[Discussion] Do you think Sanji could've handled Kaku easier then Zoro

[Vandenre1ch]

Why should I say that when the portrayal actually support the contrary. Zoro was on defense because his opponent is strong not because he choose to waste time or something. Sanji himself hyped their battle to be devastating enough to destroy the tower of justice which is something you wouldn't find in Sanji VS Jyabra. Even their feats aren't on the same level to began with.

What is special about Kaku is that he's a well versed fighter in all fields. He's skilled everything Jyabra has to offer and he has swordsmanship on top of it. Jyabra isn't best martial artist among Cp9. I don't even get where you get that but something like that never stated or implied in manga. Furthermore, Jyabra doesn't have the best tekkai, it's just that he has better mastery over it. The strongest tekkai user of Cp9 was Lucci followed by Kaku. Apart from being more experienced than Kaku, Jyabra displayed nothing that makes him look like someone with better mastery over his fruit. If anything Kaku had far better display of his fruit than Jyabra.

I am not even sure about what you're implying in your last paragraph. Sanji's intelligence accounts for nothing against Zoro when both of them are straight forward fighters.



Unlike us the fans those who provide information for DB's have no reason to be biased towards selective characters. I won't take DB for granted but they at least provide more balanced and unbiased arguments than us for sure.

I was referring to how Zoro fans twist info in the databook(info in general for that matter) to support their argument. Nowhere in the databook does it say Zoro and Luffy are equals and only referred to their brute strength. However, Zoro fans still take it as Luffy=Zoro which contradicts the manga.

 

[Bogard]

I was referring to how Zoro fans twist info in the databook(info in general for that matter) to support their argument. Nowhere in the databook does it say Zoro and Luffy are equals and only referred to their brute strength. However, Zoro fans still take it as Luffy=Zoro which contradicts the manga.

There were 2databooks with the first one measuring the difference in their strenght and the second one outright stating they are equals. It wasn't an imagination

 

[A v i]

lol, well can't argue with stupid.

Just look at how Zoro dealt with Pica, it was hit and miss and he was playing whack a mole for hours. He finally relied on his pure strength to cut the whole thing up.

An intelligent fighter would've seen through the trick before it was to late and use a pin point strike to kick Pica out of the stone.

I love how you resort to use personal insults to feel better whenever you can't win an argument. About Pica, It doesn't matter how smart you're there is nothing you could do when your enemy is constantly running away from you before you make a move. Sanji of all people can never hope to beat Pica as quickly as Zoro.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

I love how you resort to use personal insults to feel better whenever you can't win an argument. About Pica, It doesn't matter how smart you're there is nothing you could do when your enemy is constantly running away from you before you make a move. Sanji of all people can never hope to beat Pica as quickly as Zoro.

I dolt Sanji literally sky walked a country in quick time to help his crew again doffy (last we seen him before then with viola in middle of city ..) he would blitz pica..if he ever came out of that golem ... Even then Sanji Shown to easily kick through stone with his Gatling like kicks hed defeat pica literally same way luffy would out speed and Gatling like attack to destroy the stone (tho luffy could do it quicker cuz of gear 3rd.) etc.. Zoro just can't catch fast chars... And pica running away Sanji would be able to catch him he ran 5000 meters under water no problem.

 

[A v i]

I dolt Sanji literally sky walked a country in quick time to help his crew again doffy (last we seen him before then with viola in middle of city ..) he would blitz pica..if he ever came out of that golem ... Even then Sanji Shown to easily kick through stone with his Gatling like kicks hed defeat pica literally same way luffy would out speed and Gatling like attack to destroy the stone (tho luffy could do it quicker cuz of gear 3rd.) etc.. Zoro just can't catch fast chars... And pica running away Sanji would be able to catch him he ran 5000 meters under water no problem.

Sanji didn't travel across the country. Viola left him at coast and given Law and co reached GB rather quickly without taking much time that too while running normally; I don't think the feat is as great as you're making it to be. Nonetheless, Sanji's indeed incredibly fast as you're implying him to be but the problems is that Sanji can straight out defeat Pica just by tagging him. He need charge up time to be able to pull strong enough attack to beat Pica which gives more than ample of time for Pica to escape. Moreover, Zoro was playing around with Pica for the most of the part as stated by Pica himself and Pica never showed himself when Zoro finally decided to end it.

