DMS Obito vs hashirama

[NarutoX28]

Rikudo chakra doesn't speed up warping time lmao and that's obvious the only thing that speeds up the warping time is DMS alone and that was confirmed here[

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]. It will time him out? No it won't since he wouldn't need to be intangible for 5 mins straight when he can warp out of the pollen range or use his giant Kunai to cut down the branches.

Also Hashirama is sniped before he can even weave a hand sign.

I never stated this, I stated that his increased reaction speed enabled him to react to Kaguya's portal with impeccable timing whereas Rikudou's chakra enabled him to accumulate greater chakra with ease, enabling him to activate Kamui earlier as well. Logistically, Kakashi w/o Rikudou's chakra wouldn't perform a high-end feat because even with DMS, he's still far below that caliber.

You're correct, there's likely a greater time-limit, but attempting to blaze through the entire forest will leave him susceptible to Shinsuusenju and he's still open to reinforcing his Flower Tree World with even more Mokuton regardless.

 

[TRE MERCER]

I never stated this, I stated that his increased reaction speed enabled him to react to Kaguya's portal with impeccable timing whereas Rikudou's chakra enabled him to accumulate greater chakra with ease, enabling him to activate Kamui earlier as well. Logistically, Kakashi w/o Rikudou's chakra wouldn't perform a high-end feat because even with DMS, he's still far below that caliber.

You're correct, there's likely a greater time-limit, but attempting to blaze through the entire forest will leave him susceptible to Shinsuusenju and he's still open to reinforcing his Flower Tree World with even more Mokuton regardless.

No he wouldn't be far below that calibur. Also chopping the forest down wouldn't leave him susceptible to anything since he can stay intangible while doing this further more Hashirama doesn't have the speed to blitz Obito in the first place.

How is Hashirama not getting sniped from the start? Oh wait he is. He isn't getting flower tree world out nor is he getting clones out. Kakashi managed to snipe Gedo Mazo arm off before it could be summoned back that alone should tell you that Hashirama isn't fast enough to not get sniped from the start.

 

[ARGUS]

Hashirama mid diffs

-- kamui warp gets sensed and mokuton blocks his LoS

-- PS gets pinned down and busted by SS. 4 kamui shuriken are not doing shit to the other 996 arms that will continuously punch it down

-- once PS is busted, FTW one shots

 

[NarutoX28]

No he wouldn't be far below that calibur. Also chopping the forest down wouldn't leave him susceptible to anything since he can stay intangible while doing this further more Hashirama doesn't have the speed to blitz Obito in the first place.

How is Hashirama not getting sniped from the start? Oh wait he is. He isn't getting flower tree world out nor is he getting clones out. Kakashi managed to snipe Gedo Mazo arm off before it could be summoned back that alone should tell you that Hashirama isn't fast enough to not get sniped from the start.

Yes he should. The boost Kakashi obtained was so staggering that he managed to manifest a Perfect Susano'o that dwarfs Madara's and even Kakashi confirmed that Rikudou's chakra augmented the power of his eyes substantially. Without it, he has nothing against Hashirama other than Double Kamui which could barely warp away a Gudoudama which 5G Gai outmaneuvered.

Obito has to solidify in order to attack, this is consistently illustrated in the manga and has never been contradicted outside of one inconsistency.

Madara didn't attempt to summon the Gedo Mazo until its arm was detached given that Kuchiyose is instantaneous and Kamui isn't. It's still not a calculable feat given that Madara's instigation of the jutsu is equivocal, so I wouldn't use this as concrete evidence. That said, as long as Hashirama doesn't get sniped, then Flower Tree World kills him regardless.

 

[KidGamer65]

Pollen isn't a gas thus is fazed right through Obito.

Lmao you make no sense. He slips through things when it touches his body. Pollen is too small for him to become intangible and be unaffected. FTW is used, he breathes in the pollen and Hashirama one shots him. Or he hides with Kamui for 5 minutes and then gets killed after his limit is up.

 

[NarutoX28]

Lmao you make no sense. He slips through things when it touches his body. Pollen is too small for him to become intangible and be unaffected. FTW is used, he breathes in the pollen and Hashirama one shots him. Or he hides with Kamui for 5 minutes and then gets killed after his limit is up.

Wow, I actually forgot about this.

Then yeah, Flower Tree World negs if it hits him.

 

[Oblivionx]

Wow, I actually forgot about this.

