[VS] DMS OBITO VS Nagato

[VongolaX]

horrible assumption?
Chakara amount needed is directly proportional to the size of an object.
To warp an object you need to build up chakra for that object's size,thats common knowledge.

Amaterasu produces that pressure because of the chakra buildup,and the pressure isnt immense at all,the only one to detect it are sensors,powerful ones.

To warp a person's head you will need to prepare chakra to do so,simple.

No, Kakashi said it numerous times that he needed concentration (hence why people cal it kamui snipe)

Point is, you can't go around calling the mechanics of one completely doujustu ninjustu towards another just because it suits your needs.

Kamui has been use a bunch of times, and no such fanfic of chakra build up sense has been notified or used in this manner.

As for Amatersu it's been stated three times of chakra build/pressure (zetsu, Nagato, and JJ Obito).

So use common sense, in such sense....You understand?

Kamui will lose its meaning everytime there is a chakra build up in the eyes.

Otherwise Byukagan, sharingan genjustu/all ninjustu, all rinnegan techniques such as shrina tensei/Ashura path/Animal path/Human path, and Outer path Gedo mazou will give off chakra build up by your logic.

 

[ARGUS]

are you factoring PS as to why he would win?,cuz i didnt factor it in.

Also i may not know obito too well,but isnt long range kamui basically his main offensive?,hiding in the chamelion would remove all problems of that wouldnt it?.

I havnt factored in PS,
however short range kamui and intangibility are the main reasons why obito wins this, nagato may be able to execute ST on time, but then obito can simply phase through his next attack and proceed to warp him during his cool down,
hidiing in the chameleon may be efffective,

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as obito can go intangible to prevent himself, and warp him the moment the cool down occurs, as apart from deva path techniques, none of nagatos techniques are fast enough to outmanoeuvre kamui

 

[synkross]

DMS Obito wins, Nagato is a power house but has nothing to put down Obito while Obito can 1 shot.... powers are broken, beating him with sheer force is not possible.

 

[moihican]

I havnt factored in PS,
however short range kamui and intangibility are the main reasons why obito wins this, nagato may be able to execute ST on time, but then obito can simply phase through his next attack and proceed to warp him during his cool down,
hidiing in the chameleon may be efffective,

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as obito can go intangible to prevent himself, and warp him the moment the cool down occurs, as apart from deva path techniques, none of nagatos techniques are fast enough to outmanoeuvre kamui

obito countering an ST with intangibility wont happen for 3 reasons
- ST happens practically instantly,kamui isnt an autonatic move,obito has to actually see the attack coming before he can use his kamui. There is no way he can see an ST coming as its effects are basically instant

- he wont know where to make intangible,he dosent know where nagato will aim,it may be his head,his body,his leg etc. Intangibility means warping parts of your body,but ST isnt something like a projectile attack,you cant see it coming,so how would he know which parts to warp and which parts to keep?,even if he can somehow see ST coming,he wont know where it is coming too

- ST can be used affect the whole body,in which case it is useless to actually use intangibility as it will hit regardless and even have a greater impact as the body mass to suck up the blow is reduced. Nagato has intel on kamui,so he will most likely use this one too

so basically,obito cant react to it,cant tell where to make intangible,and cant go intangible to full body attack.

Kabuto was controlling nagato then,he had no idea

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completely unaffecting asura there.

His asura paths abilities can be activated instantly,if obito gets close,he can have 6 arms waiting,obito has to go tangible to touch him anyway,and his deva attacks are much faster than pain as well.

Also while in the chamelion,he showed the ability to summon other animals,he could use them to distract jiraiya while he attacks from behind,infact the chamelion itself could also ram obito,it had enough strength to bind kcm naruto with it's tail.

 

[Scryed]

obito countering an ST with intangibility wont happen for 3 reasons
- ST happens practically instantly,kamui isnt an autonatic move,obito has to actually see the attack coming before he can use his kamui. There is no way he can see an ST coming as its effects are basically instant

- he wont know where to make intangible,he dosent know where nagato will aim,it may be his head,his body,his leg etc. Intangibility means warping parts of your body,but ST isnt something like a projectile attack,you cant see it coming,so how would he know which parts to warp and which parts to keep?,even if he can somehow see ST coming,he wont know where it is coming too

- ST can be used affect the whole body,in which case it is useless to actually use intangibility as it will hit regardless and even have a greater impact as the body mass to suck up the blow is reduced. Nagato has intel on kamui,so he will most likely use this one too

so basically,obito cant react to it,cant tell where to make intangible,and cant go intangible to full body attack.

