Do you think Hiruzen knows all MS techniques?

[Bogard]

It's stated that Hiruzen had knowledge/could use every technique in the leaf. We've seen that Danzo attempted to take Shisuis eye before the Uchiha massacre, which means his dojutsu was pretty well known at that moment. Danzo was Hiruzens rival, so it's safe to assume that he did knew about Shisuis MS also.

During the fight against Sasuke, Danzo was explaining that Itachis tsukuyomi was stronger, he even said also that he has same powers his brother has, which means Danzo already knew Itachis MS power, but we know that Itachi never came back to the leaf until when Hiruzen died, so it means he knew Itachis power since a while. So it means that Hiruzen knew his power also, right? Especially when we know that Itachi really respected Hiruzen:

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The respect was so great that Itachi even wanted him to protect Sasuke

So finally does it mean that Hiruzen really knew every MS technique? Did he really knew about every ninjutsu in the leaf? If it's true, as a hokage, he probably also created counters for it, right?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Knew of it, sure. Knew it, no,as he doesn't have MS.

 

[Divisor]

i dont think he knew about kamui...

 

[siyo]

Obviously, he knew about it since he fought alongside uchihas, he is also very knowledgeable- especially when it comes to Jutsu.

If I remember correctly it was even said that he could counter all MS and EMS techniques (Official fanbook 2), which wouldn't be surprising when Hashirma and Tobirama taught him in a time of war.

 

[Blaze Release]

Erm no. Nobody knew itachi had even awakened the ms at that time, though some uchiha's were suspicious of him. What danzo said about tsukuyomi/amaterasu to sasuke was info he got when itachi came back to the village and used these abilities.

Certain hiruzen wouldve knew of some ms abilities because of his sensei, hashirama and Tobirama. He would most likely know of madara's ms abilities. With shisui it was known. Ao echoed this and so did bee.

Siyo did you just try to use FANbook as a source :flaw:

EDIT: BTW Anbu take orders directly from the hokage and that is exactly what that image implies

 

[Unatural]

Maybe

 

[Bogard]

Obviously, he knew about it since he fought alongside uchihas, he is also very knowledgeable- especially when it comes to Jutsu.

If I remember correctly it was even said that he could counter all MS and EMS techniques (Official fanbook 2), which wouldn't be surprising when Hashirma and Tobirama taught him in a time of war.

Really? Never knew it. Do you have a link concerning the official fanbook?

Erm no. Nobody knew itachi had even awakened the ms at that time, though some uchiha's were suspicious of him. What danzo said about tsukuyomi/amaterasu to sasuke was info he got when itachi came back to the village and used these abilities.

Certain hiruzen wouldve knew of some ms abilities because of his sensei, hashirama and Tobirama. He would most likely know of madara's ms abilities. With shisui it was known. Ao echoed this and so did bee.

Maybe but Danzo seems to know about Uchihas a lot. He even knew about a forbidden technique like Izanagi, that not even many Uchihas were suppose to know, so it seems that Uchiha techniques were really known by those 2. Also how do you think Danzo managed to get the intel about Tsukuyomi when he came back? He wasn't even there, and it's not as if Tsunade or Kakashi like Danzo that much to begin to share informations with him. What's even strange is that he knew also Amaterasu and all the stuff, when only Jiraya saw this in part1 and sealed it. Again, not as if Jiraya could share info with Danzo

 

[siyo]

Erm no. Nobody knew itachi had even awakened the ms at that time, though some uchiha's were suspicious of him. What danzo said about tsukuyomi/amaterasu to sasuke was info he got when itachi came back to the village and used these abilities.

Certain hiruzen wouldve knew of some ms abilities because of his sensei, hashirama and Tobirama. He would most likely know of madara's ms abilities. With shisui it was known. Ao echoed this and so did bee.

Siyo did you just try to use FANbook as a source :flaw:

EDIT: BTW Anbu take orders directly from the hokage and that is exactly what that image implies

The official fanbook is written by Kishimoto himself. Do your research before making yourself look bad ,Blaze.