Then yeah, Flower Tree World negs if it hits him.

can't he just kamui himself and pop out somewhere out of it's range or close to hashirama like he did against minato, sniping hashirama from behind. Heck creating that many mokuton constructs that hashirama himself can't see obito plays in obito's favor as it will give him the opening to warp behind hashirama and warp him. Also no mokuton construct hashirama has is as fast as kamui warp. Using 5g gai's example is also not good as bee was evading god tree's branches fine and we all know by logic hashirama's mokuton can't be faster than god tree's. Thus 5g gai is faster than hashirama's mokuton as well.

 

[NarutoX28]

can't he just kamui himself and pop out somewhere out of it's range or close to hashirama like he did against minato, sniping hashirama from behind. Heck creating that many mokuton constructs that hashirama himself can't see obito plays in obito's favor as it will give him the opening to warp behind hashirama and warp him. Also no mokuton construct hashirama has is as fast as kamui warp. Using 5g gai's example is also not good as bee was evading god tree's branches fine and we all know by logic hashirama's mokuton can't be faster than god tree's. Thus 5g gai is faster than hashirama's mokuton as well.

Of course the 5G Gai example is good. 5G Gai can't speed-blitz Hashirama, so I wouldn't expect Double Kamui without Rikudou's chakra to accomplish such a feat either.

I'll admit, that's plausible, but SM Hashirama simply senses his attempt regardless and has very obscure bunshin feints that can confuse Obito in case Obito instigates such a strategy.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Yes he should. The boost Kakashi obtained was so staggering that he managed to manifest a Perfect Susano'o that dwarfs Madara's and even Kakashi confirmed that Rikudou's chakra augmented the power of his eyes substantially. Without it, he has nothing against Hashirama other than Double Kamui which could barely warp away a Gudoudama which 5G Gai outmaneuvered.

That Dwafs Madara's? Lol not even. Kakashi inside his PS Diamond[

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]. Madara inside his PS diamond[

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]. It's clear which one is bigger. You have no argument here you just complaining. How did it barely warp away a GD? Obito was gone before the GD even got anywhere near Kakashi seeing as Gai had enough time to save him.

Obito has to solidify in order to attack, this is consistently illustrated in the manga and has never been contradicted outside of one inconsistency.

Obito doesn't have to solidify when he has double Kamui. He used his left eye to stay intangible and he uses his right eye to use sniping kamui since all he needs to do is see his target thus he can stay intangible while sniping. Hashirama can't touch him.

Madara didn't attempt to summon the Gedo Mazo until its arm was detached given that Kuchiyose is instantaneous and Kamui isn't. It's still not a calculable feat given that Madara's instigation of the jutsu is equivocal, so I wouldn't use this as concrete evidence. That said, as long as Hashirama doesn't get sniped, then Flower Tree World kills him regardless.

Manga doesn't lie[

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]-[

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]. Kamui process started and Gedo Mazo was summoned and when he appeared he was missing an arm. Hashirama gets his head sniped the moment the battle starts.

Lmao you make no sense. He slips through things when it touches his body. Pollen is too small for him to become intangible and be unaffected. FTW is used, he breathes in the pollen and Hashirama one shots him. Or he hides with Kamui for 5 minutes and then gets killed after his limit is up.

Pollen is to small lool. So i guess C4 nano bombs can one shots Obito since there about as small as cells. Also there is a point that ANYTHING that overlaps with Obito Kamui body is fazed through i don't recall a size limiter mentioned so like i said before the pollen is fazed right through thus rendered useless. He won't need to stay intangible for 5mins straight when he can protect himself via uchiha barrier[

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]. Not to mention giant shurikens decimates the flower tree world. Or he could use his giant Katon to make to burn the pollen out faster. How is Hashirama weaving any hand signs before he sniped in the first place? Ill wait....

 

[KidGamer65]

Pollen is to small lool. So i guess C4 nano bombs can one shots Obito since there about as small as cells. Also there is a point that ANYTHING that overlaps with Obito Kamui body is fazed through i don't recall a size limiter mentioned so like i said before the pollen is fazed right through thus rendered useless. He won't need to stay intangible for 5mins straight when he can protect himself via uchiha barrier[

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]. Not to mention giant shurikens decimates the flower tree world. Or he could use his giant Katon to make to burn the pollen out faster. How is Hashirama weaving any hand signs before he sniped in the first place? Ill wait....