Kabuto was controlling nagato then,he had no idea

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completely unaffecting asura there.

His asura paths abilities can be activated instantly,if obito gets close,he can have 6 arms waiting,obito has to go tangible to touch him anyway,and his deva attacks are much faster than pain as well.

Also while in the chamelion,he showed the ability to summon other animals,he could use them to distract jiraiya while he attacks from behind,infact the chamelion itself could also ram obito,it had enough strength to bind kcm naruto with it's tail.

I doubt Obito's "intangibility" works that way.

Let's go.back to the Obito vs Mist Ninja fight towards the end. As I recall, Obito tried to touch Rin's face when she was lying in the ground. To his surprise, his hand went right through her. He ended up having to deactivate his Kamui to be able to touch her.


It's more like his intangibility is like a switch he has to turn on and off. Turns it on to avoid an attack. Then turns it off so he can counterattack (although he'll be "solid" during this).



If Shinra Tensei does work against Kamui, it'd be for this reason:

Kakashi explained that Obito doesn't really go intangible. It appears that way since the parts of his body that overlap with something else are what's sent to the other dimension. So when he activates it, he's still in the "earth" dimension but if someone were to grab a ball and place it were his head should be, his head will no longer be there, it would be floating in the Kamui dimension.

Even when Naruto shot a TBB at him, his entire body was transported into the other dimension. It was no longer existing in the real world since something else was taking up the space where his body was located.


Now let's look at Shinra Tensei. ST is nothing but gravity. It's not something that could overlap with Obito's body. In other words, it might be possible that ST would actually be able to repel Obito while his Kamui is active but the only things that would phase through Obito would be the debris that will be flying towards him since the debris is something that could overlap with parts of his body.

Since if he could actually "phase" through gravity then that would mean his entire body will dissapear into the Kamui dimension everytime Nagato uses ST.

 

[ARGUS]

obito countering an ST with intangibility wont happen for 3 reasons
- ST happens practically instantly,kamui isnt an autonatic move,obito has to actually see the attack coming before he can use his kamui. There is no way he can see an ST coming as its effects are basically instant

ST happening quickly doesnt matter, since obito can pretend to attack Nagato, and trick him into using ST, and once the interval occurs, he simply warps him,
Obito would know that apart from ST, none of nagatos jutsus are faster than a kamui warp, therefore he can eventually see it coming, and he is certainly durable enough to tank more than one ST

- he wont know where to make intangible,he dosent know where nagato will aim,it may be his head,his body,his leg etc. Intangibility means warping parts of your body,but ST isnt something like a projectile attack,you cant see it coming,so how would he know which parts to warp and which parts to keep?,even if he can somehow see ST coming,he wont know where it is coming too

He can just make his whole body intangible, by sending it all on the kamui dimension,
therefore he doesnt have to worry about which parts to send to kamui, and can then phase through the ST with ease

- ST can be used affect the whole body,in which case it is useless to actually use intangibility as it will hit regardless and even have a greater impact as the body mass to suck up the blow is reduced. Nagato has intel on kamui,so he will most likely use this one too

Like i said, Obito can make his whole body intangible, and can ''pretend'' to attack nagato, which can force nagato into using ST, and once the interval occurs, he can warp nagato off,

so basically,obito cant react to it,cant tell where to make intangible,and cant go intangible to full body attack.

He can simply make his whole body intangbile, he doesnt have to worry about the parts,
and he can also wait for nagato to use ST, and warp him during his CD

Kabuto was controlling nagato then,he had no idea

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completely unaffecting asura there.

Thats BT, its a different technique, where deva focused his force right on Kakashi,
ST is just a repulsive force that involves the user being the epicentre
however i dont see why you brought that up since that still doesnt help nagato here,

His asura paths abilities can be activated instantly,if obito gets close,he can have 6 arms waiting,obito has to go tangible to touch him anyway,and his deva attacks are much faster than pain as well.

Lol, no, asura path techniques are no where near instant, they are mere missiles, and whether ST is instant or not, Obito can still use his long range kamui during his cool down which renders the shurado armor useless, and if obito uses his close range kamui, even then his warp would be successful if nagato is on cool down since the kamui warps attacks are much faster than shurado

Also while in the chamelion,he showed the ability to summon other animals,he could use them to distract jiraiya while he attacks from behind,infact the chamelion itself could also ram obito,it had enough strength to bind kcm naruto with it's tail.

