DMS Kabuto vs MS Obito

TRE MERCER

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Not only do you not have manga evidence of that occurring, since his gloves were perfectly fine, but feats already outright showed Sakon working through Kiba's clothing/jacket. So nope, canon shows body seeping works the moment contact is made so its nigh instant.

@Bold nope, thats ignoring manga. It shut down Susanoo. Them using Genjutsu just mean Genjutsu is usable not Ninjutsu.
Fair point but if Kabuto but how is he going to get Sakon out in time? Mind you Obito warped in and out of here within the time of the flashing lighting.( ). Even if he is caught fusion his cells it means nothing when Obito can simply warp his body to the kamui dimension then preform Izanagi and kill himself thus Sakon dies Obito is then reappears with a Kabutoless body thus Kabuto is dead and has lost the battle. Erm completely different things.

1- Susanoo is a manifestation of chakra that has to be constantly maintained therefore once there chakra is interrupted the control over Susanoo is as well which is the reason it fell down.

2- Just like genjutsu Kamui doesn't need to be constantly focused or yielded up because it's not a chaka manifestastion like Susanoo.

He won't be caught in genjutsu anyways as i've explained this to that fodder KG.

Genjutsu disrupts the chakra in a user how is he going to disrupt the chakra of someone in another dimension? Obito can make his entire body intangible as well.( )-( ). which means genjutsu won't work not only is it slow but Kabuto have to push Tayuya out of his gut and then proceed to blow on the flute in that time he'll already be warped. BOLD is wrong Obito has control over his Kamui as shown in the battle with Torune and Fu. He can turn it on and off and keep it on at will. Same thing goes for when he tried to touch Rin before he had experience with Kamui.[
 

TRE MERCER

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1. Obito won't be in another dimension.
2. He can't make his whole body tangible unless something is overlapping his whole body. Kakashi's explanation provides evidence, and the databook for Kamui states that it's an unconscious process. So there goes any notion of him having control of it.
3. If Obito goes straight for a warp, Kabuto simply senses him and retaliates in a way that forces Obito to phase through his attack.
1-Didn't the scan i post already show this Obito can be in the kamui dimension while his body still looks present in the real world shown . . and . .

2- WRONG When Obito first reached for Rin his hand went through her face.( ). Obito then realizes Kamui is still activated thus he turs it off.( ). If Kamui really activated on it's own how would Obito be able to touch anything or anyone for that matters? The fact that he can touch a selective ground of people simply means he controls it. This isn't like Gaara sand which happenes automatic when he had Shukaku inside off him. Gaara sand which did happen automatically even blocked it's self from him and could not decipher from friend or foe Obito has shown that he can do just that with Kamui thus he can control his intangibility. PLEASE DO NOT USE THE DB TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS IT HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG AND FLAWED COUNTLESS TIMES.

3- Minato did the same thing and needed ftg to get out of that scrimmage Kabuto doesn't have ftg nor does he have the striking speed of Minato thus he's a goner.

What sort of counter does Obito have for Manda II :rolleyes:
Genjutsu if that doesn't work he'll have to outlast it via summoning running out of time.
LOL Shikamaru could use shadow possession jutsu during the genjutsu of course Obito can use Kamui. It only Paralyzes the body.
Thank you......
 
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Brother Numpsay

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Fair point but if Kabuto but how is he going to get Sakon out in time? Mind you Obito warped in and out of here within the time of the flashing lighting.( ). Even if he is caught fusion his cells it means nothing when Obito can simply warp his body to the kamui dimension then preform Izanagi and kill himself thus Sakon dies Obito is then reappears with a Kabutoless body thus Kabuto is dead and has lost the battle. Erm completely different things.


Instant > Light. Plus the fact that saving Sasuke technically counts as off screen saved. Unless you want to believe that Konan attack speed, guiding the paper bomb is faster[ ][ ].

@Bold Again warping his body isn't going to faster then Kabuto's killing option, so he isn't warping to his dimension before getting killed. No evidence that reappearing kills Kabuto (even though I said Sakon is the one splitting and entering Obito). Sakon either comes back or Kabuto makes anything one just like he did after Oral Rebirth.

1- Susanoo is a manifestation of chakra that has to be constantly maintained therefore once there chakra is interrupted the control over Susanoo is as well which is the reason it fell down.
Irrelevant. Doesnt change how the Sound Genjutsu works.