 

[Ōkami]

pretty sure he had a good knowledge of them except for Obito's unique to him ones acourse

 

[Blaze Release]

Maybe but Danzo seems to know about Uchihas a lot. He even knew about a forbidden technique like Izanagi, that not even many Uchihas were suppose to know, so it seems that Uchiha techniques were really known by those 2. Also how do you think Danzo managed to get the intel about Tsukuyomi when he came back? He wasn't even there, and it's not as if Tsunade or Kakashi like Danzo that much to begin to share informations with him. What's even strange is that he knew also Amaterasu and all the stuff, when only Jiraya saw this in part1 and sealed it. Again, not as if Jiraya could share info with Danzo

Izanagi was spammed by uchiha's of the past. That is a technique that elders will know about. Though after the uchiha massacre anybody could stray to the hideout and snoop. As for tsukuyomi it sasuke and kakashi were both affected and were treated by tsunade. Sure she isnt on good terms with danzo however i believe he got info on the technique. Jiraiya communicates with konoha, especially about akatsuki and im certain, amaterasu's info got passed onto danzo one way or another. Besides kakashi or yamato havent witnessed amaterasu and yet they knew what it was.

In the past only 2 people have awakened the ms, izuna and madara. So far it seems they had amaterasu, tsukuyomi and susano going by the DB entry for these techniques. Therefore its fair to say that tobirama/hashirama who has fought them would pass this info onto their students. However there are more ms techniques out there, ms techniques that madara/izuna didnt have and these are kamui/KA and im certain there are more technique's.

Sarutobi, like hashirama/tobirama would know of tsukuyomi, amaterasu and susano however as for kamui/ka im not sure. Sarutobi would know of ka though because it seems even people outside the village knew of it

The official fanbook is written by Kishimoto himself. Do your research before making yourself look bad ,Blaze.

Fair enough. Shame he didnt bother to add this bit to the DB which holds more than the fanbook. Seeme like the latter is a to keep the fans happy rather than anything

 

[siyo]

Anyway did a quick search and these are the facts I found (it was published in 2009):

Spoiler

* Rikudou was known as "Shinobi God"; Similar to Sarutobi's honorific title.
* Onoki is Sandaime Tsuchikage.
* Ei is Yondaime Raikage.
* Kurotsuchi is a female.
* Hidan is still alive.
* Zabuza attempted to assassinate Yondaime Mizukage.
* Terumi Mei is Godaime Mizukage.
* All the Jinchuuriki extracted are dead, except Gaara.
* Ninja cats can be summoned, but they are not as obedient as dogs.
* Darui's bloodline limit is confirmed.
* Shi's Genjutsu was a Lightning Release.
* Yondaime, who fought the Kyuubi, battled Madara as well.
* The Rinnegan techniques are all Doujutsu-based abilities.
* Kumogakure is the strongest village.
* Gaara's absolute defense is in good form, despite not being a Jinchuuriki.
* Yondaime, Sakumo, and Hanzo were heroes of war.
* Tsuchikage's Dust Release arranges molecules.
* Kankuro is the Sand's greatest puppeteer.
* Kumogakure prides Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Kenjutsu.

*Hiruzen in his Prime was able to counter every Leaf Jutsu in Existance including all MS and EMS skills.

* When fighting Hashirama, Madara did not have his Time/Space Jutsu.





Village Rankings by Esponer
Konoha:

Population 5/5
Military strength 3/5
Economic strength 2/5

Kiri:

Population 2/5
Military strength 3/5
Economic strength 2/5

Suna:

Population 2/5
Military strength 2/5
Economic strength 2/5

Kumo:

Population 3/5
Military strength 4/5
Economic strength 5/5

Iwa:

Population 4/5
Military strength 4/5
Economic strength 2/5

Probably here we learned that Konoha was no longer the strongest village.

Madara is by far the most powerful Uchiha ever, yet his tsukuyomi was countered by Hashirama , who, coincidentally, taught Hiruzen.

 

[partha420]

LOL...Maybe yes,maybe no..

 

[thegame]

He's probably the man, along with Onoki, that has seen most jutsu, and can use most jutsu in the shinobi world U_U (neglecting the so6p ofc..)

