[Discussion] Do you think gorosei are high tier fighters

[Sagebee]

Or have no battle capabilities and can only orchestrate what's going on in the background

 

[LBeezy]

I have no idea..

but with the one carrying a sword all the time, it does make it seem like they can fight..

I don't mind either way though tbh..

 

[YellowFang]

Maybe none of them, maybe few of them and maybe all of them...

I don't want them to be high-tier fighters, just corrupt politicians... Navy being their main force and CP being their secret force.
But it won't hurt if one or two of them can fight on VA's level.

 

[HashiraMadara]

I would have picked them to be corrupt politicians but the way they carry themselves it seems they are combatants. One carries a sword, always serious complementing a Zoro and the other stands with a Sanji-like stature(long legs, hands in the pocket, relatively youthful looking).

 

[Caliburn]

One of them is always carrying a katana of which I'm nearly certain it's either Shodai or Nidai Kitetsu. Another one has got quite the scar on the left side of his face. So that most of them used to be quite the powerhouses is very well possible, however that they are still is sincerely doubtful as they are all old men now. You can draw parallels here with characters like Garp and Sengoku: still now how to fight, however they are not anymore what they used to be during their heyday.

 

[Dannie]

They better be, or otherwise it might as well be the admirals above the world government.

 

[HashiraMadara]

One of them is always carrying a katana of which I'm nearly certain it's either Shodai or Nidai Kitetsu. Another one has got quite the scar on the left side of his face. So that most of them used to be quite the powerhouses is very well possible, however that they are still is sincerely doubtful as they are all old men now. You can draw parallels here with characters like Garp and Sengoku: still now how to fight, however they are not anymore what they used to be during their heyday.

Do you think Shodai Kitetsu > Yoru?(I know it has no feats just asking)

 

[Caliburn]

Do you think Shodai Kitetsu > Yoru?(I know it has no feats just asking)

They're both part of the 12 Supreme Great Swords, which means they're both high-quality swords of the same level. And up till now none of the known Meito had any kind of special abilities, so asking which one is the best between two swords of the same grade is redundant as it all depends on the skill of swordsmen who are wielding them. The stronger the swordsman, the more potential it can draw out from the sword.

 

[chopstickchakra]

They're both part of the 12 Supreme Great Swords, which means they're both high-quality swords of the same level. And up till now none of the known Meito had any kind of special abilities, so asking which one is the best between two swords of the same grade is redundant as it all depends on the skill of swordsmen who are wielding them. The stronger the swordsman, the more potential it can draw out from the sword.

Um you can have things be better than others and still be in the same grade. A 93 is an A and so is a 100 but a 100 is clearly better than a 93. There could still be a ranking of 1-12 within the 12 supreme great swords.

 

[HashiraMadara]

They're both part of the 12 Supreme Great Swords, which means they're both high-quality swords of the same level. And up till now none of the known Meito had any kind of special abilities, so asking which one is the best between two swords of the same grade is redundant as it all depends on the skill of swordsmen who are wielding them. The stronger the swordsman, the more potential it can draw out from the sword.

Yoru was named the hardest sword in the world so same grade doesn't necessarily mean it's user dependent

 

[Caliburn]

Um you can have things be better than others and still be in the same grade. A 93 is an A and so is a 100 but a 100 is clearly better than a 93. There could still be a ranking of 1-12 within the 12 supreme great swords.

That logic only applies if there is another grading scale within the grading scale as otherwise it's, as I said, redundant because if there would be any differences, they would be so small they're insignificant. I doubt having been graded 93.001 would be that much different than being graded 93.002.

Considering that there is as far as we know no secondary grading scale, we can conclude that the 12 Great Swords have more or less the same quality and I sincerely doubt Oda is going to find it necessary to add a secondary as that brings forth several unnecessary practical issues that are really not worth it.

Yoru was named the hardest sword in the world so same grade doesn't necessarily mean it's user dependent

So? The Kitetsu swords are renown for their sharpness, so it's possible that Shodai Kitetsu dons the title of "the sharpest sword in the world", but that has little importance. As clearly said many users of the Kitetsu swords died miserably while Zoro seems to have no issue with it. A sword is nothing more than a sharpened piece of metal. In the hands of an amateur it might as well be a mediocre weapon, no matter how hard or sharp it is. If you can't use it properly, it's useless.

 

[chopstickchakra]

That logic only applies if there is another grading scale within the grading scale as otherwise it's, as I said, redundant because if there would be any differences, they would be so small they're insignificant. I doubt having been graded 93.001 would be that much different than being graded 93.002.

Considering that there is as far as we know no secondary grading scale, we can conclude that the 12 Great Swords have more or less the same quality and I sincerely doubt Oda is going to find it necessary to add a secondary as that brings forth several unnecessary practical issues that are really not worth it.



So? The Kitetsu swords are renown for their sharpness, so it's possible that Shodai Kitetsu dons the title of "the sharpest sword in the world", but that has little importance. As clearly said many users of the Kitetsu swords died miserably while Zoro seems to have no issue with it. A sword is nothing more than a sharpened piece of metal. In the hands of an amateur it might as well be a mediocre weapon, no matter how hard or sharp it is. If you can't use it properly, it's useless.

Who says what the difference would be? You? ok. And the difference between the bottom of the 12 and the top of the 12 could be the difference between life and death.

 

[Caliburn]

Who says what the difference would be? You? ok. And the difference between the bottom of the 12 and the top of the 12 could be the difference between life and death.

