[Discussion] Does God have a plan?

[HiddenSound]

If he does, it's our duty to break that plan wherever possible.

Why do you say that?

OT: I mean... We will never know... There are some things that make me believe he does, such as being the architect of everything and being "in love" with us. Plus that's what the preachers say lol
However, God would be a pretty f*cked up being if everything is all planned out.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Why do you say that?

An unfortunate side effect of giving us free will is that we have free will. The free will not to follow a magical invisible man in the sky, for one.

 

[HiddenSound]

An unfortunate side effect of giving us free will is that we have free will. The free will not to follow a magical invisible man in the sky, for one.

But if he were to exist, why exactly would you personally choose disobey him? It seemed like you were saying "disobeying for disobeying's sake"

 

[Multiply]

I mean each individual has true free will with some exception like the anti-christ for example. And in order for his plan to carry out, he guides others with free will like prophets. And the end of humanity is planned out.

I can kill the next person to come up to me and that's totally up to me, God won't interfere.

So God controls all besides the anti-christ? The hell does that even mean? Why can't he control the anti-christ? If God doesn't interfere in you murdering, doesn't that mean it was part of the plan?

No, it means that God is almighty and can see all and knows all.
It doesn't mean he's interfering with someone's freewill at all, giving
them a false sense.

It'd be like me watching over ants knowing exactly what they'll do, though
I still have no control over them because they're themselves with their own freedom.

Except you don't exactly what ants will do. You can observe the ants but you'll never know exactly what they're doing.

In regards to prayers, since God knows all, he knows if you're going to pray and at what moment so you could say that's part of the plan but in the end, it's because you prayed, that it was put into the plan.

So the plan changes for every single person that prays? What if prayers are conflicting?

The best way to put it (imo) is: When you read a book, do you ever ask if the Author has a plan? Probably not, because you're patient enough to just read the book without trying to edit it. Impatient people pray for things in an attempt to edit life before even finishing the book. There does have to be a God, though. My proof?

Can we make a living organism from scratch?

Can conscience be created?

Can one choose not to be born?

The answer to all three is "no". So something had to incubate the first millions of organisms. Conscience had to stem from somewhere. And someone had to get the ball rolling on birth and death. Just sayin'.

This was ridiculous. The author obviously has a plan. What am I(the reader) capable of changing in a book that has been published?

All of these have a simple counter as someone said above. Where does God come in?

How does not being able to choose not to be born prove God's existence?

Of course conscience can be created(Not in a lab). It is done everyday several hundred thousand times a day.

Why does the inability to create a living organism from scratch prove God's existence? The Earth and the earliest earth-based organisms predate humanity so that assertion is ridiculous again.

 

[-immortal-]

God's plan is created by humans through a book

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

So God controls all besides the anti-christ? The hell does that even mean? Why can't he control the anti-christ? If God doesn't interfere in you murdering, doesn't that mean it was part of the plan?




Except you don't exactly what ants will do. You can observe the ants but you'll never know exactly what they're doing.



So the plan changes for every single that prays? What if prayers are conflicting?



This was ridiculous. The author obviously has a plan. What am I(the reader) capable of changing in a book that has been published?

All of these have a simple counter as someone said above. Where does God come in?

How does not being able to choose not to be born prove God's existence?

Of course conscience can be created(Not in a lab). It is done everyday several hundred thousand times a day.

Why does the ability to create a living organism from scratch prove God's existence? The Earth and the earliest earth-based organisms predate humanity so that assertion is ridiculous again.

You read my posts wrong.

 

[FreakensteinAG]

The best way to put it (imo) is: When you read a book, do you ever ask if the Author has a plan? Probably not, because you're patient enough to just read the book without trying to edit it. Impatient people pray for things in an attempt to edit life before even finishing the book. There does have to be a God, though. My proof?

Can we make a living organism from scratch?

Can conscience be created?

Can one choose not to be born?

The answer to all three is "no". So something had to incubate the first millions of organisms. Conscience had to stem from somewhere. And someone had to get the ball rolling on birth and death. Just sayin'.

One cannot choose to be born, but yes, you can make a living organism by an individual manual mechanism, but you're gonna have to specify what "scratch" means to you. Yes, we can create consciousness. Consciousness involves the correct combination of neurons in your brain firing off to gather information around it and responding to it. Someone in page one mentioned ants. Ants have consciousness. Consciousness isn't as complicated as people make it out to be, but creating consciousness is very hard. It still can be done.

 

[BrillyMac]

If God existed, he would not have a plan. A PERFECT being wouldn't need to plan things.

What? Perfection is not one single point that you can be at because the universe will forever expand. Therefore you have to keep growing. Perfection is a perpetual growth. Human beings go through struggle because it is the natural process towards perfection

I personally am not religious(More spiritual) but I still want to pose the following questions. Does God have a plan? If there is a plan, what's the point of praying for a specific outcome if it is or isn't already in the plan? I think it's just to put people at ease for not being in control of their life(In their perspective) and making them think they have a choice.

Yes. Gods plan is to perfect all of his creation.

 

[FreakensteinAG]

What? Perfection is not one single point that you can be at because the universe will forever expand. Therefore you have to keep growing. Perfection is a perpetual growth. Human beings go through struggle because it is the natural process towards perfection


Yes. Gods plan is to perfect all of his creation.

How do you know what God's plan is? Did he tell you?

 

[BlacLord™]

If God existed, he would not have a plan. A PERFECT being wouldn't need to plan things.

