Do the Wooden Homonculi Zetsu have superior bodies to Hashirama?

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The physical quality of Hashirama came about as a combination of his clan powers (strong vitality) and his ancestral spirit residing in him.

This combination of physical vitality and superior spirit allowed him to create high quality composite energy which in turn further influenced his body to be very lively over time
.

The connection between his spirit and his body is seen in that even those who graft significant amounts of his cells into their own bodies have to suppress his will (which is a spiritual quality) and gain powers based on his composite energy, which includes spirit energy. Them also having his face meeting from them tells of it that his complete self (body and spirit) is in them, and not just his physical cells.

In light of these reasons, it makes sense for the homonculi to have superior bodies.

Firstly, the Senju clan are not only bearing miniscule portions of the physical vitality of their ancestor (dilution of genetics over time), but said vitality is based on their ancestor. On the other hand, the homonculi come about because of the influence of the Ten Tails. The TT creates them by taking normal people and exchanging energy with them over time. The TT takes back the composite energy from them, while exposing them to its own natural energy. As we know, natural energy causes flesh to change form according to its quality. With the physical body of the TT being so vastly superior to even natural wood (which is much tougher than mortal bodies) due to the influence of NE over it, those who are physically morphed towards the same state will be much tougher than normal people. With the TT also being vastly superior than the ancestor of the Senju in physicality, the homonculi have a vastly superior source to their quality than the Senju. Them tending towards the TT while the Senju become diluted over time also gives reason for the homonculi to be physically stronger. The fact that the homonculi had been inside the Heretic Statue for millennia also means that they have been maintaining their influence of NE and not getting diluted.

Secondly, the output of Hashirama comes down to his superior spirit, not physicality, over the homonculi. Hashirama being an actual living person, particularly boosted by his ancestral spirit, means that the quality of composite energy he outputs will outweigh someone physically comparable but with a weaker spirit. The homonculi are not only with weaker spirit, but most of them do not even have a spirit of their own, as they are practically clones grown from miniscule cells of the originals. Them simply using the energy of their victims to grow out their bodies maintains their physical quality, but greatly diluted their spirit. Them being so easily controlled by the originals clearly shows they have almost no will power, which implies a lack of spirit energy. So with energy constructs being based on composite energy which includes spirit energy, the homonculi easily fall behind Hashirama as he has a vastly superior spirit. Even then, when a homonculus was able to take over Yamato, who himself only has a few cells of Hashirama, it crafted a Five Headed Wooden Giant of decent size, a tangible fraction of what Hashirama could do. With the ratio between the spirit of Hashirama and that of the homonculi being so vast and the portion of Hashirama that Yamato had compared to the full Hashirama being astronomical (a few cells vs a full body), the size of the giant can only be explained by the homonculus having had a better enough physical energy input (to Hashirama) to boost the size of the giant. See, whatever boost that Yamato gave the homonculus was still miniscule compared to Hashirama himself, so his wooden giant should have been an equivalent fraction in size (cell vs full body) compared to the Thousand Hands Giant that Hashirama can create - assuming equal physical quality. That would probably amount to the size of a hand of a person. So when the homonculus only has that much spirit from Hashirama (and practically none from itself, or as much as the original person it came from had), it has to have a vastly superior physical energy than Hashirama in order for the size ratio between their constructs to be smaller than the ratio in their spirit energy.

Thirdly, physical evidence supports the homonculi being superior. We have Obito, as a teenager, being able to physically destroy a giant boudler after getting covered in the homonculus. Hashirama, on the other hand, has no such physical power showings. We also have Obito, against Minato, being barely scratched by a Rasengan, a technique which can tear metal and completely bore through the flesh of Kabuto when he had soldier pills. Hashirama is known for his recovery, not his durability. We also the ability of the homonculi to absorb composite energy being used safely on Kurama, whose energy is normally extremely toxic to normal flesh. Hashirama himself only ever suppressed tailed beast energy, he never absorbed it. Even then, it was with his wooden constructs, not through direct contact with his own skin.

