptions of Evolution.

You only picked evolution, and ignored the adaptation of the environment of Madara's Chakra getting mixed up by two sources of Chakra. Try not to be a cherry picker, Apex.

When Kabuto started to merge other people's Chakra with his own, his signature changed as noted by Karin. [

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] What does that mean? Kabuto's Chakra adapted. Madara took Ashura's Chakra and merged it with Indra's Chakra, thus his Chakra adapted until it became identical to Hagoromo's. @Underlined, nowhere I said the process takes instant, don't put words into my mouth. I clearly said the time-span between the Chakra mixture and the awakening of the Rinnegan, is how long the process took for Madara's Chakra to adapt. That time-span is around 70-80 years approx.

So you're telling me that awakening an exact identical Rinnegan to Hagoromo's, a Chakra of Hagoromo's, is all a little connection to his bloodline?

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No, homie. Madara's Chakra adapted to Hagoromo's, and that is why he awoke the Rinnegan and able to function its full power.

No, it's not a watered down version nor you understand what an organism adaptation is.

Edit: Also, Izanagi's drawbacks are permanent blind vision. As far as we're concerned, Rinnegan recovered Madara's vision back. Main point is, the time between the merging and awakening of the Rinnegan, Madara's Chakra adapted to Hagoromo's original Chakra; both in quality and quantity. Manga made that clear.

 

[lanakui8]

There has been no difference in physical ability between Juubi Jin Madara and SM Rinnegan Madara's Limbo going by feats, and Naruto is the one who kept up with Limbo for the most part, Sasuke's attempt at it, he got knocked back effortlessly. Sasuke used a Chidori to help seal, and that is about it.

Logically the Limbo should be stronger, but they haven't shown anything to big enough to solidify this.

Based on what are there no differences in physical abilities between the two? If the limboʻs should logically be stronger when theyʻre coming from a more powerful guy, then the burden of proof is on the guy who states that limbos are the same regardless of the power of the guy using them.

 

[KidGamer65]

1. While Madara can't prevent this in most cases, with full intel he can pull it off.

Intel is irrelevant. A much faster Madara got blitzed, with intel on the jutsu. Whether or not he knows about it won't change the fact that he gets blitzed. Doesn't help that he's in range from the start of the match.

2. Obito also stuck his hand inside Madaraʻs chest effortlessly.

Irrelevant, unless you are implying SM Madara>JJ Madara when it comes to durability, or if you are implying that SM Madara could tank Chidori.

Madara has full intel, he simply goes on the defensive with one/two clones, sends the rest out to hold back Sasuke temporarily, casts Jukai Koutan to merge with his Mokuton and Flower Tree World in a different area, and or he uses CT afterward.

Before or after Sasuke instantaneously teleports to his backside and cuts him in half? Definitely not before considering Sasuke is leagues above this guy when it comes to speed. And hold Sasuke back? Really? How do you hold a guy back when:

1. He is much stronger than you, and can one shot you let alone your clones.

2. He can teleport anywhere on the battlefield, that's in his range, which is where Madara is.

Why? Boosted by Rikudo's chakra or not, it's still not as heavy as a Biju, and you already know what one clone is capable of. PS is a different story

Because he can cut them up.

1. Can see them, but can't consistently dodge them without teleportation.

He outpaced Madara on foot. His pre cog in EMS form is fast

2. Based on what is Limbo slower than Juubito, Limbo has always been activated right near the user, it has never magically appeared elsewhere. If it can cross around 100m instantly and do all that, I don't see Juubito being much faster, if at all.

Lmao? SM Naruto reacted to Madara's blitz. KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke got blitzed by Juubito at the start of the fight. KCM Naruto>>SM Naruto in speed. Clones=The user when it comes to physical capabilities. Unless you expect me to believe that SM Madara>=Juubito in speed, Limbo isn't faster than Juubito, not even on his speed tier.

Crossing 100m in the timeframe between him using Limbo and the Bijuu getting hit is child's play. You are vastly overrating this speed feat.

Limbo serve as a distraction, Madara casts CT and it's game over from that point, not a single thing in Sasuke's arsenal is dealing with it, not when PS is restricted.

Extremely poor distraction since Sasuke can see the clones, tell them apart from the original, and can teleport to the original whenever he pleases.

