[Discussion] Donquixote Family: All Paramecia!

[Dr Strangelove]

So now I'm having to show you a panel to prove every type of Logia fruit has a specified element? Geez man... Have you not been reading One Piece at all?


No: it just means there are still things to be explained. Don't jump to conclusions.
Second, cool, I have got countless rep from countless members, still have the majority on my side so rep is still relevant.


The fact you first mentioned it indicates that you think rep does. And I already know the majority disagrees with me. A handful actually agree, as it turns out. If you think I'm too stupid to realize this then you clearly lack the intelligence to perceive an argument, process it and counter it with any relevant information.


Naruto is so good that it's had 5 final villains! All of them coming out from nowhere with no foreshadowing at all! Woop! So good! 11/10 would bang Nardo.


Tell that to Riker Salad...

No, i'm asking you to show me where it states logias have to elemental factors. Quit avoiding my points yet again and changing them.

Secondly, you are jumping to a huge conclusion, you keep dancing around mine and Salads points but not answering. You've been doing this for a while now. You can't accept you are wrong, no idea how you are going to keep a career at all if you can't deal with that.

Thirdly, i'm sorry. I didn't realise you know my views on things better than I do myself. Even though you have never met me :|

Naruto is a good manga, recently it went downhill. But overall it is a good manga. At a point you must have thought that too since you joined 3 years ago a forum mainly based around Naruto.

And no, i'm telling you. I have daily debates with Salad over Skype and if he's wrong he accepts it. Same with me. You are impossible to argue with because you deviate from the subject when you are wrong entirely. For some reason you can't handle people proving you otherwise. It's so basic.

Trebol was cut in half and reformed after haki. He creates the substance. Facts are it takes haki to permanently damage a logia. Only other way is CoA which Ussop doesn't possess.

Logias also create their substance which Trebol does.

His fruit fits the description of a logia, what it doesn't fit is your theory. Like I said. I'm so sure on this I will buy you premium if he is a paramecia.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

No, i'm asking you to show me where it states logias have to elemental factors. Quit avoiding my points yet again and changing them.

That didn't make any sense. Do you mean that I need to provide scans to prove they all have elemental powers? I don't need scans for that. If you could logically infer or interpret the following list you will notice 2 things: They are naturally occurring "elements" that make the world around us and secondly they're specific. Their specificity allows them to inherit specific properties, abilities etc.
Smoke
Sand
Fire
Lightning
Ice
Darkness
Magma
Light
Swamp
Gas
Snow

Now "Sticky" is too general. It's more like Poison (in terms of the generic terminology) in comparison to a Logia (with specific terminology).
This on top of the fact all other Donquixote executives are Paramecia will imply that Trebol doesn't belong if he is anything other than a Paramecia. And would break the scheme of things. A bit like Kaidou having an all Zoan crew with the one standout Logia/Paramecia being a prominent member of the crew. They just won't fit in. Which is the original reason as to why I questioned Trebol being a Logia.

If Trebol later turns out to be a Sap man or something then maybe he is a Logia. But as of now due to lack of specificity and being incapable to fit the perfect fit Jigsaw of Logia fruits he isn't a Logia.

Secondly, you are jumping to a huge conclusion, you keep dancing around mine and Salads points but not answering. You've been doing this for a while now. You can't accept you are wrong, no idea how you are going to keep a career at all if you can't deal with that.

I believe I have answered your points. I was getting bored because you seem to skip past my responses and pretend I haven't answered them. This here is a direct response to your statement. I'm not accepting I'm wrong because there is no proof or evidence that is strong enough to prove I am wrong. I've already mentioned this a good 3 or 4 times.

Thirdly, i'm sorry. I didn't realise you know my views on things better than I do myself. Even though you have never met me :|

Where did that come from?

Naruto is a good manga, recently it went downhill. But overall it is a good manga. At a point you must have thought that too since you joined 3 years ago a forum mainly based around Naruto.

If you say so... It was only one of two Manga I followed at the time, and there was no OPB back then.

And no, i'm telling you. I have daily debates with Salad over Skype and if he's wrong he accepts it. Same with me. You are impossible to argue with because you deviate from the subject when you are wrong entirely. For some reason you can't handle people proving you otherwise. It's so basic.

