Do you think this why people play the race card?

[Cornson]

At no other point in history has there been a society that claims to be as egalitarian, democratic and humanitarian as that of the western world today. You claim free market, capitalism, and meritocracy. You say that it's all good now, now everything is fair.

Correct, granting opportunities so everyone have a more than fair chance of flourishing if they have the ability to do so is the most fair system/society we have ever had (hence, why the USA is lacking a little behind compared to most of the west in "fairness" sure the USA is better than almost all none western countries, just not most other western countries)

When schemes that are actually fair, such as racial quotas are implemented you condemn it, saying that it goes against the fundamentals of equality. Equality, you say it again and again and again, almost as if it were a mantra that, if said enough, might actually be reality. But it's not.

Blocking people from getting access to higher education who had performed better at the entrance tests to said higher education because there have to be "x %" black people "x % woman" and "x brown people" is not fairness, it's the opposite of fairness/equality, it's manipulating the fair system that was put in place to help those most qualified... Don't forget that people are born different, the system is there to be as fair as possible, however doing these quotas in dragging people away from their opportunities of higher education so others less "worthy" of it gets their spot, that's the exact opposite of fair.[/QUOTE]

You say it while ignoring the fact that for four centuries the western white world benefited from the unpaid, forced labour of Afro-Carribeans.

Capitalism isn't a fair system, for some people to earn a profit other have to suffer losses, it's just the system that grants the most amount of people the opportunities to gain wealth we ever had.

That for four centuries our race was dehumanised - considered as less than cattle. Our culture warped and systematically destroyed, our minds confined by an intentional denial of education - because what is educated must be man, and we were not to be so. For that would destroy the imperative.

Slavery have existed for thousands of years, and who was it that actually made it illegal, that's right the west... all the great empires that have ever existed had slaves, however it was first in 1807 at the british as the first nation in the world that outlawed slavery that we started seeing a change, that is just a few generations ago.

All of the western world was beginning to sing songs of liberty and democracy. Monarchies were toppled left right and centre, for how was it fair for one man to rule over another simply by virtue of his birth?

Men, as a class was first allowed to vote in Brittany in 1918 as long as they wore at the age of 21, before 1918 you could only vote if you owned a "x amount of wealth/property" no matter the race, america did it later, so it wasn't exactly like most monarchies wore toppled and suddenly everything was democratic all of a sudden, it was a slow process. (by the way there are still slavery today, low estimates says that there are still 8 million people living in servitude right now... alot of them are in North Korea, but still, there is still slavery in the world...)

The elephant in the room was ignored. And even when it was finally addressed, even when amazing grace was finally sung, almost a century later and it was still necessary for blacks to campaign for rights that were actually equal. A hundred years later and equal rights were still not given, much less restitution for the suffering, socioeconomic homicide and dehumanisation that slavery was.

Who should pay for this? all the people that had slaves wore dead... do you want to punish the children or grandchildren of the people that had slaves? do you think it's fair to punish a person of something they did not do? that's doesn't sound fair if you ask me, it's outright immoral and unjust...

Most american slaves wore enslaved by other Africans before they wore shipped to the Americas and then the children of slaves who also enslaved, so do you want to punish the decedent of the Africans who enslaved the Africans that became slaves in america?

The forty acres and a mule that was promised? Not given. Blacks across America fought and shed blood for you freely, of their own volition, and still they were not given even an acre? Still they were regarded as less. 'Separate but equal', they said. But it was okay for a black child to be strung up in the street and lynched - to suffer abuse that the contemporary society responsible would likely find distasteful if meted out against a pet or animal. But it was okay, because he was black.

of cause this wasn't justified, however, that was then, and this is now, all the people that did these immoral things are already dead, i just can't see a way to try and "fix it" that is just, or have anything with justice to do, it will just be revenge for the past and nothing else...

You act as though these events didn't give white people an innate socio-economic advantage. You question why we haven't been able to build ourselves up in three generations, when you yourself have had over five centuries to build yourself up off of not only your own efforts - but also by the vilely unethical unpaid labour of millions of slaves. Yes, it has been almost a century and a half since Slavery was in effect.

It isn't exactly like the conditions for the average white person was good compared to todays standards, sure they wore better than whites, but just like today they wore wage slaves, living from paycheck to paycheck and without work they and their families would starve, most white people wore uneducated as well, and it's not like "all white people" work together to make the world better for the "white fokes" white people wore more than content murdering each other and enslaving each other long before we ever encounter a black or yellow man...