So it ended up consuming more time than it actually needed to beat Pica. Luffy needed G3 just to destroy the head of the golem that to didn't completely destroy it so I doubt Sanji can destroy the golem like Zoro and corner Pica. Sanji not only lacks DC, he also lacks range to track down Pica. He needs to follow Pica while destroying the golem, Zoro however can just stand at a point and send flying slashes which'd take far less time than running behind Pica and destroying the part where Pica decides to hide. It'd give him more than ample of time to escape. It isn't just Zoro but any swordsman for that matter is a bad match up for People like Pica. Even Luffy couldn't beat him as quickly as Zoro let alone Sanji. It's because of the nature of their fighting styles not because Sanji's too weak to fight Pica or anything. And Of course Sanji lacks feats on the same level as what Zoro did against Pica.

 

[Love Cook]

Sanji didn't travel across the country. Viola left him at coast and given Law and co reached GB rather quickly without taking much time that too while running normally; I don't think the feat is as great as you're making it to be. Nonetheless, Sanji's indeed incredibly fast as you're implying him to be but the problems is that Sanji can straight out defeat Pica just by tagging him. He need charge up time to be able to pull strong enough attack to beat Pica which gives more than ample of time for Pica to escape. Moreover, Zoro was playing around with Pica for the most of the part as stated by Pica himself and Pica never showed himself when Zoro finally decided to end it.

So it ended up consuming more time than it actually needed to beat Pica. Luffy needed G3 just to destroy the head of the golem that to didn't completely destroy it so I doubt Sanji can destroy the golem like Zoro and corner Pica. Sanji not only lacks DC, he also lacks range to track down Pica. He needs to follow Pica while destroying the golem, Zoro however can just stand at a point and send flying slashes which'd take far less time than running behind Pica and destroying the part where Pica decides to hide. It'd give him more than ample of time to escape. It isn't just Zoro but any swordsman for that matter is a bad match up for People like Pica. Even Luffy couldn't beat him as quickly as Zoro let alone Sanji. It's because of the nature of their fighting styles not because Sanji's too weak to fight Pica or anything. And Of course Sanji lacks feats on the same level as what Zoro did against Pica.

Bollocks, Pica was just made out of stone. Don't hype it. Strawhats have been eating stone for breakfast since Alabasta arc.

Sanji would pin point him with his CoO (specialty) just dive in and shoot through the golem like an arrow.

Destroying Pica was done by King of Prodence, Don Chinjao, Luffy and Zoro. It's safe to say that Sanji is on a level where he can tear Pica down. But he wouldn't even need to. Sanji would understand the DF faster than Zoro did. Would be a different fight of Swordsman Pica against Sanji.

 

[A v i]

Bollocks, Pica was just made out of stone. Don't hype it. Strawhats have been eating stone for breakfast since Alabasta arc.

Sanji would pin point him with his CoO (specialty) just dive in and shoot through the golem like an arrow.

Destroying Pica was done by King of Prodence, Don Chinjao, Luffy and Zoro. It's safe to say that Sanji is on a level where he can tear Pica down. But he wouldn't even need to. Sanji would understand the DF faster than Zoro did. Would be a different fight of Swordsman Pica against Sanji.

Please, there is an astronomical difference b/w breaking rocks and destroying mountains. Look at Kinemon [

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] That was the reaction of someone that can cut through iron like butter. There is no authentic proof from manga to say that Pica can be sensed via COO. Zoro someone capable of sensing Caribou even when he's far away from him failed to pin point Pica even when he's right next to him. Moreover, Zoro almost always able to pin point Pica without any delay whenever he came out of rocks. And he was the one to point out the fact that Luffy didn't hit the actual body.

There is more to it than just being able to sense with COO. Even if we were to assume that he can be sensed with COO; There is no telling if Sanji is at a level where he could pin point Pica. Even if he can forcing him out of Golem is another story as Pica's speed inside Rocks is near instantaneous. He can very well avoid Sanji's attacks. Moreover Sanji lacks DC to destroy something as large as Pica's golem. Again even if Sanji is as capable as Zoro; he'd still struggle more as his fighting style couldn't allow him to level mountains in a flash like Zoro's. That being said Sanji isn't beating Pica with current feats let alone ending the game as quickly as Zoro. Of course Sanji should be able to beat him going by his portrayal.

 

[Love Cook]

Please, there is an astronomical difference b/w breaking rocks and destroying mountains. Look at Kinemon [

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] That was the reaction of someone that can cut through iron like butter. There is no authentic proof from manga to say that Pica can be sensed via COO. Zoro someone capable of sensing Caribou even when he's far away from him failed to pin point Pica even when he's right next to him. Moreover, Zoro almost always able to pin point Pica without any delay whenever he came out of rocks. And he was the one to point out the fact that Luffy didn't hit the actual body.

