Does Ice Mirror Kekkei Genkai suck?

[GiantShuriken]

1T Sharingan was able to allow Sasuke to easily see Haku and even intercept his attack on Naruto and this was pre-kakashi training which made him as fast as unweighted Lee. 2T Sharingan Sasuke(pre kakashi training before final rounds) was not able to see or keep up with weighted Rock Lee. 2T Sharingan Sasuke could not see fox cloak Naruto's movements. And MS Sasuke could not see Raikage. So does the Ice Mirror Kekkei Genkai kind of suck since it can be proven that in base, weighted Lee, unweighted Lee, and post Kakashi-training Sasuke are all faster than Haku in ice mirrors?

 

[Punk Hazard]

It does not necessarily suck, Haku is just too slow.

 

[HiddenSound]

I don't think so. What are the odds that you're going up against an Uchiha? But of course most characters now could get past it. Also, it's good enough for Kabuto to go out of his way to resurrect its wielder.

 

[sjarkhor]

It does not necessarily suck, Haku is just too slow.

or too young.. or too untrained?

 

[SQY]

It does not necessarily suck, Haku is just too slow.

This, Haku is beginner, who knows, the Kekkei Genkai itself could of had many abilities or stages U_U

 

[BlueNote]

Actually it was Op and haku wasn't really trying his best (since he never has an intent to kill) and it depeneds on how fast the user is. id say if he was intruduced in the shippuden era as someone who wants to kill someone the move would have been an unescapable hell

 

[Datguyjr]

It does not necessarily suck, Haku is just too slow.

This. I thought it was an awesome Kekkei Genkai though

 

[~Dream~]

It was by Haku, a child. It's underrated by many members but it's pretty OP

 

[HBKJames]

Compared to the Three Great Dojutsus it sucks...but when up against someone without the eyes its pretty great if you can get them trapped inside...almost impossible to beat

 

[HitmanSasuke23]

Haku and Zabuza were the first major villans...Haku could only be so strong...he didn't have a problem kicking ass in the 4th shinobi war...it's not weak at all he just got matched up against an uchiha

 

[GiantShuriken]

The whole point of Ice mirrors is that Haku is supposed to be extremely fast in there. Hence why he was kicking Sasuke and Naruto's ass in the beginning of the fight. But immediately the arc after that we met a character in Rock Lee(wearing weights) who was too quick for 2T Sasuke, after Sasuke's 1T Sharingan allowed him to keep up with Haku and hit him and intercept his attack on Naruto. It seems like they just completely made it worthless. And now there are multiple characters in base faster than him in Ice Mirrors. If Rock Lee wearing weights was stuck inside the ice mirrors, he'd have konoha senpuu'd Haku's face off.

 

[Lentz]

Well Sharingan is overpowered, it suddenly gives you the ability to own someone you couldn't lay a hand on seconds ago (Obito vs invisible dude).

 

[Stark]

Did you see Sasuke and Naruto after the fight?

 

[GiantShuriken]

Haku and Zabuza were the first major villans...Haku could only be so strong...he didn't have a problem kicking ass in the 4th shinobi war...it's not weak at all he just got matched up against an uchiha

But even non Uchihas with high base speed(just as fast as weighted Lee in base), could have easily stopped his attacks since it is proven weighted Lee is faster than Haku while using Ice Mirrors. Currently Base weighted Lee and base Sasuke are both faster than Haku in ice mirrors, so it is like they are permanently using a Kekkei Genkai. Gaara's absolute defense would have had NP keeping up with it the same way it had no problem keeping up with weighted Lee's attacks. It just seemed massively underpowered for a kekkei genkai. They shouldn't have even called it a kekkei genkai, they should have just said it was Haku's clans special move, like Baika no Jutsu for Choji or Shadow bind for Shikamaru.