Perfect just means not making mistakes. A perfect being would plan; but it would be a perfect one that would unravel flawlessly.

 

[BrillyMac]

If God existed, he would not have a plan. A PERFECT being wouldn't need to plan things.

I personally am not religious(More spiritual) but I still want to pose the following questions. Does God have a plan? If there is a plan, what's the point of praying for a specific outcome if it is or isn't already in the plan? I think it's just to put people at ease for not being in control of their life(In their perspective) and making them think they have a choice.

How do you know what God's plan is? Did he tell you?

Because everything in creation is constantly evolving. If you study enough about God, you can learn this also. You can learn this through scruptures, through nature, and through the universe.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

What? Perfection is not one single point that you can be at because the universe will forever expand. Therefore you have to keep growing. Perfection is a perpetual growth. Human beings go through struggle because it is the natural process towards perfection


Yes. Gods plan is to perfect all of his creation.

How can perfection be a constant growth but still an endgoal for an omnipotent being? The two statements are contradictory

 

[FreakensteinAG]

Because everything in creation is constantly evolving. If you study enough about God, you can learn this also. You can learn this through scruptures, through nature, and through the universe.

This is true for organic living material, however, that's not to say Evolution is the plan of God. Evolution is happening, but it's never perfect.

So again, how do you know what God's plan is? He could be going a completely different route than what you say.

 

[BrillyMac]

How can perfection be a constant growth but still an endgoal for an omnipotent being? The two statements are contradictory

No. Perfection is perpetual growth. Perfection is not being at one single point forever because as time goes on, you have to evolve with it. Perfection is perpetual motion. The moment a thing stops evolving or growing than it will fall behind something else in growth.

 

[Nupp]

How can we have free will if everything we do was planned by God? Religious people never really study the bible they just read it without thinking about what it actually says.

 

[kuchiyosenojutsuironmaidn]

That argument just raises the laughable easy counter: Where does a god fit into this? Where did its consciousness come from? If a god doesn't need to have come from anywhere, then it's not unreasonable to say that any other life didn't need a creator.

Game on!

I never said that a God does not have to come from anywhere. Scientists have all settled on this idea that if they can't fathom it, then it can't be true. How conceded. You really believe in whimsical phenomena? You really believe life is a coincidence?

:wesobi:

There is no beginning and there is no end. And you'll probably say that's impossible because you can't imagine it. Right? Well does the world have a start point? An end point? Easy to imagine, though. Right? My point is, conscience stemmed from somewhere. In that mass of gas, liquid, solid, plasma, force, and countless other properties, there was conscience. So that mass (the origin of the universe that scientists believe in) was, and still is, conscious. Else, tell me how to generate conscience.

:flakez:

 

[FreakensteinAG]

There is no beginning and there is no end. And you'll probably say that's impossible because you can't imagine it. Right? Well does the world have a start point? An end point? Easy to imagine, though. Right? My point is, conscience stemmed from somewhere. In that mass of gas, liquid, solid, plasma, force, and countless other properties, there was conscience. So that mass (the origin of the universe that scientists believe in) was, and still is, conscious. Else, tell me how to generate conscience.

If you looked at my first post in this thread, you'd know the answer. Consciousness, by definition, is from a working brain. The supermass that was the expansion of the universe was not made of neurons. Consciousness cannot be made from gasses.

 

[BrillyMac]

This is true for organic living material, however, that's not to say Evolution is the plan of God. Evolution is happening, but it's never perfect.

So again, how do you know what God's plan is? He could be going a completely different route than what you say.

God is a man just like you and I. This is where people get God mixed up with some space cadet living on some comet somewhere. God is the person with the most knowledge in the universe. He is better at everything than everyone else which is why he is God. If you have a track race from michigan and florida and the winner comes up against someone from carolina and then the fastest out of those two end up going around all 50 states and then end up racing the world and winning and can run the fastest and for the longest time, they would be considered the God of track. No one can touch them. God is a title. God is like electricity. Electricity is everywhere, but it cannot manifest itself without a conductor. But conductors at a certain point burn out. Human beings are the conductors that can make knowledge (electricity) into reality. We have infiinte capabilities. The one who can be at the top of everything and stay up to date with the changes in the universe and grow on par with the universe is God. The thing tha makes someone God is the knowledge they hold. They manifest that knowledge

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Okay, it's like this. God sets up the environment and places us on it. We then do our own thing but occasionally when we're going astray, God guides one person to guide us. Then we continue to do our own thing again, until God says it is time for the end, and pulls the strings on the final stages like bringing forth the anti-Christ or the second coming of Jesus. (I'm not Christian, but since that's what most people are familiar with, I'll go with it)

We still retain our free will and ability to make choices involving ourselves. You do not have to listen to the ones guided by God as that is your choice.

 

[Multiply]

Game on!

I never said that a God does not have to come from anywhere. Scientists have all settled on this idea that if they can't fathom it, then it can't be true. How conceded.

This couldn't be any more untrue.

You really believe in whimsical phenomena? You really believe life is a coincidence?

:wesobi:

Why can't it be? Oh yeah, because you can't fathom it.

There is no beginning and there is no end. And you'll probably say that's impossible because you can't imagine it. Right? Well does the world have a start point? An end point? Easy to imagine, though. Right? My point is, conscience stemmed from somewhere. In that mass of gas, liquid, solid, plasma, force, and countless other properties, there was conscience. So that mass (the origin of the universe that scientists believe in) was, and still is, conscious. Else, tell me how to generate conscience.

:flakez:

Where is your proof that there is consciousness mixed in the universe?