There is more to it than just being able to sense with COO. Even if we were to assume that he can be sensed with COO; There is no telling if Sanji is at a level where he could pin point Pica. Even if he can forcing him out of Golem is another story as Pica's speed inside Rocks is near instantaneous. He can very well avoid Sanji's attacks. Moreover Sanji lacks DC to destroy something as large as Pica's golem. Again even if Sanji is as capable as Zoro; he'd still struggle more as his fighting style couldn't allow him to level mountains in a flash like Zoro's. That being said Sanji isn't beating Pica with current feats let alone ending the game as quickly as Zoro. Of course Sanji should be able to beat him going by his portrayal.

1) When Luffy ran up Pica's arm with Ushi Zoro predicted by CoO where Pica would appear
2) Sanji > Zoro in terms of CoO so he most likely has better range and can do it more efficiently
3) Sanji has better mobility, can fly and is faster, he can get to the real body faster before it moves
4) Sanji doesn't need the same destructive capabilities as I said before, but you didn't read and just repeat yourself.
4B) Sanji can sky walk and do an anti manner kick course into the golem and pop Pica out with a pin point attack.
4C) Zoro was just guessing where he was until he was out of space to move in by eliminating the dead stone parts.
5) That is the difference between a Sanji fight and a Zoro fight. When Zoro is facing an obstacle he uses more power and Sanji walks around it.

So you basically just repeated yourself in that post and now you can go think of some other stuff that you can't back up.

Best thing in that post is probably that Pica can 'just' dodge Sanji. Because Pica was known for his nimble stone body and fast movements right.

 

[A v i]

1) When Luffy ran up Pica's arm with Ushi Zoro predicted by CoO where Pica would appear
2) Sanji > Zoro in terms of CoO so he most likely has better range and can do it more efficiently
3) Sanji has better mobility, can fly and is faster, he can get to the real body faster before it moves
4) Sanji doesn't need the same destructive capabilities as I said before, but you didn't read and just repeat yourself.
4B) Sanji can sky walk and do an anti manner kick course into the golem and pop Pica out with a pin point attack.
4C) Zoro was just guessing where he was until he was out of space to move in by eliminating the dead stone parts.
5) That is the difference between a Sanji fight and a Zoro fight. When Zoro is facing an obstacle he uses more power and Sanji walks around it.

So you basically just repeated yourself in that post and now you can go think of some other stuff that you can't back up.

Best thing in that post is probably that Pica can 'just' dodge Sanji. Because Pica was known for his nimble stone body and fast movements right.

Yes, he pin pointed his location when a part of him came out of rocks not when he's hiding inside Rocks. Moreover, Zoro said that only if

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know a way to actually beat him including at least Luffy in his statement implying that even Luffy doesn't know a way to beat Pica. If it can be solved with something as trivial as COO then at least Luffy or Law who at least has moderate knowledge on Pica would've mentioned it. There is no definitive proof from manga to say that Sanji's COO is better than Sanji's. Moreover, this is what I was referring to when I bought Caribou into the discussion. Zoro was able to sense him even when he was far away and there were walls b/w them but same Zoro couldn't pin point Pica as long as he's inside rocks even when he was right next to Zoro. IMO Pica can likely become one with stones and exhibit same kind of energy/aura or whatever it is enabling him to fool COO users. Once against there is no definitive proof to put Sanji above Zoro and range is not the problem as Zoro could sense him even when he's closer to Zoro than Caribou at FMI.

Sanji has better mobility and all but he still falls behind Zoro when it comes down to striking opponent. How much time it took Sanji to reach Kraken and how many hits Sanji had on it again? Zoro on the other hand sliced it's tentacle in six equal parts and it took far less time than Sanji. His strike was so fast that Kraken couldn't even notice it's tentacle being damaged even when it was destroyed by Zoro. No to mention the scale which greatly out classes that of Sanji. Even when their tried to attack Pacifista after their intro Zoro finished his business when Sanji is still in the middle of executing his attack even though both of them were trying to get the first hit on it.

And where would he use this anti manner kick? No matter how badly you look at it he should at least be able to pull attacks on G3 level to be able to destroy any given part of Pica's body given even grizzly magnum couldn't completely destroy Pica's head. Again Pica can simply get away from his location before Sanji can reach his location. There are times when you can't win a battle with speed alone and Pica's case of one of such. Sanji's mobility might allow him to avoid Pica's attacks but he certainly can't hope to force him out without enough power as every part in golems body requires G3 level DC to get destroyed.

Much of everything you said about me repeating myself can applied to you. In fact you're in an even worse condition than I am as your whole argument revolves around assumptions on top of assumptions.