 

[blackstar9]

No kkg sucks. Its rare not too many ninja have it. Haku jutsu doesnt suck. The chances of meeting an uchiha in battle at the time was 2 in a million. haku could kill most ninja with his kkg

 

[GiantShuriken]

No kkg sucks. Its rare not too many ninja have it. Haku jutsu doesnt suck. The chances of meeting an uchiha in battle at the time was 2 in a million. haku could kill most ninja with his kkg

He can't kill any ninja as long as they have the speed of weighted genin Rock Lee who is proven to be faster than Haku in ice mirrors.

 

[HBKJames]

The whole point of Ice mirrors is that Haku is supposed to be extremely fast in there. Hence why he was kicking Sasuke and Naruto's ass in the beginning of the fight. But immediately the arc after that we met a character in Rock Lee(wearing weights) who was too quick for 2T Sasuke, after Sasuke's 1T Sharingan allowed him to keep up with Haku and hit him and intercept his attack on Naruto. It seems like they just completely made it worthless. And now there are multiple characters in base faster than him in Ice Mirrors. If Rock Lee wearing weights was stuck inside the ice mirrors, he'd have konoha senpuu'd Haku's face off.

No, Rock Lee wasn't too fast for Sasuke's sharingan. His sharingan could see Rock Lee's moves perfectly, even copied it to a tee. It was just Sasuke's body was too slow to react. He could see, but it was pointless if his body couldn't respond

As Rock Lee was explaining during their fight "Your eyes may be able to read my movements but your body does not have the speed to to react to my taijutsu. Basically, even if you can see it, if your body then it's useless"

So Lee wasn't particulary faster than Haku's Ice Mirrors, rather just that the second either Haku or the throwing needles he was attacking with left the ice mirrors they were moving at their regular speed which Sasuke'd body could react too. The second anything leaves the ice mirrors it loses that big spped boost; vs Lee was coming at Sasuke still with the insane spped; speed that Sasuke could see but couldn't react in time to. But in both cases Sasuke was able to see

 

[Drakengard]

If you ask me I don't think Kishi intended the gap between Kakashi and Sasuke to be as big as he made it appear later. Sasuke went from getting owned by a water clone to blitzing several of them w/ no difficulty. Judging by how much praise Zabuza gave Haku, I think it supports the notion a bit.

But other than that, Haku had already said that he was slowing down at that time. Despite that, he was still able to hit Kakashi's summoning scroll with several senbon while intercepting Kakashi's raikiri before going down. If he was THAT weak, he wouldn't have been very useful in the War.

Since this is about Ice Release in particular I'll go off that instead. From feats, we can tell that you're able to both attack and defend using a good use of shape manipulation, and that the demonic ice mirrors are the next stage of the KG's evolution since it raises the user's speed by a significant amount (being able to place the mirror almost anywhere is awesome too, it's like S/T ninjutsu). I don't think you should judge it so harshly

 

[Icelerate]

IMO Haku is a low jounin level ninja. The KKG is pretty good but it drains a lot of chakra. Once it drains Haku's chakra, his speed decreases considerably which allowed Sasuke to dodge Haku's attacks. I do agree that Haku can be overrated at times though. Even still, you have to remember that Haku was going easy on Naruto and Sasuke. If he had gone all out at the very beginning of the fight when his stamina was still high, he could have beat the both of them.

 

[-Haku Yuki-]

But even non Uchihas with high base speed(just as fast as weighted Lee in base), could have easily stopped his attacks since it is proven weighted Lee is faster than Haku while using Ice Mirrors. Currently Base weighted Lee and base Sasuke are both faster than Haku in ice mirrors, so it is like they are permanently using a Kekkei Genkai. Gaara's absolute defense would have had NP keeping up with it the same way it had no problem keeping up with weighted Lee's attacks. It just seemed massively underpowered for a kekkei genkai. They shouldn't have even called it a kekkei genkai, they should have just said it was Haku's clans special move, like Baika no Jutsu for Choji or Shadow bind for Shikamaru.

acually the reflection telports haku from mirror to mirror at great speeds and if lee can't see his moves he can't keep up