Nagato still has to become visible in-order to attack, therefore it leaves chameleon open,
the chameleon is not doing shit, neither are his summons, when BM naruto, kakashi, guy and killer bee (each of them being much faster than the summons) failed to land effective blows on obito, (who only had one kamui eye),

 

[moihican]

I doubt Obito's "intangibility" works that way.

Let's go.back to the Obito vs Mist Ninja fight towards the end. As I recall, Obito tried to touch Rin's face when she was lying in the ground. To his surprise, his hand went right through her. He ended up having to deactivate his Kamui to be able to touch her.

maybe he was still inexperienced with kamui back then to know that he couldnt touch anything while using it,but your theory makes sense. It may work like izanagi,when it is on it stays on for five minutes until it is turned of.
However my point still stands he cant warp his entire body instantly,and ST is faster than a full body warp,so he will still get hit,your st theory makes sense too.

Obito would know that apart from ST, none of nagatos jutsus are faster than a kamui warp, therefore he can eventually see it coming, and he is certainly durable enough to tank more than one ST


He can just make his whole body intangible, by sending it all on the kamui dimension,
therefore he doesnt have to worry about which parts to send to kamui, and can then phase through the ST with ease


Like i said, Obito can make his whole body intangible, and can ''pretend'' to attack nagato, which can force nagato into using ST, and once the interval occurs, he can warp nagato off,


He can simply make his whole body intangbile, he doesnt have to worry about the parts,
and he can also wait for nagato to use ST, and warp him during his CD


Thats BT, its a different technique, where deva focused his force right on Kakashi,
ST is just a repulsive force that involves the user being the epicentre
however i dont see why you brought that up since that still doesnt help nagato here,


Lol, no, asura path techniques are no where near instant, they are mere missiles, and whether ST is instant or not, Obito can still use his long range kamui during his cool down which renders the shurado armor useless, and if obito uses his close range kamui, even then his warp would be successful if nagato is on cool down since the kamui warps attacks are much faster than shurado


Nagato still has to become visible in-order to attack, therefore it leaves chameleon open,
the chameleon is not doing shit, neither are his summons, when BM naruto, kakashi, guy and killer bee (each of them being much faster than the summons) failed to land effective blows on obito, (who only had one kamui eye),[/FONT]

obito warping his entire body means he is teleporting himself to his dimesnion which is slower than teleporting parts of his body. He cant do a full body intangibility,either he does a partal body warp or he teleports his whole body. Also lets just say he does a full body warp and becomes intangible.when that happens his chakra signature vanishes,meaning nagato knows he isnt there at all,which makes the trick useless. Once again he wont know when nagato hits him.



Like i said,he cant tell when an ST is coming to actually start phasing,by the time he realizes ST is used he is already hit. Full body kamui isnt possible unless he is teleporting when naruto shot a bijudama at him he had to warp his entire body which resulted in sending him to kamui land.

Nagato also knows about ST being his only way to counter kamui,so he wont just waste it,he has other moves to attack obito with while at a distance,such as asura missiles,and the chakra cannon blast whose aoe is much greater than what shurado used against konoha,meanining that the effect will also affect obito's entire body,only using ST if obito gets too close for comfort.

With rain tiger at will tech, wherehe can use contact type sensing through rainfall,the intangible parts would not be touched by the rain allowing nagato to easily know if obito is using kamui or not and on which parts. Deva could make STs strong enough to one shot the gama trio whil weakened,obito isnt taking one from a healthy nagato.

ST and BT are the same principle,both are gravitational attacks,gravity cant be blocked by an obstacle. If he can attract you under a circumstance,he can repel you under the same circumstance. Both use him s the epicentre.
That shows nagato can fire a bt/st on obito while inside the chamelion unlike how kabuto used him.

I was talking about the extra arms that he brought out against killer bee. Obito has to touch him to warp him,if obito does managge to take advantgage of a MUCH SHORTER cool down time,nagato has 6 hands to attack him,forcing him to go intangible again. Nagato can also fly,removing problems of obito sneaking up on him.

You are using abc logic,,konan did more damage then they all di,that dosent make her superior. Like i said kamui is NOT automatic,how can you warp from an attack you cant see or perceive?,while he is busy dodging the other animals,the chamelion can snaek up behind him,he wont react because he dosent know it is there.