2- Just like genjutsu Kamui doesn't need to be constantly focused or yielded up because it's not a chaka manifestastion like Susanoo.
Nope Genjutsu is nothing like Kamui. Kamui = ninjutsu. Plus I dont get how you got to that conclusion that Kamui doesn't need constantly focused. Thats saying Kamui doesnt have an on and off switch and doesn't have a time limit on how long it can be maintain...

He won't be caught in genjutsu anyways as i've explained this to that fodder KG.
I dont know what argument you can possibly make here. The only argument is to say Kamui outlast the sound effect. Which I already addressed.
 

KidGamer65

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1-Didn't the scan i post already show this Obito can be in the kamui dimension while his body still looks present in the real world shown . . and . .

2- WRONG When Obito first reached for Rin his hand went through her face.( ). Obito then realizes Kamui is still activated thus he turs it off.( ). If Kamui really activated on it's own how would Obito be able to touch anything or anyone for that matters? The fact that he can touch a selective ground of people simply means he controls it. This isn't like Gaara sand which happenes automatic when he had Shukaku inside off him. Gaara sand which did happen automatically even blocked it's self from him and could not decipher from friend or foe Obito has shown that he can do just that with Kamui thus he can control his intangibility. PLEASE DO NOT USE THE DB TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS IT HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG AND FLAWED COUNTLESS TIMES.

3- Minato did the same thing and needed ftg to get out of that scrimmage Kabuto doesn't have ftg nor does he have the striking speed of Minato thus he's a goner.



Genjutsu if that doesn't work he'll have to outlast it via summoning running out of time.

Thank you......
1. Wrong. In all those scans something is overlapping the part Obito has sent to the other dimension.

2. That's because when something overlaps with his body, Kamui moves it to the other dimension. I cannot explain it any simpler than this. When Kamui is "on", he unconsciously slips through things by sending what is being overlapped to the other dimension. When he turned it off, he was able to touch Rin. Your example proves my point, that Kamui is automatic. Nice try though.

3. Wrong. When Kamui as a whole is on, Obito slips through things. The only thing that you are right about is that he controls when his body parts are moved, but he doesn't control the automatic aspect of it. To make it as simple as I possibly can, let's call intangibility a "mode" that Obito has control over. When his "mode" is ON, he slips through things unconsciously. When his mode is OFF, he doesn't.

4. Irrelevant. Nothing in the Manga proves this wrong, so I have no reason to distrust the DB here. Expected counter from you though.


5. Minato tried attacking with a Kunai slash when he was unaware of Obito's abilities. Kabuto has moves of all ranges and moves with enough AoE that Obito would be forced to retreat. Terrible comparison.
 

TRE MERCER

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Instant > Light. Plus the fact that saving Sasuke technically counts as off screen saved. Unless you want to believe that Konan attack speed, guiding the paper bomb is faster[ ][ ].
What does Kabuto have that is instant? Nothing. Doesn't really matter we both know Obito got inside the jinton sphere and warped himself out simple. Obito wasn't trying to warp away from the bombs he was trying to warp them and he says that here.( ). So Konan didn't match his warping speed.

@Bold Again warping his body isn't going to faster then Kabuto's killing option, so he isn't warping to his dimension before getting killed. No evidence that reappearing kills Kabuto (even though I said Sakon is the one splitting and entering Obito). Sakon either comes back or Kabuto makes anything one just like he did after Oral Rebirth.
Kabuto has nothing that can hit Obito before Kamui is getting used here stop with the non-sense. His striking speed was countered by MS itachi.( ). His running speed isn't impressive either when he had to use liquid body and hide behide rocks just to evade a Susanoo arrow.( ). When he couldn't use the rocks to hide behide he was caught simple and plain.( ). Kabuto's speed and reactions by feats aren't even on KM Naruto's level who has sensing just like Kabuto and clones yet he was still no match for Obito in a cqc battle .( ). Please explain what is Kabuto's killing option? Kabuto hasn't shown the ability for the sound 4 in his stomach to branch off without him so this is where Ejblack becomes EjFanfic. Also do you not know how Izanagi works the user gets the ability to decide there fate thus he can decide a different fate in which he didn't get DNA connected via Sakon.

Irrelevant. Doesnt change how the Sound Genjutsu works.
No what is irrelevant is the fact that Shikamaru was able to use shadow possession while being caught in the genjutsu. Not only that Obito using the Kamui wind plus the Juubi size katon should easily be able to negate the sound genjutsu just like how Temari fodderized it.