I'm impossible to argue with because there isn't proof or evidence to prove me wrong. The only proof there could be is if Trebol himself states and explains his fruit/classification. It's becoming more and more apparent that your accusations of me on a personal level are being used by you to try and invoke acceptance of being wrong because you know you're wrong or you infact cannot accept you're wrong (which is funny because that's what you accuse me of), even though I so far have had no obligation to do so because of a lack of a strong enough argument from either you or RikerSalad. No evidence or proof. Just word of mouth and manga scans about Zoro getting injured...

Trebol was cut in half and reformed after haki. He creates the substance. Facts are it takes haki to permanently damage a logia. Only other way is CoA which Ussop doesn't possess.

Logias also create their substance which Trebol does.

Usopp can't use Haki. So Haki wouldn't stop him from using his abilities to stick himself together. You know what else creates a substance?
The following Paramecia:

Doru Doru no Mi (Wax Wax fruit - there are many kinds of wax based upon its ingredients) - this fruit also has other Logia characteristics but because Waxes aren't a force of nature it is not a Logia.

Ito Ito no Mi (String String fruit - there are many kinds of string based upon the compounds in the string)

Awa Awa no Mi (Bubble Bubble fruit - there are many kinds of bubbles based upon what is used to make them)

Doku Doku no Mi (Poison Poison fruit - there are many kinds of poisons based upon the ingredients etc.) - this fruit also has other Logia characteristics but because Poisons aren't a force of nature it is not a Logia.

Horu Horu no Mi (Hormone Hormone fruit - many kinds of hormones : yet again! See a pattern emerging here?)

Buki Buki no Mi (Arms Arms fruit - Shit loads of different types of weapons. All can be created by Baby 5) - this fruit also has other Logia characteristics but because Weapons aren't a force of nature it is not a Logia.

So then: The grand finale of this list!!!!
Beta Beta no Mi (Sticky sticky fruit - there's **** tons of adhesives depending on the compounds and how they are made) - this fruit also has other logia characteristics but because adhesives (e.g. Glue, Snot, Resin) are not a force of nature it is not a Logia.

Doesn't a glue or something fit in that list rather than with the likes of Light and Fire?

Do you finally understand?

His fruit fits the description of a logia, what it doesn't fit is your theory. Like I said. I'm so sure on this I will buy you premium if he is a paramecia.

I've explained prior within this post (not skipping your point) as to why this is wrong. You don't need to get premium bro...

If Trebol is a Logia then Oda's running out of ideas. Which I highly doubt.

Edit:

Just thought I would add:
Paramecia literally means Superhuman System
Logia literally means Natural Element

So come again about my definition being wrong?

 

[Dr Strangelove]

That didn't make any sense. Do you mean that I need to provide scans to prove they all have elemental powers? I don't need scans for that. If you could logically infer or interpret the following list you will notice 2 things: They are naturally occurring "elements" that make the world around us and secondly they're specific. Their specificity allows them to inherit specific properties, abilities etc.
Smoke
Sand
Fire
Lightning
Ice
Darkness
Magma
Light
Swamp
Gas
Snow

Now "Sticky" is too general. It's more like Poison (in terms of the generic terminology) in comparison to a Logia (with specific terminology).
This on top of the fact all other Donquixote executives are Paramecia will imply that Trebol doesn't belong if he is anything other than a Paramecia. And would break the scheme of things. A bit like Kaidou having an all Zoan crew with the one standout Logia/Paramecia being a prominent member of the crew. They just won't fit in. Which is the original reason as to why I questioned Trebol being a Logia.

If Trebol later turns out to be a Sap man or something then maybe he is a Logia. But as of now due to lack of specificity and being incapable to fit the perfect fit Jigsaw of Logia fruits he isn't a Logia.


I believe I have answered your points. I was getting bored because you seem to skip past my responses and pretend I haven't answered them. This here is a direct response to your statement. I'm not accepting I'm wrong because there is no proof or evidence that is strong enough to prove I am wrong. I've already mentioned this a good 3 or 4 times.


Where did that come from?


If you say so... It was only one of two Manga I followed at the time, and there was no OPB back then.


I'm impossible to argue with because there isn't proof or evidence to prove me wrong. The only proof there could be is if Trebol himself states and explains his fruit/classification. It's becoming more and more apparent that your accusations of me on a personal level are being used by you to try and invoke acceptance of being wrong because you know you're wrong or you infact cannot accept you're wrong (which is funny because that's what you accuse me of), even though I so far have had no obligation to do so because of a lack of a strong enough argument from either you or RikerSalad. No evidence or proof. Just word of mouth and manga scans about Zoro getting injured...