Yes, we are no longer born into slavery. But we are still born into its effects. If you can't see that socioeconomics and genealogy are inextricably linked then you're a fool. You say that the greatest and fairest race that humanity has ever experienced has begun, but ignore that by virtue of birth, your starting line was far ahead of ours.

people in the west have never had as many opportunities for a great life as they have now (well, technically you had a slightly better chance to a good life if you wore a grown up and lived between 1960-1980, that was the peak) people born in a 2 parents household with a stable family have a very high chance to live a life in the middle class.

71% of blacks are born in 1 parent households, being raised by a single parent increases the risk of you living in poverty or turning to crime. The problem isn't the vestiges of racism or the white man holding you down, it's the unsuitability of broken homes.

 

[System001]

Correct, granting opportunities so everyone have a more than fair chance of flourishing if they have the ability to do so is the most fair system/society we have ever had (hence, why the USA is lacking a little behind compared to most of the west in "fairness" sure the USA is better than almost all none western countries, just not most other western countries)



Blocking people from getting access to higher education who had performed better at the entrance tests to said higher education because there have to be "x %" black people "x % woman" and "x brown people" is not fairness, it's the opposite of fairness/equality, it's manipulating the fair system that was put in place to help those most qualified... Don't forget that people are born different, the system is there to be as fair as possible, however doing these quotas in dragging people away from their opportunities of higher education so others less "worthy" of it gets their spot, that's the exact opposite of fair.

Capitalism isn't a fair system, for some people to earn a profit other have to suffer losses, it's just the system that grants the most amount of people the opportunities to gain wealth we ever had.



Slavery have existed for thousands of years, and who was it that actually made it illegal, that's right the west... all the great empires that have ever existed had slaves, however it was first in 1807 at the british as the first nation in the world that outlawed slavery that we started seeing a change, that is just a few generations ago.



Men, as a class was first allowed to vote in Brittany in 1918 as long as they wore at the age of 21, before 1918 you could only vote if you owned a "x amount of wealth/property" no matter the race, america did it later, so it wasn't exactly like most monarchies wore toppled and suddenly everything was democratic all of a sudden, it was a slow process. (by the way there are still slavery today, low estimates says that there are still 8 million people living in servitude right now... alot of them are in North Korea, but still, there is still slavery in the world...)



Who should pay for this? all the people that had slaves wore dead... do you want to punish the children or grandchildren of the people that had slaves? do you think it's fair to punish a person of something they did not do? that's doesn't sound fair if you ask me, it's outright immoral and unjust...

Most american slaves wore enslaved by other Africans before they wore shipped to the Americas and then the children of slaves who also enslaved, so do you want to punish the decedent of the Africans who enslaved the Africans that became slaves in america?



of cause this wasn't justified, however, that was then, and this is now, all the people that did these immoral things are already dead, i just can't see a way to try and "fix it" that is just, or have anything with justice to do, it will just be revenge for the past and nothing else...



It isn't exactly like the conditions for the average white person was good compared to todays standards, sure they wore better than whites, but just like today they wore wage slaves, living from paycheck to paycheck and without work they and their families would starve, most white people wore uneducated as well, and it's not like "all white people" work together to make the world better for the "white fokes" white people wore more than content murdering each other and enslaving each other long before we ever encounter a black or yellow man...



people in the west have never had as many opportunities for a great life as they have now (well, technically you had a slightly better chance to a good life if you wore a grown up and lived between 1960-1980, that was the peak) people born in a 2 parents household with a stable family have a very high chance to live a life in the middle class.

71% of blacks are born in 1 parent households, being raised by a single parent increases the risk of you living in poverty or turning to crime. The problem isn't the vestiges of racism or the white man holding you down, it's the unsuitability of broken homes.

Cite cases strongest for your cause while ignoring the French revolution, bill of rights and so on. Lol okay.

If you had opportunities that someone else had by merit of your birth, then how is it unfair to judge you by a stricter standard than someone who has not had those opportunities. If you're truly 'worthy' you'll surmount that steeper gradient that has been placed against you with ease. But if you're privately educated, from a two parent household, and raised in a good area, yet you achieve similar results to someone who came from very little then it's clear who's showing more potential. Hint hint, it's not you.