Lmao can you stop? The parts of Obito's body that overlap with objects is what is sent to the other side. Thus the pollen will make where it hits him go to the other side. Go read up on how Kamui works before senselessly wanking it. The pollen wont make him slip completely into the other dimension as its not large enough to make his entire upper body or head go to the other side. Uchiha barrier is a pretty bad strategy considering he'd have to stay inside it at all times in order to survive, not to mention Hashirama has the means to easily obliterate it. Katon is an even dumber strategy since you need to inhale first. :lol

-Giant Shuriken do nothing nor can he form enough to take out all the flowers.
-Kamui doesn't snipe a damn thing. People slower than Hashirama have reacted to Kamui. Kamui also has a build up. The feat you keep wanking isn't even a feat for Kamui as the Mazo teleported away after Kamui was used, not the other way around. If Obito tries Kamui then Hashirama reacts and blocks with Mokuton then Obito gets one shotted by the flower world.

Don't bother replying if you are going to make the same tired arguments over and over and over again.

 

[Oblivionx]

Of course the 5G Gai example is good. 5G Gai can't speed-blitz Hashirama, so I wouldn't expect Double Kamui without Rikudou's chakra to accomplish such a feat either.

I'll admit, that's plausible, but SM Hashirama simply senses his attempt regardless and has very obscure bunshin feints that can confuse Obito in case Obito instigates such a strategy.

Yes with intel hashirama can form clones at the start of battle. That is his only chance. But obito has hashirama's cells. Won't that let obito know the real one? But without intel obito wins anyways, right? if he doesn't have clones out already then he isn't reacting to obito's warp. Gai can't blitz hashirama because he will get overwhelmed by mokuton constructs. Hashirama can't handle 5th gate in hand to hand combat or in close range. So if obito snipes real hashirama, he is done for. Hashirama has no feats of fighting any speedster so am just giving him the benefit of the doubt. He fought jubito and didn't even know what happened. Didn't fight any other speedster.
Also as much advantage 5th gate feat give to hashirama, it also destroys his firepower. That means hashirama's attacks are slow. Gaara managed to lift kages up before FTW could form. And gaara is slower than obito. That makes it easy for obito to evade all attacks from hashirama.

 

[sayian]

> No rikudou chakra
> No hashi cell
= Featless dms obito.

sagemode hashi stomps

 

[sayian]

Hashirama mid diffs

-- kamui warp gets sensed and mokuton blocks his LoS

-- PS gets pinned down and busted by SS. 4 kamui shuriken are not doing shit to the other 996 arms that will continuously punch it down

-- once PS is busted, FTW one shots

Thank you. the space/time wank is ridiculous on this forum.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Lmao can you stop? The parts of Obito's body that overlap with objects is what is sent to the other side. Thus the pollen will make where it hits him go to the other side. Go read up on how Kamui works before senselessly wanking it. The pollen wont make him slip completely into the other dimension as its not large enough to make his entire upper body or head go to the other side. Uchiha barrier is a pretty bad strategy considering he'd have to stay inside it at all times in order to survive, not to mention Hashirama has the means to easily obliterate it. Katon is an even dumber strategy since you need to inhale first. :lol

Size doesn't matter when anything that overlaps with him is fazed through you keep mentioning the pollen size as if that matters. What is Hashirama going to take the barrier down with im curious? Inhale first? How desperate are you going to get you realize that the Gokage was in the flower tree world for atleast 30 secs before they passed out[

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]-[

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]. Which is more than enough time to get his katon off.

-Giant Shuriken do nothing nor can he form enough to take out all the flowers.
-Kamui doesn't snipe a damn thing. People slower than Hashirama have reacted to Kamui. Kamui also has a build up. The feat you keep wanking isn't even a feat for Kamui as the Mazo teleported away after Kamui was used, not the other way around. If Obito tries Kamui then Hashirama reacts and blocks with Mokuton then Obito gets one shotted by the flower world.

Actually he can. [

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]-[

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]. Obito never ran out of giant shurikens during the war. Who reacted to kamui snipe? Only one person and that was Obito and it was only because Kakashi was having problems. Hashirama gets sniped as soon as the battle starts nuff said.
Don't bother replying if you are going to make the same tired arguments over and over and over again.[/QUOTE]

 

[KidGamer65]

Size doesn't matter when anything that overlaps with him is fazed through you keep mentioning the pollen size as if that matters. What is Hashirama going to take the barrier down with im curious? Inhale first? How desperate are you going to get you realize that the Gokage was in the flower tree world for atleast 30 secs before they passed out[

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]-[

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]. Which is more than enough time to get his katon off.


Actually he can. [

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]-[

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]. Obito never ran out of giant shurikens during the war. Who reacted to kamui snipe? Only one person and that was Obito and it was only because Kakashi was having problems. Hashirama gets sniped as soon as the battle starts nuff said.
Don't bother replying if you are going to make the same tired arguments over and over and over again.