 

[Love Cook]

Yes, he pin pointed his location when a part of him came out of rocks not when he's hiding inside Rocks. Moreover, Zoro said that only if

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know a way to actually beat him including at least Luffy in his statement implying that even Luffy doesn't know a way to beat Pica. If it can be solved with something as trivial as COO then at least Luffy or Law who at least has moderate knowledge on Pica would've mentioned it. There is no definitive proof from manga to say that Sanji's COO is better than Sanji's. Moreover, this is what I was referring to when I bought Caribou into the discussion. Zoro was able to sense him even when he was far away and there were walls b/w them but same Zoro couldn't pin point Pica as long as he's inside rocks even when he was right next to Zoro. IMO Pica can likely become one with stones and exhibit same kind of energy/aura or whatever it is enabling him to fool COO users. Once against there is no definitive proof to put Sanji above Zoro and range is not the problem as Zoro could sense him even when he's closer to Zoro than Caribou at FMI.

Sanji has better mobility and all but he still falls behind Zoro when it comes down to striking opponent. How much time it took Sanji to reach Kraken and how many hits Sanji had on it again? Zoro on the other hand sliced it's tentacle in six equal parts and it took far less time than Sanji. His strike was so fast that Kraken couldn't even notice it's tentacle being damaged even when it was destroyed by Zoro. No to mention the scale which greatly out classes that of Sanji. Even when their tried to attack Pacifista after their intro Zoro finished his business when Sanji is still in the middle of executing his attack even though both of them were trying to get the first hit on it.

And where would he use this anti manner kick? No matter how badly you look at it he should at least be able to pull attacks on G3 level to be able to destroy any given part of Pica's body given even grizzly magnum couldn't completely destroy Pica's head. Again Pica can simply get away from his location before Sanji can reach his location. There are times when you can't win a battle with speed alone and Pica's case of one of such. Sanji's mobility might allow him to avoid Pica's attacks but he certainly can't hope to force him out without enough power as every part in golems body requires G3 level DC to get destroyed.

Much of everything you said about me repeating myself can applied to you. In fact you're in an even worse condition than I am as your whole argument revolves around assumptions on top of assumptions.

Pff too tiring, baseless ungrounded rant that you already posted twice.

I think that means that you don't actually have valid points to counter common sense. I'm out.

 

[Panthalassa]

1) When Luffy ran up Pica's arm with Ushi Zoro predicted by CoO where Pica would appear
2) Sanji > Zoro in terms of CoO so he most likely has better range and can do it more efficiently
3) Sanji has better mobility, can fly and is faster, he can get to the real body faster before it moves
4) Sanji doesn't need the same destructive capabilities as I said before, but you didn't read and just repeat yourself.
4B) Sanji can sky walk and do an anti manner kick course into the golem and pop Pica out with a pin point attack.
4C) Zoro was just guessing where he was until he was out of space to move in by eliminating the dead stone parts.
5) That is the difference between a Sanji fight and a Zoro fight. When Zoro is facing an obstacle he uses more power and Sanji walks around it.

So you basically just repeated yourself in that post and now you can go think of some other stuff that you can't back up.

Best thing in that post is probably that Pica can 'just' dodge Sanji. Because Pica was known for his nimble stone body and fast movements right.

I like your posts most of the time, but here I don't think you're correct.

1) When merged with stone, no CoO can pinpoint Pica's location. Every time he was discovered was by 1. Sensing as he emerges. 2. Seeing the rock animate, or just slightly shaking.

2) Why do you take this as a fact?

3) That's true about mobility, Sanji has the fastest speed and mobility. But Zoro's attacks are ranged, I think it's about a tie in terms of who gets to him first.

4) True so far, I didn't read the rest of the argument.

4B) Like I said, there's no proof in the manga that he can pinpoint Pica. The kick is akin the final slice. The only thing differentiating the two was that Zoro needed help getting there, while Sanji would be able to Skywalk. The only other thing is strength, it's uncertain Sanji's kick would be as efficient in defeating Pica as Zoro's slash. I'm just going to say yes, sure, but that's my opinion, not a fact.

4C) That was pretty smart of him. And Sanji would have to, as per the manga. He certainly has the brain power, but would he be able to pull it off? You claim Sanji is less destructive, but that is not so. Sanji would shatter the Golem and Pica would just flee again, Zoro's clean cuts and patience were crucial in defeating Pica. Not so sure Sanji would have been able to do it.