Usopp can't use Haki. So Haki wouldn't stop him from using his abilities to stick himself together. You know what else creates a substance?
The following Paramecia:

Doru Doru no Mi (Wax Wax fruit - there are many kinds of wax based upon its ingredients) - this fruit also has other Logia characteristics but because Waxes aren't a force of nature it is not a Logia.

Ito Ito no Mi (String String fruit - there are many kinds of string based upon the compounds in the string)

Awa Awa no Mi (Bubble Bubble fruit - there are many kinds of bubbles based upon what is used to make them)

Doku Doku no Mi (Poison Poison fruit - there are many kinds of poisons based upon the ingredients etc.) - this fruit also has other Logia characteristics but because Poisons aren't a force of nature it is not a Logia.

Horu Horu no Mi (Hormone Hormone fruit - many kinds of hormones : yet again! See a pattern emerging here?)

Buki Buki no Mi (Arms Arms fruit - Shit loads of different types of weapons. All can be created by Baby 5) - this fruit also has other Logia characteristics but because Weapons aren't a force of nature it is not a Logia.

So then: The grand finale of this list!!!!
Beta Beta no Mi (Sticky sticky fruit - there's **** tons of adhesives depending on the compounds and how it they are made) - this fruit also has other logia characteristics be because adhesives (e.g. Glue, Snot, Resin) are not a force of nature it is not a Logia.

Doesn't a glue or something fit in that list rather than with the likes of Light and Fire?

Do you finally understand?


I've explained prior within this post (not skipping your point) as to why this is wrong.

....i've had to rewrite this deman about 5 times now.
Show me where it states all logias have to be elemental. Like, find a character specifically saying that. Thanks.

When it comes to the family if that's the case how do you explain Lao G and Dellinger. Lemme guess, your going to come to a baseless conclusion they are also devil fruit users :|

He fits a logia more than he does a paramcia.

Also there is not strong enough evidence to prove that he isn't a logia and is also in fact a paramecia. All you have is your theory.
Nvm about it, i'd rather not stray off into more topics again.

Hardly, I studied psychology at A level, I can tell when somebody has a personal trait such as you. If I could be bothered I could go through all your threads and find an example when you have been provided with evidence and carry on beating around the bush until the other person gives up.

Yes, but in none of those fruits has the person been cut directly in half and joined back together, have they? :/

We could just agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere, especially since I know that Salad has completely given up on you :\

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

....i've had to rewrite this deman about 5 times now.
Show me where it states all logias have to be elemental. Like, find a character specifically saying that. Thanks.

The literal translation of Logia is Natural Element. Nuff said.

When it comes to the family if that's the case how do you explain Lao G and Dellinger. Lemme guess, your going to come to a baseless conclusion they are also devil fruit users :|

There is the possibility of them not being Devil Fruit users. But if they are they'll be Paramecia.

He fits a logia more than he does a paramcia.

That is only an opinion based statement and can't be used as "evidence".

Also there is not strong enough evidence to prove that he isn't a logia and is also in fact a paramecia. All you have is your theory.
Nvm about it, i'd rather not stray off into more topics again.

But you haven't got evidence to debunk the theory. That's the whole point of this debate.

Hardly, I studied psychology at A level, I can tell when somebody has a personal trait such as you. If I could be bothered I could go through all your threads and find an example when you have been provided with evidence and carry on beating around the bush until the other person gives up.

Interpretation of evidence depends on the opinion for or against it. But you're making accusations of me on a personal level. This clearly shows you're trying to achieve something by doing this. Perhaps as a last resort since you know neither side is going to win unless Manga states otherwise in a coming chapter.

Yes, but in none of those fruits has the person been cut directly in half and joined back together, have they? :/

Haven't we had this discussion? Properties of the fruit could possibly allow him to live even as a Paramecia.
And I believe Baby 5 did. She got oblitorated.

Spoiler

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And yet she is not a Logia!

We could just agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere, especially since I know that Salad has completely given up on you :\

It isn't going anywhere and it hasn't for a long time

I just came across something which I would be willing to accept as a compromise:

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[Dr Strangelove]

The literal translation of Logia is Natural Element. Nuff said.


There is the possibility of them not being Devil Fruit users. But if they are they'll be Paramecia.


That is only an opinion based statement and can't be used as "evidence".


But you haven't got evidence to debunk the theory. That's the whole point of this debate.