[/QUOTE]

You keep repeating the same thing I already addressed without providing new info. Lmao. You fanboys kill me. Are you this desperate to get me to agree with you? Inhaling the pollen puts you to sleep. The Gokage weren't in the flower world for 30 seconds. The moment they fell in and Madara used his Katon they got knocked out. Obito only makes it worse on himself by forcibly inhaling to produce Katon. How hard is this to understand? Lmao. Jukai Kotan, Mokujin or anything above that level or on par rapes his featless barrier.

-Obito never running out of Shuriken is irrelevant to the fact that them being able to cut apart the forest is based on nothing but nonsense. Then we have the fact that never running out is based on nothing. Him having enough is based on nothing just like everything you type in your posts. Baseless.
-Kamui doesn't have the speed feats to blitz someone who can sense it's build up and is faster or on the same speed tier as people who have reacted to it and similar techniques (Kakashi, Obito, BM Naruto)

 

[Superior Jinchuriki]

Does Obito have the gunbai in this fight???

 

[TRE MERCER]

You keep repeating the same thing I already addressed without providing new info. Lmao. You fanboys kill me. Are you this desperate to get me to agree with you? Inhaling the pollen puts you to sleep. The Gokage weren't in the flower world for 30 seconds. The moment they fell in and Madara used his Katon they got knocked out. Obito only makes it worse on himself by forcibly inhaling to produce Katon. How hard is this to understand? Lmao. Jukai Kotan, Mokujin or anything above that level or on par rapes his featless barrier.

Lol the Gokage weren't in the flower tree world? If that's not being inside the flower tree world then Obito simply warps himself above the FTR and uses his Katon while he's in the air and burn the entire thing out from above.

-Obito never running out of Shuriken is irrelevant to the fact that them being able to cut apart the forest is based on nothing but nonsense. Then we have the fact that never running out is based on nothing. Him having enough is based on nothing just like everything you type in your posts. Baseless.
-Kamui doesn't have the speed feats to blitz someone who can sense it's build up and is faster or on the same speed tier as people who have reacted to it and similar techniques (Kakashi, Obito, BM Naruto)

The fact that they cut off Killer bee tails while in full BM means they rip right through Mokuton. Him not running out means he'll have enough to clean out the forest and if not he'll just burn it out simple. So kamui doesn't have the speed to snipe someone who can sense the build up? Lol so if Tsunade could sense she could evade Kamui as well i assume? Kamui build up is non-existent in actual time. Kakashi was in his 3tomoe state when Sasuke fired these arrows[

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]. Kakashi was about 20 feet away from Sasuke[

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]. He hand time to snipe 2 arrows. Kamui build up time is not there bruh sorry but Hashirama gets sniped.

When was kamui sniped used on Kakashi ill wait? When was kamui sniped used on BM Naruto ill wait? Like i said before Obito reacted to kamui because Kakashi was warping a huge target(Before you try and deny this answer me this how come he didn't stop Naruto clone from getting sent to the kamui dimension instead he opted to try and destroy the clone before Kakashi could snipe it.) So i ask you unless you can prove Hashirama can stop himself from being sniped from the start your argument hold no weight.

 

[NarutoX28]

That Dwafs Madara's? Lol not even. Kakashi inside his PS Diamond[

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]. Madara inside his PS diamond[

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]. It's clear which one is bigger. You have no argument here you just complaining. How did it barely warp away a GD? Obito was gone before the GD even got anywhere near Kakashi seeing as Gai had enough time to save him.

Kishimoto doesn't particularly care about drawing Perfect Susano'os diamond to scale. There are numerous instances that displayed discrepancies in the size itself.

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. It's evident that being fixated on something as trivial as this is a frivolous matter. If Kakashi's sentiment is anything to go by, we can infer that Kakashi's Susano'o is augmented by Rikudou's chakra considerably which instantly places it above Madara's PS.

Not convinced? Well, simplicity's sake, I'll simply state that they're equals, but this is aside from the point anyways. DMS Kakashi w/ Rikudou's chakra is in a completely different league. MS Kakashi's Double Kamui narrowly out sped Madara's Gudoudama which was depicted as subpar among top tiers (within the War Arc) given that 5th Gate Gai and 6th Gate Lee outmaneuvered one. Juubidara had DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudou's chakra on the ropes while DMS Kakashi w/ Rikudou's chakra in contrast, performed on a level that had Kaguya on the ropes. It's rather explicit that there's an astronomical difference and unlike DMS Kakashi w/ Rikudou's chakra, he doesn't have Perfect Susano'o nor the ability to infuse Kamui with his Susano'os weapons. He is considerably weaker and his best bet is DMS Kamui which is slower due to reduced reaction time and chakra control.