Finally, we have reasoning. Besides the evidence, the homonculi are literally wooden. Wood is naturally tougher than flesh. Then, while life force is debatable in terms of being a spiritual or physical derivative, the homonculi being able to spawn from the smallest plant material in the environment is a far greater life force achievement than Hashirama, who simply recovers body parts with a much more complete body. After that, the ability of the homonculi to assume any physical form of someone whose energy they have been exposed to means that they can always convert into someone tougher if need be, although that is a cheap shot as this thread is about their physical natural state. Of course, whether Hashirama could defeat them in close combat is practically irrelevant because that has more to do with speed, intelligence and talent more than the quality of the flesh of the fighters. Minato vs Jonin Raikage is an easy example.

While I am not sure, the fact that the reanimated Homage were able to do things against a Ten Tails Host in Obito may have something to do with the fact that they were reanimated into homonculi bodies, since their living selves scale far below the TT.

What say you?
 
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minamoto

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good thread !!!!...

there was manga panel where it was stated zetsus are weaker clones of hashirama..

but anyway u r talking about wooden homonculi of white zesu right???...but dont forget that this wooden homonculi was result of MUGEN SUKOYOMI...

still u might be right...cuz white zesus are still mysterious mystery that puzzled Madara..and even orochimaru...

also isn't gedo mazo wooden empty shell??? (god tree and all)..
 
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good thread !!!!...

there was manga panel where it was stated zetsus are weaker clones of hashirama..

but anyway u r talking about wooden homonculi of white zesu right???...but dont forget that this wooden homonculi was result of MUGEN SUKOYOMI...

still u might be right...cuz white zesus are still mysterious mystery that puzzled Madara..and even orochimaru...


also isn't gedo mazo wooden empty shell??? (god tree and all)..
I think the Hashirama clone theory is character opinion, probably influenced by Madara boosting them with his cells.

They are MT consequences as far as I am aware.

Yes. The body of the TT, while the nine tailed beasts are its soul/spirit. Said shell still has its energy, as shown by Madara sustaining himself through it
 
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minamoto

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I think the Hashirama clone theory is character opinion, probably influenced by Madara boosting them with his cells.

They are MT consequences as far as I am aware.

Yes. The body of the TT, while the nine tailed beasts are its soul/spirit. Said shell still has its energy, as shown by Madara sustaining himself through it
i believe spiral zesu was madara's creation..
 

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The physical quality of Hashirama came about as a combination of his clan powers (strong vitality) and his ancestral spirit residing in him.

This combination of physical vitality and superior spirit allowed him to create high quality composite energy which in turn further influenced his body to be very lively over time
.

The connection between his spirit and his body is seen in that even those who graft significant amounts of his cells into their own bodies have to suppress his will (which is a spiritual quality) and gain powers based on his composite energy, which includes spirit energy. Them also having his face meeting from them tells of it that his complete self (body and spirit) is in them, and not just his physical cells.

In light of these reasons, it makes sense for the homonculi to have superior bodies.

Firstly, the Senju clan are not only bearing miniscule portions of the physical vitality of their ancestor (dilution of genetics over time), but said vitality is based on their ancestor. On the other hand, the homonculi come about because of the influence of the Ten Tails. The TT creates them by taking normal people and exchanging energy with them over time. The TT takes back the composite energy from them, while exposing them to its own natural energy. As we know, natural energy causes flesh to change form according to its quality. With the physical body of the TT being so vastly superior to even natural wood (which is much tougher than mortal bodies) due to the influence of NE over it, those who are physically morphed towards the same state will be much tougher than normal people. With the TT also being vastly superior than the ancestor of the Senju in physicality, the homonculi have a vastly superior source to their quality than the Senju. Them tending towards the TT while the Senju become diluted over time also gives reason for the homonculi to be physically stronger. The fact that the homonculi had been inside the Heretic Statue for millennia also means that they have been maintaining their influence of NE and not getting diluted.