Interpretation of evidence depends on the opinion for or against it. But you're making accusations of me on a personal level. This clearly shows you're trying to achieve something by doing this. Perhaps as a last resort since you know neither side is going to win unless Manga states otherwise in a coming chapter.


Haven't we had this discussion? Properties of the fruit could possibly allow him to live even as a Paramecia.
And I believe Baby 5 did. She got oblitorated.

Spoiler

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And yet she is not a Logia!


It isn't going anywhere and it hasn't for a long time

I just came across something which I would be willing to accept as a compromise:

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Actually to be fair, you have a point about the natural element thing. I'm not agreeing with you, but now I gotta say he will be some sort of natural element.

That is a baseless assumption since they have shown no qualities of having a devil fruit, and before you say ''Well the rest of the crew has them so it would fit'' that's not evidence, it's another theory.

And yes, both me and Oreo have put out tons of evidence, just you are constantly overlooking it.

Is it an insult? Or a fact that you can't take being proven wrong well? I'll go with fact since i've seen it happen tons and it's also one of your attributes I have to defend against people when they bash you :/ Also I agree neither side will win this debate until it is said whether he has a logia or a paramecia.

That's another good point actually. Although Trebol got cut in half by an outside force, 5 got blown up into pieces by her own power. Hard for me to explain, i've got in my head but can't get it down in words xD like for example if Trebol had been cut in half by an attack infused with haki he couldn't reform, if 5 did she still could in that situation, since it was an attack from someone else. I understand if you don't quite get what I am trying to say here btw XD

And nah, I stand by the fact he is a logia. His fruit just screams logia over paramecia imo. Artificial logia is possible, but I doubt it. I can't see why Doflamingo would give Trebol for no reason at all this fruit, like why would it be him getting it.


At least you got to a compromise, never seen you do that before xD

You actually brought up some good points there

 

[Punk Hazard]

The literal translation of Logia is Natural Element. Nuff said.


There is the possibility of them not being Devil Fruit users. But if they are they'll be Paramecia.


That is only an opinion based statement and can't be used as "evidence".


But you haven't got evidence to debunk the theory. That's the whole point of this debate.


Interpretation of evidence depends on the opinion for or against it. But you're making accusations of me on a personal level. This clearly shows you're trying to achieve something by doing this. Perhaps as a last resort since you know neither side is going to win unless Manga states otherwise in a coming chapter.


Haven't we had this discussion? Properties of the fruit could possibly allow him to live even as a Paramecia.
And I believe Baby 5 did. She got oblitorated.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And yet she is not a Logia!


It isn't going anywhere and it hasn't for a long time

I just came across something which I would be willing to accept as a compromise:

You must be registered for see links

You actually hurt yourself with the Baby 5 analogy. Baby 5 does not create weapons, she becomes them. If you put Baby 5 and Trebol in the same light, that means that Trebol was able to reattach himself because he turned into his substance, the same way Baby 5 turned into the missile. But we've also seen Trebol create his substance. Meaning Trebol created and became, what Paramecias can't do, and what Logias can do. You just shot yourself, this is over.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

You actually hurt yourself with the Baby 5 analogy. Baby 5 does not create weapons, she becomes them. If you put Baby 5 and Trebol in the same light, that means that Trebol was able to reattach himself because he turned into his substance, the same way Baby 5 turned into the missile. But we've also seen Trebol create his substance. Meaning Trebol created and became, what Paramecias can't do, and what Logias can do. You just shot yourself, this is over.

I was simply showing Baby 5 is capable of things logias are. This implies Trebol could be the same.

I've already said that I'll only concede defeat due to confirmation from Oda in an SBS or Manga scans.

A compromise would be an artificial Logia (as I said in my prior post).

 

[Punk Hazard]

I was simply showing Baby 5 is capable of things logias are. This implies Trebol could be the same.

I've already said that I'll only concede defeat due to confirmation from Oda in an SBS or Manga scans.

A compromise would be an artificial Logia (as I said in my prior post).

But the fact remains that we have seen Trebol creating his substance, as he was able to wrap Usopp up in it as well as create a bullet of the substance. If he did what Baby 5 did, that means he would have to had become his substance. Becoming and creating his substance would place him in the Logia class, there's no way around that.

And that's not a compromise actually, since that would still count as a Logia. It'd be compromise if we could somehow think up of a way that it's BOTH Paramecia and Logia, you know, but that's impossible.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

But the fact remains that we have seen Trebol creating his substance, as he was able to wrap Usopp up in it as well as create a bullet of the substance. If he did what Baby 5 did, that means he would have to had become his substance. Becoming and creating his substance would place him in the Logia class, there's no way around that.