Nope Genjutsu is nothing like Kamui. Kamui = ninjutsu. Plus I dont get how you got to that conclusion that Kamui doesn't need constantly focused. Thats saying Kamui doesnt have an on and off switch and doesn't have a time limit on how long it can be maintain...
Shikamaru used Ninjutsu while being in this same genjutsu so your point is irrelevant. Kamui does have an on and off switch but once turned on it stays on until the user shuts it off. He activated Kamui when he was fighting the mist Ninja then when he reached for Rin he went through which means the Kamui stays activated once activated so your arguments are stupid and idiotic.



I dont know what argument you can possibly make here. The only argument is to say Kamui outlast the sound effect. Which I already addressed.
No need when he can Negate with bakufū ranbu. Or simply get to and warp Kabuto before he even has time to get Tayuya out of his body and with Kabuto speed and reaction feats this is going to happen. Or he can shoot the giant Katon which will force Kabuto to run and hide thus ruining the genjutsu.

There's way to many counters for the genjutsu argument and what's sad is that this is the heart of your arguments.
 

TRE MERCER

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1. Wrong. In all those scans something is overlapping the part Obito has sent to the other dimension.
Wrong Naruto's hand was only going through Obito's body.( ). In this scan we see Obito getting punched in the face by Kakashi while his face isn't being touched by Naruto.( ). Also we see Obito's eyes looking at Naruto and Kakashi in the very first to panels which means he had his eyes in the Kamui dimension without anything overlapping them clearly. Also even more proof is Naruto can see Obito face taking damage which is the reason he says WHAT!? and there's even SFX which indicate sound effects thus the pounded of Kakashi hand on his face and then in the real world he gets a scuff mark on his head that he didn't even half in the first scan of him being punched.

2. That's because when something overlaps with his body, Kamui moves it to the other dimension. I cannot explain it any simpler than this. When Kamui is "PROVED TO BE IRRELEVANTon", he unconsciously slips through things by sending what is being overlapped to the other dimension. When he turned it off, he was able to touch Rin. Your example proves my point, that Kamui is automatic. Nice try though.

5. Minato tried attacking with a Kunai slash when he was unaware of Obito's abilities. Kabuto has moves of all ranges and moves with enough AoE that Obito would be forced to retreat. Terrible comparison.
Please explain how is he going to be able to even try all of these long range moves with enough aoe. Minato used a Kunai strike because that was the fastest thing he could do at the time and that distance.
 
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Brother Numpsay

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What does Kabuto have that is instant? Nothing. Doesn't really matter we both know Obito got inside the jinton sphere and warped himself out simple. Obito wasn't trying to warp away from the bombs he was trying to warp them and he says that here.( ). So Konan didn't match his warping speed.
Already stated Sakon Parasite works instant the moment physical contact is made[ > ]

@Bold all you need to do is read what happening in that panel instead of sounding like an idiot for basing your rebuttal by a faulty translation[ ].

Kabuto has nothing that can hit Obito before Kamui is getting used here stop with the non-sense. His striking speed was countered by MS itachi.( ). His running speed isn't impressive either when he had to use liquid body and hide behide rocks just to evade a Susanoo arrow.( ). When he couldn't use the rocks to hide behide he was caught simple and plain.( ). Kabuto's speed and reactions by feats aren't even on KM Naruto's level who has sensing just like Kabuto and clones yet he was still no match for Obito in a cqc battle .( ). Please explain what is Kabuto's killing option? Kabuto hasn't shown the ability for the sound 4 in his stomach to branch off without him so this is where Ejblack becomes EjFanfic. . Also do you not know how Izanagi works the user gets the ability to decide there fate thus he can decide a different fate in which he didn't get DNA connected via Sakon.
Honestly not going to waste my time with all of this paragraph. Its horsesh*t. But mainly because you think all of the sudden, my argument claims are based on hitting Obito before he goes intangible. My argument clearly talking about warping/teleporting things.

@Bold: Lol he branched his own body[ ]. And DB states:

Utilising the power of senjutsu, Kabuto is able to freely use the abilities, talents, and kekkei genkai of the shinobi whose DNA he integrates within himself. As a strategic alternative, he can instead channel their collective abilities into mindless clones, respective to each shinobi, that are generated through his naval snake.
Which sakon feats transfers to Kabuto.

@Underline, and that means Sakon dies because?