5) That's also true, but, in this case, Pica's walking around skills were better than Sanji's. And Zoro's was more well equipped to battle him, even if both would have been able to defeat him with a final attack. I just don't think that, without Zoro's method, Sanji would have been able to land that final kick. Sanji would have, maybe, no problem lifting the golem off the air, and get to it in mid-air. But then he would have to land an attack that effectively shatters the rock, all of it, into chunks smaller than Pica's body, and I don't think he has shown enough strength or skill to achieve such a feat.

 

[A v i]

Pff too tiring, baseless ungrounded rant that you already posted twice.

I think that means that you don't actually have valid points to counter common sense. I'm out.

I wasn't changing arguments because that's what happened in manga and I can't really change anything that has already happened in canon. And I have no reason to continue the discussion if you're decided to quit. I actually thought that the debate would end with pointless insults. Thanks to for doing it at the beginning which'd save lots of time for both of us.

 

[lelerskates]

2) Sanji > Zoro in terms of CoO so he most likely has better range and can do it more efficiently

lol? prove it you lying dipshit

I love when fanboys give their characters nonexistent advantages that were never shown anywhere in the story. Fabricate more lies and Ill fabricate my **** into ya muthas ass. Fair trade i think.

 

[ToshiZO]

lmao.

 

[lelerskates]

lmao.

Who is Lmao and does he like pie?

 

[Love Cook]

lol? prove it you lying dipshit

I love when fanboys give their characters nonexistent advantages that were never shown anywhere in the story. Fabricate more lies and Ill fabricate my **** into ya muthas ass. Fair trade i think.

Not that hard dipshit.

Oda said so that CoO is Sanji's specialty. Look it up in the SBS.

So where I have facts you're still talking out of your ass. Bet you feel stupid now after your little rant. You don't even know how to use that limp noodle you internet warrior. Maybe if you would build up other relationships with girls besides your and my mother you wouldn't be condemned to live the life of a eternal basement virgin.

If you get better sources than Oda, please reply and tell me how wrong I am again. If not just piss off mate, you're not the first retard I dealt with since I've been here.

 

[A v i]

Not that hard dipshit.

Oda said so that CoO is Sanji's specialty. Look it up in the SBS.

So where I have facts you're still talking out of your ass. Bet you feel stupid now after your little rant. You don't even know how to use that limp noodle you internet warrior. Maybe if you would build up other relationships with girls besides your and my mother you wouldn't be condemned to live the life of a eternal basement virgin.

If you get better sources than Oda, please reply and tell me how wrong I am again. If not just piss off mate, you're not the first retard I dealt with since I've been here.

Spoiler

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I used to think the same but that's not how it works. Oda was referring to this^^^ when he said that Sanji's specialized in COO. He simply favors COO over COA and COC(If he can use it.) i.e. his mastery over COO is better than his mastery over COA and COC. That's what it means to be specialized in certain type of haki. Sanji can likely have better COO than Zoro but you can't use this particular reason to say that he's better.

 

[Love Cook]

Spoiler

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I used to think the same but that's not how it works. Oda was referring to this^^^ when he said that Sanji's specialized in COO. He simply favors COO over COA and COC(If he can use it.) i.e. his mastery over COO is better than his mastery over COA and COC. That's what it means to be specialized in certain type of haki. Sanji can likely have better COO than Zoro but you can't use this particular reason to say that he's better.

You're doing the exact same genius:

Sanji can likely have better COO than Zoro

That's no different than what I was saying, since it's not conclusive I used the word LIKELY.

This came directly from Oda and will be the closest thing of a direct comparison between the strawhats. But thanks for the history lesson.

 

[A v i]

You're doing the exact same genius:



That's no different than what I was saying, since it's not conclusive I used the word LIKELY.

This came directly from Oda and will be the closest thing of a direct comparison between the strawhats. But thanks for the history lesson.

You said that he likely has better range than Zoro after conforming that he has better COO. Reread your own history genius.

 

[lelerskates]

Not that hard dipshit.

Oda said so that CoO is Sanji's specialty. Look it up in the SBS.

So where I have facts you're still talking out of your ass. Bet you feel stupid now after your little rant. You don't even know how to use that limp noodle you internet warrior. Maybe if you would build up other relationships with girls besides your and my mother you wouldn't be condemned to live the life of a eternal basement virgin.

If you get better sources than Oda, please reply and tell me how wrong I am again. If not just piss off mate, you're not the first retard I dealt with since I've been here.

I don't have to prove it. You have to. You mentioned it, I called you out on it and now debate curtesy suggests you prove it. And Sanji has no feats to prove otherwise and just because he specializes in it doesn't mean his is better than Zoro's. It only means its Sanji's best Haki ability.

Youre just a Sanji fanboy. Get over it.