Secondly, the output of Hashirama comes down to his superior spirit, not physicality, over the homonculi. Hashirama being an actual living person, particularly boosted by his ancestral spirit, means that the quality of composite energy he outputs will outweigh someone physically comparable but with a weaker spirit. The homonculi are not only with weaker spirit, but most of them do not even have a spirit of their own, as they are practically clones grown from miniscule cells of the originals. Them simply using the energy of their victims to grow out their bodies maintains their physical quality, but greatly diluted their spirit. Them being so easily controlled by the originals clearly shows they have almost no will power, which implies a lack of spirit energy. So with energy constructs being based on composite energy which includes spirit energy, the homonculi easily fall behind Hashirama as he has a vastly superior spirit. Even then, when a homonculus was able to take over Yamato, who himself only has a few cells of Hashirama, it crafted a Five Headed Wooden Giant of decent size, a tangible fraction of what Hashirama could do. With the ratio between the spirit of Hashirama and that of the homonculi being so vast and the portion of Hashirama that Yamato had compared to the full Hashirama being astronomical (a few cells vs a full body), the size of the giant can only be explained by the homonculus having had a better enough physical energy input (to Hashirama) to boost the size of the giant. See, whatever boost that Yamato gave the homonculus was still miniscule compared to Hashirama himself, so his wooden giant should have been an equivalent fraction in size (cell vs full body) compared to the Thousand Hands Giant that Hashirama can create - assuming equal physical quality. That would probably amount to the size of a hand of a person. So when the homonculus only has that much spirit from Hashirama (and practically none from itself, or as much as the original person it came from had), it has to have a vastly superior physical energy than Hashirama in order for the size ratio between their constructs to be smaller than the ratio in their spirit energy.

Thirdly, physical evidence supports the homonculi being superior. We have Obito, as a teenager, being able to physically destroy a giant boudler after getting covered in the homonculus. Hashirama, on the other hand, has no such physical power showings. We also have Obito, against Minato, being barely scratched by a Rasengan, a technique which can tear metal and completely bore through the flesh of Kabuto when he had soldier pills. Hashirama is known for his recovery, not his durability. We also the ability of the homonculi to absorb composite energy being used safely on Kurama, whose energy is normally extremely toxic to normal flesh. Hashirama himself only ever suppressed tailed beast energy, he never absorbed it. Even then, it was with his wooden constructs, not through direct contact with his own skin.

Finally, we have reasoning. Besides the evidence, the homonculi are literally wooden. Wood is naturally tougher than flesh. Then, while life force is debatable in terms of being a spiritual or physical derivative, the homonculi being able to spawn from the smallest plant material in the environment is a far greater life force achievement than Hashirama, who simply recovers body parts with a much more complete body. After that, the ability of the homonculi to assume any physical form of someone whose energy they have been exposed to means that they can always convert into someone tougher if need be, although that is a cheap shot as this thread is about their physical natural state. Of course, whether Hashirama could defeat them in close combat is practically irrelevant because that has more to do with speed, intelligence and talent more than the quality of the flesh of the fighters. Minato vs Jonin Raikage is an easy example.

While I am not sure, the fact that the reanimated Homage were able to do things against a Ten Tails Host in Obito may have something to do with the fact that they were reanimated into homonculi bodies, since their living selves scale far below the TT.

What say you?
Good long thread ! But for nothing. Hashirama coukd body him without Sage Mode.
 

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Good long thread ! But for nothing. Hashirama coukd body him without Sage Mode.
Of course, whether Hashirama could defeat them in close combat is practically irrelevant because that has more to do with speed, intelligence and talent more than the quality of the flesh of the fighters. Minato vs Jonin Raikage is an easy example
 
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