No what is irrelevant is the fact that Shikamaru was able to use shadow possession while being caught in the genjutsu. Not only that Obito using the Kamui wind plus the Juubi size katon should easily be able to negate the sound genjutsu just like how Temari fodderized it.
Here it goes again. Repeated arguments thats already been shat on. Shikamaru is irrelevant. Not only is it a coincidence that both Yin Release was able to counter the Genjutsu, but the fact that Tayuya's effect =/= SM boost effect. Even IF I were to consider Shikamaru counter: That still leaves no evidence that ninjutsu can be used to break out at any given moment. If you read the fight, you would know Shikimaru's jutsu was put on halt[ ](just like Tayuya says the effects were[ ]) and before the ninjutsu was canceled, Shikimaru took the chance to use his ninjutsu BEFORE it could disappear. Which he then pretended to be stuck the rest of the time.

So if somehow that means Kamui too, would only mean it slowly removes the use of it. But thats not happening. It gets the same treatment as Sussanoo and every other ninjutsu Uchiha brothers couldn't use.

Lol no Katon isnt countering a omni direction genjutsu.

Shikamaru used Ninjutsu while being in this same genjutsu so your point is irrelevant. Kamui does have an on and off switch but once turned on it stays on until the user shuts it off. He activated Kamui when he was fighting the mist Ninja then when he reached for Rin he went through which means the Kamui stays activated once activated so your arguments are stupid and idiotic.
Addressed Genjutsu. Everything else is irrelevant and idiotic point making.


No need when he can Negate with bakufū ranbu. Or simply get to and warp Kabuto before he even has time to get Tayuya out of his body and with Kabuto speed and reaction feats this is going to happen. Or he can shoot the giant Katon which will force Kabuto to run and hide thus ruining the genjutsu.


Addressed. No feats that stops Kabuto when his speed and reaction surpasses Obito by far. Only reason Obito is difficult is because his intangibility is instant.

Manda 2 shield and clones counters Katon. So he can still hide and not ruin the sound.

There's way to many counters for the genjutsu argument and what's sad is that this is the heart of your arguments.
The heart of my arguments is base on jutsus that can only counter Kamui[ ]. So irrelevant point your making.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Because Kakashi wasn't using Kamui on teleporting objects. Or he wasn't able to fool a ms user with Kamui.
?????????????????????????????? I have no idea what point your making here. Im arguing why SM Kabuto is superior in reflexes and speed. You told me how I got to that conclusion.

Obito was tie with Kakashi in their Kamui world fight. Kakashi fail to phyically react to Susanoo arrow, Kabuto didn't. Thus Kabuto has shown superior reflexes.

Kakashi also = to 30% Itachi in CQC. Kabuto = close to full power Itachi in CQC.

Feats and portrayal puts SM Kabuto above Obito in that category.
 

Lord Tywin

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?????????????????????????????? I have no idea what point your making here. Im arguing why SM Kabuto is superior in reflexes and speed. You told me how I got to that conclusion.

Obito was tie with Kakashi in their Kamui world fight. Kakashi fail to phyically react to Susanoo arrow, Kabuto didn't. Thus Kabuto has shown superior reflexes.

Kakashi also = to 30% Itachi in CQC. Kabuto = close to full power Itachi in CQC.

Feats and portrayal puts SM Kabuto above Obito in that category.
1. Obits wanted to lose that fight. For his heart seal
2. You're bringing in a Kakashi that was struggling after one kamui. Then you brought up a Kakashi that had to mold chakra for a while to use Kamui. smh
3. Are you saying Itachi>=dsm Kabuto>Kakashi(with Kamui usage)/Gai/Bee/Naruto>>>>>>Obito=Gai/Naruto/Bee/Kakashi?
 

Brother Numpsay

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1. Obits wanted to lose that fight. For his heart seal
2. You're bringing in a Kakashi that was struggling after one kamui. Then you brought up a Kakashi that had to mold chakra for a while to use Kamui. smh
3. Are you saying Itachi>=dsm Kabuto>Kakashi(with Kamui usage)/Gai/Bee/Naruto>>>>>>Obito=Gai/Naruto/Bee/Kakashi?
1. Madara wanted to lose VOTE to gain Hashirama cells. And Itachi vs Sasuke. Doesnt change the feats displayed when they fought.

2. Lol dont need to proof you wrong concerning Kamui usage since it completely irrelevant. How are you going to tell me to prove something and not stick to the topic?? SMH. You wanted me to prove why Kabuto speed and reaction surpasses Obito. So I am giving feats that are relevant to determine how speed and reaction goes to Kabuto, against Obito.

3. Your confuse by your own reason on what you wanted me to address, smh.
 
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Unorthodox

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Base on Obito's fight without Kamui via vs Kakashi.
Obito literally planned everything that happened there to his favor.