And that's not a compromise actually, since that would still count as a Logia. It'd be compromise if we could somehow think up of a way that it's BOTH Paramecia and Logia, you know, but that's impossible.

It is a compromise since it solves the problem as to why it doesn't fit the Logia classification criteria. Because of SMILE it's entirely possible. In fact SMILE (being all Zoan) could mean that the only Logia that could be made from the program was bodily fluids (of animals) e.g. Snot and Mucus aka "Sticky Sticky fruit".

Like I said it's not clear as to whether he became the substance or not. Due to the properties of the fruit he can hold himself together. As this is what a sticky substance would do. You questioned me and my colorscheme point earlier due to the colors being unclear as it was a Manga panel. Well I suppose I will turn the tide by saying: considering the possibility of my point; how can you be certain he became the substance while (it was off paneled if he did) it hasn't been animated yet?

This debate's already ended and you persist to keep it going...

 

[Punk Hazard]

It is a compromise since it solves the problem as to why it doesn't fit the Logia classification criteria. Because of SMILE it's entirely possible. In fact SMILE (being all Zoan) could mean that the only Logia that could be made from the program was bodily fluids (of animals) e.g. Snot and Mucus aka "Sticky Sticky fruit".

Like I said it's not clear as to whether he became the substance or not. Due to the properties of the fruit he can hold himself together. As this is what a sticky substance would do. You questioned me and my colorscheme point earlier due to the colors being unclear as it was a Manga panel. Well I suppose I will turn the tide by saying: considering the possibility of my point; how can you be certain he became the substance while (it was off paneled if he did) it hasn't been animated yet?

This debate's already ended and you persist to keep it going...

Yeah don't get me wrong, Trebol can certainly hold a severed body part in place with his fruit's ability, I'm not denying that. But this won't heal it, it won't aallow him to control the part, the part would no longer function. If his arm is cut off, he can stick it back in place, but he wouldn't be able to move that arm, or control his fingers, etc. This is why he needs to be a Logia in order to still survive being cut in half, but turning into the substance, placing the part back in place, then turning from substance to flesh. This truly reattaches a severed body part, rather than just sticking it back into place, which would serve no purpose.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Yeah don't get me wrong, Trebol can certainly hold a severed body part in place with his fruit's ability, I'm not denying that. But this won't heal it, it won't aallow him to control the part, the part would no longer function. If his arm is cut off, he can stick it back in place, but he wouldn't be able to move that arm, or control his fingers, etc. This is why he needs to be a Logia in order to still survive being cut in half, but turning into the substance, placing the part back in place, then turning from substance to flesh. This truly reattaches a severed body part, rather than just sticking it back into place, which would serve no purpose.

Is that so?

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I believe I mentioned this kind of stuff before.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Is that so?

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

I believe I mentioned this kind of stuff before.

...That's not the same thing dude. In the case of the nose, they created a nose from flesh that still attached to his body. In the second case, the hand was attached to the leg, not stuck onto it. You do realize that if Trebol just stuck a body part back on, it would be the same as gluing paper to a wall right? The paper is stuck to the wall, but not part of the wall, the same way the body part is stuck to the body, but no longer part of the body.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

...That's not the same thing dude. In the case of the nose, they created a nose from flesh that still attached to his body. In the second case, the hand was attached to the leg, not stuck onto it. You do realize that if Trebol just stuck a body part back on, it would be the same as gluing paper to a wall right? The paper is stuck to the wall, but not part of the wall, the same way the body part is stuck to the body, but no longer part of the body.

Attached and stuck onto are the same thing.

So going by your analysis the guys hand wasn't a part of his body anymore (even though it was alive), same with the nose.

Alternatively you can look at it as fixing a toy and keeping its parts together - allowing it to continue to function properly.

Somehow it reminds me of Sugar whom Trebol works very closely with... There's the Toy maker and the guy who can fix them
That's probably irrelevant but it's an interesting way of looking at it

 

[Punk Hazard]

Actually, this debate is over.

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This is the full sized image. Parts of his clothes are dripping, stretched out and still attached to whatever he was part of. His head below is completely splattered in a glob. You can see part of the white part of his clothes, the collar, has separated in a tiny blob. His clothes themselves are turned into the substance, hence why they have that shape. This image alone proves he is a Logia.