If you're so good, why do you have to make those of a race that has been historically, institutionally and systematically disadvantaged your direct competition? Why consider them as your focus, instead of focusing on the spots that aren't quota'd to these races? You admit that your ancestors have stolen from us, benefited from us, and that by extension, you too have benefited from the suffering of our ancestors. You want to say that everything is a free and fair competition while ignoring the head start that you've been given. Given, not earned. Given. Then you rebuke programs that are meant to function as a 'help me up' to us? Programs that do actually have to be earned? Are you being serious?

Also, can you seriously not see the link between slavery - which systematically apart the structure of the nuclear black family, and single parent households, which you're attempting to attribute all problems to? Seriously? That's what you'd like to blame? But in doing so you're actually trying to claim that slavery, jim crow laws and discrimination has no play in it? As if the government didn't flood black communities with crack cocaine and watch as it tore their households apart? Seriously? As if slaves weren't intentionally separated from their family to destroy the idea of family ties and family units? Seriously? As if the discrimination of the early 20th century wasn't institutionally designed to deprive the black male of his natural roles of manhood and fatherhood, and instead make the black female reliant on the government for assistance (and this is after centuries of having the idea that he is not a man at all instilled into him). Just lol. Your entire argument is dysfunctional, you attempt to break down my post into pieces so you can assault it in isolation - an effective technique, yes, but only if you address the entire argument as a whole at some point. Even axioms can be made to seem untrue if torn into parts and assaulted in pieces.

Just as physical abuse carries with it a mental affect, so too is slavery not just a physical phenomena, but also a mental one. Just as the mental affects of physical abuse take longer to heal, so too will the mental slavery that has been instilled into the black race take longer to heal. Ideas are powerful, and for 500 years the idea that has been implanted into us is that we are nothing.
Even now, you promote a version of this idea by implying that our current predicament has arisen through some fault of our own. As if we should have 'fixed' ourselves by now. As if any charity or goodwill extended towards us is not only unwarranted, but unjustified. As if we do not deserve chances. That we should not take pride in our culture, that afrocentrism should not be a thing, that we should not be able to proclaim that our lives matter. Want to know why White Lives Matter isn't a thing? It's because you haven't been told for the past 500 fucking years that they do NOT matter. You want to laugh and say that racism does not exist, that we're 'all good now', but when have you done anything to right the wrongs of the past. You expect us to do it, you watch us struggle and you sneer. 'We set you free, why are you doing so poorly?' You set us free after enslaving us. You set us free, yes, but you set us behind too.

 

[Fountain]

You’re continuing to prove me right with every response where you resort to bad insults instead of addressing even one of the posts I made. I only brought it up because YOU started complaining about how you weren’t getting proper responses

So i said you're full of shit cause you think you're in an ivory tower and you clearly only care about gratification, winning arguments, and acting like you're smarter than anyone, like your buddy Lightbringer whose been doing nothing but insulting me all this time but all of a sudden oh no i resort to bad insults. Get fucked. You're the one proving me right.

 

[Cornson]

Cite cases strongest for your cause while ignoring the French revolution, bill of rights and so on. Lol okay.

What part of most monarchies wore left intact did you read as all? I didn't highlight the french revolution because it was one of the few instances where it was purged...

If you had opportunities that someone else had by merit of your birth, then how is it unfair to judge you by a stricter standard than someone who has not had those opportunities.

What opportunities where? all citizens of western countries (except those where you have to pay for collage, the USA for example) have the same amount of opportunities granted to them, forcing 1 sets of rules/standards on 1 type of people and not the other is D I S C R I M I N A T O R Y and unjust/unfair and the opposite of equal.

If you're truly 'worthy' you'll surmount that steeper gradient that has been placed against you with ease. But if you're privately educated, from a two parent household, and raised in a good area, yet you achieve similar results to someone who came from very little then it's clear who's showing more potential. Hint hint, it's not you.

Say that to asains who have to get 30% more points on the scores than black people to join harvard... also, hint, hint I'm well aware that im not some kind of ginious that have earned millions of dollars, if i wore why the F would i waste my time talking about fairness on a anime forum when i could be flying around in a private yet or enjoin my life in a mansion surrounded by friends?

If you're so good, why do you have to make those of a race that has been historically, institutionally and systematically disadvantaged your direct competition? Why consider them as your focus, instead of focusing on the spots that aren't quota'd to these races? You admit that your ancestors have stolen from us, benefited from us, and that by extension, you too have benefited from the suffering of our ancestors. You want to say that everything is a free and fair competition while ignoring the head start that you've been given. Given, not earned. Given. Then you rebuke programs that are meant to function as a 'help me up' to us? Programs that do actually have to be earned? Are you being serious?