And since Hashirama saw Susano, Hiru was probably told about it. It's even likely he has seen susano himself since they were villagers of same village for some time U_U

He probably didn't know of Obitos kamui, but honestly who would know about it? Very little.. And surely he knew about shisuis ability U_U

So my conclusion is that YES he knew about every leaf jutsu during his lifetime, but I don't think he developed counters for it. He is the man that trusts and loves his citizens more than anything, none of them would want to hurt him, even not the uchiha. So it's not like he would believe that he would need any counters. But the man probably has more counters than any other shinobi in this world.

 

[thegame]

Anyway did a quick search and these are the facts I found (it was published in 2009):



Probably here we learned that Konoha was no longer the strongest village.

Madara is by far the most powerful Uchiha ever, yet his tsukuyomi was countered by Hashirama , who, coincidentally, taught Hiruzen.

Well they were never said to be the strongest, it was said that the hokage was the strongest kage, so sort of the same though xD but as Iwa and Kumo was usually their main enemy and they lacked strong jutsu like sharingan and byakugan, so they needed more military power, but it's not the amount of military power that decides a war. It's the ability to use what you have in the most efficient way. Which the Nara clan has made sure off through many generations, and ofc the yellow flash was an army alone..

 

[Blaze Release]

Op to make it simple to digest, even if we were to ignore the DB which doesnt state this and go by the FB, it limits hiruzen, like hashirama/Tobirama to tsukuyomi, amaterasu and susano simply because those are the techniques that the uchiha brother's, madara and izuna wouldve used.

However after them there have been more ms users out there. Tobirama/hashirama would know of the three above, however they have no clue on ka/kamui because the two ms users they fought didnt have these abilities therefore the info they wouldve passed to sarutobi would not include kamui/KA though i did say hiruzen would know of ka.

You have to remember that only uchiha knew the location of the hideout and even then adult uchiha's since sasuke had no clue about it;

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To read the basics you will need the sharingan and to decrypt it further you'll need to go through the advanced forms of the sharingan. Its almost impossible for anybody else to read/decrypt it without their eyes;

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To say hiruzen knew of ms technique's is invalid unless he is a fortune teller. Also like somebody to explain how he would know of kamui when not even hashirama/tobirama wouldve known of it

 

[Bogard]

Izanagi was spammed by uchiha's of the past. That is a technique that elders will know about. Though after the uchiha massacre anybody could stray to the hideout and snoop. As for tsukuyomi it sasuke and kakashi were both affected and were treated by tsunade. Sure she isnt on good terms with danzo however i believe he got info on the technique. Jiraiya communicates with konoha, especially about akatsuki and im certain, amaterasu's info got passed onto danzo one way or another. Besides kakashi or yamato havent witnessed amaterasu and yet they knew what it was.

Not really. Jiraya doesn't communicate with Konoha. The one he communicate with are Tsunade and Kakashi. Someone like Naruto or Sakura seemed to have never even heard about Tsukuyomi when Kakashi warned them when they met his clone in part2. Naruto was even there when Itachi used Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, yet he had no knowledge about how Tsukuyomi really worked. I don't think i've even seen Jiraya meeting/talking with Danzo even once in the entire manga. So i really doubt Danzo got this information. Especially after i read this page:

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Danzo says: "Amaterasu, haven't seen that in a while", which means he already saw Amaterasu at least once, so he knew it probably from Itachi, maybe he saw it during the Uchiha massacre? Who knows?

 

[Blaze Release]

Not really. Jiraya doesn't communicate with Konoha. The one he communicate with are Tsunade and Kakashi. Someone like Naruto or Sakura seemed to have never even heard about Tsukuyomi when Kakashi warned them when they met his clone in part2. Naruto was even there when Itachi used Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, yet he had no knowledge about how Tsukuyomi really worked. I don't think i've even seen Jiraya meeting/talking with Danzo even once in the entire manga. So i really doubt Danzo got this information. Especially after i read this page:

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Danzo says: "Amaterasu, haven't seen that in a while", which means he already saw Amaterasu at least once, so he knew it probably from Itachi, maybe he saw it during the Uchiha massacre? Who knows?