The me who based that on common sense and reason, unlike you whose only intention seems to be causing an argument for the sake of causing an argument rather than saying anything meaningful.

You already seem to have completely forgotten that the scale used is centered around the quality of the swords. And that below the 12 Supreme Grade Swords you have the 21 Great Grade Swords and under that the 50 Skillful Grade Swords and under that the Grade Swords. Now it's unknown how many swords actually fall under the latter category, however it's doubtful that it would be that much compared to the total amount of swords in the OPverse. All the swords that are categorized in one of the grades would probably make up less than 1% of all the swords that exist. And the 12 SGS represent themselves only a fraction of that 1%. They are the best of the best, the crème de la crème when it comes to quality swords and they are what remains when you have selected away every other sword in the world. If Oda found it important to make even a difference after all that and wanted to have a numerical ordering, he wouldn't have divided them into groups in the first place as if you have a numerical order, the scaling into groups becomes pointless and it implies that the skill of the swordsman is rather limited and that a large part of their success is based on having the luck to end up with a grade sword.

Oda actually elaborated quite a lot on the entire concept of swords and swordsmen throughout the series. If you don't focus on it, you might look passed it, but it's very well there and one of the things Oda has always emphasized strongly is the skill of the swordsman. Mihawk took Zoro for a loop with a puny dagger while Zoro was using three swords one of which was one of the 21 GGS. Following your logic Zoro should have won that easily as he was using a sword far superior in quality. And when Mihawk used his Black Sword, Wado Ichimonji was the only sword that remained unscathed despite it still was of a lower grade. Mihawk himself said that the damage a sword receives is shameful for the swordsman and that the better the swordsman is, the less the sword will be damaged. Then you also have the issue of compatibility as it has been implied several times that some swords have personalities and somewhat a will of their own.

So yeah if two swordsmen using one of the 12 SGS would fight, any kind of quality difference between the swords would be completely redundant and certainly are not going to make a life and death difference, that's something that will be determined by the skill of the respective swordsmen and their resolve. There should already be a ridiculously huge quality gap to make a life and death difference. The reality that till further notice Shanks was able to block Akainu and go toe to toe with Mihawk with a rather standard sword is a prime example.

 

[Sagebee]

One of them is always carrying a katana of which I'm nearly certain it's either Shodai or Nidai Kitetsu. Another one has got quite the scar on the left side of his face. So that most of them used to be quite the powerhouses is very well possible, however that they are still is sincerely doubtful as they are all old men now. You can draw parallels here with characters like Garp and Sengoku: still now how to fight, however they are not anymore what they used to be during their heyday.

They might not be as strong as in their heyday doesn't mean they still aren't powerhouses

 

[chopstickchakra]

The me who based that on common sense and reason, unlike you whose only intention seems to be causing an argument for the sake of causing an argument rather than saying anything meaningful.

You already seem to have completely forgotten that the scale used is centered around the quality of the swords. And that below the 12 Supreme Grade Swords you have the 21 Great Grade Swords and under that the 50 Skillful Grade Swords and under that the Grade Swords. Now it's unknown how many swords actually fall under the latter category, however it's doubtful that it would be that much compared to the total amount of swords in the OPverse. All the swords that are categorized in one of the grades would probably make up less than 1% of all the swords that exist. And the 12 SGS represent themselves only a fraction of that 1%. They are the best of the best, the crème de la crème when it comes to quality swords and they are what remains when you have selected away every other sword in the world. If Oda found it important to make even a difference after all that and wanted to have a numerical ordering, he wouldn't have divided them into groups in the first place as if you have a numerical order, the scaling into groups becomes pointless and it implies that the skill of the swordsman is rather limited and that a large part of their success is based on having the luck to end up with a grade sword.

Oda actually elaborated quite a lot on the entire concept of swords and swordsmen throughout the series. If you don't focus on it, you might look passed it, but it's very well there and one of the things Oda has always emphasized strongly is the skill of the swordsman. Mihawk took Zoro for a loop with a puny dagger while Zoro was using three swords one of which was one of the 21 GGS. Following your logic Zoro should have won that easily as he was using a sword far superior in quality. And when Mihawk used his Black Sword, Wado Ichimonji was the only sword that remained unscathed despite it still was of a lower grade. Mihawk himself said that the damage a sword receives is shameful for the swordsman and that the better the swordsman is, the less the sword will be damaged. Then you also have the issue of compatibility as it has been implied several times that some swords have personalities and somewhat a will of their own.

So yeah if two swordsmen using one of the 12 SGS would fight, any kind of quality difference between the swords would be completely redundant and certainly are not going to make a life and death difference, that's something that will be determined by the skill of the respective swordsmen and their resolve. There should already be a ridiculously huge quality gap to make a life and death difference. The reality that till further notice Shanks was able to block Akainu and go toe to toe with Mihawk with a rather standard sword is a prime example.

Yea, I'm the one looking to argue, not the guy who says "there can only be one option to this question that can't be answered by us fans and it has to be the one I think of." Right.

"Following your logic Zoro should have won that easily" where did I say it was the only factor? I never said the skill of the swordsman didn't matter at all, I said it's possible the top 12 also have an order to them. You keep trying to add users and turn it into a duel but if you gave the same swordsman each of the 12 swords there would be an order from 1 to 12 on the best sword and it may be subjective but there would still be an order. If a blacksmith made 100 swords and picked his 10 best that doesn't mean they're all equal blades it means they're all comparable blades one of those 10 could be noticeably above the other 9 and all 10 still be above any other sword he made.

You're wrong, but you'll never admit it so we're done here.