If he attempts to absorb Hashirama, he simply senses it and obfuscates his location with a bunshin feint. Then initiates Sage Mode and literally slaughters him. The only way Obito has a chance is through Rikudou's chakra.

Obito doesn't have to solidify when he has double Kamui. He used his left eye to stay intangible and he uses his right eye to use sniping kamui since all he needs to do is see his target thus he can stay intangible while sniping. Hashirama can't touch him.

No, he has to solidify in order to attack. This has always remained consistent (for the most part), so Kakashi can't cleave through Flower Tree World without solidifying which leaves him vulnerable. This is even assuming he can phase through the pollen. The only reason DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudou's chakra would succumb to the pollen immediately is because he doesn't have adequate firepower via Perfect Susano'o in order to slice through it.

Manga doesn't lie[

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]-[

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]. Kamui process started and Gedo Mazo was summoned and when he appeared he was missing an arm. Hashirama gets his head sniped the moment the battle starts.

Yes, it's an incalculable feat because we have no idea when Madara instigated Kuchiyose, all we know is that from a logical standpoint, Kuchiyose was subsequently initiated because Kuchiyose is instantaneous while Kamui is not. Since you didn't translate this feat and enunciated how this feat is faster than Hashirama's reactions, then he simply senses the chakra-build up and counters with a clone as I mentioned previously.

 

[PhantomSage]

Mokuton to block LOS.
Kajukai Korin to bypass phasing. Hashirama wins this.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Kishimoto doesn't particularly care about drawing Perfect Susano'os diamond to scale. There are numerous instances that displayed discrepancies in the size itself.

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. It's evident that being fixated on something as trivial as this is a frivolous matter. If Kakashi's sentiment is anything to go by, we can infer that Kakashi's Susano'o is augmented by Rikudou's chakra considerably which instantly places it above Madara's PS.

In all of those scans they look the same size which is irrelevant to my main argument soo ehhh.

Not convinced? Well, simplicity's sake, I'll simply state that they're equals, but this is aside from the point anyways. DMS Kakashi w/ Rikudou's chakra is in a completely different league. MS Kakashi's Double Kamui narrowly out sped Madara's Gudoudama which was depicted as subpar among top tiers (within the War Arc) given that 5th Gate Gai and 6th Gate Lee outmaneuvered one. Juubidara had DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudou's chakra on the ropes while DMS Kakashi w/ Rikudou's chakra in contrast, performed on a level that had Kaguya on the ropes. It's rather explicit that there's an astronomical difference and unlike DMS Kakashi w/ Rikudou's chakra, he doesn't have Perfect Susano'o nor the ability to infuse Kamui with his Susano'os weapons. He is considerably weaker and his best bet is DMS Kamui which is slower due to reduced reaction time and chakra control.

You keep mentioning DMS Kakashi im not mentioning any of his feats here so stop bringing him up.

If he attempts to absorb Hashirama, he simply senses it and obfuscates his location with a bunshin feint. Then initiates Sage Mode and literally slaughters him. The only way Obito has a chance is through Rikudou's chakra.

Except Hashirama isn't fast enough to weave hand signs and preform clones before he's sniped sorry. Lol in SM he slaughters him? How Obito trolls him until his SM wears off. No version of Hashirama can slaughter no adult version of Obito.

No, he has to solidify in order to attack. This has always remained consistent (for the most part), so Kakashi can't cleave through Flower Tree World without solidifying which leaves him vulnerable. This is even assuming he can phase through the pollen. The only reason DMS Kakashi w/o Rikudou's chakra would succumb to the pollen immediately is because he doesn't have adequate firepower via Perfect Susano'o in order to slice through it.

Except you applying this logic from Obito with one eye Kamui. He has to solify since it's all one jutsu. DMS means he can stay intangible while doing his other kamui feats with his other eye. Obito warps above the FTW and burn it out from above.

Yes, it's an incalculable feat because we have no idea when Madara instigated Kuchiyose, all we know is that from a logical standpoint, Kuchiyose was subsequently initiated because Kuchiyose is instantaneous while Kamui is not. Since you didn't translate this feat and enunciated how this feat is faster than Hashirama's reactions, then he simply senses the chakra-build up and counters with a clone as I mentioned previously.

Please show me Hashirama supreme reaction feats that lets him react to DMS Kamui snipe? Ill wait...