To be honest once he says in a while that leaves this wide open basically saying itachi wouldve used it when danzo was close, which doesnt sound like itachi, but also he isnt the one to use ms techniques like that. Then there is the idea that not even his clansmen knew of his ms, but also his chakra as a kid might not grant him this feat. As for the massacre it might be true that he used it and that is where danzo found out, but when itachi left he didnt set the place on fire, if anything sasuke was able to go back there and read the monument. Also why would he light the place up with fire that cannot be extinguished which burns for 7 days/nights. There are many inconsistencies in this manga, but since danzo has said he hasnt seen it in a while, i guess kid itachi, before he left the village was able to use amaterasu. Something that im surprised about because of his reserves. Kakashi was surprised when sasuke demostrated a c rank katon jutsu and said a genin shouldnt have this reserves and sasuke was 13. If itachi can use amaterasu, around 12/13 then there is something wrong

 

[thegame]

IF and only IF Sasuke really has Tsukuyomi his uses of it proves it is possible to break out of it, since Danzo easily did that. This would only make sense, as long as you are prepared you can break it pretty fast from inside the genjutsu, which is the only possibility when it comes to tsukuyomi since it takes such a small amount of time in the "real" world..

So IF this is the case that it is actually possible, it was obvious that Kakashi was unprepared thinking his sharingan alone would be enough to withstand it, so he was pathetic and defenseless in that situation, so that can't prove anything. Hiruzen, however, would be at least at Danzos level in this matter, so he would probably also be able to crack even Itachis tsukuyomi. Danzo probably could do the same, but with more difficulty since he actually said that sasukes was weaker, so he must have seen even itachis tsukuyomi, meaning he must have been able to counter it..

 

[thegame]

To be honest once he says in a while that leaves this wide open basically saying itachi wouldve used it when danzo was close, which doesnt sound like itachi, but also he isnt the one to use ms techniques like that. Then there is the idea that not even his clansmen knew of his ms, but also his chakra as a kid might not grant him this feat. As for the massacre it might be true that he used it and that is where danzo found out, but when itachi left he didnt set the place on fire, if anything sasuke was able to go back there and read the monument. Also why would he light the place up with fire that cannot be extinguished which burns for 7 days/nights. There are many inconsistencies in this manga, but since danzo has said he hasnt seen it in a while, i guess kid itachi, before he left the village was able to use amaterasu. Something that im surprised about because of his reserves. Kakashi was surprised when sasuke demostrated a c rank katon jutsu and said a genin shouldnt have this reserves and sasuke was 13. If itachi can use amaterasu, around 12/13 then there is something wrong

Itachi was an utter genius above anything ever seen in Konoha. Only the yellow flash probably comes near him, and perhaps Kakashi, but he was promoted during war time, so it kinda doesn't count, since they just needed mass military as fast as possible.

Don't be surprised. He could most likely use amaterasu the moment he awakened MS - when he was 13. Just like we just saw Obito instantly being able to use his MS ability.. Cheat no jutsu requires no skill obviously, but still if his tsukuyomi was that strong as he just obtained it that would be very strange - compared to sasukes no being..

 

[Blaze Release]

Itachi was an utter genius above anything ever seen in Konoha. Only the yellow flash probably comes near him, and perhaps Kakashi, but he was promoted during war time, so it kinda doesn't count, since they just needed mass military as fast as possible.

Don't be surprised. He could most likely use amaterasu the moment he awakened MS - when he was 13. Just like we just saw Obito instantly being able to use his MS ability.. Cheat no jutsu requires no skill obviously, but still if his tsukuyomi was that strong as he just obtained it that would be very strange - compared to sasukes no being..

Its not his genius i doubt but his reserves especially as a kid. Reserves usually go up when you get older the decreases when you get to 55+ or around that age. Op you might not know this but you have given me an idea, lmao . Looks itachi wasnt born with low chakra reserves after all if he can use ms techniques at that age, heck his reserves wouldve been above average for that age, which could mean his illness mustve contributed