I don't care much about the past, i don't care that your ancestors or other peoples ancestors wore persecuted or enslaved (even my great, great, great ancestor if you go 600 years back wore enslaved by a knight and later freeded) what happended 2+ generations ago is irrelevant to the opportunities you (as in everyone in most western countries) have to live a free and happy life.

Also, can you seriously not see the link between slavery - which systematically apart the structure of the nuclear black family, and single parent households, which you're attempting to attribute all problems to? Seriously? That's what you'd like to blame? But in doing so you're actually trying to claim that slavery, jim crow laws and discrimination has no play in it? As if the government didn't flood black communities with crack cocaine and watch as it tore their households apart? Seriously? As if slaves weren't intentionally separated from their family to destroy the idea of family ties and family units? Seriously? As if the discrimination of the early 20th century wasn't institutionally designed to deprive the black male of his natural roles of manhood and fatherhood, and instead make the black female reliant on the government for assistance (and this is after centuries of having the idea that he is not a man at all instilled into him). Just lol. Your entire argument is dysfunctional, you attempt to break down my post into pieces so you can assault it in isolation - an effective technique, yes, but only if you address the entire argument as a whole at some point. Even axioms can be made to seem untrue if torn into parts and assaulted in pieces.

of cause there is a link, and ofcause there are some tings to blame, however, at what point must the black people themselves free themselves of "my ancestors wore enslaved" and take responsibility for their own lifes and not have children out of wedlock? now don't get me wrong people can exactly what ever they want, but if they wanted to improve the black commuinity it starts with the individual being better and doing whats best for themselves and others and not blaming the past for everything.

Just as physical abuse carries with it a mental affect, so too is slavery not just a physical phenomena, but also a mental one. Just as the mental affects of physical abuse take longer to heal, so too will the mental slavery that has been instilled into the black race take longer to heal. Ideas are powerful, and for 500 years the idea that has been implanted into us is that we are nothing.
Even now, you promote a version of this idea by implying that our current predicament has arisen through some fault of our own. As if we should have 'fixed' ourselves by now. As if any charity or goodwill extended towards us is not only unwarranted, but unjustified. As if we do not deserve chances. That we should not take pride in our culture, that afrocentrism should not be a thing, that we should not be able to proclaim that our lives matter. Want to know why White Lives Matter isn't a thing? It's because you haven't been told for the past 500 fucking years that they do NOT matter. You want to laugh and say that racism does not exist, that we're 'all good now', but when have you done anything to right the wrongs of the past. You expect us to do it, you watch us struggle and you sneer. 'We set you free, why are you doing so poorly?' You set us free after enslaving us. You set us free, yes, but you set us behind too.

i think i already make my thoughs clear on this paragraf earlier in my 2 posts.

 

[~WastelandSociety~]

Not trolling right now with such a bait-able topic when you troll every other time? How convenient.

Even still, your own personal experience is only a fraction of the collective and you're not an objective person.

I'll be sure to ignore you next time then. I rarely acknowledge you as it is.

I don’t troll every time and I don’t leave out my personal opinion on the topic. I aim to make people salty,not to lie. If you want to assume what I say is a lie,then that’s your problem not mine. You’re not the brightest or important enough for me to lose sleep on not having your trust.


There’s plenty of people who had the same experience. If you don’t want to listen to someone who’s white, like some sjw moron, then I suggest reaching out to other races who will disagree with you as well.


You say that now,but I know overtime you wouldn’t be able to resist replying to my post. You told me last time that you were going to ignore me yet you ended up replying minutes later. So obviously what I say bothers you enough to not follow up on your own word.
So you better start ignoring me otherwise you are the one who’s lying.

 

[Yeah right]

Why has no one connected the dots about Trump? He might kill people to sway voters approval.

 

[Punk Hazard]

So i said you're full of shit cause you think you're in an ivory tower and you clearly only care about gratification, winning arguments, and acting like you're smarter than anyone, like your buddy Lightbringer whose been doing nothing but insulting me all this time but all of a sudden oh no i resort to bad insults. Get fucked. You're the one proving me right.

I didn’t degrade you for using insults. I degraded you for complaining about being insulted when instead of debated properly, and pointed out your hypocrisy.