Lol. Rikudo Boost put PS at a level where it was slicing up rocks the size of the Shinju's trunk. A step down is more than enough to handle Madara's Chibaku Tensei when it'll be much weaker than it was in his JJ form. Much weaker. Not like CT'll happen anyway.

 

[madvictory]

Juubito alone destroyed Naruto's Kyuubi Avatar and Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o when he had EMS - Juudara with double Rinnegan obviously wins this battle regardless of Sasuke having PS or not.

 

[XY iNVeRSe]

Sasuke's PS>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sasuke's Rikudo chakra>>>>>>>
Sasuke's teleportation being too quick for Shinju Madara(>SM Madara) to react>>>>>>>
Sasuke's speed>>>>>>>>
Limbo's get raped by PS.

No need to ride him like that..

OT: Only juubi jin madara can defeat current sasuke.

 

[MadaraReturns]

sasuke dickhangers, madara wins EASILY

 

[KidGamer65]

^ Madara dickslurpers. Sasuke shits.

 

[Blunt]

Intel is irrelevant. A much faster Madara got blitzed, with intel on the jutsu. Whether or not he knows about it won't change the fact that he gets blitzed. Doesn't help that he's in range from the start of the match.


Irrelevant, unless you are implying SM Madara>JJ Madara when it comes to durability, or if you are implying that SM Madara could tank Chidori.


Before or after Sasuke instantaneously teleports to his backside and cuts him in half? Definitely not before considering Sasuke is leagues above this guy when it comes to speed. And hold Sasuke back? Really? How do you hold a guy back when:

1. He is much stronger than you, and can one shot you let alone your clones.

2. He can teleport anywhere on the battlefield, that's in his range, which is where Madara is.


Because he can cut them up.



He outpaced Madara on foot. His pre cog in EMS form is fast


Lmao? SM Naruto reacted to Madara's blitz. KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke got blitzed by Juubito at the start of the fight. KCM Naruto>>SM Naruto in speed. Clones=The user when it comes to physical capabilities. Unless you expect me to believe that SM Madara>=Juubito in speed, Limbo isn't faster than Juubito, not even on his speed tier.

Crossing 100m in the timeframe between him using Limbo and the Bijuu getting hit is child's play. You are vastly overrating this speed feat.



Extremely poor distraction since Sasuke can see the clones, tell them apart from the original, and can teleport to the original whenever he pleases.

Lol. Rikudo Boost put PS at a level where it was slicing up rocks the size of the Shinju's trunk. A step down is more than enough to handle Madara's Chibaku Tensei when it'll be much weaker than it was in his JJ form. Much weaker. Not like CT'll happen anyway.

I am pretty much homeless in the next few hours so I'm just going to make it short, have to get shit done. Good thing I still have the phone activated though, Lol.


Juubito point: Are you referring to when Juubito was only a few yards away when he blitzed Naruto/Sasuke?

Based on what is any Susano'o below PS going to destroy a CT? His CT in this form would still dwarf Nagato's CT, it would be ridiculously larger.

Anyway, as always, KG wrecking shit and always bringing convincing arguments that you can rarely deny unless you are delusional.

sasuke dickhangers, madara wins EASILY

Madara is only going to win easily if his Perfect Susano'o is unrestricted in JJ form.

 

[MadaraReturns]

lol i thought this was jj madara, sorry @blunt and kidgaymer, tho he still wins.

 

[KidGamer65]

lol i thought this was jj madara, sorry @blunt and kidgaymer, tho he still wins.

If "wins" means "gets fodderstomped like a bitch" then I agree. Lol

I am pretty much homeless in the next few hours so I'm just going to make it short, have to get shit done. Good thing I still have the phone activated though, Lol.


Juubito point: Are you referring to when Juubito was only a few yards away when he blitzed Naruto/Sasuke?

Yes.

Based on what is any Susano'o below PS going to destroy a CT? His CT in this form would still dwarf Nagato's CT, it would be ridiculously larger.

Forget it, lol. He can't break them. I had Nagato's in mind this whole time.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I don't know how this is up for discussion. Not like Sasuke didn't tango with a stronger version of Madara while still getting use to his new powers.

Perfect Susano'o one shots.