1. Madara wanted to lose VOTE to gain Hashirama cells. And Itachi vs Sasuke. Doesnt change the feats displayed when they fought.
Madara by no means wanted to lose at VOTE he tried everything to kill Hashirama he even thought he won until it was the bushin feint him wanting Hashirama cells does not mean he held back at all he could get the cells if Hashirama was dead or alive so it would not matter.

Itachi was sick furthermore Itachi used amaterasu to chase sasuke instead of using it in its traditional way not once sword totsuka at sasuke did not use Magatama's purposely did not dodge his shuriken jutsu used tsukuyomi just so Sasuke could break it. etc.

You cannot compare those fights why because Obito did not use juubi size katon uchiha kajin etc. we can also assume he even notched his taijutsu down just so Kakashi could keep up. Kabuto ran behind a rock thats no dodging in the open he gets sniped off by a susanoo arrow Itachi had no problem with him in CQC either Kamui is faster than susanoo arrow aswell.



Yeah, Obito has total control over Kamui. DB can be ignored in this case.
This aswell only a fool like kidgamer think Kamui as a tech has a mind of its own

Obito wins this
 

KidGamer65

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Wrong Naruto's hand was only going through Obito's body.( ). In this scan we see Obito getting punched in the face by Kakashi while his face isn't being touched by Naruto.( ). Also we see Obito's eyes looking at Naruto and Kakashi in the very first to panels which means he had his eyes in the Kamui dimension without anything overlapping them clearly. Also even more proof is Naruto can see Obito face taking damage which is the reason he says WHAT!? and there's even SFX which indicate sound effects thus the pounded of Kakashi hand on his face and then in the real world he gets a scuff mark on his head that he didn't even half in the first scan of him being punched.





Please explain how is he going to be able to even try all of these long range moves with enough aoe. Minato used a Kunai strike because that was the fastest thing he could do at the time and that distance.
Lmfao. Don't ignore Manga panels.

-Obito's waist is in the other dimension.



BM Naruto's chakra arm is overlapping.

-The panel you decided to ignore shows Obito sinking lower, thus his head gets covered by the chakra arm and he ends up in the other dimension as shown in the 2nd panel.



Then Obito gets punched in the face, and his head jerks to the right, so he did the same in the real world so he wouldn't be overlapping with Naruto's arm anymore.

Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Kamui
No rank, all ranges, offensive, defensive
Users: Obito Uchiha, Kakashi Hatake

The godly eyes that conquer fate's horizon!! [TN: Epic sentence is epic.]

Coercing into another dimension!!

A dojutsu that transfers objects into the dimension created with the "Mangekyo Sharingan". In proportion to the amount of chakra the user holds, the possibly transferable mass of the target is increased or decreased. A skilled user can also transfer his own body. Furthermore, there's a subtle difference in the powers of the left and right eyes. The left eye hurls distant objects into the dimension by fixating them, the right eye unconsciously makes a body part slip-through by transfering it. Additionally, by having both eyes, "Susanoo" appears and it is possible to apply Kamui's powers to its weapons.

⬆➡ Objects are transfered immediately into the dimension. The distance of the right eye's effect is short. The ability to make the body "slip-through" is the ability of Obito's own right eye.


Translated by Seelentau
Kakashi makes it clear that Obito isn't going transparent. He's actually moving his body parts to the other dimension.



If there were a way for Obito to go "intangible" without something overlapping his body, you'd see missing pieces of his body, because they have LITERALLY been moved to the other dimension.

There is no debate here. Please stop trying. You look silly trying to spit on the Manga AND DB at the same time.


Minato used a Kunai strike because that is the only offensive move he has besides Rasengan. If Obito tries to warp him, Kabuto makes a hand sign for Muki Tensei and the whole surrounding area comes to life and either crushes Obito, or forces him to phase through it, and Kabuto can even make the ground under him move him to a position away from Obito as the rest of the earth attacks him.
 

KidGamer65

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Yeah, Obito has total control over Kamui. DB can be ignored in this case.
So when DB benefits him, he supports it even though he's supposed to ignore it. When DB is saying something that's fact, he ignores it.

:lol. Cannot be taken seriously.


This aswell only a fool like kidgamer think Kamui as a tech has a mind of its own

Obito wins this
unorthodox, don't come at me like your stupid. I'm gonna go with Kakashi's explanation and the databook's explanation over a fan's explanation any day of the week.
 
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